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Topic: And another thing
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Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/5/2014 9:47 PM
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Why is it a penalty for the offense to have more than 11 persons in the huddle.

Why shouldn't the offense be able to have more than one person in motion, so long as no one's heading to the line of scrimmage before the snap?

Why should there be any rule in regard to how many persons a team must have on the line of scrimmage?

I don't see safety as in issue in these rules.  Unless I'm missing something, I see no reason for these rules.

Hey, if they're never going to call traveling/palming in basketball, why does football need these rules?

 
L.C.
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Posted: 1/5/2014 10:33 PM
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The reason is simple, Monroe. If you ask officials to perform difficult tasks, like determining the spot of a safety, or whether a ball came out before the knee hit the ground, they might get it wrong. To improve their overall accuracy, a way is to add rules that they should be able to get right nearly all the time, like the number of players in a hudle, etc.
MonroeClassmate
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Posted: 1/5/2014 10:39 PM
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Cannot answer your questions but I'll add to the list:

Why offsetting penalties in these circumstances? (the second happened in one of the bowls over the weekend)  

If a defender busts threw the line while being offside but the whistle isn't blown stopping the play and the RB tackles this renegade before he kills his QB, how is it holding?

Another example:  The QB has the ball ready to toss it to his receiver, the receiver is held/dragged down which results in a a flag thrown, but the QB now not having a receiver to toss to is forced to avoid a sack and intentionally grounds the ball.

Shouldn't the head ref learn about both penalties and see the cause/effect of the first infraction?



 
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 1/5/2014 11:20 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Why is it a penalty for the offense to have more than 11 persons in the huddle.

Why shouldn't the offense be able to have more than one person in motion, so long as no one's heading to the line of scrimmage before the snap?

Why should there be any rule in regard to how many persons a team must have on the line of scrimmage?

I don't see safety as in issue in these rules. Unless I'm missing something, I see no reason for these rules.

Hey, if they're never going to call traveling/palming in basketball, why does football need these rules?
Football 101
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 1/6/2014 12:37 AM
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Why is it that the ground cannot cause a fumble unless you are a QB in the NFL and dive head first to the ground?  This one is a real head scratcher to me.  
Last Edited: 1/6/2014 12:38:15 AM by OhioCatFan
Pataskala
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Posted: 1/6/2014 7:11 AM
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It's nice to know that Andy Rooney is alive and well.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 1/6/2014 10:21 AM
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And what's up with those little flaps on coffee lids?! If you don't want to spill your coffee, you shouldn't be driving with it!!! 
C Money
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Posted: 1/6/2014 10:42 AM
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If your kicker can put the ball through the uprights on a kickoff, you ought to get 1 point. That gives some teeth to the 15 yard penalties on scoring plays/extra points.
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 1/6/2014 11:38 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Why is it that the ground cannot cause a fumble unless you are a QB in the NFL and dive head first to the ground?  This one is a real head scratcher to me.  

This would be true of any player in the NFL who is untouched.

 
colobobcat66
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Posted: 1/6/2014 11:40 AM
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How about TD plays over 50 yards get 8 points, over 80 yards get 10 points. Field goals over 50 yards get 5 points
colobobcat66
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Posted: 1/6/2014 11:47 AM
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This gets tougher, but why not mark off penalties that do not affect the result of a TD play after the TD instead of keeping the TD from being counted? This irks me on kickoffs particularly.
cc-cat
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Posted: 1/6/2014 12:55 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Why is it a penalty for the offense to have more than 11 persons in the huddle.


Assures fair competition  As an extreme example to illustrate:  4th and 1.  Offense could have both their offense and special teams on the field in "huddle" - defense would not know which to defend until one of the units runs off.  Defense would then be caught with too many men on field and/or out of position.

Other rules you mentioned have no rationale - that I can think of
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/6/2014 4:21 PM
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CC--couldn't this be countered by the defense keeping more than 11 persons in the huddle, also?  Just seems like a penalty in search of a reason.

Was this (too many offense persons in the huddle)  a penalty until a few years ago?
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 1/6/2014 9:03 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Why is it that the ground cannot cause a fumble unless you are a QB in the NFL and dive head first to the ground? This one is a real head scratcher to me.
Another example of your vast football knowledge.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 1/6/2014 9:06 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
CC--couldn't this be countered by the defense keeping more than 11 persons in the huddle, also? Just seems like a penalty in search of a reason.

Was this (too many offense persons in the huddle) a penalty until a few years ago?
The defense can have more than 11 on the field, watch our team come out of timeouts and change of possessions, we always have 12-13 and adjust with the personnel groupings of the offense.
cc-cat
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Posted: 1/6/2014 9:08 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
CC--couldn't this be countered by the defense keeping more than 11 persons in the huddle, also?  Just seems like a penalty in search of a reason.


And then you have a mad rush to the sidelines.  Again, using my example, major advantage to offense as the defense would also need to prepare to have players down field as well.

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Was this (too many offense persons in the huddle)  a penalty until a few years ago?


It still is a penalty today.

Your other complaints are valid.  This one has rationale behind it.  It is why refs give the D time to make subs when the offense makes late substitutions.
Last Edited: 1/6/2014 9:46:47 PM by cc-cat
L.C.
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Posted: 1/6/2014 9:51 PM
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Since we are giving serious answers, i think the restrictions on the number of players on the line is tied to the need to determine which players are eligbile (to receive, to carry the ball, etc). There must be 4 backs, all of whom are eligible, and 7 on the line, with the outermost ones on both ends also eligible. If 5 or only 3 players were off the line, then what method would br used to determine which 6 players would be eligible?
C Money
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Posted: 1/6/2014 9:55 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
Since we are giving serious answers, i think the restrictions on the number of players on the line is tied to the need to determine which players are eligbile (to receive, to carry the ball, etc). There must be 4 backs, all of whom are eligible, and 7 on the line, with the outermost ones on both ends also eligible. If 5 or only 3 players were off the line, then what method would br used to determine which 6 players would be eligible?


Ahem.

In other news, this BCS NCG is Florida/OSU all over again.
L.C.
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Posted: 1/6/2014 10:08 PM
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Yes, you can eliminate the rule requiring 7 on the line, but then you need to replace it with some other method of determining who is eligible. I think the idea of a whole separate league for A11 is good because it isn't the same game.
C Money
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Posted: 1/6/2014 10:39 PM
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A-11 is a different game NOW, because they banned it. But before then, it was just a couple smart coaches reading the rulebook and being creative. Ain't nothin' wrong with that (although maybe that's the lawyer in me talking).

And even in A-11, you have to have 7 on the line of scrimmage.....you just don't know which 7 because the numbering rules don't apply. It's Joe Tiller's "basketball on grass," but without requiring Drew Brees to be successful.
cc-cat
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Posted: 1/6/2014 10:56 PM
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Is there a lineman requirement in 8 man football?
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 1/6/2014 11:03 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
Since we are giving serious answers, i think the restrictions on the number of players on the line is tied to the need to determine which players are eligbile (to receive, to carry the ball, etc). There must be 4 backs, all of whom are eligible, and 7 on the line, with the outermost ones on both ends also eligible. If 5 or only 3 players were off the line, then what method would br used to determine which 6 players would be eligible?
Not totally true, you can be in the backfield and ineligible by number. And you can be an EMLOS without being eligible, also due to a numbering restriction.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 1/6/2014 11:10 PM
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cc cat wrote:expand_more
Is there a lineman requirement in 8 man football?
8Man rules vary by State but the big exception is there is NO numbering requirement in the 8 man game, you also have 5 eligible in most basic 8 Man formations (three backs and five linemen). Interior linemen (Center and Guards) are not eligible, while the EMLOS is eligible as well as the three backs.
L.C.
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Posted: 1/7/2014 1:40 AM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Not totally true, you can be in the backfield and ineligible by number. And you can be an EMLOS without being eligible, also due to a numbering restriction.
Well, getting back to Monroe's question, the rule requiring 7 on the line and 4 off the line allows the officials to determine who will be eligible (so long as they also have an eligble number).

 
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