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Topic: Time to build a better season
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L.C.
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Posted: 1/7/2014 9:58 AM
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I'm not of the school that winning football is built by a few play calls, or a few formation changes. Instead, I am of the school that it is built by hard work, in the weight room, and in the IPF, during the off season. Give me a team that worked its butt off all winter and you have a team that can wear other teams down and win games.

I am also not in the "Sano sucks" school. His job is to put together programs that can build the players, but in the end its up to the players. They can show up every day and do the lifts, etc, and get little, or they can show up with a chip on their shoulder, and push themselves to the limit, and get a lot. 

In real life, Football is not a video game. It's still a place where hard work in the off season is needed to get in a position to win. The more things change, the more they stay the same. It's still about players believing and being relentless, and that is especially true in the off season, and even more true this year than most since it will be a young team,

I hope this year we will get back to the getting a press release that tells us who worked hard, and earned Super-Iron Bobcat, etc. Those players should get public accolades. I'm not sure why they have gotten away from that in recent years, but I hope they get back to it. The Bobcats need to approach the Winter Strength and Conditioning program with a major chip on their shoulder if they want to be in a position where they can upend BG as the best team in the East next year.








 
Robert Fox
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Posted: 1/7/2014 10:04 AM
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Agreed! Can anyone in Athens post an update on the IPF? Pictures?
Bcat2
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Posted: 1/7/2014 9:24 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
I'm not of the school that winning football is built by a few play calls, or a few formation changes. Instead, I am of the school that it is built by hard work, in the weight room, and in the IPF, during the off season. Give me a team that worked its butt off all winter and you have a team that can wear other teams down and win games.

I am also not in the "Sano sucks" school. His job is to put together programs that can build the players, but in the end its up to the players. They can show up every day and do the lifts, etc, and get little, or they can show up with a chip on their shoulder, and push themselves to the limit, and get a lot.

In real life, Football is not a video game. It's still a place where hard work in the off season is needed to get in a position to win. The more things change, the more they stay the same. It's still about players believing and being relentless, and that is especially true in the off season, and even more true this year than most since it will be a young team,

I hope this year we will get back to the getting a press release that tells us who worked hard, and earned Super-Iron Bobcat, etc. Those players should get public accolades. I'm not sure why they have gotten away from that in recent years, but I hope they get back to it. The Bobcats need to approach the Winter Strength and Conditioning program with a major chip on their shoulder if they want to be in a position where they can upend BG as the best team in the East next year.
There will need to be some Jordan Thompson types as well.
L.C.
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Posted: 1/8/2014 12:15 AM
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A guy that comes to my mind is Eric Herman. Not content with the existing programs as motivators to push both himself and the other offensive linemen, he proceeded to invent his own 15 test championship for linemen, and then, of course, he proceeded to dominate it by winning most of the 15 measures, and finishing well in all the others.

There is a reason Herman is in the NFL. It isn't his raw ability. It was his drive to constantly improve himself. Meanwhile, other offensive linemen have come and gone, and gone through the motions of lifting and conditioning, but without pushing themselves constantly, and have accomplished less.

Back in 2006 there was a whole team of players who wanted to win, and who believed they could win, and who relentlessly improved themselves, and who ultimately put themselves in a position where they did win. Lately I,  as a fan, haven't had the same feeling. It's more like they assume they will win, and have just been going through the motions.

This team has far more talent that the 2006 team had, but they don't have so much talent that they can coast to a MAC championship.  Do they want to win as badly as the 2006 team? Winter conditioning will answer that. By the time they get to Spring practice the die will be cast. I hope that this last season was like a warning shot across the bow, and will motivate the players this winter.

If not, it won't matter what formation they line up in, or what play they call. While not totally irrelevant, they have a lot less to do with success than some people think. Mostly I think they help, not by actually making a difference directly in games, but by adding "excitement", which in turn boosts recruiting. Thus, Ohio's move to the pistol helps by helping recruiting more than by changing in-game results.

In the end winning is still about attitude and hard work. That's why some coaches like Grobe or Paul Johnson can win just fine with older strategies (except that they may be limited by recruiting). It's also why young hotshot coaches may come and go, recruiting well, but not winning, while a limited few young coaches are able to combine excitement with a culture of hard work.
 
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/8/2014 1:14 AM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
A guy that comes to my mind is Eric Herman. Not content with the existing programs as motivators to push both himself and the other offensive linemen, he proceeded to invent his own 15 test championship for linemen, and then, of course, he proceeded to dominate it by winning most of the 15 measures, and finishing well in all the others.

There is a reason Herman is in the NFL. It isn't his raw ability. It was his drive to constantly improve himself. Meanwhile, other offensive linemen have come and gone, and gone through the motions of lifting and conditioning, but without pushing themselves constantly, and have accomplished less.

Back in 2006 there was a whole team of players who wanted to win, and who believed they could win, and who relentlessly improved themselves, and who ultimately put themselves in a position where they did win. Lately I,  as a fan, haven't had the same feeling. It's more like they assume they will win, and have just been going through the motions.

This team has far more talent that the 2006 team had, but they don't have so much talent that they can coast to a MAC championship.  Do they want to win as badly as the 2006 team? Winter conditioning will answer that. By the time they get to Spring practice the die will be cast. I hope that this last season was like a warning shot across the bow, and will motivate the players this winter.

If not, it won't matter what formation they line up in, or what play they call. While not totally irrelevant, they have a lot less to do with success than some people think. Mostly I think they help, not by actually making a difference directly in games, but by adding "excitement", which in turn boosts recruiting. Thus, Ohio's move to the pistol helps by helping recruiting more than by changing in-game results.

In the end winning is still about attitude and hard work. That's why some coaches like Grobe or Paul Johnson can win just fine with older strategies (except that they may be limited by recruiting). It's also why young hotshot coaches may come and go, recruiting well, but not winning, while a limited few young coaches are able to combine excitement with a culture of hard work.
 
Bcat2
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Posted: 1/8/2014 11:07 AM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
A guy that comes to my mind is Eric Herman. Not content with the existing programs as motivators to push both himself and the other offensive linemen, he proceeded to invent his own 15 test championship for linemen, and then, of course, he proceeded to dominate it by winning most of the 15 measures, and finishing well in all the others.

There is a reason Herman is in the NFL. It isn't his raw ability. It was his drive to constantly improve himself. Meanwhile, other offensive linemen have come and gone, and gone through the motions of lifting and conditioning, but without pushing themselves constantly, and have accomplished less.

Back in 2006 there was a whole team of players who wanted to win, and who believed they could win, and who relentlessly improved themselves, and who ultimately put themselves in a position where they did win. Lately I, as a fan, haven't had the same feeling. It's more like they assume they will win, and have just been going through the motions.

This team has far more talent that the 2006 team had, but they don't have so much talent that they can coast to a MAC championship. Do they want to win as badly as the 2006 team? Winter conditioning will answer that. By the time they get to Spring practice the die will be cast. I hope that this last season was like a warning shot across the bow, and will motivate the players this winter.

If not, it won't matter what formation they line up in, or what play they call. While not totally irrelevant, they have a lot less to do with success than some people think. Mostly I think they help, not by actually making a difference directly in games, but by adding "excitement", which in turn boosts recruiting. Thus, Ohio's move to the pistol helps by helping recruiting more than by changing in-game results.

In the end winning is still about attitude and hard work. That's why some coaches like Grobe or Paul Johnson can win just fine with older strategies (except that they may be limited by recruiting). It's also why young hotshot coaches may come and go, recruiting well, but not winning, while a limited few young coaches are able to combine excitement with a culture of hard work.
Interesting that Bama's streak came to an end with their senior QB and so many other great players, from great recruiting class after class. The coaches, no doubt, were doing their usual. L.C., might they have started to think they were there and did not have to work as hard as before? Ohio is not Bama, but, their run had been long and some might have not been as hungry to win as before. If anyone replies, please keep it in the general. Thanks.
Last Edited: 1/8/2014 11:09:34 AM by Bcat2
Doc Bobcat
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Posted: 1/8/2014 12:08 PM
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Complacent not hungry.

Expecting to win by stepping on the field.

To me these factors are important. We must lose these kinds of attitudes. The Chicken Little sky is fallin bunch seem to think that it's all recruiting and that OUr average or below average MAC recruits have failed this year and will continue to fail because of a lack of stars. You even see threads wanting Tall Receivers Needed or 4 Star Recruits needed where I would like to see Players Who Work Hard and Play Hard with an Underdog Attitude Needed.

Sure....we can always recruit better....but losing a player doesn't mean it's all Franks fault or because OUr campus is out in the sticks with the squirrels and the ticks, Students sometimes have personal reasons.

We need leaders that inspire others. Sure....Jordan Thompson type guys would be nice. Do we have any? Stay tuned.
Last Edited: 1/8/2014 12:11:35 PM by Doc Bobcat
L.C.
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Posted: 1/8/2014 1:04 PM
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Doc Bobcat wrote:expand_more
,.,
I would like to see Players Who Work Hard and Play Hard with an Underdog Attitude Needed.

^this

I don't think the sky is falling. I do think that while "success begats sucess", it can also begat complacency. I never would have guessed that the level of sucess that Ohio had from 2009 to mid 2012 would be enough to lead to complacency, but that was what it looked like. I think that the tone for complacency might have been set by all the injuries, which in turn led the coaches to limit reps in scrimmages for the starter.

In any case, I see this as merely an unanticipated bump in the road, not the end of the line. While the graduating Seniors may not have accomplished as much as we hoped for them, they accomplished more than the classes that preceeded them, they set the bar higher for those that follow, and they have attracted exactly the kinds of recruits that are likely to raise that bar yet again.
Last Edited: 1/8/2014 1:07:40 PM by L.C.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 1/8/2014 4:36 PM
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Alabama had enough success to become complacent. It's actually warranted. We never lost fewer than four games in a season and have zero conference titles. We're all trying to come up with reasons, but none of them really make sense. Complacency due to overwhelming success certainly does not.
Paul Graham
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Posted: 1/8/2014 4:51 PM
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This team got the crap kicked out of them by Kent and BSU in 2012. And lost to Miami (uggh) and BG.

If they "Expecting to win by stepping on the field" then they are mentally ill.
L.C.
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Posted: 1/8/2014 5:45 PM
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Another possibility is that it wasn't complacency at all, but some form of demotivation from the massive numbers of season ending injuries that made some players wonder if it was worth it. I don't think we, as outsiders can know exactly what went wrong, but i think its clear enough that the team did not reach its potential.

Winter conditioning is the start of a new season. The team knows that they have their work cut out to avoid a repeat, and that it starts now. Some people think wins are determined by play calling. I think they are determined by conditioning, and by a will to win. Last year's team came up short for whatever reason. I think this team will have a different spirit, but what will it be?

 
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 1/8/2014 7:09 PM
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Can we drop the built in injury excuse? We simply were not as good as some expected.
L.C.
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Posted: 1/8/2014 9:50 PM
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well, something changed in the middle of 2012. You're welcome to join in the speculation. I don't think play calling changed. I do think there were some changes in defensive strategy (seeking more penetration from the defensive line) that weren't entirely succesful, but I think something psychological changed, too.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/9/2014 10:15 AM
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The Crimson TIde is an apt analogy.  Their season was surely comparable to ours.
L.C.
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Posted: 1/9/2014 11:25 AM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
The Crimson TIde is an apt analogy.  Their season was surely comparable to ours.
In a strange way, it was. Alabama has a long tradition of winning, and even of winning National Championships. Thus, after two seasons as good as any at Alabama, they had an off year. 

Ohio does not have a tradition of winning. What sort of season at Ohio does it take to be "one of the best ever"? Going to a bowl? Winning a bowl? Winning a MAC East championship? Beating a B1G team on national TV in front of 100,000? Being nationally ranked? By whatever measures you want to use, the period 2009 to mid-2012 was a very successful period for Ohio football.

Now its time to start again, but now the bar of "success" is a bit higher.

 
Last Edited: 1/9/2014 11:26:31 AM by L.C.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/9/2014 12:11 PM
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We must have moved to a parallel universe if we're going to make the claim that the Crimson Tide had an off season that is any way comparable to our season.  'cause in the world that I try to live in, that is not a credible thought.
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Posted: 1/9/2014 12:13 PM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Alabama had enough success to become complacent. It's actually warranted. We never lost fewer than four games in a season and have zero conference titles. We're all trying to come up with reasons, but none of them really make sense. Complacency due to overwhelming success certainly does not.


This x1000000000000000000000000000000000000
OUcats82
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Posted: 1/9/2014 12:35 PM
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We are in a good (not great) era for Ohio Football and had a disappointing year by our current standards.  I will start by saying that 7-6 with playing in a bowl game is a far cry from 1-10 or so.  That being said I am not happy with a mind set of "we are not as bad as we used to be." That held water for a number of the Frank years for me.  I was disgusted with the Knorr era as much as the next person as I thought we never should have been there in the first place.  What happened between the glory years of the 60s and present day (minus the Grobe years) never should have happened.  Not sure if it's worth placing blame at this point but 30 or so years of obscurity and irrelevance never should have happened.  

It's time for us to go out and win a MAC title already.  I won't speak for everyone but I know my impatience/frustration would be close to non existent had we not blown that MACC back in 2011.  It would have filled my cup for a few years and gave me something to hang my fan hat on.  My high school finally won a state title about ten years ago after several near misses.  Have not won one since.  But to have experienced even just one in my lifetime was a privilege and something I will never forget. Helped convince me that yes, it can happen. 

2012 and (and especially) 2013 would still have left a bad taste in my mouth but not as much.

I am cautiously optimistic about this upcoming season.  Our younger players will be a year older/wiser.  Those with a sense of entitlement hopefully were smacked in the mouth enough to realize they need to get after it hard this off season.  Expectations will be rather low so they may play more carefree and loose.  Too often I felt like we gave off a "playing not to lose" vibe the past two years.  If we fall flat on our face and get blown out in a lot of games next year it may be time to make some changes.  I am most looking for changes/improvement in attitude, heart, effort, maturity, and resiliency.  Something tells me that touchdowns and stout defense will follow if those things are fixed.

 
Doc Bobcat
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Posted: 1/9/2014 12:55 PM
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OUcats82 wrote:expand_more
We are in a good (not great) era for Ohio Football and had a disappointing year by our current standards. I will start by saying that 7-6 with playing in a bowl game is a far cry from 1-10 or so. That being said I am not happy with a mind set of "we are not as bad as we used to be." That held water for a number of the Frank years for me. I was disgusted with the Knorr era as much as the next person as I thought we never should have been there in the first place. What happened between the glory years of the 60s and present day (minus the Grobe years) never should have happened. Not sure if it's worth placing blame at this point but 30 or so years of obscurity and irrelevance never should have happened.

It's time for us to go out and win a MAC title already. I won't speak for everyone but I know my impatience/frustration would be close to non existent had we not blown that MACC back in 2011. It would have filled my cup for a few years and gave me something to hang my fan hat on. My high school finally won a state title about ten years ago after several near misses. Have not won one since. But to have experienced even just one in my lifetime was a privilege and something I will never forget. Helped convince me that yes, it can happen.

2012 and (and especially) 2013 would still have left a bad taste in my mouth but not as much.

I am cautiously optimistic about this upcoming season. Our younger players will be a year older/wiser. Those with a sense of entitlement hopefully were smacked in the mouth enough to realize they need to get after it hard this off season. Expectations will be rather low so they may play more carefree and loose. Too often I felt like we gave off a "playing not to lose" vibe the past two years. If we fall flat on our face and get blown out in a lot of games next year it may be time to make some changes. I am most looking for changes/improvement in attitude, heart, effort, maturity, and resiliency. Something tells me that touchdowns and stout defense will follow if those things are fixed.

+1.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/10/2014 12:22 AM
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You all won,t like this....but if we don,t go stone age conservative in the second half of the second MACC game, then we win, we faithful are happy for years, 'cruiting improves and the fan base goes from 75 or so here to all of OHIOdom.
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