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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
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The Optimist
7/26/2013 3:33 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Wow, this is going to get really ugly really quick, I think.

Bottom line is your Akron's and Cincinnati's really WANT to be in the Big 5 and are at least making a monetary committment to the necessary facilities.  The question for them is: do the Big 5 WANT either one of them?  My guess is Cincy gets in next go round.  They have the Basketball tradition and they have thrown a ton of money Football's way to at least be in the discussion.  Akron, not so sure given their past and current situations. 

As for my dear old OHIO, I have come to the realization we do not have the financial resources and cannot make the monetary committment necessary to make the jump.  We probably go back to 1960 and maybe become the "small college" champs.

Kinda disappointing when you look at how far we've come from the "dark years" in football but that is the reality of the situation.


This is a 20th century outlook on Ohio University. We've accomplished things the last 10 years that make this view obsolete.

We've got better cards in our hands than limiting ourselves to "small college champs."  This isn't Athens vs Cincinnati or Athens vs. Akron. This is Ohio vs. those schools. Past admins failed to properly leverage our name to grow this University. That has changed.

I'm not saying we have the financial resources necessary to compete with the big boys in this new division, but we are certainly not out of it. Our football stadium needs an upgrade... But we are there in hoops and we have other key resources necessary to move up. A passionate student base, a good school, a residential campus and large potential TV markets. Roderick McDavis is positioning us as Ohio, not SE Ohio State of the MAC.

This is not over.

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colobobcat66
7/26/2013 6:43 PM
The Situation wrote:expand_more
I genuinely don't understand the defeatist attitude on here by a lot of you guys. What they are proposing is so functionally disfunctional that it can't work in practice. The return of prohibition or a conversion of the U.S. to the metric system are much more plausible. Really this is just a bunch of baboons in suits fighting over a bananna that was given to them by the zoo keeper.
I liken this situation a little like that of the old Big East. It was obvious that football was controlling where the league was going , and it was only a matter of time before the BB schools had to do something. They did the obvious and split. Likewise, the big FB teams were driving the bus as far as where college football was going. The idea that some tiny college with 800 students can dictate policy to behemoths like the school in Columbus doesnt make a lot of sense. They finally took charge, because they have the power to. The NCAA has to go along or the group, with a few additions, will just leave it. The actions taken will strengthen the idea that major college football is just a minor league training ground for the NFL. The devil may be in the details about how this will end up, but the big guys know they have the upper hand like they never have before.
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colobobcat66
7/26/2013 6:58 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Wow, this is going to get really ugly really quick, I think.

Bottom line is your Akron's and Cincinnati's really WANT to be in the Big 5 and are at least making a monetary committment to the necessary facilities. The question for them is: do the Big 5 WANT either one of them? My guess is Cincy gets in next go round. They have the Basketball tradition and they have thrown a ton of money Football's way to at least be in the discussion. Akron, not so sure given their past and current situations.

As for my dear old OHIO, I have come to the realization we do not have the financial resources and cannot make the monetary committment necessary to make the jump. We probably go back to 1960 and maybe become the "small college" champs.

Kinda disappointing when you look at how far we've come from the "dark years" in football but that is the reality of the situation.


This is a 20th century outlook on Ohio University. We've accomplished things the last 10 years that make this view obsolete.

We've got better cards in our hands than limiting ourselves to "small college champs." This isn't Athens vs Cincinnati or Athens vs. Akron. This is Ohio vs. those schools. Past admins failed to properly leverage our name to grow this University. That has changed.

I'm not saying we have the financial resources necessary to compete with the big boys in this new division, but we are certainly not out of it. Our football stadium needs an upgrade... But we are there in hoops and we have other key resources necessary to move up. A passionate student base, a good school, a residential campus and large potential TV markets. Roderick McDavis is positioning us as Ohio, not SE Ohio State of the MAC.

This is not over.
the problem is that while Ohio is doing better in terms of on field and financial results, we are still just celebrating that we were the first MAC school to ever break $1,000,000 in ticket revenue total in football and basketball. The ceiling seems to be pretty low when it comes to money to push programs further. The students are paying for whatever success we are having. The general population of fans, not at all. It may be a different century, but our finances are still 20th century.
Last Edited: 7/26/2013 6:59:46 PM by colobobcat66
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stout76
7/26/2013 7:04 PM
For all you attorneys out there, just curious but do you see any legal hook that the non-AQs could conceivably hang their hat on? 
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Bert Presley
7/26/2013 7:31 PM
I think what will condemn this new Big 5 thing is the fact they will turn themselves into the Minor Leagues. paying players lower salaries and eventually having to produce results will result in athletic teams not caring about grades. It will make College Football and Minor National Football League. Who wants to watch the Columbus Clippers despite the fact they are AAA? The same can be said for College baseball to an extent. What could happen is Ohio and some others say, we never will go down the road of Minor League NFL, so we team up with current FCS schools and keep the University feel to the sports.
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Bert Presley
7/26/2013 7:32 PM
Also on a side note, if they did leave the NCAA, the NCAA wouldn't let them compete in any other sports.
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The Optimist
7/26/2013 7:34 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Wow, this is going to get really ugly really quick, I think.

Bottom line is your Akron's and Cincinnati's really WANT to be in the Big 5 and are at least making a monetary committment to the necessary facilities. The question for them is: do the Big 5 WANT either one of them? My guess is Cincy gets in next go round. They have the Basketball tradition and they have thrown a ton of money Football's way to at least be in the discussion. Akron, not so sure given their past and current situations.

As for my dear old OHIO, I have come to the realization we do not have the financial resources and cannot make the monetary committment necessary to make the jump. We probably go back to 1960 and maybe become the "small college" champs.

Kinda disappointing when you look at how far we've come from the "dark years" in football but that is the reality of the situation.


This is a 20th century outlook on Ohio University. We've accomplished things the last 10 years that make this view obsolete.

We've got better cards in our hands than limiting ourselves to "small college champs." This isn't Athens vs Cincinnati or Athens vs. Akron. This is Ohio vs. those schools. Past admins failed to properly leverage our name to grow this University. That has changed.

I'm not saying we have the financial resources necessary to compete with the big boys in this new division, but we are certainly not out of it. Our football stadium needs an upgrade... But we are there in hoops and we have other key resources necessary to move up. A passionate student base, a good school, a residential campus and large potential TV markets. Roderick McDavis is positioning us as Ohio, not SE Ohio State of the MAC.

This is not over.
the problem is that while Ohio is doing better in terms of on field and financial results, we are still just celebrating that we were the first MAC school to ever break $1,000,000 in ticket revenue total in football and basketball. The ceiling seems to be pretty low when it comes to money to push programs further. The students are paying for whatever success we are having. The general population of fans, not at all. It may be a different century, but our finances are still 20th century.

Have you seen our basketball budget? It is $3,000,000.00. That is a full million higher than anyone else in the MAC. That is a very different place from where it was in 2000.

Yes, we are still playing in the MAC. That limits what we are going to be able to do today. What about this year? I see extremely good revenue growth from football this year. In 5 years? We have Cincinnati and Kansas coming to Peden in football. That is an upgrade, and those tickets will sell for more increasing revenues.
Our opening game in football has been on ESPN two straight years. We are penetrating key markets in Ohio... The revenue from that will come.

Personally, I don't just view athletic revenue as ticket sales. I like to look at publicity generated and what that does for our University. Our freshman classes the last couple years have skyrocketed... More applications... Smarter kids. Very real growth. That may not show up on the balance sheet today, but that is extremely valuable growth that administrators need to take into account. I fully believe they are taking that into account.... The current admin gets it.

Last Edited: 7/26/2013 7:38:15 PM by The Optimist
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C Money
7/26/2013 7:34 PM
stout76 wrote:expand_more
For all you attorneys out there, just curious but do you see any legal hook that the non-AQs could conceivably hang their hat on? 


Maybe, but I think it's probably more of a political question than a legal question. I really don't see how this move would help the AQs with their anti-trust or tax-exempt arguments,,,,but you would probably have to have enough political pull to get the DOJ and IRS to push those lawsuits. The AQs potentially have some labor law issues.....if AQs are paying players, then they might be employees, which opens up so many other legal issues to sort through. If a player is injured, does he get workers' comp? What if players tried to unionize? But again, I don't think that non-AQs can directly bring those lawsuits. It would take a third-party, possibly encouraged by the non-AQs.
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BillyTheCat
7/26/2013 9:34 PM
C Money wrote:expand_more
For all you attorneys out there, just curious but do you see any legal hook that the non-AQs could conceivably hang their hat on?


Maybe, but I think it's probably more of a political question than a legal question. I really don't see how this move would help the AQs with their anti-trust or tax-exempt arguments,,,,but you would probably have to have enough political pull to get the DOJ and IRS to push those lawsuits. The AQs potentially have some labor law issues.....if AQs are paying players, then they might be employees, which opens up so many other legal issues to sort through. If a player is injured, does he get workers' comp? What if players tried to unionize? But again, I don't think that non-AQs can directly bring those lawsuits. It would take a third-party, possibly encouraged by the non-AQs.
What you will see is grants above the cost of tuitions, which get a refund check. At many schools this already happens for some athletes, leaving them with a good little bonus every quarter.
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colobobcat66
7/27/2013 9:04 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Wow, this is going to get really ugly really quick, I think.

Bottom line is your Akron's and Cincinnati's really WANT to be in the Big 5 and are at least making a monetary committment to the necessary facilities. The question for them is: do the Big 5 WANT either one of them? My guess is Cincy gets in next go round. They have the Basketball tradition and they have thrown a ton of money Football's way to at least be in the discussion. Akron, not so sure given their past and current situations.

As for my dear old OHIO, I have come to the realization we do not have the financial resources and cannot make the monetary committment necessary to make the jump. We probably go back to 1960 and maybe become the "small college" champs.

Kinda disappointing when you look at how far we've come from the "dark years" in football but that is the reality of the situation.


This is a 20th century outlook on Ohio University. We've accomplished things the last 10 years that make this view obsolete.

We've got better cards in our hands than limiting ourselves to "small college champs." This isn't Athens vs Cincinnati or Athens vs. Akron. This is Ohio vs. those schools. Past admins failed to properly leverage our name to grow this University. That has changed.

I'm not saying we have the financial resources necessary to compete with the big boys in this new division, but we are certainly not out of it. Our football stadium needs an upgrade... But we are there in hoops and we have other key resources necessary to move up. A passionate student base, a good school, a residential campus and large potential TV markets. Roderick McDavis is positioning us as Ohio, not SE Ohio State of the MAC.

This is not over.
the problem is that while Ohio is doing better in terms of on field and financial results, we are still just celebrating that we were the first MAC school to ever break $1,000,000 in ticket revenue total in football and basketball. The ceiling seems to be pretty low when it comes to money to push programs further. The students are paying for whatever success we are having. The general population of fans, not at all. It may be a different century, but our finances are still 20th century.

Have you seen our basketball budget? It is $3,000,000.00. That is a full million higher than anyone else in the MAC. That is a very different place from where it was in 2000.

Yes, we are still playing in the MAC. That limits what we are going to be able to do today. What about this year? I see extremely good revenue growth from football this year. In 5 years? We have Cincinnati and Kansas coming to Peden in football. That is an upgrade, and those tickets will sell for more increasing revenues.
Our opening game in football has been on ESPN two straight years. We are penetrating key markets in Ohio... The revenue from that will come.

Personally, I don't just view athletic revenue as ticket sales. I like to look at publicity generated and what that does for our University. Our freshman classes the last couple years have skyrocketed... More applications... Smarter kids. Very real growth. That may not show up on the balance sheet today, but that is extremely valuable growth that administrators need to take into account. I fully believe they are taking that into account.... The current admin gets it.
You've hit on a few good points about ticket revenue not being the only criteria for looking at value of athletics, however you miss my main points. Ticket revenue is still extremely low , and because of the much discussed economic restrictions and low population base of the Athens area, it is not likely to allow large increases in total ticket revenue. Playing teams in home and home series reduces the overall revenue because the pay game is now gone or reduced.We may like playing big name schools, but I'm guessing there is little overall financial advantage. The students are bearing the brunt of the athletic dept. expenses-can that continue unabated as college costs continue to spiral out of control compared to almost everything else? While we play all these games on TV, we get great exposure, but the direct monetary payout is trivial. As I've said before, we are essentially giving our product away with lousy TV contracts and cheap tickets. Please let me know how we are going to raise another $20,000,000 to $30,000,000 annually to eliminate the student fees and make this a pay as you go enterprise?
Last Edited: 7/27/2013 9:05:50 AM by colobobcat66
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Monroe Slavin
7/27/2013 12:30 PM
Has their been significant growth of the greater Athens area--within about 30 or so miles--over the last 20 years?

I think (hope) that we are on the cusp of some years of really good ball.  We need that tipping point year.

Get there and I'm thinking that people will come out, demand will drive ticket sales.  If Peden could be expanded to 30-35k seats and filled reasonably often....  Would that make us Michigan or USC?  No.  But it would make a mark.
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Alan Swank
7/27/2013 1:19 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Has their been significant growth of the greater Athens area--within about 30 or so miles--over the last 20 years?

I think (hope) that we are on the cusp of some years of really good ball.  We need that tipping point year.

Get there and I'm thinking that people will come out, demand will drive ticket sales.  If Peden could be expanded to 30-35k seats and filled reasonably often....  Would that make us Michigan or USC?  No.  But it would make a mark.


That's a very good question Monroe.  From 1990 to 2010, the population in Athens County has increased from 59,549 to 64,757.  In the six counties that border Athens County, the population during that same time period has increased from 167,708 to 179,475.  In the 9 counties that border those six counties the poplulation has increased from 518,431 to 625,930 with the majority of that increase in Fairfield and Licking Counties (Columbus sprawl).  The other thing is that when you go east and south, many of those folks are as likely to be WVU or Marshall fans as they are OU fans especially when you consider that Athens County and points southeast get Charleston and Huntington news (that's another story, right OCF).  Anyway, this will be a pivotal year.  With expectations for football and basketball at an all time high (at least since the mid 70's), successful seasons may very well begin to fill the venues.  If we don't do it this year, I'm not sure we ever will.
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bobcat72
7/27/2013 4:25 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
With expectations for football and basketball at an all time high (at least since the mid 70's), successful seasons may very well begin to fill the venues.  If we don't do it this year, I'm not sure we ever will.


I'm not sure expectations for hoops are at an "all-time high". I think we'll have a pretty good season, but all-time high is a bit of a stretch.
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Alan Swank
7/27/2013 5:05 PM
bobcat72 wrote:expand_more
With expectations for football and basketball at an all time high (at least since the mid 70's), successful seasons may very well begin to fill the venues.  If we don't do it this year, I'm not sure we ever will.


I'm not sure expectations for hoops are at an "all-time high". I think we'll have a pretty good season, but all-time high is a bit of a stretch.


Individually I'd agree with you but collectively with Akron being down in basketball this year, I'll stand by the original comment.
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UpSan Bobcat
7/27/2013 5:41 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
With expectations for football and basketball at an all time high (at least since the mid 70's), successful seasons may very well begin to fill the venues.  If we don't do it this year, I'm not sure we ever will.


I'm not sure expectations for hoops are at an "all-time high". I think we'll have a pretty good season, but all-time high is a bit of a stretch.


Individually I'd agree with you but collectively with Akron being down in basketball this year, I'll stand by the original comment.


Why would Akron be down any more than Ohio? They graduated Zeke Marshall and Chauncey Gilliam. Even if you throw in Abreu, Ohio seems to have lost a lot more than Akron.

I would say that it seems that Ohio has reached a point in basketball where sustained success over several seasons is more likely than it's been for a long time and I do think people who realize that are excited about it.
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bobcat72
7/27/2013 5:54 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Individually I'd agree with you but collectively with Akron being down in basketball this year, I'll stand by the original comment.


Agree with UpSan...we lost even more than they did.

It's tough to top the sort of expectations that surrounded the Trent years. And, of course, last season as well.

Honestly, though, I think we have just as good of a shot at a MAC title this season as last season. We'll see!
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The Optimist
7/27/2013 10:03 PM

If we limit our ticket market to Athens, then yes this football program has limited potential.

The biggest point I am trying to stress is that Athens isn't the extent of Ohio University's market. The Nelsonville bypass is essentially finished. Its an hour and change to Columbus.

When we are playing Bowling Green and Eastern Michigan, we aren't going to convince many people to drive from Cleveland for a Satirday game. With Kansas rolling into Peden and Frank has a good team, I might be able to convince some casual fans to make that drive...

We aren't going to join the ACC because SE Ohio's population jumps 10%. We are going to join the ACC when the 3 C's recognize the Ohio Bobcats as the states team. This is a lot easier today than it was 5 years ago because the students starting school in the fall will tell you they go to a sports school.

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Alan Swank
7/27/2013 10:05 PM
bobcat72 wrote:expand_more
Individually I'd agree with you but collectively with Akron being down in basketball this year, I'll stand by the original comment.


Agree with UpSan...we lost even more than they did.

It's tough to top the sort of expectations that surrounded the Trent years. And, of course, last season as well.

Honestly, though, I think we have just as good of a shot at a MAC title this season as last season. We'll see!


I'm sure this will spur some debate but two of the biggest losses we've had in the last 35 years were Patrick Flomo and Jason Terry.  Those two guys changed game plans.  I think the same is true with Zeke Marshall.   Suddenly Akron's opponents can no attack the basket without threat of a block or an altered shot.  That and Abreu floating away are why I say they'll be down a bit this year.  

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BillyTheCat
7/27/2013 11:51 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
If we limit our ticket market to Athens, then yes this football program has limited potential.
The biggest point I am trying to stress is that Athens isn't the extent of Ohio University's market. The Nelsonville bypass is essentially finished. Its an hour and change to Columbus.
When we are playing Bowling Green and Eastern Michigan, we aren't going to convince many people to drive from Cleveland for a Satirday game. With Kansas rolling into Peden and Frank has a good team, I might be able to convince some casual fans to make that drive...
We aren't going to join the ACC because SE Ohio's population jumps 10%. We are going to join the ACC when the 3 C's recognize the Ohio Bobcats as the states team. This is a lot easier today than it was 5 years ago because the students starting school in the fall will tell you they go to a sports school.

That worked well for Minnesota! And Minnesota > Kansas
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BillyTheCat
7/27/2013 11:57 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
If we limit our ticket market to Athens, then yes this football program has limited potential.
The biggest point I am trying to stress is that Athens isn't the extent of Ohio University's market. The Nelsonville bypass is essentially finished. Its an hour and change to Columbus.
When we are playing Bowling Green and Eastern Michigan, we aren't going to convince many people to drive from Cleveland for a Satirday game. With Kansas rolling into Peden and Frank has a good team, I might be able to convince some casual fans to make that drive...
We aren't going to join the ACC because SE Ohio's population jumps 10%. We are going to join the ACC when the 3 C's recognize the Ohio Bobcats as the states team. This is a lot easier today than it was 5 years ago because the students starting school in the fall will tell you they go to a sports school.

You really think that The "Three C's" will ever recognize the Bobcats? What in blue blazes, are you shooting up? Cincinnati fans ( the general fans, not Ohio Alumni) will ever root OHIO over UC or even X, Columbus same for OSU, and Cleve
And looks down at anything south of 71.
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The Optimist
7/28/2013 1:50 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
If we limit our ticket market to Athens, then yes this football program has limited potential.
The biggest point I am trying to stress is that Athens isn't the extent of Ohio University's market. The Nelsonville bypass is essentially finished. Its an hour and change to Columbus.
When we are playing Bowling Green and Eastern Michigan, we aren't going to convince many people to drive from Cleveland for a Satirday game. With Kansas rolling into Peden and Frank has a good team, I might be able to convince some casual fans to make that drive...
We aren't going to join the ACC because SE Ohio's population jumps 10%. We are going to join the ACC when the 3 C's recognize the Ohio Bobcats as the states team. This is a lot easier today than it was 5 years ago because the students starting school in the fall will tell you they go to a sports school.



You really think that The "Three C's" will ever recognize the Bobcats? What in blue blazes, are you shooting up? Cincinnati fans ( the general fans, not Ohio Alumni) will ever root OHIO over UC or even X, Columbus same for OSU, and Cleve
And looks down at anything south of 71.

Yep... Sorry...  I know it may blow some of your minds.... But this isn't Ohio U anymore..... This is Ohio.

Welcome to the new O-H-I-O. I live in Cleveland. I have bought season tickets for Ohio football with some recent alums and will be making the 3 hour trek down from Cleveland for the Saturday games. I have actually convinced a couple OSU alums that Ohio Bobcats football is worth coming down to tailgate for.... No joke. 

The culture has changed.
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cbarber357
7/28/2013 1:53 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
If we limit our ticket market to Athens, then yes this football program has limited potential.
The biggest point I am trying to stress is that Athens isn't the extent of Ohio University's market. The Nelsonville bypass is essentially finished. Its an hour and change to Columbus.
When we are playing Bowling Green and Eastern Michigan, we aren't going to convince many people to drive from Cleveland for a Satirday game. With Kansas rolling into Peden and Frank has a good team, I might be able to convince some casual fans to make that drive...
We aren't going to join the ACC because SE Ohio's population jumps 10%. We are going to join the ACC when the 3 C's recognize the Ohio Bobcats as the states team. This is a lot easier today than it was 5 years ago because the students starting school in the fall will tell you they go to a sports school.



You really think that The "Three C's" will ever recognize the Bobcats? What in blue blazes, are you shooting up? Cincinnati fans ( the general fans, not Ohio Alumni) will ever root OHIO over UC or even X, Columbus same for OSU, and Cleve
And looks down at anything south of 71.

I work with a few columbus people who aren't alumni and root for OU
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The Optimist
7/28/2013 1:57 AM
Why would anyone in Columbus or Cleveland ever root for the Cincinnati Bearcats? I can tell you why they would root for the Ohio Bobcats........... Because they live in Ohio.........
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Hawaiian Bobcat
7/28/2013 3:46 AM
My question is it really worth it?  Let's say some how the money issue was not a problem.  Do we really want to be big time college football?  I believe that Ohio is such a special place because all of our fans have a very special connection to the University.  We either attended Ohio or our children did or both.  Whenever I get the opportunity to talk to a fellow Bobcat fan, usually the conversation has more to do with our love for Athens.  It will be about uptown, the dorms, sledding down Jeff Hill, or even Strouds Run.  We love the University and the Bobcats.  The teams truly represent us.

If we become big time...we WILL get sidewalk alumni.  When you run into a Bobcat fan will they know anything about OUr school?  Will they embarrass us like state's sidewalk alumni?  Do we really despise state's alumni or just people that have no affiliation with state besides rooting for them.  Are we willing to sacrifice the integrity of our school for being big time?

I appreciate Optimist's posts and I really don't know where I stand on the issue.  I have dreamed of being big time and seeing Ohio in the Rose Bowl.  Then I think about the consequences.  When I run into an Ohio fan do I want to have a conversation to be just about the Bobcats or do I want to talk about our special university as well?

If Ohio tries to keep up with the Big 5 it might take away some of things we love most about Ohio.  Just a different thought on the issue.
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BillyTheCat
7/28/2013 9:49 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Why would anyone in Columbus or Cleveland ever root for the Cincinnati Bearcats? I can tell you why they would root for the Ohio Bobcats........... Because they live in Ohio.........
Well then in a State with 11 Million people, why are we not building a bigger Stadium and selling out the Convo on a daily basis. I will acknowledge that we are growing, but for some to think we are the top product in the 3 largest cities, is quite comical.
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