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Topic: Herd picked 1st in CUSA East
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perimeterpost
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Posted: 3/31/2014 9:34 PM
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Paul Myerberg at USA Today picks Marshall to finish 1st in the CUSA this year. Here's the list of teams they beat out w/the year they transitioned to FBS is in parenthesis-

Marshall (1997)
Western Kentucky (2004)
Florida Atlantic (2004)
Middle Tennessee (2000)
Old Dominion (2013)
UA Birmingham (1996)
Florida International (2005)

Its all of the excitement of playing the bottom of the MAC without the convenience of easy travel. awesome.
Pataskala
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Posted: 3/31/2014 9:47 PM
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CUSA = Sun Belt Lite.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 3/31/2014 11:28 PM
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But, the Marshall fans are excited about winning the league championship and traveling to new vacation spots. You can't have everything.
GoCats105
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Posted: 4/1/2014 9:26 AM
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Is Marshall the piece to the puzzle that MAC football is missing? I'm not sure it is, but it would sure add some extra fire and name recognition to the league.
goherd25
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:10 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
CUSA = Sun Belt Lite.


Still making many times the revenue of the MAC, like it or not. 

And we basically a MAC schedule out of conference, Akron, Miami OH and Ohio. So that would make us defacto MAC champs too kinda. 
L.C.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:08 PM
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goherd25 wrote:expand_more
CUSA = Sun Belt Lite.


Still making many times the revenue of the MAC, like it or not. 

And we basically a MAC schedule out of conference, Akron, Miami OH and Ohio. So that would make us defacto MAC champs too kinda.

IF Akron, Miami, and Ohio were the three top teams in the MAC, and IF you beat them all, that might be true, kind of like, had Ohio beaten ECU to go with earlier victories over NTSU and Marshall, they would have been the defacto CUSA champs.
fiugoldenpanthers1
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:53 PM
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goherd25 wrote:expand_more
CUSA = Sun Belt Lite.


Still making many times the revenue of the MAC, like it or not. 

And we basically a MAC schedule out of conference, Akron, Miami OH and Ohio. So that would make us defacto MAC champs too kinda. 

Wish there was a "Like" button I can press.

 
Last Edited: 4/3/2014 6:54:28 PM by fiugoldenpanthers1
fiugoldenpanthers1
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:56 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Paul Myerberg at USA Today picks Marshall to finish 1st in the CUSA this year. Here's the list of teams they beat out w/the year they transitioned to FBS is in parenthesis-

Marshall (1997)
Western Kentucky (2004)
Florida Atlantic (2004)
Middle Tennessee (2000)
Old Dominion (2013)
UA Birmingham (1996)
Florida International (2005)

Its all of the excitement of playing the bottom of the MAC without the convenience of easy travel. awesome.

You forgot minus the revenue and enhanced media coverage as well.

 
Athens
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:16 PM
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fiugoldenpanthers1 wrote:expand_more
Paul Myerberg at USA Today picks Marshall to finish 1st in the CUSA this year. Here's the list of teams they beat out w/the year they transitioned to FBS is in parenthesis-

Marshall (1997)
Western Kentucky (2004)
Florida Atlantic (2004)
Middle Tennessee (2000)
Old Dominion (2013)
UA Birmingham (1996)
Florida International (2005)

Its all of the excitement of playing the bottom of the MAC without the convenience of easy travel. awesome.

You forgot minus the revenue and enhanced media coverage as well.

And the additional 1 million of travel costs for Marshall playing in CUSA. I get it.
Last Edited: 4/3/2014 7:17:53 PM by Athens
bostonbobcat
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Posted: 4/4/2014 4:43 AM
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Where the hell is CBS Sports Network, and can I get that in HD? Too often the answer is no. It is easier to find ESPN3 than CBSSN. But you guys keep telling yourselves Nomad-USA is a better fit.
Pataskala
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Posted: 4/4/2014 7:05 AM
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And don't forget the deep tradition of rivalries that have developed through the years.  For league games, the jerseys now read "Hello.  My name is ___."
bobcat695
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Posted: 4/4/2014 8:33 AM
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We can rip on Marshall all day long for making the move, but it looks pretty pathetic of us.  CUSA has a much more lucrative TV deal than the MAC, as well as better bowl tie-ins.  The MAC tv package is a joke, especially for basketball.  I have CBS Sports Network in HD on my basic cable system.  I can't even get Watch ESPN, which is what you need to watch ESPN3 on a mobile device.  In order to watch the grainy ESPN3 feed on my tv, I had to buy Chromecast and use a laptop.  Even then, it's almost unwatchable.  Also, the only football coverage we get is mid-week MACtion.  I can turn on a CUSA football game somewhere every Saturday. 

I agree about CUSA looking a lot like the Sun Belt.  The teams are less than impressive, especially in the East.  But how is that any different than the MAC?  I love being able to travel to away games by car.  That is the only advantage the MAC has right now. 
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Posted: 4/4/2014 8:42 AM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
We can rip on Marshall all day long for making the move, but it looks pretty pathetic of us. CUSA has a much more lucrative TV deal than the MAC, as well as better bowl tie-ins. The MAC tv package is a joke, especially for basketball. I have CBS Sports Network in HD on my basic cable system. I can't even get Watch ESPN, which is what you need to watch ESPN3 on a mobile device. In order to watch the grainy ESPN3 feed on my tv, I had to buy Chromecast and use a laptop. Even then, it's almost unwatchable. Also, the only football coverage we get is mid-week MACtion. I can turn on a CUSA football game somewhere every Saturday.

I agree about CUSA looking a lot like the Sun Belt. The teams are less than impressive, especially in the East. But how is that any different than the MAC? I love being able to travel to away games by car. That is the only advantage the MAC has right now.
Being able to follow is a huge advantage, one schools should never lose.
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 4/4/2014 12:29 PM
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fiugoldenpanthers1 wrote:expand_more
Paul Myerberg at USA Today picks Marshall to finish 1st in the CUSA this year. Here's the list of teams they beat out w/the year they transitioned to FBS is in parenthesis-

Marshall (1997)
Western Kentucky (2004)
Florida Atlantic (2004)
Middle Tennessee (2000)
Old Dominion (2013)
UA Birmingham (1996)
Florida International (2005)

Its all of the excitement of playing the bottom of the MAC without the convenience of easy travel. awesome.

You forgot minus the revenue and enhanced media coverage as well.

 

An honest question, though, is for how much longer? Most of these media contracts and extra money came as a result of the league that Conference USA used to be.

 
L.C.
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Posted: 4/4/2014 2:08 PM
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UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
An honest question, though, is for how much longer? Most of these media contracts and extra money came as a result of the league that Conference USA used to be.

I agree that that is a fair question. The current CUSA teams have much less nationwide fan appeal than the CUSA teams that moved up. There just isn't much difference anymore between CUSA, Sunbelt, and MAC.

If you look at Sagarin ratings for last year:
CUSA-West - 60.49
Sunbelt - 59.92
Mac-West 58.82
CUSA-East 57.13
MAC-East-56.11
MAC-East w/o UMass who is leaving - 58.55

Overall, CUSA averages 58.81. With U.Mass gone, the overall MAC average is 58.69. You can't get much closer than that. Of course, how they are today may not be how they will be in a few years. With that in mind, let's look at recruiting. Per Scout.com, for 2014 the average rating for CUSA teams was 657, while the average rating for MAC teams was 654. Again, you can't get much closer than that.

I suspect that over time, unless the CUSA pulls ahead in terms of team quality, the TV contracts and bowl contracts will become more equal between the two conferences. Time will tell, though. CUSA took a huge hit in the reorganization frenzy, and maybe they will recover to be better than the MAC, maybe not..
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Posted: 4/4/2014 9:14 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
An honest question, though, is for how much longer? Most of these media contracts and extra money came as a result of the league that Conference USA used to be.

I agree that that is a fair question. The current CUSA teams have much less nationwide fan appeal than the CUSA teams that moved up. There just isn't much difference anymore between CUSA, Sunbelt, and MAC.

If you look at Sagarin ratings for last year:
CUSA-West - 60.49
Sunbelt - 59.92
Mac-West 58.82
CUSA-East 57.13
MAC-East-56.11
MAC-East w/o UMass who is leaving - 58.55

Overall, CUSA averages 58.81. With U.Mass gone, the overall MAC average is 58.69. You can't get much closer than that. Of course, how they are today may not be how they will be in a few years. With that in mind, let's look at recruiting. Per Scout.com, for 2014 the average rating for CUSA teams was 657, while the average rating for MAC teams was 654. Again, you can't get much closer than that.

I suspect that over time, unless the CUSA pulls ahead in terms of team quality, the TV contracts and bowl contracts will become more equal between the two conferences. Time will tell, though. CUSA took a huge hit in the reorganization frenzy, and maybe they will recover to be better than the MAC, maybe not..


The big thing that drove CUSA's TV contract was the markets they were in.  They had the top college teams in Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth and Memphis, and had a presence at least in Nawlins and Orlando.  Now they have bupkis.  (FAU and FIU are in the Miami area but at best they're the sixth and seventh teams of interest down there.)  CBS may want to restructure the deal.
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Posted: 4/4/2014 11:55 PM
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Also, when was the last time that a C-USA team went to the Orange Bowl?  

As you guys know, I root for Marshall in the fall as my second favorite team.  But, I must admit this attitude that C-USA is a better conference is just not borne out by the facts.  And, as had been said, that money difference is shrinking and I personally expect when the new MAC TV deal is completed that it will surpass the next C-USA deal.  

BTW, does anyone know what OHIO's cut was of the Orange Bowl money?  At the time I heard so many different figures about how the money was going to be split up that I didn't know who to believe.  The last thing I heard was that NIU got half and the rest was split between the other member schools.  

 
Last Edited: 4/4/2014 11:56:37 PM by OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/15/2014 11:28 AM
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MAC and CUSA are extremely different in types of programs each has.

MAC has teams with small fanbases (many of which have a second big time team they follow) that are heavily funded by non athletic revenue.  The teams in the MAC are at the bottom of the food chain and they are fine with that.  I never hear of any of the MAC schools considering moving up a conference.

CUSA is full of teams that have dreams of growing.  Charlotte, ODU, FAU, and FIU may not be strong programs right now, but they have huge potential.  With their markets, money, and recruiting areas, they will improve by leaps and bounds in the next 10 years.  It wasn't long ago that UCF was a horrible team with the nation's longest losing streak.  CUSA is always been the proving grounds for teams that want to go the Big East (now AAC).

On the field, I would argue that the MAC is better than CUSA right now.  But I don't see the MAC keeping up for long.  With media money, bowl opportunities, not having to play on weeknights, CUSA is much better for growing a program.

Best of luck this fall in Huntington, you're going to need it.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 11:57 AM
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I think penn2moss makes some very good points.  Good post.

MAC is probably better than CUSA on the field right now, but the long term potential of these programs favors CUSA. 

There are a few MAC fan bases that are decent...but two thirds of the league has small fan bases.

Why is it that the MAC is hurt so much by secondary following of other major programs, but that doesn't seem to hurt many of the CUSA teams...yet they are in the same footprint with the SEC, ACC, etc?
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 4/15/2014 12:01 PM
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What a complete myth.

FAU's student fees highest in the state.

Student fees subsidize 83% of FIU's budget!

Student fees fund $26 million of ODU's athletic budget.

Charlotte? Yep. Them, too.

That took me 3:21 to dispel on google. Herd fans are going to need their own snopes page.
GoCats105
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Posted: 4/15/2014 12:21 PM
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Not to mention FIU is in the middle of Miami, FL. FIU is to The U as EMU is to Michigan.

FAU and FIU are competing against Miami, FSU, Florida, USF and the aforementioned UCF for fans. How is that better than the MAC? At least Ohio, Miami, Toledo, BG, Akron and Kent are all fighting each other and one common goal (OSU). Good luck with that Panthers and Owls.

And ODU fans don't follow other teams with Va. Tech and Virginia in the state? Ok.

And Charlotte falls in the middle of ACC country surrounded by Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Wake Forest and ECU. What am I missing here?
Last Edited: 4/15/2014 12:24:38 PM by GoCats105
GoCats105
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Posted: 4/15/2014 12:29 PM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Why is it that the MAC is hurt so much by secondary following of other major programs, but that doesn't seem to hurt many of the CUSA teams...yet they are in the same footprint with the SEC, ACC, etc?


I'll agree in a sense that the MAC competes against better major programs for fans and dollars than CUSA. The MAC is surrounded by Ohio State, Penn State, Notre Dame, Michigan, Purdue, Michigan State, Pitt, etc.

In my post above I describe Charlotte being surrounded by ACC schools. From a numbers perspective it looks like a no-win situation, but most of those schools are basketball-centric. FIU and FAU however, is a different story with Florida, FSU and Miami.

You could also argue that CUSA is more committed to football as a whole than the MAC.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 2:14 PM
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Some good points here. I think it's true that the MAC is currently the stronger of the two conferences on the field. I also think it's open for discussion which will be the stronger in the future. I would agree that the fanbase of the various teams will have a lot to do with their upside potential. I also agree that it isn't a given that a school like FIU will have a stronger fanbase than, say, EMU, since both are in the shadows of a bigger institution. What does help FIU is that Miami is a strong city, while Detroit has been dying.

One thing that is also true, but which penn2moss seems either unaware of, or unwilling to acknowledge is that the MAC changed significantly when mid-week MACtion began about 2009. Since then the entire conference has done better recruiting, and that in turn has been reflected in results. The MAC no longer has merely 1-2 bowl teams, they often have 4-5, and they are not always bowl losers; they now often win. The MAC in the Marshall days was a bad conference, with 1-2 decent teams, and a lot of bad ones, whereas today there are many competitive teams, and few really bad ones.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 3:06 PM
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Mike Coleman wrote:expand_more
What a complete myth.

FAU's student fees highest in the state.

Student fees subsidize 83% of FIU's budget!

Student fees fund $26 million of ODU's athletic budget.

Charlotte? Yep. Them, too.

That took me 3:21 to dispel on google. Herd fans are going to need their own snopes page.



These programs just started, of course they have to get their money from somewhere.  The difference is, they have the population to close that gap through ticket sales, donations, and media deals.


They have opportunities that Athens and Huntington will never have.
C Money
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Posted: 4/15/2014 4:31 PM
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Didn't one of our Temple friends (I won't mention which one, b/c fairytales taught me that evil gnomes appear if you speak their name) try to convince us, when they were averaging attendance of something like 75% of what we were, that getting a big crowd in a large metro area is actually MORE difficult than in Athens? B/c Philly has malls or something like that.
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