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Topic: MAC agrees to 13-yr TV deal with ESPN
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L.C.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:19 PM
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the123kid wrote:expand_more
....but MTSU is a top tier mid major in major market.....

Murfreesboro has a population of 117,000, and most certainly is not a major market. While they are close to Nashville, they are certainly not in Nashville, any more than Athens is in Columbus. OK, Athens is 75 miles from Columbus, and Murfreesboro is only 35 miles from Nashville, but socially Murfreesboro is very distinct from Nashville. People in Nashville do not think of MTSU as a Nashville team. At best MTSU is the #4 team in the state, behind Tennessee, Vanderbilt, and Memphis.
Their average attendance also belies the claim that they are top tier:
18,407 in 2011
17,738 in 2012
21,171 in 2013.

When it comes to basketball, the situation for MTSU is even worse when trying to claim to be in a major market, because Nashville already has two Division I teams in town, with Vanderbilt and Belmont.

I'm sorry, but I do not see MTSU as a "top tier mid major". I see them as just another directional university.
Last Edited: 8/19/2014 1:21:47 PM by L.C.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:26 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
....but MTSU is a top tier mid major in major market.....

Murfreesboro has a population of 117,000, and most certainly is not a major market. While they are close to Nashville, they are certainly not in Nashville, any more than Athens is in Columbus. OK, Athens is 75 miles from Columbus, and Murfreesboro is only 35 miles from Nashville, but socially Murfreesboro is very distinct from Nashville. People in Nashville do not think of MTSU as a Nashville team. At best MTSU is the #4 team in the state, behind Tennessee, Vanderbilt, and Memphis.
Their average attendance also belies the claim that they are top tier:
18,407 in 2011
17,738 in 2012
21,171 in 2013.

When it comes to basketball, the situation for MTSU is even worse when trying to claim to be in a major market, because Nashville already has two Division I teams in town, with Vanderbilt and Belmont.

I'm sorry, but I do not see MTSU as a "top tier mid major". I see them as just another directional university.

For Media Purposes, it is in the Nashville Market.  It is also close enough to be a glorified suburb.  I'll agree there is certainly a distinction between Nashville and Murfreesboro, but not from a media standpoint.  



 
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:42 PM
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It's easy to badmouth the Mothership, as dan patrick calls it.  And I guess no matter how much money is coming in from this new deal, some would complain.

But I'll give 'em an attaboy for this contract.  Close to a 6-fold increase in money (I'm sure the fact that its locked in for 13 years made ESPN more willing to pony up big bucks).  A commitment to televise a greater number of sports and to develop on campus broadcast streaming facilities.  Wider distribution of streamed broadcasts.

Even for ESPN, this is a significant commitment.   I'm looking forward to seeing volleyball from the Convo! 
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:04 PM
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C Money wrote:expand_more
A thought: Now that we're full-on in bed with ESPN with basically "SEC-Network lite," maybe maybe maybe maybe MAYBE.....we can get College Gameday at a MAC school....QUITE POSSIBLY even at Peden????

A man needs a dream....and that would be sweet.
That would be awesome. I think the best chance at that would be a game against a top MAC school on Halloween weekend. Set up the booth on court street and block it off. It would be greatest thing to ever happen.
L.C.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:21 PM
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the123kid wrote:expand_more
For Media Purposes, it is in the Nashville Market.  It is also close enough to be a glorified suburb.  I'll agree there is certainly a distinction between Nashville and Murfreesboro, but not from a media standpoint.

Ypsilanti is exactly the same distance from Detroit that Murfreesboro is from Nashville. Does that make EMU a "top tier mid-Major"? I would argue no, because being close to a media market does not mean that you have any fans in that media market, especially when, like MTSU and EMU, you are not the big fish in that pond.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:54 PM
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the123kid wrote:expand_more
Per Arkley's Twitter, new deal is worth over $100M over 13 years. Schools go from getting $90K per year to $650K.


That's a nice improvement. Still not as good as CUSA or MWC.

13 years seems like a long, long time however.

Hey, at least ESPN thinks there will still be an audience for non-big 5 football.


If our deal is really only ahalf of CUSA and MWC, and is locked in for 13 years, every person in the front office should be fired. We're going to prostitute ourselves on weeknights to make half the money as a conference with FIU, FAU, ODU and MTSU? Seriously? Oh but look, "digital streaming. ooooh" Not pleased.


A few points here on the two deals....

- CUSA deal is with Fox for primary and CBS for secondary and it pays the conference about 15 million per year. Clearly less than we are getting paid, but when you look at the media markets....it makes some sense. The MAC is very regional, and CUSA still has the name appeal of being bigger than the MAC.
- ESPN has much more name draw than Fox or CBS. ESPN also takes care of their schools via SportsCenter. When you are casually looking for sports...where do you go? Espn.
- Digital is the trend of the future and it certainly gives the MAC great exposure throughout the year here.
- We also don't know what ability the schools may have to produce shoulder programming(Coach Shows, Weekly Recaps). My guess is OU will announce a deeper partnership with Evan Shaw and crew up the hill.
- Long Term is the safe bet. Who knows what will happen in 5 years when the CUSA deal is up? With this deal, the growth can be steady to develop the digital side of things.
- FIU and FAU are garbage, but MTSU is a top tier mid major in major market. ODU is on the rise and has a strong Basketball history.

In a nutshell, your argument is way off base. CUSA is still viewed as a superior conference, Weeknights can be a good thing, and digital streaming is the future.

- talk about media markets is a red herring when you're talking about G5 teams. MACtion is a nationwide market, people don't tune in to MACtion because they live in a certain market near one of the teams playing, they tune in because its Tuesday night and they want to watch college football. I refuse to believe MTSU being near Nashville is more valuable to a network than NIU playing Toledo on a Wednesday night.
- Which network the other conferences have signed with is irrelevant, what is relevant is what their rates say about their market value compared to ours. ESPN locked us up for 13 years at half of what other networks are offering similar conferences today.
- "Digital is the trend of the future" ..as if this deal somehow gives the MAC exclusive access to digital broadcasts that the others won't have. Its like saying, but our broadcasts will be in Technicolor!
- Long term is not a safe bet, its a cowards bet. If the deal puts us at half of CUSA and MWC today where will we be 13 years from now? I'll tell you where, patting ourselves on the back because our new deal is more than the old one, but still miles behind everyone else. Same as today.
- And please do not try to sell me on the value of those garbage CUSA teams being DOUBLE the value of schools like Ohio, NIU, and Toledo. Just don't.

Based on numbers I've seen here's the annual TV revenue for the G5 as of today-
$24m AAC
$18m MWC
$16m CUSA
$8m MAC
$1m SBC

that is absurd. And what is worse is the conferences above us are open for renewal in the next few years and their terms won't be going down, that's for sure. Meanwhile we're trapped at less than half of our PEERS for the next 13 years.

But women's lacrosse will get to play a game on ESPN News one time so I guess its a good deal after all.
Last Edited: 8/19/2014 3:59:36 PM by perimeterpost
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Posted: 8/19/2014 6:22 PM
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Quote:expand_more
- talk about media markets is a red herring when you're talking about G5 teams. MACtion is a nationwide market, people don't tune in to MACtion because they live in a certain market near one of the teams playing, they tune in because its Tuesday night and they want to watch college football. I refuse to believe MTSU being near Nashville is more valuable to a network than NIU playing Toledo on a Wednesday night.
- Which network the other conferences have signed with is irrelevant, what is relevant is what their rates say about their market value compared to ours. ESPN locked us up for 13 years at half of what other networks are offering similar conferences today.
- "Digital is the trend of the future" ..as if this deal somehow gives the MAC exclusive access to digital broadcasts that the others won't have. Its like saying, but our broadcasts will be in Technicolor!
- Long term is not a safe bet, its a cowards bet. If the deal puts us at half of CUSA and MWC today where will we be 13 years from now? I'll tell you where, patting ourselves on the back because our new deal is more than the old one, but still miles behind everyone else. Same as today.
- And please do not try to sell me on the value of those garbage CUSA teams being DOUBLE the value of schools like Ohio, NIU, and Toledo. Just don't.

Based on numbers I've seen here's the annual TV revenue for the G5 as of today-
$24m AAC
$18m MWC
$16m CUSA
$8m MAC
$1m SBC

that is absurd. And what is worse is the conferences above us are open for renewal in the next few years and their terms won't be going down, that's for sure. Meanwhile we're trapped at less than half of our PEERS for the next 13 years.

But women's lacrosse will get to play a game on ESPN News one time so I guess its a good deal after all.

-  There is inherent value in being on ESPN rather than on some of these other networks.  Look at the number of homes that have ESPN, ESPN 2, ESPN U, ETC.  CUSA is essentially taking money for less exposure by being on those channels.  How many people tune into CBS Sports for their daily highlights?
- MWC and AAC are significantly better conferences than the MAC.  CUSA is interesting.  Traditionally it was a much better conference than the MAC, so I think it still has some of that prestige with it.  It also has a few programs that are traditionally much better football schools(UAB, Marshall, Southern Miss).  
-  CUSA will not have access to the ESPN 3 digital platform that the MAC does.  There is huge upside and potential here.
-  Basketball:  Wait to see what this does for basketball game broadcasts for the MAC.  MAC games on ESPN family of networks for basketball is a big step.

Using your logic, do you think the MAC is 8 times better than the Sunbelt?
 
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Posted: 8/19/2014 6:53 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Per Arkley's Twitter, new deal is worth over $100M over 13 years. Schools go from getting $90K per year to $650K.


That's a nice improvement. Still not as good as CUSA or MWC. 

13 years seems like a long, long time however.

Hey, at least ESPN thinks there will still be an audience for non-big 5 football.


If our deal is really only ahalf of CUSA and MWC, and is locked in for 13 years, every person in the front office should be fired. We're going to prostitute ourselves on weeknights to make half the money as a conference with FIU, FAU, ODU and MTSU? Seriously? Oh but look, "digital streaming. ooooh" Not pleased.

I disagree, I am very pleased with this deal. FIU, FAU, ODU and MTSU are all playing on second rate networks. We are playing on the worldwide leader.

It seems like you did a good job researching the value of conference TV deals. Where I disagree is on the value of being on ESPN.

I don't particularly like ESPN but I cannot deny they are clear and away the #1 in sports. It isn't even close. It is probably a monopoly.
I think it is wise for the MAC to tie its boat to ESPN. Yeah, we had to take a discount pay rate to do it, but in return we get placement on the biggest network.
College sports IS changing and I think getting with ESPN is a good way to keep us relevant. As others have mentioned, the potential placement on their network of families is amazing. It isn't just MACtion weekday games. Football right now is gold. These networks want content for their channels. ESPN will be showing the MAC. That is really, really, really good for us.

5 years ago, I was NOT a fan of MACtion. I'm a full convert. The exposure for OHIO has been beyond good. It has been GREAT. The times aren't good for working folks (i am a season ticket holder living in NEO, that is me) but for students it is ideal. Athens/Peden is the PERFECT MACtion setup. The students at OHIO will come out on a Wednesday and it'll look better than any other MAC school when they do. We just need to limit camera shots of the tower side.

perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
- talk about media markets is a red herring when you're talking about G5 teams. MACtion is a nationwide market, people don't tune in to MACtion because they live in a certain market near one of the teams playing, they tune in because its Tuesday night and they want to watch college football. I refuse to believe MTSU being near Nashville is more valuable to a network than NIU playing Toledo on a Wednesday night.


Using what you said against you... MACtion is a NATIONWIDE market. People tune in because this country is football crazed and they see OHIO. That is good.

How much is the exposure of NIU playing OHIO in the blackout game worth to OHIO. I would argue a lot. And I would argue it is a LOT higher because it is on ESPN and not some second rate network directionals in the south are playing on.


Sidenote: It blows my mind to think about the fact the Disney (DIS) owns ABC and ESPN and how many other channels... People talk about all various companies who could steal billions from cable companies providing strictly online content to people trying to cut the cord and I think about how ESPN is really the only thing stopping me to prevent cutting the cord.
Seems to me Disney is holding pocket aces.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 7:55 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Per Arkley's Twitter, new deal is worth over $100M over 13 years. Schools go from getting $90K per year to $650K.


That's a nice improvement. Still not as good as CUSA or MWC.

13 years seems like a long, long time however.

Hey, at least ESPN thinks there will still be an audience for non-big 5 football.


If our deal is really only ahalf of CUSA and MWC, and is locked in for 13 years, every person in the front office should be fired. We're going to prostitute ourselves on weeknights to make half the money as a conference with FIU, FAU, ODU and MTSU? Seriously? Oh but look, "digital streaming. ooooh" Not pleased.


A few points here on the two deals....

- CUSA deal is with Fox for primary and CBS for secondary and it pays the conference about 15 million per year. Clearly less than we are getting paid, but when you look at the media markets....it makes some sense. The MAC is very regional, and CUSA still has the name appeal of being bigger than the MAC.
- ESPN has much more name draw than Fox or CBS. ESPN also takes care of their schools via SportsCenter. When you are casually looking for sports...where do you go? Espn.
- Digital is the trend of the future and it certainly gives the MAC great exposure throughout the year here.
- We also don't know what ability the schools may have to produce shoulder programming(Coach Shows, Weekly Recaps). My guess is OU will announce a deeper partnership with Evan Shaw and crew up the hill.
- Long Term is the safe bet. Who knows what will happen in 5 years when the CUSA deal is up? With this deal, the growth can be steady to develop the digital side of things.
- FIU and FAU are garbage, but MTSU is a top tier mid major in major market. ODU is on the rise and has a strong Basketball history.

In a nutshell, your argument is way off base. CUSA is still viewed as a superior conference, Weeknights can be a good thing, and digital streaming is the future.

- talk about media markets is a red herring when you're talking about G5 teams. MACtion is a nationwide market, people don't tune in to MACtion because they live in a certain market near one of the teams playing, they tune in because its Tuesday night and they want to watch college football. I refuse to believe MTSU being near Nashville is more valuable to a network than NIU playing Toledo on a Wednesday night.
- Which network the other conferences have signed with is irrelevant, what is relevant is what their rates say about their market value compared to ours. ESPN locked us up for 13 years at half of what other networks are offering similar conferences today.
- "Digital is the trend of the future" ..as if this deal somehow gives the MAC exclusive access to digital broadcasts that the others won't have. Its like saying, but our broadcasts will be in Technicolor!
- Long term is not a safe bet, its a cowards bet. If the deal puts us at half of CUSA and MWC today where will we be 13 years from now? I'll tell you where, patting ourselves on the back because our new deal is more than the old one, but still miles behind everyone else. Same as today.
- And please do not try to sell me on the value of those garbage CUSA teams being DOUBLE the value of schools like Ohio, NIU, and Toledo. Just don't.

Based on numbers I've seen here's the annual TV revenue for the G5 as of today-
$24m AAC
$18m MWC
$16m CUSA
$8m MAC
$1m SBC

that is absurd. And what is worse is the conferences above us are open for renewal in the next few years and their terms won't be going down, that's for sure. Meanwhile we're trapped at less than half of our PEERS for the next 13 years.

But women's lacrosse will get to play a game on ESPN News one time so I guess its a good deal after all.

I am the last person in the world to defend MAC leadership. I mean, if nothing else, this deal proves how totally screwed they got on the existing deal. I also don't like the 13 years and would hope there are escalators or out clauses.

But let's compare it to the MWC. This is the article I'm using for my numbers (http://blogs.idahostatesman.com/boise-state-football-guaranteed-three-games-national-tv-bonus-games/) and it matches your $18M total. Basically, they're getting $12M from CBS and $6M from ESPN. In looking at the article, seems like both networks get similar rights and they alternate in picking games. Therefore, CBS has to pay about a 100% premium over ESPN in order to get conferences to sign on. The ESPN contract seems to be driven primarily by Boise St. football and revenues aren't shared evenly.

So if CUSA gets $16M from being in the witness protection program (I kid, non-ESPN networks) that is about 100% premium compared to the MAC contract. I'm also not sure that CUSA has had to negotiate a TV deal post-raid (everyone leaving for Big East/AAC).
 
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Posted: 8/20/2014 12:22 AM
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I'm hearing things like "inherent value", "exposure", "upside", "potential", and other non specific terms to justify this deal. But I'm looking at it in very specific, very narrow terms-

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Posted: 8/20/2014 12:50 AM
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I find it amusing that one of the main points of argument is that cusa wont be able to watch their games on the internet (espn3) lol. 



But seriously. This is good for the MAC. Over Half a million more in the coffers is not a bad deal at all. Tuesday and Wednesday night game arguments are made by those that are simply silly. We play on thursdays and fridays sometimes. Same difference. 



Now, saying cbs sports and fs1 isnt "real national tv" also isnt fair. It is national exposure and fs1 has their own "sportscenter" now. Remember, about 15 yrs ago espn sportscenter was fledgling as well. FS1 is nice. 



 
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Posted: 8/20/2014 11:10 AM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
I'm hearing things like "inherent value", "exposure", "upside", "potential", and other non specific terms to justify this deal. But I'm looking at it in very specific, very narrow terms-


I'm all for generating cash on TV deals that can be used to improve our program, however I think limiting your evaluation of TV deals like this to the final dollar amount listed for the contract value is massively oversimplifying the matter. 
Cash is a HUGE factor in these deals, but exposure is also extremely valuable to athletic programs and this program in particular. When you start putting a $0 value on the exposure of OHIO on ESPN, your argument falls in the grouping of Steve Hays. I simply do not believe that our athletic department's end value to this University is as simple as the cash we bring in or spend.

It is "economic value" versus "accounting value."
We could argue for years on how to quantify the value of exposure to the program. Where I refuse to listen to people is when they try to argue that there isn't value to seeing OHIO playing on ESPN. OHIO on ESPN is worth $ to the athletic department and the entire University.

...




I will add, I think this deal is much better for OHIO than many other MAC schools. We are one of the few MAC schools that actually looks good on TV midweek in November. I think midweek exposure has value for pretty much everyone in the MAC, but I think it is much higher for our program. For some other programs, taking the cash may have been the better deal. I think passing on the cash and focusing on growth is better for OHIO.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 11:38 AM
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Yes we get less money but from an advertising standpoint this is much better than the CUSA deal. When you go to watch sports you go to espn. Especially on weeknights. There's a reason companies pay a ton of money for the super bowl. Because people watch it. exposure can be just as valuable as cash especially for the MAC, a small conference most people no nothing about.
Last Edited: 8/20/2014 6:07:31 PM by TheBobcatBandit
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Posted: 8/20/2014 12:47 PM
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Posted: 8/20/2014 12:52 PM
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After reading the Hustle Belt Article a few key points....

- Security.  That is the key to this deal.  We have a strong strategic partner for the long haul.
- Second Tier Rights-  There is the potential to increase the value of this deal through secondary rights holders.  With the exposure on ESPN, this will only increase the value.  It also means TWC won't have to foot production bills, so it will be more willing to pick up games.  Schools will foot the bill, but they already did before in some cases, so there isn't a change here.
- Interesting to see that the OU Sweet 16 run was a kick starter for this...

 
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Posted: 8/20/2014 12:57 PM
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I am not sure how smart it was to get rid of UMASS  football, that market would have appealed to ESPN. It also came with a  bunch of basketball games that have more appeal than 90% of current MAC games.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 1:29 PM
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JerseyArnie wrote:expand_more
I am not sure how smart it was to get rid of UMASS football, that market would have appealed to ESPN. It also came with a bunch of basketball games that have more appeal than 90% of current MAC games.
the MAC didn't get rid of UMass, UMass opted to leave when invited for full membership. The value of their bball program is greatly over stated. UMass had an incredible run with Calipari from '92-'98 but before then had never been to the tournament and since then have only been back once, and that was this year. When you remove UMass from the A10 they are a very pedestrian MAC bball program.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 2:48 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
I am not sure how smart it was to get rid of UMASS football, that market would have appealed to ESPN. It also came with a bunch of basketball games that have more appeal than 90% of current MAC games.


the MAC didn't get rid of UMass, UMass opted to leave when invited for full membership. The value of their bball program is greatly over stated. UMass had an incredible run with Calipari from '92-'98 but before then had never been to the tournament and since then have only been back once, and that was this year. When you remove UMass from the A10 they are a very pedestrian MAC bball program.



Umass would have added a large TV market share (most if not all of Massachusetts) which is really the issue more than whether they are a great program or not.  No?

Also, UMass beat up the MAC regularly in basketball the past few years.  They went 4-0 vs MAC with 3 double digit wins last year.  They would immediately become the top program if they joined for hoops.

Anyway, the cash from the new TV deal will help MAC schools try to keep up with the Big 5 in terms of paying athletes.
Last Edited: 8/20/2014 2:48:38 PM by Ohio69
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Posted: 8/20/2014 3:27 PM
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JerseyArnie wrote:expand_more
I am not sure how smart it was to get rid of UMASS  football, that market would have appealed to ESPN. It also came with a  bunch of basketball games that have more appeal than 90% of current MAC games.

UMass would never have been around long anyway. Like schools like Temple and USF, they hoped to move on quickly to some other conference.
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Posted: 8/21/2014 12:21 AM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
UMass had an incredible run with Calipari from '92-'98


No, they didn't.- NCAA
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Posted: 8/21/2014 1:09 AM
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Only on BA do we debate the relative merits of Murfreesboro, TN as a major media market...
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