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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: New names for Peden & Convo
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Brufus
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:55 PM
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SBH
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Posted: 4/14/2014 8:05 PM
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Typo in the subhead.  Impressive work.


OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/14/2014 9:30 PM
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Was this supposed to be funny?  Not the greatest satire I've ever read.  

 
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 4/14/2014 9:36 PM
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I loved it!
The Optimist
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Posted: 4/14/2014 10:45 PM
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I've enjoyed the naming jokes I have heard discussed over the years. If it were up to me, I would name every NFL stadium after an Uptown Athens drinking establishment. Plenty of namable stadiums/arenas to go around in pro sports beyond just the bars! Ideally, rival teams would get rival establishments (burrito buggy v big mamas) etc

At the same time, I think there is a sizable chunk of people living in the past when it comes to their expectations for the revenue OUr naming rights are going to generate. The prospectus here is incredibly exciting.
Donuts
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Posted: 4/14/2014 11:13 PM
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Hustlebelt has been trying way too hard to be funny lately. The beer bracket after the NCAA tournament is over? I mean I get it's a filler, but I doubt anyone is following the blog for the beer.
Bobcatbob
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:14 AM
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I'm not a fan of naming rights in general but I get it - it's revenue that needs to be tapped.  However, it raises the question of value in my mind.  How much money does it take to drop a tribute to some forgotten campus/civic/league leader or alum?

If Pepsi offered Ohio $20K a season to drop "Peden" and call OUr stadium the "Mountain Dew Fizzy Fan Zone" or something, do we take that?  Or maybe we hold out for $50K?  Since the people who dedicated the stadium to Coach Peden are long gone, are we free to throw that action aside?

All I know is I wouldn't want to have to decide and I know that nobody wants me to decide because I see it as a form of desecration, albeit one that often pays handsomely.
SBH
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:16 AM
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I think we're only selling the naming rights to the field, not the stadium.  "________ Field" at Peden Stadium.  Or am I mistaken?


BillyTheCat
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Posted: 4/16/2014 12:59 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
I think we're only selling the naming rights to the field, not the stadium.  "________ Field" at Peden Stadium.  Or am I mistaken?



You are correct, only the playing surface of Peden (wonder if this is because it's a landmark?  And the entire building that is currently known as the Convocation Center.

 
The Optimist
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Posted: 4/16/2014 1:24 PM
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I think the decision to sponsor the field at Peden instead of the stadium was a good one. Keep the tradition and still generate revenue.
 

I love the Convo. I am tied deeply to that place. Lived there my freshman year and will never forget the feeling of an elite atmosphere o get walking in. That said, I have no ties to the name. There are like 20 other convocation centers around the NCAA.
Sell the name and let it bring in millions for this program.

 

Last Edited: 4/16/2014 1:25:11 PM by The Optimist
L.C.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 4:49 PM
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FWIW, Northwestern used to play it's games at Dyche Stadium, but they are now held at Ryan Field (which is the same place), so it's been done before. I personally attended many games in Dyche Stadium, including a loss there to Ohio.

Personally I think the re-naming thing is kind of tacky.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/16/2014 5:58 PM
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Bobcatbob wrote:expand_more
. . . .If Pepsi offered Ohio $20K a season to drop "Peden" and call OUr stadium the "Mountain Dew Fizzy Fan Zone" or something, do we take that?  Or maybe we hold out for $50K?  Since the people who dedicated the stadium to Coach Peden are long gone, are we free to throw that action aside? 


Well, the University has done this trick before, and it kind of irks me.  The building now known as Scripps Hall was for years called Carnegie Hall.  My father worked in that building for many years, when it was the home of the mathematics department.  Then Ohio's administration gets an offer from the Scripps Howard Foundation for about $5 million and they change the name.  The problem is that the Carnegie Foundation had originally given the money to construct the building with the understanding that it would be called Carnegie.  It was originally, I believe, the library before Chubb was built.  I asked several upper level administrators at the time if they had received permission from the Carnegie folks to make the name change.  They just gave me puzzled looks and acted like I wasn't a team player because I dared to broach the subject.  Still doesn't sit right with me! 


 
SBH
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Posted: 4/16/2014 6:29 PM
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Well, actually, OCF, the library was built, along with more than 1,600 around the world, with help from Carnegie but not with an understanding that the building be named after him. (The reasons for his philanthropy are interesting to research; he had a very negative public image in the late 1800s. One issue was his role in the sporting club that has been blamed for the Johnstown Flood, which killed more than 2,000 people.)  Miami U. got a Carnegie grant, too, for the building now known as Alumni Hall.  I don't believe there was a quid-pro-quo for these challenge grants; there was a fairly simple formula to follow and you got the grant. If you would prefer, though, we could blame it on Vernon Alden!


Last Edited: 4/16/2014 6:40:29 PM by SBH
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 4/16/2014 7:33 PM
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David Byrne in his book "How Music Works" mused how donations like the ones by Carnegie, Rockefeller and the like turned into de facto secular indulgences. 
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/16/2014 9:29 PM
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Well, SBH, virtually every Carnegie library I've ever seen in communities large and small has had the name Carnegie -- often carved in stone over the main door.  At least a courtesy request to the Carnegie Foundation would have seemed in order to me.  It would be interesting to look through the university archives and see what kind of agreements were actually signed by the Ohio University administration at the time the library was built. I really got the impression that no one at the time that the building was being renamed Scripps Hall had looked to see what the original agreement had been, or if they did that the answer wasn't what they wanted so they ignored it.  As, I said, it was clearly not very cool to raise the issue at the time.  The coolness of the response to my question indicated to me that I had hit a nerve.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 4/16/2014 10:08 PM
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Though many Carnagie Libraries were named after the benefactor, that was in no way part of the awarded grants for the libraries, and many nid not have his name.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/16/2014 10:45 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Though many Carnagie Libraries were named after the benefactor, that was in no way part of the awarded grants for the libraries, and many nid not have his name.
Can you quote a source for this assertion? It is my understanding that the names of these libraries were usually part of the agreement with the Carnegie Foundation before they started to distribute funds, which were given out over a series of years and could include funds for operations, book acquisition as well as just the building itself. I think one would need to see the specific agreement between Ohio University and the Carnegie Foundation circa 1904 to know for sure the answer to this question.  As I said, the university archives would probably have the answer in a dusty folder somewhere. 
Last Edited: 4/16/2014 10:46:56 PM by OhioCatFan
SBH
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:40 AM
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There was a specific formula for getting a Carnegie grant, and it wasn't hard.  Virtually all applications were accepted.  It had to be a free lending library, the "owner" had to raise a specific amount on their own, they had to pledge to budget a certain percentage of the total construction cost toward library acquisitions over a period of time, etc.  There was no mandate that the library be named after Carnegie, although landing one of these libraries was a point of pride for many communities/universities at that time (which is why they called themselves Carnegie libraries).  If you do the research, you will see that MANY were not named for Andrew Carnegie, and many, many more have been renamed as the buildings have been converted to other uses over the decades.  Since the initial funds helped create not just a building but a modern library in Athens, are you upset that the university later moved the library and renamed it "Chubb?"  And then moved it again and called it "Alden?"
JSF
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:12 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
It is my understanding that the names of these libraries were usually part of the agreement with the Carnegie Foundation before they started to distribute funds, which were given out over a series of years and could include funds for operations, book acquisition as well as just the building itself.  

Can you provide a source for this understanding?

 
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:35 AM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
There was a specific formula for getting a Carnegie grant, and it wasn't hard.  Virtually all applications were accepted.  It had to be a free lending library, the "owner" had to raise a specific amount on their own, they had to pledge to budget a certain percentage of the total construction cost toward library acquisitions over a period of time, etc.  There was no mandate that the library be named after Carnegie, although landing one of these libraries was a point of pride for many communities/universities at that time (which is why they called themselves Carnegie libraries).  If you do the research, you will see that MANY were not named for Andrew Carnegie, and many, many more have been renamed as the buildings have been converted to other uses over the decades.  Since the initial funds helped create not just a building but a modern library in Athens, are you upset that the university later moved the library and renamed it "Chubb?"  And then moved it again and called it "Alden?"

I have looked into this a little more and will concede that you are right about the fact that there was no requirement that the library be given the name Carnegie.  However, I have seen a few agreements between the Carnegie Foundation and specific libraries that included the name "Carnegie Library" as part of the agreement.  To me this seemed to be a contract and the naming was part of the contract.  Perhaps, I misinterpreted that.  To your point about Chubb and Alden, I don't see the parallel.  Those were built primarily with state funds (maybe some federal) so I don't see any "naming issue" there at all.  Also, BTW, another stipulation that Carnegie made was that libraries built with his funds had to have open stacks, so that patrons were in control and could browse.  I found that interesting.  

 
DelBobcat
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:35 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Though many Carnagie Libraries were named after the benefactor, that was in no way part of the awarded grants for the libraries, and many nid not have his name.
Can you quote a source for this assertion? It is my understanding that the names of these libraries were usually part of the agreement with the Carnegie Foundation before they started to distribute funds, which were given out over a series of years and could include funds for operations, book acquisition as well as just the building itself. I think one would need to see the specific agreement between Ohio University and the Carnegie Foundation circa 1904 to know for sure the answer to this question.  As I said, the university archives would probably have the answer in a dusty folder somewhere. 

The terms of the grant are easily found by googling "Carnegie Library." There was never a stipulation about the names. Most were not named Carnegie Library and instead took the name of the area they served, such as "Paulding County Library." Many are not used as libraries anymore, and many that are don't have any indication on the outside that they are a Carnegie Library--so you'd never even know by looking at the building. 

There are over 100 Carnegie Libraries in Ohio alone:
 
Last Edited: 4/17/2014 10:35:40 AM by DelBobcat
DelBobcat
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:37 AM
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An example:
Last Edited: 4/17/2014 10:39:35 AM by DelBobcat
JSF
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:40 AM
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A lot of those Carnegie libraries are nice. Weird that ours is one of the uglier ones.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:57 AM
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DelBobcat wrote:expand_more

This list is very interesting.  It has Athens with two Carnegie libraries -- on under public libraries and one under academic libraries.  The former is listed as being a $30,000 grant in 1903 and the latter as a grant of 13,700 in 1915. Now the question is, where is the public library that was built with Carnegie funds?  The current historical society building was once a public library.  I wonder if it was built with Carnegie funds.  

BillyTheCat
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:45 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Carnegie_libraries_in_Ohio 

This list is very interesting.  It has Athens with two Carnegie libraries -- on under public libraries and one under academic libraries.  The former is listed as being a $30,000 grant in 1903 and the latter as a grant of 13,700 in 1915. Now the question is, where is the public library that was built with Carnegie funds?  The current historical society building was once a public library.  I wonder if it was built with Carnegie funds.  


I would tell you, however you wouldn't believe me, so I will not waste my time.

SBH, very well done with the Carnegie grants.  I am huge fan of Carnegie libraries, and have visted a large number of these over the years.
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