Ohio Football Topic
Topic: TOS to EMU
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Bcat2
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Posted: 11/11/2013 8:02 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
It's worth pointing out that the Constitution only applies to what the Federal Government does. It doesn't apply to what EMU does. I'm sure they could fire him for this, or they could have not fired him for it; and taken some other action.
 

This used to be true, until the Courts interpreted the 14th Amendment as making the 1st Amendment applicable to the states. Here's one very brief and incomplete explanation of the current status of this issue.


OCF, thanks, I did not know that.
L.C.
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Posted: 11/11/2013 9:00 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
This used to be true, until the Courts interpreted the 14th Amendment as making the 1st Amendment applicable to the states. Here's one very brief and incomplete explanation of the current status of this issue.

That's obviously, true, too. Still, unless you think that the administrators of EMU were making laws, it still doesn't apply. The First Amendment doesn't guarantee free speech. It guarantees that laws won't be made abridging free speech. What we have here is not a constitutional issue. It's a matter of employment law.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/11/2013 9:41 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
This used to be true, until the Courts interpreted the 14th Amendment as making the 1st Amendment applicable to the states. Here's one very brief and incomplete explanation of the current status of this issue.

That's obviously, true, too. Still, unless you think that the administrators of EMU were making laws, it still doesn't apply. The First Amendment doesn't guarantee free speech. It guarantees that laws won't be made abridging free speech. What we have here is not a constitutional issue. It's a matter of employment law.


I agree, L.C., that your are correct and that as currently construed this is a matter of employment law.  What I'm saying, in essence, is that I think the "spirit of the First Amendment" should make us all err on the side of more speech, rather than less, and to oppose speech with which we disagree with more speech rather than with a more heavy-handed action on the part of the relevant power structure whenever possible.  I know that I'm in the minority as a First Amendment extremist, but I even support the right of JSF to call me names and say that I'm out-of-touch in the enlightened 21st Century, or worse.  

Now, to bring this back to another relevant topic broached a few posters up, I fully support the right of EMU to drop football! 
Last Edited: 11/11/2013 9:55:33 PM by OhioCatFan
JSF
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Posted: 11/12/2013 12:12 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
What I'm saying, in essence, is that I think the "spirit of the First Amendment" should make us all err on the side of more speech, rather than less, and to oppose speech with which we disagree with more speech rather than with a more heavy-handed action on the part of the relevant power structure whenever possible.


The problem with your argument here there is a difference between mere disagreeable speech and people in a position of power using their stature to demean, debase, and harm. Again, if Ron English came up to me on the street and said that, it would be one thing. It's an entirely different thing when he's acting under the auspices of his employer. When I'm at work, I can't insult the kids and rant at them if they're messing up in a game of tag. My boss can't say to me the things Ron English said to his team. It's not the government cuffing people and taking them away, it's employers acting in their best interest and under employment practices and laws.
L.C.
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Posted: 11/12/2013 1:45 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
....The problem with your argument here there is a difference between mere disagreeable speech and people in a position of power using their stature to demean, debase, and harm. ....

This was why I viewed the rant as relatively tame, compared to some I have heard. It was clearly a general rant, and not directed to a specific person. If he was using this kind of language to demean a specific person or persons, I would have viewed it the way you do, but to me it sounded more like he was rambling and ranting in general. Because it was general, rather than specific, I think EMU had some flexibility in how they chose to deal with it.
JSF
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Posted: 11/13/2013 12:42 AM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
....The problem with your argument here there is a difference between mere disagreeable speech and people in a position of power using their stature to demean, debase, and harm. ....

This was why I viewed the rant as relatively tame, compared to some I have heard. It was clearly a general rant, and not directed to a specific person. If he was using this kind of language to demean a specific person or persons, I would have viewed it the way you do, but to me it sounded more like he was rambling and ranting in general. Because it was general, rather than specific, I think EMU had some flexibility in how they chose to deal with it.


I think that's a very valid viewpoint. But, I dunno, if my coach had ever addressed us like that, I would've said the next time it happens, I walk. I don't think a coach has the right to talk to me or my teammates like that, individually or as a group.
Athens
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Posted: 11/13/2013 12:55 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
....The problem with your argument here there is a difference between mere disagreeable speech and people in a position of power using their stature to demean, debase, and harm. ....

This was why I viewed the rant as relatively tame, compared to some I have heard. It was clearly a general rant, and not directed to a specific person. If he was using this kind of language to demean a specific person or persons, I would have viewed it the way you do, but to me it sounded more like he was rambling and ranting in general. Because it was general, rather than specific, I think EMU had some flexibility in how they chose to deal with it.


I think that's a very valid viewpoint. But, I dunno, if my coach had ever addressed us like that, I would've said the next time it happens, I walk. I don't think a coach has the right to talk to me or my teammates like that, individually or as a group.

Not in 2013. Hello this is modern times.

 
ClevelandCat '11
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Posted: 11/13/2013 1:14 AM
TOS to Ohio
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