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Topic: BUTM
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Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/3/2014 1:38 PM
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Rose Bowl--a fine tussle between Stanford and MichState.  About two minutes left in game and Stanford, down a score, has 4th and about one from their own 40.  They come to the line bunched/jumbo in the middle for a run.  MichState's fine D is likewise bunched in the middle.   Didn't Stanford take a timeout before this play?  With elmost everyplayer on both sides a yard or two from the line of scrimmage and stacked in the middle of the field, Stanford runs BUTM and doesn't come close to the first down.

I know that call had to thrill all the apologists.

'cause some day, somewhere in someone's fairy tale imagination it's a good play and bound to work.
L.C.
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Posted: 1/3/2014 4:08 PM
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Not that its the "Best play" for any specific time, but its certainly an important play. If you can't run the ball successfully, the rest of the offense isn't going to work, either. Basically you become limited to passing while the defense gets after him, a situation where your chances of winning are close to nil.

So ..., there is no magic time to call it, but you have to call it sometimes. Its also true that if you call it in a situation like you described above its like double or nothing. Make it and the D is on it's heels. Fail, and the D has confidence,

 
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 1/3/2014 4:28 PM
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I agree, Monroe and I didn't like the play either, especially when you consider Stanford ran the running back up the middle on 3rd down the play before and that got them nowhere too.  At a minimum, two back-to-back running plays with 2:00 minutes (or less) left in the game was taking precious seconds off the clock.  Questionable playcalling by Stanford at best.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 1/3/2014 6:44 PM
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Mark Lembright '85 wrote:expand_more
I agree, Monroe and I didn't like the play either, especially when you consider Stanford ran the running back up the middle on 3rd down the play before and that got them nowhere too. At a minimum, two back-to-back running plays with 2:00 minutes (or less) left in the game was taking precious seconds off the clock. Questionable playcalling by Stanford at best.
Describing that play call questionable is being charitable. It was horrid. Worse, Hogan handed the ball to the lead FB - with two RBs BEHIND him. Had Stanford been shredding MSU's D on running plays, I might have been understanding But MSU had been bottling up Stanford's running game. If Coach Shaw isn't kicking himself, I'll betcha others in Silicon Valley are doing it for him.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/4/2014 12:31 AM
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LC--there is a time for that play for sure.  Also for sure is that wasn't,t it.

OhioCatFan
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Posted: 1/4/2014 12:45 AM
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What I like to see is for a team to line up in theses situations sometimes and then have the QB fake toward the line or fake a handoff and then pass to a wide open receiver who is uncovered because the defense is all in the box.  It takes guts because it looks stupid if the pass goes awry or the receiver drops it.  But, if it works, it can be six.  
Last Edited: 1/4/2014 4:55:56 PM by OhioCatFan
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 1/4/2014 1:12 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
What I like to see is for a team to line up in theses situations sometimes and then have the QB fake toward the line or fake a handoff and then pass to a wide open receiver who is uncovered because the defense is all in the box.  It takes guts because it looks stupid if the pass goes awry or the received drops it.  But, if it works, it can be six.  


Sounds like the play Clemson ran with less than 2 minutes left.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/4/2014 12:57 PM
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That was a great play by Clem to score their last td.  Their total stud wide receiver, Sammy Stewart (right?), went in motion right.  This caused all the db's to follow.  So, qb rolled right and threw back way left to a wide open receiver.  Fine call.  (Contrast Stanford's horrid BUTM.)

I've never seen a receiver like that Clemson guy.  Not only is he really fast and powerful, but he's going full speed after one stride.  Very impressive.
ts1227
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Posted: 1/4/2014 10:59 PM
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At lest BUTM makes sense on 4th and 1, it's when we run it on 3rd and 15 that makes me want to punch things.
Last Edited: 1/4/2014 11:00:01 PM by ts1227
L.C.
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Posted: 1/5/2014 10:10 AM
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Of course play action in that situation only works if they believe your bluff that you're coming right at them, so you have to bring the power sometimes. Ah, for the job of the Offensive Coordinator, where every play that doesn't work is subject for second guessing.
Bcat2
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Posted: 1/5/2014 5:37 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
Of course play action in that situation only works if they believe your bluff that you're coming right at them, so you have to bring the power sometimes. Ah, for the job of the Offensive Coordinator, where every play that doesn't work is subject for second guessing.
How the heck did TT ever rewrite the record books with the top three seasons ever at Ohio? How the heck did Foster ever have an all-time season for TDs? How the heck did Beau accumulate 3,239 yards over just three seasons? How the heck has Chase become an 18 ypc weapon? None of this must have actually happened.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 1/5/2014 6:16 PM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Of course play action in that situation only works if they believe your bluff that you're coming right at them, so you have to bring the power sometimes. Ah, for the job of the Offensive Coordinator, where every play that doesn't work is subject for second guessing.


How the heck did TT ever rewrite the record books with the top three seasons ever at Ohio? How the heck did Foster ever have an all-time season for TDs? How the heck did Beau accumulate 3,239 yards over just three seasons? How the heck has Chase become an 18 ypc weapon? None of this must have actually happened.


BN you bring up some very interesting and valid points.  In my mind, Jim Brown is the best running back in NFL history based on his yards per carry.  Why do I bring that up?  To me records need to be based on that principle - yards, receptions, points, per whatever NOT on totals.  If you play 13 games a year which these recent players did - in a four year season you play five seasons.  Of course you'll have more of everything if you play an extra season.  Not to diminish any of there accomplishments because some of these post 2005 guys were very good players, but it's not an apples to apples comparison.
L.C.
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Posted: 1/5/2014 6:49 PM
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I think his points are:
1. If BUTM never worked, Beau wouldn't have 3,000 yard.
2. Without BUTM, Cochran would not average 18 yards a catch, because that was what set his receptions up.
3. While one can always question individual play calls, the overall offense was productive.

I didn't take it to be a comparison between TT and Cleve, or between Cochran and Snyder.
Last Edited: 1/5/2014 6:52:34 PM by L.C.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 1/5/2014 8:41 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
BN you bring up some very interesting and valid points.  In my mind, Jim Brown is the best running back in NFL history based on his yards per carry.  Why do I bring that up?  To me records need to be based on that principle - yards, receptions, points, per whatever NOT on totals.  If you play 13 games a year which these recent players did - in a four year season you play five seasons.  Of course you'll have more of everything if you play an extra season.  Not to diminish any of there accomplishments because some of these post 2005 guys were very good players, but it's not an apples to apples comparison.


Welcome to my bandwagon, Alan.  I've been preaching that gospel on this board for several seasons.  I would really like to see a direct comparison between some of the top players of bygone Ohio eras and today's studs on a per game basis.  My guess is that some of today's players would come out on top and some of yesteryear's would, but that it wouldn't be the slam dunk (sorry for mixing sports, but borna says it's OK) that total points, total yards, etc. are. 
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/5/2014 9:40 PM
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Here's how the heck:  9-9 over the last 18 with many of the victories being over comically bad teams and many of the losses being knorr like.

We all get it.  Over the last 3 years there have been many fine moments.


But the stunning insistence this year on BUTM when it wasn't working...the refusal to do such as 2 back sets, jet sweeps, having the qb run more, etc makes some of us not nearly blindly confident about the future.



 
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