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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: EMOTION and PLAY MAKERS
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Casper71
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Posted: 12/23/2013 6:01 PM
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Wow...I have not seen much in the way out of emotion out of this group lately.  Football is a game of emotion and until our "old" staff gets a youthful feeling, I fear the results will be pretty much the same.

Second, we have guys that can block and tackle but we have NO play makers.  I heard Ken Broo talk about this being the Bengals a few years back versus today.  This team couldn't get the big INT or force the big FUMBLE or make anything near a big play .  I know we had the 80 yard pass and the on sides kick but is that all we have in 60 minutes of football?

I think next year will be worse than this year.  If this group has the m ost wins ever, it just shows how bad we had been for decades and how bad our MAC opponents have been lately.

 
Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/23/2013 6:13 PM
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I disagree. The Bobcats played relatively well today. If they were emotionless, they don't come back to take the lead in the third quarter. They don't make a game of it at all.

That didn't happen. This team fought hard the entire distance, but were simply outmatched. We were in the game late because of gutsy play calling and some razzle dazzle. But in the end, we could not match ECU talent for talent.
Casper71
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Posted: 12/23/2013 6:18 PM
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We did not get made and play mad after a couple of those bad calls.  Instead, we wilted.  That's what I mean about EMOTION.  We need some nasties that play that way when adversity strikes.  

I guess you agree we need play makers though!

 
Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/23/2013 6:25 PM
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I agree we need playmakers but every team needs playmakers. And recruiting them is not like picking them up off the grocery story rack. I think (I hope) we are making progress towards getting some of those players. We shall see.

However, I do agree we have trouble controlling the line of scrimmage, offensively and defensively. Personally, I think much of our troubles stems from that. You can't point to the trenches and say "yeah, that's bad, but also our QB is making bad reads" and "our RB is getting stuffed."
Last Edited: 12/23/2013 6:28:10 PM by Robert Fox
LuckySparrow
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Posted: 12/23/2013 6:29 PM
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Daz has playmaker potential, some of which showed today
Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/23/2013 6:45 PM
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LiquidDateII wrote:expand_more
Daz has playmaker potential, some of which showed today


Agree with that. Also thought some other players looked good:
Foster
Cochran
Tettleton
Bass (he really improved through the season)
Jovon Johnson
Laseak
Crutcher
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/24/2013 2:09 AM
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No.  Not on the field yet.
Rowdy Rufus
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Posted: 1/2/2014 11:44 AM
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Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Daz has playmaker potential, some of which showed today


Agree with that. Also thought some other players looked good:
Foster
Cochran
Tettleton
Bass (he really improved through the season)
Jovon Johnson
Laseak
Crutcher
Sadly TT's unwillingness to stay in the pocket cost us a few potential big plays.  I recall at least 3 times we tried to stretch the field with deep routes only to have tt run out of bounds.  
Robert Fox
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Posted: 1/2/2014 1:07 PM
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Was he not staying in the pocket by choice, or because the pocket was collapsing?
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/2/2014 8:54 PM
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We certainly had big problems on line on both sides of the football.

And non-emotion and not-playmaking.



The memory of Beefs o-line in unison knocking us 4-5 yards back downfield followed by TT under incessant jailbreak pressure from Beef's defense is difficult to expunge. 
ytownbobcat
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Posted: 1/2/2014 11:46 PM
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I first saw the lack of emotion during the Miami game this year. We were winning throughout the game and Miami never seriously threatened. It was most noticeable on defense. At first I thought it was disinterest since Miami was such a weak opponent. It probably was frustration at the loss at UL and the CMU gaffe.

Also- after the Louisville game I heard Frank interviewed by Russ and Rob. In complimenting Bridgewater he mentioned that Bridgewater stayed focused and didn't lose concentration when things were not going his way. My impression was that his remarks were made in frustration about TT's on field demeanor.  
Bcat2
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Posted: 1/3/2014 8:56 AM
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ytownbobcat wrote:expand_more
I first saw the lack of emotion during the Miami game this year. We were winning throughout the game and Miami never seriously threatened. It was most noticeable on defense. At first I thought it was disinterest since Miami was such a weak opponent. It probably was frustration at the loss at UL and the CMU gaffe.

Also- after the Louisville game I heard Frank interviewed by Russ and Rob. In complimenting Bridgewater he mentioned that Bridgewater stayed focused and didn't lose concentration when things were not going his way. My impression was that his remarks were made in frustration about TT's on field demeanor.
What purpose does it serve to call out TT at this point? Coach Solich did not. His comments were simply timely and complimentary toward Bridgewater who was the media darling and really the only player the media wanted to talk about at the time, Russ/Rob included.
Rowdy Rufus
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Posted: 1/3/2014 2:07 PM
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Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Was he not staying in the pocket by choice, or because the pocket was collapsing?
A little of both.  Seemed to me there was a little unwillingness to step up and let passing plays develop.   
ytownbobcat
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Posted: 1/3/2014 11:23 PM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I first saw the lack of emotion during the Miami game this year. We were winning throughout the game and Miami never seriously threatened. It was most noticeable on defense. At first I thought it was disinterest since Miami was such a weak opponent. It probably was frustration at the loss at UL and the CMU gaffe.

Also- after the Louisville game I heard Frank interviewed by Russ and Rob. In complimenting Bridgewater he mentioned that Bridgewater stayed focused and didn't lose concentration when things were not going his way. My impression was that his remarks were made in frustration about TT's on field demeanor.


What purpose does it serve to call out TT at this point? Coach Solich did not. His comments were simply timely and complimentary toward Bridgewater who was the media darling and really the only player the media wanted to talk about at the time, Russ/Rob included.


I will stand by what I said although I have no way to present proof. Bridgewater had a career day and did not display any negative emotions during the game. TT seemed frustrated by play calling, timeliness of getting plays called from the sideline and teammate execution. I don't think Frank was calling him out. I think everyone was very disappointed in our performance at UL.
Bcat2
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Posted: 1/4/2014 8:01 AM
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ytownbobcat wrote:expand_more
I first saw the lack of emotion during the Miami game this year. We were winning throughout the game and Miami never seriously threatened. It was most noticeable on defense. At first I thought it was disinterest since Miami was such a weak opponent. It probably was frustration at the loss at UL and the CMU gaffe.

Also- after the Louisville game I heard Frank interviewed by Russ and Rob. In complimenting Bridgewater he mentioned that Bridgewater stayed focused and didn't lose concentration when things were not going his way. My impression was that his remarks were made in frustration about TT's on field demeanor.


What purpose does it serve to call out TT at this point? Coach Solich did not. His comments were simply timely and complimentary toward Bridgewater who was the media darling and really the only player the media wanted to talk about at the time, Russ/Rob included.


I will stand by what I said although I have no way to present proof. Bridgewater had a career day and did not display any negative emotions during the game. TT seemed frustrated by play calling, timeliness of getting plays called from the sideline and teammate execution. I don't think Frank was calling him out. I think everyone was very disappointed in our performance at UL.
Again, at this point, what purpose does it serve for you to call out TT?
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/4/2014 1:21 PM
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It's what fans do.  What--you want us to analyze the future, games that haven't been played?

My apologist friend, please tell me what these numbers represent:

2.9    6.9

2.0    7.4

1.9   5.0

2.0  6.0

3.1   4.7

2.9   5.0
L.C.
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Posted: 1/4/2014 1:53 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
It's what fans do.  What--you want us to analyze the future, games that haven't been played?

My apologist friend....
It's certainly true that some fans do that. Other fans forget football at the end of the season, and think about basketball. Still others keep thinking about football, but focus on the future. I know that you're in the first group, and I'm sure you know I am in the latter group. Life is easier if we accept that we have different perspectives, and that we aren't apt to change each other. 

I'm not sure if your reference to "Aplologists" is intended to include me, but if so, thank you. Apologetics is a field i find fascinating, and i am honored to be called one. Certainly i always try to give an enthusiastic, logical defense of controversial beliefs that i hold.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/5/2014 9:44 PM
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My question and remark were not directed to you, L.C.  They are directed to Bcat2...who hasn't taken a stab at the answer.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 1/6/2014 12:56 AM
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Rowdy Rufus wrote:expand_more
Was he not staying in the pocket by choice, or because the pocket was collapsing?
A little of both.  Seemed to me there was a little unwillingness to step up and let passing plays develop.   


In our bowl game the announcers were saying that TT was staying in the pocket too much and that that was the reason for his interceptions.  They said that when he rolled out he had much better vision downfield given his size.  If this is true, then the question is why did he not roll out more.  This is the corollary of why did his rushing yardage go precipitously downhill his last two years on a slope that looks like a Wall Street crash?  This is not calling TT out, but asking questions that any intelligent fan would want to know the answers to.  In all my many years of sportsfandom I don't think I can remember anything quite like this complete reversal of the fortunes of a rising young start that wasn't due to injury or some other obvious factor.  This is still a big mystery to me and I'm wondering where Sherlock Holmes is to solve it!   
Bcat2
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Posted: 1/6/2014 8:36 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Was he not staying in the pocket by choice, or because the pocket was collapsing?
A little of both. Seemed to me there was a little unwillingness to step up and let passing plays develop.


In our bowl game the announcers were saying that TT was staying in the pocket too much and that that was the reason for his interceptions. They said that when he rolled out he had much better vision downfield given his size. If this is true, then the question is why did he not roll out more. This is the corollary of why did his rushing yardage go precipitously downhill his last two years on a slope that looks like a Wall Street crash? This is not calling TT out, but asking questions that any intelligent fan would want to know the answers to. In all my many years of sportsfandom I don't think I can remember anything quite like this complete reversal of the fortunes of a rising young start that wasn't due to injury or some other obvious factor. This is still a big mystery to me and I'm wondering where Sherlock Holmes is to solve it!
Perhaps he heard all the commentators going gaga over the QBs who keep their heads up to find the receivers downfield. I would be interested in numbers comparing yardage gained him running vs passing on plays when he was flushed?

Bottom line, still so grateful to TT for the fine play.
Last Edited: 1/6/2014 8:38:14 AM by Bcat2
C Money
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Posted: 1/6/2014 9:19 AM
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T^2 was better outside the pocket when he was a running threat, because the defense had to react to that. When he stopped being a running threat, he needed to be a better pocket passer, and I do think it's true that he never fully developed that part of his game. He pretty consistently would flee the pocket instead of stepping up into it.

 

Casper71
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Posted: 1/6/2014 3:07 PM
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I agree with many here and the announcers of the Bowl game.  We needed to develop a roll out passing game with TT.  He never seemed comfortable in the pocket.  And, if you watch those Tangerine Bowl highlights on one of the threads...and from my recollection of the late 60s and Cleve Bryant, that is what made him so effective.  Most everything was a roll out. 

That being in the past, the question is: What will they do with Vick?  Drop back, more roll outs, other?  That, to me, is the big question for next year at QB.  It would appear Duckworth is more a pro type passer.  i would say again, I saw a ton of big pro style QBs in the bowl games but these guys could all run too when they needed to.

 
C Money
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Posted: 1/6/2014 3:21 PM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
That being in the past, the question is: What will they do with Vick?  Drop back, more roll outs, other?   


I think what we do with Vick at QB will depend on what we do at RB. I do not want DazUTM, for his safety and my sanity. If Vick could add some muscle and be an accurate Phil Bates, our QB could be our inside running option, with Auburn's offense as a model.
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Posted: 1/6/2014 3:52 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
It's what fans do.  What--you want us to analyze the future, games that haven't been played?

My apologist friend, please tell me what these numbers represent:

2.9    6.9

2.0    7.4

1.9   5.0

2.0  6.0

3.1   4.7

2.9   5.0

Offensive and defensive first down yardage each of the last six seasons?
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/6/2014 4:25 PM
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Good guess, Dave A.

It's our average gain per running play followed by the oppo's avg gain per running play in our losses in 2013.

We got drilled.

Last Edited: 1/6/2014 4:26:11 PM by Monroe Slavin
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