Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Ohio applications continue to rise
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L.C.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 2:49 PM
Per the Athens Messenger, applications hit a new record at 20,769 and counting, an 18.9% increase over last year, and 55% increase over 2 years ago. The average ACT and GPA are both also rising. Ohio must be doing something right, or more likely, more than one thing.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/15/2014 10:44 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Per the Athens Messenger, applications hit a new record at 20,769 and counting, an 18.9% increase over last year, and 55% increase over 2 years ago. The average ACT and GPA are both also rising. Ohio must be doing something right, or more likely, more than one thing.


Maybe it's the Nelsonville Bypass and the Texas Roadhouse restaurant! 
The Optimist
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Posted: 4/16/2014 6:36 AM

While some have tried to downplay this every year, this is very huge.

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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:19 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
While some have tried to downplay this every year, this is very huge.
I think Ohio is doing a lot of things right, but I'm also wondering if there are new application techniques like on line applications or something similar. I would think that that's been around a long time, but I don't know that. I hear other schools are going down or is that not right?
Whatever is causing what's going on, it can't be a bad thing,
DelBobcat
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Posted: 4/16/2014 9:42 AM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
While some have tried to downplay this every year, this is very huge.
I think Ohio is doing a lot of things right, but I'm also wondering if there are new application techniques like on line applications or something similar. I would think that that's been around a long time, but I don't know that. I hear other schools are going down or is that not right?
Whatever is causing what's going on, it can't be a bad thing,

I may be wrong, but I believe we hired an outside firm to help with recruitment a couple of years ago. Even if that is true, it is still impressive. You're correct that other schools have seen applications and student quality go down, even with new advances in techniques. The OHIO brand is strong right now. 

 
OUPride
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:19 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more

While some have tried to downplay this every year, this is very huge.


I've questioned the contention that the rise in applications is being driven by athletics when there are so many other factors at work such as the baby boom echo, increased recruiting by Ohio outside the state and the trend among high school seniors to apply to many more colleges than they did a generation ago.  I didn't question the fact that Ohio has seen a rise in applications, but so as almost every other Ohio public university in recent years.

And I've been very clear--with statistics from the university's own archives going back to 2006--that the increase in applications is not leading to better freshman classes.  Student quality has essentially been stagnant since 2006.  Yes, we're getting more applications, but it's not translating into getting better students.  



I am curious as to the assertion that quality is rising also.  Is that confirmed quality in this year's freshman class or are we simply seeing more high quality students apply to Ohio as a safety school but end up attending elsewhere?  If it translates into the former, great.  If Ohio can get the top of the applicant pool to actually attend, that would be real substance and not just cheap talk from McDavis, which is all I've seen until now.

 
Last Edited: 4/16/2014 8:53:58 PM by OUPride
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:26 AM
DelBobcat wrote:expand_more
While some have tried to downplay this every year, this is very huge.
I think Ohio is doing a lot of things right, but I'm also wondering if there are new application techniques like on line applications or something similar. I would think that that's been around a long time, but I don't know that. I hear other schools are going down or is that not right?
Whatever is causing what's going on, it can't be a bad thing,

I may be wrong, but I believe we hired an outside firm to help with recruitment a couple of years ago. Even if that is true, it is still impressive. You're correct that other schools have seen applications and student quality go down, even with new advances in techniques. The OHIO brand is strong right now. 

 


Which schools?  The only one that I've read about with enrollment/application problems is Akron, and that is hardly who we want to be comparing ourselves to.

I haven't seen anything that OSU or Miami are having problems with applications or that student quality is decreasing there, and UC has just passed Ohio for the quality of its freshman classes--something curiously absent from McDavis' speechifying.  



 
L.C.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 1:03 PM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
I've questioned the fact that the rise in applications is being driven by athletics when there are so many other factors at work such as the baby boom echo, increased recruiting by Ohio outside the state and the trend among high school seniors to apply to many more colleges than they did a generation ago.  I didn't question the fact that Ohio has seen a rise in applications, but so as almost every other Ohio public university in recent years.....
It's far better to be debating the cause of good things than to be wondering what caused bad things.

I don't claim to know all the factors at work, but I do know that while the echo-boom would lead to an increase in applications, the size of that increase would not be 55% in two years. Clearly other factors are at work, too. If other universities in Ohio are also seeing application increases, how do the magnitudes of increases compare?

OUPride wrote:expand_more
And I've been very clear--with statistics from the university's own archives going back to 2006--that the increase in applications is not leading to better freshman classes.  Student quality has essentially been stagnant since 2006.  Yes, we're getting more applications, but it's not translating into getting better students.  

I am curious as to the assertion that quality is rising also.  Is that confirmed quality in this year's freshman class or are we simply seeing more high quality students apply to Ohio as a safety school but end up attending elsewhere?  If it translates into the former, great.  If Ohio can get the top of the applicant pool to actually attend, that would be real substance and not just cheap talk from McDavis, which is all I've seen until now.

I would agree that the goal has to either be improved student quality or increasing size of the student body, not just an increase in applications. You would think one  would follow the other, however. I guess we'll know better in a couple years.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 1:37 PM
Whether the high-quality students are enrolling or applying to OHIO as a safety school, their application fees are the same.
OUcats82
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Posted: 4/16/2014 4:49 PM
University Mall is getting an Old Navy and Foot Locker.  Looks like Athens may have a mall now! 
Last Edited: 4/16/2014 4:50:05 PM by OUcats82
Tyler
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Posted: 4/16/2014 4:54 PM
Must be the Classics and World Religions department getting prospective students eager to apply.

On a serious note, does anyone know which institutions OHIO considers aspirational? I work at Pitt, and we have a short list of schools we consider aspirational and use them for benchmarks and comparisons across all departments.

 
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/16/2014 5:42 PM
OUcats82 wrote:expand_more
The Market on State  (nee University Mall)  is getting an Old Navy and Foot Locker.  Looks like Athens may have a mall now! 

FIFY! 

 
Last Edited: 4/16/2014 5:46:28 PM by OhioCatFan
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 4/16/2014 7:23 PM
I'm guessing as the engineering program starts becoming a namebrand program (and given what it has in its coffers, it had better) Ohio's academic profile is going to improve dramatically.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:53 PM
Tyler wrote:expand_more
Must be the Classics and World Religions department getting prospective students eager to apply.

On a serious note, does anyone know which institutions OHIO considers aspirational? I work at Pitt, and we have a short list of schools we consider aspirational and use them for benchmarks and comparisons across all departments.

 


These are the universities which Ohio currently benchmarks itself against.
www.ohio.edu/instres/univ/peerstudy/index.html

Colorado State
WVU
Oklahoma State
Oregon State
Missouri
New Hampshire  
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Utah

If this exercise is done properly, several of them should be considered "aspirational" in the sense that we lag somewhat behind them in the various criteria but closing the gap is a realistic possibility.  So, given Miami's almost comical self-image, I wondered what their "aspirational" peers might be, and I found this list.

community.miamioh.edu/senate/files/senate/1_Senate_Minutes_02_21_2011.pdf

College of William & Mary 
Dartmouth College 
Emory University 
Georgetown University 
George Washington University 
Northwestern University 
University of North Carolina 
University of Notre Dame 
University of Virginia 
Wake Forest University 
Washington University

What?  No room for Chicago, Stanford, Harvard or Oxford?  That place has to be the most delusional university on the planet.  I'm sure that none of them caught the irony of selecting the most preppy, conservative frat-oriented college in the Ivies though.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 4/16/2014 9:30 PM
OUcats82 wrote:expand_more
University Mall is getting an Old Navy and Foot Locker.  Looks like Athens may have a mall now! 


We used to have a Foot Locker at the mall but it went out of business.  Where did you hear about Old Navy?
Athens
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Posted: 4/16/2014 10:51 PM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
Must be the Classics and World Religions department getting prospective students eager to apply.

On a serious note, does anyone know which institutions OHIO considers aspirational? I work at Pitt, and we have a short list of schools we consider aspirational and use them for benchmarks and comparisons across all departments.

 


These are the universities which Ohio currently benchmarks itself against.
www.ohio.edu/instres/univ/peerstudy/index.html

Colorado State
WVU
Oklahoma State
Oregon State
Missouri
New Hampshire  
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Utah

If this exercise is done properly, several of them should be considered "aspirational" in the sense that we lag somewhat behind them in the various criteria but closing the gap is a realistic possibility.  So, given Miami's almost comical self-image, I wondered what their "aspirational" peers might be, and I found this list.

The list I believe is a true peer list based on shared missions. Ohio is taking those factors from that set of schools as a benchmark for performance. Areas they aren't strong in they try to improve in. No one school is aspirational but some have aspirational characteristics.

 
Athens
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:23 PM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
While some have tried to downplay this every year, this is very huge.
I think Ohio is doing a lot of things right, but I'm also wondering if there are new application techniques like on line applications or something similar. I would think that that's been around a long time, but I don't know that. I hear other schools are going down or is that not right?
Whatever is causing what's going on, it can't be a bad thing,

I may be wrong, but I believe we hired an outside firm to help with recruitment a couple of years ago. Even if that is true, it is still impressive. You're correct that other schools have seen applications and student quality go down, even with new advances in techniques. The OHIO brand is strong right now. 

 


Which schools?  The only one that I've read about with enrollment/application problems is Akron, and that is hardly who we want to be comparing ourselves to.

I haven't seen anything that OSU or Miami are having problems with applications or that student quality is decreasing there, and UC has just passed Ohio for the quality of its freshman classes--something curiously absent from McDavis' speechifying.  

I did some research from an college admissions book from 1994 I have at home and what I found about Ohio and Miami was interesting. Starting with the cost of college. Back in 1994 Miami was 35% more than going to Ohio. Today Miami is about 10% more expensive than Ohio. Then the number of enrolled freshman. Miami in 1994 had 3300 freshman when Ohio had 3200. Today Miami has 3300 freshman while Ohio has 4000. Next the average ACT scores. Miami in 1994 had an average ACT of 26 and Ohio 23. Today Miami averages 26 while Ohio averages 24. From a student profile perspective Ohio has gained ground on Miami while at the same time increasing the freshman class size & a 400% increase in price since 1994. This in a state that was hit hard by NAFTA, 3 dollar a gallon gas and the great recession. All things considered Ohio is doing pretty good and if the freshman class was 3000 it would be harder to get into than Miami. Miami surged forward a little in the early 2000's to an ACT of 27 following the sweet 16 and good football years but since has dropped back.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:46 PM
DelBobcat wrote:expand_more
While some have tried to downplay this every year, this is very huge.
I think Ohio is doing a lot of things right, but I'm also wondering if there are new application techniques like on line applications or something similar. I would think that that's been around a long time, but I don't know that. I hear other schools are going down or is that not right?
Whatever is causing what's going on, it can't be a bad thing,

I may be wrong, but I believe we hired an outside firm to help with recruitment a couple of years ago. Even if that is true, it is still impressive. You're correct that other schools have seen applications and student quality go down, even with new advances in techniques. The OHIO brand is strong right now. 

There is as many out-of-state applicants (7,000) in 2014 as there was in-state applicants in 1994. What is doing it I think is greater visibility. Athletics are up a level and lot has been accomplished on the academic side over the last 20 years. There are so many positives that it drowns out the negatives. Athens has more for a college student to do than almost any city in Ohio. I had a roommate in college comment that the state has good small liberal arts colleges but with nothing going on compared to Athens. Oxford is a super boring town. What makes Athens different is it has unique little neighborhoods. Mill Street has a totally different feel than W.Union St. College Green totally different than the Athletic Mall. Most colleges have an Old Main building and a campus bar in a one stoplight town. 
 
DelBobcat
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:20 AM
OUPride wrote:expand_more

While some have tried to downplay this every year, this is very huge.


I've questioned the contention that the rise in applications is being driven by athletics when there are so many other factors at work such as the baby boom echo, increased recruiting by Ohio outside the state and the trend among high school seniors to apply to many more colleges than they did a generation ago.  I didn't question the fact that Ohio has seen a rise in applications, but so as almost every other Ohio public university in recent years.

And I've been very clear--with statistics from the university's own archives going back to 2006--that the increase in applications is not leading to better freshman classes.  Student quality has essentially been stagnant since 2006.  Yes, we're getting more applications, but it's not translating into getting better students.  



I am curious as to the assertion that quality is rising also.  Is that confirmed quality in this year's freshman class or are we simply seeing more high quality students apply to Ohio as a safety school but end up attending elsewhere?  If it translates into the former, great.  If Ohio can get the top of the applicant pool to actually attend, that would be real substance and not just cheap talk from McDavis, which is all I've seen until now.

 

Maintaining the student quality where it is has been a very conscious decision. The university doesn't want to get away from the aspect of its mission that requires it to be accessible to students in Appalachian Ohio so we're never going to have a student profile that has a 30 median ACT. But while student quality and number of students accepted has remained roughly the same, applications have skyrocketed. That means we have a much lower acceptance rate, which is a good thing. The difference is that students who never could get into OSU always applied there anyway because it was the thing to do, now they're applying to (and getting rejected by) OU as well.
 
On the issue of other public universities, Ohio, OSU, Miami, and Cincinnati have seen increases in applications. I don't know about the other schools but I'd venture to guess they have struggle based on my experiences in Pennsylvania. Here, the schools in the state system (i.e. not PSU, Temple, or Pitt) have struggled mightily with decreased interest. West Chester is the only one that has been able to maintain applications and student quality. More people are applying to top public schools and less are interested in the Bloomburgs and California University of PA's of the world. As this trend continues I'd suspect we'll see the top four or five public universities in Ohio continue to pull away from the pack.

 
OUcats82
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:23 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
University Mall is getting an Old Navy and Foot Locker.  Looks like Athens may have a mall now! 


We used to have a Foot Locker at the mall but it went out of business.  Where did you hear about Old Navy?


Sorry the entire post was supposed to be a joke.  I was trying to play off the ongoing Akron bash about how they have malls. 


No offense intended to our resident Athenians. 
 
Last Edited: 4/17/2014 10:23:33 AM by OUcats82
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:03 AM
OUcats82 wrote:expand_more
University Mall is getting an Old Navy and Foot Locker.  Looks like Athens may have a mall now! 


We used to have a Foot Locker at the mall but it went out of business.  Where did you hear about Old Navy?


Sorry the entire post was supposed to be a joke.  I was trying to play off the ongoing Akron bash about how they have malls. 


No offense intended to our resident Athenians. 
 

Well, there was a rumor a year or so ago that Old Navy was one of several stores that were in active negotiations with the mall owners, so you had me fooled.  I thought you had breaking news! 

 
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:52 AM
Is there any nationwide data of college applications?  It would be insightful to compare out growth with national growth to account for the various factors people have brought up.
DelBobcat
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Posted: 4/18/2014 11:20 AM
I'd also like to see what our four year and six years graduation trends are and what our yield is (number of students attending vs. total applied).  I know that data is out there. Some schools are seeing increases in applications but falling yields and falling graduation rates. I don't think we have that problem but I'm not sure.
DelBobcat
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Posted: 4/18/2014 11:26 AM
Different question, but good data. Freshmen retention rate is down ever so slightly in the past few years but still up overall since the 1970s and compares favorably to other public universities statewide and nationally:






 
DelBobcat
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Posted: 4/18/2014 11:27 AM

 ...and here is graduation rates:

www.ohio.edu/instres/student/univgradrates.html
 

 

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