Ohio Football Topic
Topic: NCAA proposes slowing game
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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:24 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
It reminds me of how our local city government was patting itself on the back a year or so ago. It seems that since they started their bicycle safety program 20 year ago, head injuries to children riding bicycles are down by 50%. It sounds great, until you look around and realize that you never see kids on bicycles anymore. When I was young, I as on my bike all the time, going here, going there. Today's kids, not so much. A guy I know tried a job as an ice cream man, and found he couldn't even make minimum wage. His one sentence summary of the situation was "oddly, you rarely see kids outside anywhere". So, are head injuries down per biked mile? Or, is it just that biked miles are down > 50%? And that isn't even factoring in the effect of spending millions of dollars on bicycle trails so that when kids do bike they don't need to be on roads.
I've had the good fortune of visiting the Netherlands a few times. An estimated 50% of the population ride bicycles. In the mornings you see "herds" of kids biking to school - and without helmets. Nice to know there remain places where parents let kids take some risks.
Bcat2
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:55 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
It reminds me of how our local city government was patting itself on the back a year or so ago. It seems that since they started their bicycle safety program 20 year ago, head injuries to children riding bicycles are down by 50%. It sounds great, until you look around and realize that you never see kids on bicycles anymore. When I was young, I as on my bike all the time, going here, going there. Today's kids, not so much. A guy I know tried a job as an ice cream man, and found he couldn't even make minimum wage. His one sentence summary of the situation was "oddly, you rarely see kids outside anywhere". So, are head injuries down per biked mile? Or, is it just that biked miles are down > 50%? And that isn't even factoring in the effect of spending millions of dollars on bicycle trails so that when kids do bike they don't need to be on roads.
I've had the good fortune of visiting the Netherlands a few times. An estimated 50% of the population ride bicycles. In the mornings you see "herds" of kids biking to school - and without helmets. Nice to know there remain places where parents let kids take some risks.
Mike. Did you catch their speed skating, long tack, in the Olympics? Outstanding.
JSF
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Posted: 2/28/2014 5:32 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
I've had the good fortune of visiting the Netherlands a few times. An estimated 50% of the population ride bicycles. In the mornings you see "herds" of kids biking to school - and without helmets. Nice to know there remain places where parents let kids take some risks.

I'm for exposing kids to risk, but the head is not something to mess around with.

 
The Optimist
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Posted: 2/28/2014 6:00 PM
There are good risks and bad risks. Not wearing a helmet promotes what exactly? I crashed on my bike a lot growing up precisely because I took some risks while racing around the yard with my siblings and friends... Fortunately I was always wearing a helmet.

Then again, my story and what happens in the Netherlands is probably apples and oranges. I am assuming racing or any other forms of competition between kids is outlawed over there. Too big of a risk that kids will start developing capitalist tendencies... 
Robert Fox
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Posted: 2/28/2014 6:25 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Not wearing a helmet promotes what exactly?


The freedom to choose.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 2/28/2014 6:49 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
It reminds me of how our local city government was patting itself on the back a year or so ago. It seems that since they started their bicycle safety program 20 year ago, head injuries to children riding bicycles are down by 50%. It sounds great, until you look around and realize that you never see kids on bicycles anymore. When I was young, I as on my bike all the time, going here, going there. Today's kids, not so much. A guy I know tried a job as an ice cream man, and found he couldn't even make minimum wage. His one sentence summary of the situation was "oddly, you rarely see kids outside anywhere". So, are head injuries down per biked mile? Or, is it just that biked miles are down > 50%? And that isn't even factoring in the effect of spending millions of dollars on bicycle trails so that when kids do bike they don't need to be on roads.
I've had the good fortune of visiting the Netherlands a few times. An estimated 50% of the population ride bicycles. In the mornings you see "herds" of kids biking to school - and without helmets. Nice to know there remain places where parents let kids take some risks.
Mike. Did you catch their speed skating, long tack, in the Olympics? Outstanding.
Yes I did - and emailed my congratulations to Dutch friends.

Dutch excellence in ice skating has its roots in a combination of colder North European winters centuries ago and abundant canals - more than a hundred in Amsterdam alone. In my Long Journey To Destiny I set several scenes on the canals including two ice skating scenes,one of them on the frozen and famed Prinsengracht Canal.
The Optimist
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Posted: 2/28/2014 6:49 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Not wearing a helmet promotes what exactly?


The freedom to choose.

I am against the government mandating that people force their children to wear helmets. I support parents being intelligent enough to mandate that their children wear helmets.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 2/28/2014 6:54 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
I've had the good fortune of visiting the Netherlands a few times. An estimated 50% of the population ride bicycles. In the mornings you see "herds" of kids biking to school - and without helmets. Nice to know there remain places where parents let kids take some risks.


I'm for exposing kids to risk, but the head is not something to mess around with.
We see childhood differently. To me, learning to risk builds confidence and a sense of adventure. For some years we lived on a street surrounded by a deep, horseshoe shaped ravine. I bought my sons climbing claws and ropes and let them go. One of my sons became a sponsored skateboarder; I didn't insist on a helmet. When my sons reached 14 I bought them a moped and didn't require helmets. Injuries? Yes. But the most serious injury incurred was in a soccer game - a cracked pelvis. Today's parents? To me they are way too protective.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 2/28/2014 8:15 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Not wearing a helmet promotes what exactly?


The freedom to choose.

I am against the government mandating that people force their children to wear helmets. I support parents being intelligent enough to mandate that their children wear helmets.


Agreed, although we didn't require it. So I'll say, I support parents being intelligent enough to choose.
Last Edited: 2/28/2014 8:17:40 PM by Robert Fox
L.C.
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Posted: 2/28/2014 9:12 PM
I never wore a helmet as a kid (maybe that explains a lot), because they didn't exist. Now that I'm older, if I ride, I wear a helmet, and I always had my kids do the same.

Getting back to my earlier point, which fact best explains the over 50% reduction in head injuries?
1. Kids riding bikes less often
2. Construction of millions of dollars of bike trails
3. Parents mandating that their kids wear helmets
4. Better helmet designs
5. City run biker safety training program

The biker safety program may or may not have done some good, but if you don't adjust the data for the number of  bikers, and the time they spend riding, you will never know. The same will apply to football. If they design better headgear, and implement rules against "targetting", they may make the game safer, but if at the same time, you see a 30% increase in the number of plays, you may never know if they other things actually accomplished some good.
Last Edited: 2/28/2014 9:13:05 PM by L.C.
JSF
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Posted: 2/28/2014 11:39 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
We see childhood differently. To me, learning to risk builds confidence and a sense of adventure. For some years we lived on a street surrounded by a deep, horseshoe shaped ravine. I bought my sons climbing claws and ropes and let them go. One of my sons became a sponsored skateboarder; I didn't insist on a helmet. When my sons reached 14 I bought them a moped and didn't require helmets. Injuries? Yes. But the most serious injury incurred was in a soccer game - a cracked pelvis. Today's parents? To me they are way too protective.


How is that a different view of childhood, Mike? I don't want kids cracking their heads open or suffering concussions. Such things do absolutely no good and are completely preventable. Why wouldn't you? Broken limbs are acceptable; brain injuries are not. The problem isn't whether or not parents are being too protective as much as nobody is teaching kids how to be safe. Safety equipment is not a substitute for good practices and knowledge.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 3/1/2014 7:51 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
We see childhood differently. To me, learning to risk builds confidence and a sense of adventure. For some years we lived on a street surrounded by a deep, horseshoe shaped ravine. I bought my sons climbing claws and ropes and let them go. One of my sons became a sponsored skateboarder; I didn't insist on a helmet. When my sons reached 14 I bought them a moped and didn't require helmets. Injuries? Yes. But the most serious injury incurred was in a soccer game - a cracked pelvis. Today's parents? To me they are way too protective.


How is that a different view of childhood, Mike? I don't want kids cracking their heads open or suffering concussions. Such things do absolutely no good and are completely preventable. Why wouldn't you? Broken limbs are acceptable; brain injuries are not. The problem isn't whether or not parents are being too protective as much as nobody is teaching kids how to be safe. Safety equipment is not a substitute for good practices and knowledge.


The problem is, I don't think there is much "teaching" to it. Many of today's parents now require their kids to strap on a bicycle helmet when they ride. But that act is not in itself "teaching" anything. In fact, the helmet may embolden the kid to do more crazy stunts. Often the helmets don't fit properly. They are not worn properly. They are damaged or worn out. Ultimately, they give a false sense of security--to the kid and the parents.

Bottom line, if you want to raise your kids by requiring them to wear a bicycle helmet, have at it.
L.C.
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Posted: 3/1/2014 8:15 AM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
The problem is, I don't think there is much "teaching" to it. Many of today's parents now require their kids to strap on a bicycle helmet when they ride. But that act is not in itself "teaching" anything. In fact, the helmet may embolden the kid to do more crazy stunts. Often the helmets don't fit properly. They are not worn properly. They are damaged or worn out. Ultimately, they give a false sense of security--to the kid and the parents.

Bottom line, if you want to raise your kids by requiring them to wear a bicycle helmet, have at it.

You raise some very good points, Robert. Safety equipment, while useful, is not a substitute for safe behavior. I've seen that in other settings as well. For example, in football, if players were not wearing pads and helmets, does anyone think you'd need rules against spearing or head-head contact? Protective gear and helmets give a false sense of security, and so players sometimes do things while in them that they would never dream of doing without them. I've also seen similar behavior in work environments, where employees feel safer than they really are while wearing safety equipment.

Thus, I agree with Mike and Robert about the need and importance of teaching safe behavior, but then, even while engaging in safe behavior, I also would support adding protective equipment when appropriate.
Last Edited: 3/1/2014 8:17:23 AM by L.C.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 3/1/2014 1:49 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
We see childhood differently. To me, learning to risk builds confidence and a sense of adventure. For some years we lived on a street surrounded by a deep, horseshoe shaped ravine. I bought my sons climbing claws and ropes and let them go. One of my sons became a sponsored skateboarder; I didn't insist on a helmet. When my sons reached 14 I bought them a moped and didn't require helmets. Injuries? Yes. But the most serious injury incurred was in a soccer game - a cracked pelvis. Today's parents? To me they are way too protective.


How is that a different view of childhood, Mike? I don't want kids cracking their heads open or suffering concussions. Such things do absolutely no good and are completely preventable. Why wouldn't you? Broken limbs are acceptable; brain injuries are not. The problem isn't whether or not parents are being too protective as much as nobody is teaching kids how to be safe. Safety equipment is not a substitute for good practices and knowledge.
With the possibility that you might become a dad, let me pose some questions:
* Would you buy a son climbing claws and ropes and let him go to a steep-sided ravine? Alone?
* Would you buy a 14-year-old son a moped?
* Would you let him become a sponsored skateboarder - and travel the country unaccompanied?
* How would you react to a child who wanted to volunteer Army?

Of course, I don't want to see kids suffer brain injuries, but I do want to see kids take on real risk. The one head injury suffered by one of my sons was a scalp gash that required stitches - and resulted from playing touch football. Today's helicopter parents might require kids to wear helmets while playing touch football.

When I see tikes on bikes with training wheels and wearing a helmet, I feel sad for the tike. BTW my one granddaughter learned to ride not with training wheels but on a "balance bike" - no pedals. Spills? Yes.

I happen to believe strongly that letting kids take on real risk confers multiple lifetime benefits. Do I expect all parents - or parents to be - to agree? Of course not.
Last Edited: 3/1/2014 1:50:20 PM by Mike Johnson
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 3/5/2014 5:28 PM
Read today that the slow-the-offense proposal was killed.
L.C.
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Posted: 3/5/2014 6:13 PM
I think everyone expected that to happen. It wasn't supposed to be up for discussion until March 6th, but they withdrew it from consideration since comments were overwhelmingly against it, and a survey of coaches showed that they were also overwhelmingly against it.

I suspect we'll see the idea return in some form or other, but I probably next time around there will be some discussion of it before it appears, and it will appear in a form more acceptable to everyone, and with some data that supports the idea that whatever change they propose will actually reduce injuries.
Last Edited: 3/5/2014 6:39:03 PM by L.C.
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