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Topic: MAC supports paying full cost of attendance
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Alan Swank
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Posted: 10/30/2014 7:59 PM
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catfan28 wrote:expand_more
NIU isn't going to slip quietly into mid-major obscurity:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-niu-athl...
That is perhaps the DUMBEST thing I've seen in a while. First off, where in the world are they getting the funding for that? A quick check of the numbers shows they generate less than $1M annually in fundraising. They will never get anywhere close to the goal.

Secondly, why expand the stadium to 42K??? They average 11K right now. Talk about a money pit.

Their AD will be gone by next year and the plans go up in smoke. Complete house of cards. I'd rather take Jim Schaus and our stability any day.
House of cards? What do you think student fees are and forced giving to get your tower club seats. As soon as NIU figures out that scheme, they'll have money too.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 10/30/2014 8:00 PM
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The Optimist wrote:expand_more
I'm not even going to address basketball spending. We have significantly upped our spending in men's hoops. We are on a COMPLETELY different level of spending than the rest of the MAC. Literally, 1 million higher than anyone else. We would fit in fine in the AAC.
Numbers, please.
http://www.bbstate.com/info/teams-hoopsbudget

$8,457,959 Memphis (AMER)
$7,293,895 Connecticut (AMER)
$6,582,998 Southern Methodist (AMER)
$6,172,290 Cincinnati (AMER)
$4,399,051 South Florida (AMER)
$4,125,712 Temple (AMER)
$3,920,631 Tulsa (AMER)
$3,222,448 Ohio (MAC) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
$2,849,058 Tulane (AMER)
$2,843,388 Central Florida (AMER)
$2,598,898 Houston (AMER)
$2,465,163 East Carolina (AMER)
$2,142,779 Buffalo (MAC)
$2,051,314 Akron (MAC)
$1,900,435 Miami (Oh.) (MAC)
$1,867,684 Western Michigan (MAC)
$1,855,599 Kent State (MAC)
$1,847,789 Toledo (MAC)
$1,666,104 Central Michigan (MAC)
$1,608,150 Eastern Michigan (MAC)
$1,561,611 Ball State (MAC)
$1,460,613 Bowling Green (MAC)
$1,447,289 Northern Illinois (MAC)
Big deal. These are expenses. Where is the money at OU to support this continued deficit spending?
JSF
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Posted: 10/30/2014 9:03 PM
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We'd fit in fine with the dregs in the AAC, but we're a far sight from the upper third of the conference. I realize we'd probably get more money if we moved there, but not enough to really close the gap. And I imagine Temple is going to be moving up that list.
GoCats105
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Posted: 10/31/2014 7:30 AM
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The Optimist wrote:expand_more
I'm not even going to address basketball spending. We have significantly upped our spending in men's hoops. We are on a COMPLETELY different level of spending than the rest of the MAC. Literally, 1 million higher than anyone else. We would fit in fine in the AAC.
Numbers, please.
http://www.bbstate.com/info/teams-hoopsbudget

$8,457,959 Memphis (AMER)
$7,293,895 Connecticut (AMER)
$6,582,998 Southern Methodist (AMER)
$6,172,290 Cincinnati (AMER)
$4,399,051 South Florida (AMER)
$4,125,712 Temple (AMER)
$3,920,631 Tulsa (AMER)
$3,222,448 Ohio (MAC) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
$2,849,058 Tulane (AMER)
$2,843,388 Central Florida (AMER)
$2,598,898 Houston (AMER)
$2,465,163 East Carolina (AMER)
$2,142,779 Buffalo (MAC)
$2,051,314 Akron (MAC)
$1,900,435 Miami (Oh.) (MAC)
$1,867,684 Western Michigan (MAC)
$1,855,599 Kent State (MAC)
$1,847,789 Toledo (MAC)
$1,666,104 Central Michigan (MAC)
$1,608,150 Eastern Michigan (MAC)
$1,561,611 Ball State (MAC)
$1,460,613 Bowling Green (MAC)
$1,447,289 Northern Illinois (MAC)
Hard to believe that UCF and Houston are so low on that list. Talk about getting the bang for your buck: UCF has either the 2nd or 3rd largest student enrollment in the country (Depending on the source, they flip-flop with Ohio State. Arizona State is #1). If they are using student fees to fund athletics, they are doing a helluva job with their football program.
D.A.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:28 AM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=C Money]NIU isn't going to slip quietly into mid-major obscurity:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-niu-athl...
...forced giving to get your tower club seats...
That awkward moment every Spring when I wake up with Jim Schaus' Colt 45 in my mouth and him saying "Give me your donation or else".
Last Edited: 10/31/2014 10:29:23 AM by D.A.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:31 AM
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D.A. wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=C Money]NIU isn't going to slip quietly into mid-major obscurity:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-niu-athl...
...forced giving to get your tower club seats...
That awkward moment every Spring when I wake up with Jim Schaus' Colt 45 in my mouth and him saying "Give me your donation or else".
I don't think Jim drinks.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:34 AM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
NIU isn't going to slip quietly into mid-major obscurity:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-niu-athl...
That is perhaps the DUMBEST thing I've seen in a while. First off, where in the world are they getting the funding for that? A quick check of the numbers shows they generate less than $1M annually in fundraising. They will never get anywhere close to the goal.

Secondly, why expand the stadium to 42K??? They average 11K right now. Talk about a money pit.

Their AD will be gone by next year and the plans go up in smoke. Complete house of cards. I'd rather take Jim Schaus and our stability any day.
House of cards? What do you think student fees are and forced giving to get your tower club seats. As soon as NIU figures out that scheme, they'll have money too.
If you don't want to pay for tower club seats then sit somewhere else. Alan, I don't know anyone who talks out of both sides of his mouth as much as you do. You're constantly harping on student fees as an illegitimate means of generating revenue for athletics, but you're the first person to complain if ticket prices go up a nickel as OHIO, God forbid, attempts to increase "legitimate" revenue.
D.A.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:40 AM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=C Money]NIU isn't going to slip quietly into mid-major obscurity:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-niu-athl...
...forced giving to get your tower club seats...
That awkward moment every Spring when I wake up with Jim Schaus' Colt 45 in my mouth and him saying "Give me your donation or else".
I don't think Jim drinks.

HA! Touche!
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:58 AM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
NIU isn't going to slip quietly into mid-major obscurity:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-niu-athl...
That is perhaps the DUMBEST thing I've seen in a while. First off, where in the world are they getting the funding for that? A quick check of the numbers shows they generate less than $1M annually in fundraising. They will never get anywhere close to the goal.

Secondly, why expand the stadium to 42K??? They average 11K right now. Talk about a money pit.

Their AD will be gone by next year and the plans go up in smoke. Complete house of cards. I'd rather take Jim Schaus and our stability any day.
House of cards? What do you think student fees are and forced giving to get your tower club seats. As soon as NIU figures out that scheme, they'll have money too.
If you don't want to pay for tower club seats then sit somewhere else. Alan, I don't know anyone who talks out of both sides of his mouth as much as you do. You're constantly harping on student fees as an illegitimate means of generating revenue for athletics, but you're the first person to complain if ticket prices go up a nickel as OHIO, God forbid, attempts to increase "legitimate" revenue.
Come on, his message is clear and consistent: Win while spending no money.
Casper71
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:23 AM
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Hey, Optimist...get your head out of the sand. Cincinnati is now going to pump $70 million into a renovated BBall arena. I repeat: OHIO DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO COMPETE with the BIGGS or in any conference other than the MAC, SunBelt or maybe CUSA. And, the BIGG boys are leaving all three of those behind. It is just a matter of time and you are showing you don't have a clue about College athletics if you can't see that.
GoCats105
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:35 AM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Hey, Optimist...get your head out of the sand. Cincinnati is now going to pump $70 million into a renovated BBall arena. I repeat: OHIO DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO COMPETE with the BIGGS or in any conference other than the MAC, SunBelt or maybe CUSA. And, the BIGG boys are leaving all three of those behind. It is just a matter of time and you are showing you don't have a clue about College athletics if you can't see that.
If they are spending that kind of coin, they may as well just build a new arena. I'd take the Convo, Cintas, UD Arena or even Canton's Fieldhouse any day before 5/3 Arena.
The Optimist
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:46 AM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Hey, Optimist...get your head out of the sand. Cincinnati is now going to pump $70 million into a renovated BBall arena. I repeat: OHIO DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO COMPETE with the BIGGS or in any conference other than the MAC, SunBelt or maybe CUSA. And, the BIGG boys are leaving all three of those behind. It is just a matter of time and you are showing you don't have a clue about College athletics if you can't see that.

70 million for a new arena? Good for them.

Do we need a 70 million dollar arena to compete with Cincinnati in basketball? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

The Convocation Center is not just "good enough." The Convocation Center is a "RESOURCE TO COMPETE" which you claim we are missing. Having a great arena is possibly the most important resource in competing in a better conference. WE HAVE THAT!
It seats 13k and we have the fan base to fill it up. The Convo needs some touch ups, but the core is already there. We make this jump, the Convo is basically ready to go. No new 70 million dollar arena needed...

We do not need to go dollar for dollar with Cincinnati or Memphis in their annual hoops budget to compete. We need to be in the ballpark. We are currently in the ballpark.
If we made the jump to the AAC, I don't think we would need to bump our budget up much from Day 1 to compete. We are already flying to many conference away games and "buying" many OOC home matchups. We just bumped up our head coach's salary (which will likely move our own annual spending numbers up on that list I posted when the numbers come out for 14-15) and we are already competing with these schools in recruiting. Maurice Ndour had an offer from Cincy. He is playing at OHIO.

That is not even touching on the increased revenue we could generate with our hoops program playing better teams. Those AAC programs coming into the Convo in middle of January or February. Wow. We would see sellouts.

...

Football it another story. Unlike the Convo, Peden does need some significant upgrades if we want our football program to be competitive in the AAC. As many have said for years, even decades, that is what has "held us back."
Last Edited: 10/31/2014 11:47:13 AM by The Optimist
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:47 AM
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GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Hey, Optimist...get your head out of the sand. Cincinnati is now going to pump $70 million into a renovated BBall arena. I repeat: OHIO DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO COMPETE with the BIGGS or in any conference other than the MAC, SunBelt or maybe CUSA. And, the BIGG boys are leaving all three of those behind. It is just a matter of time and you are showing you don't have a clue about College athletics if you can't see that.
If they are spending that kind of coin, they may as well just build a new arena. I'd take the Convo, Cintas, UD Arena or even Canton's Fieldhouse any day before 5/3 Arena.
Yeah, I thought UC was pumping the $75 million into renovating Nippert Stadium, their football stadium. Either way, I don't see how Ohio can come up with those kind of funds short of some sort of windfall donation.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:34 PM
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Hell, isn't 5/3 arena fairly new, or fairly recently renovated? I wonder if Cincy is spending 70 million just because they can on something they don't need (?). I think they just like walking around with hundred dollar bills hanging out of each pocket hoping someone will think they belong and invite them to the country club.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:40 PM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
NIU isn't going to slip quietly into mid-major obscurity:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-niu-athl...
That is perhaps the DUMBEST thing I've seen in a while. First off, where in the world are they getting the funding for that? A quick check of the numbers shows they generate less than $1M annually in fundraising. They will never get anywhere close to the goal.

Secondly, why expand the stadium to 42K??? They average 11K right now. Talk about a money pit.

Their AD will be gone by next year and the plans go up in smoke. Complete house of cards. I'd rather take Jim Schaus and our stability any day.
House of cards? What do you think student fees are and forced giving to get your tower club seats. As soon as NIU figures out that scheme, they'll have money too.
If you don't want to pay for tower club seats then sit somewhere else. Alan, I don't know anyone who talks out of both sides of his mouth as much as you do. You're constantly harping on student fees as an illegitimate means of generating revenue for athletics, but you're the first person to complain if ticket prices go up a nickel as OHIO, God forbid, attempts to increase "legitimate" revenue.
Didn't say a thing about ticket prices - I've consistently harped on the cost to buy the right to purchase those tickets. As we approach the day when the total ticket price for a family of four approaches $2000, consistent success against quality opponents will become even more important in fans' buying decisions.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:40 PM
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Yep-I just checked UC's sports website and it's not their basketball arena that's being renovated. It's Nippert Stadium that's undergoing a $75 million expansion.
D.A.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:54 PM
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The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Hey, Optimist...get your head out of the sand. Cincinnati is now going to pump $70 million into a renovated BBall arena. I repeat: OHIO DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO COMPETE with the BIGGS or in any conference other than the MAC, SunBelt or maybe CUSA. And, the BIGG boys are leaving all three of those behind. It is just a matter of time and you are showing you don't have a clue about College athletics if you can't see that.
The Convocation Center is not just "good enough." The Convocation Center is a "RESOURCE TO COMPETE" which you claim we are missing. Having a great arena is possibly the most important resource in competing in a better conference. WE HAVE THAT!
While I agree with you that we may have a good arena from a general spectator and player perspective, where we do not have a level playing field with a UC or UCONN is amenities to draw corporate dollars to close the very large delta between our current budget and theirs. You aren't going to get from $3MM/yr to $6-7MM per year without luxury suite sales and major corporate donors. That extra $3-4MM per year is what it is going to take to get a dedicated basketball practice and training facility, exclusive use amenities and the travel benefits like private charters that those teams currently have.

I don't know if anyone happened to see it on the link to the NIU upgrade story, but there was a hot link to a major new hoops arena DePaul is building, and DePaul has sucked for 20 years!

The money play is taking place in college hoops just like it is in FB, so we all better get warm and fuzzy about it, or find another diversion.
Casper71
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Posted: 10/31/2014 4:08 PM
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Interesting how everyone has a comeback but nobody answers the basic statement: WE DO NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES to continue in an arms race in both FB and BB. Let me put it simply: can OHIO spend $40-$50 million or more a year on Athletics? It is as simple as that and the answer is either YES we do or NO we do not. My answer...NO we don't and neither does anybody in the MAC.

Look, we may be Sweet 16 one year in 50. We amy go to a BCS Bowl 1 year in 100. But, we simply do not have the resources to be at or close to those BIGG levels year in and year out. And please don't tell me about the bottom of the BIGGS, they are already in the game.

Either we want to be and commit to getting there or accept the fact that we, along with the rest of the MAC, are simply not going to play that game and move on accordingly. I think that is what the management at MAC schools has decided. Let's do what is reasonable for us but let's not kid ourselves that we can spend dollar for dollar with them. End of story.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 4:22 PM
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I am in violent agreement with you, and believe that we should be the best OHIO that we can be without pretending we are something we are incapable of being. Not everyone agrees with that, which I respect. It's JMHO.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 4:40 PM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Interesting how everyone has a comeback but nobody answers the basic statement: WE DO NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES to continue in an arms race in both FB and BB. Let me put it simply: can OHIO spend $40-$50 million or more a year on Athletics? It is as simple as that and the answer is either YES we do or NO we do not. My answer...NO we don't and neither does anybody in the MAC.

Look, we may be Sweet 16 one year in 50. We amy go to a BCS Bowl 1 year in 100. But, we simply do not have the resources to be at or close to those BIGG levels year in and year out. And please don't tell me about the bottom of the BIGGS, they are already in the game.

Either we want to be and commit to getting there or accept the fact that we, along with the rest of the MAC, are simply not going to play that game and move on accordingly. I think that is what the management at MAC schools has decided. Let's do what is reasonable for us but let's not kid ourselves that we can spend dollar for dollar with them. End of story.
Nobody is saying Ohio has the resources. All I've seen is arguments that were on par with similar programs (Tulsa, SMU, Houston) which I am ok with. And I've stated previously barring a substantial investment in the $100 million range, we are in the same class as low-level MWC, AAC and C-USA schools.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 5:23 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Didn't say a thing about ticket prices - I've consistently harped on the cost to buy the right to purchase those tickets. As we approach the day when the total ticket price for a family of four approaches $2000, consistent success against quality opponents will become even more important in fans' buying decisions.
The donation is just part of the ticket price. They're actually doing us a favor by making it tax deductible.

Instead of paying $125 + $250 donation for a Tower Club seat, they could just have me pay a flat $375. It's a classic 6 to one, half dozen to the other scenario.

And where do you get this $2,000 for a family of 4 bit? A family of 4 can see every single football game for $119. These are in seats that would be considered premium at most schools.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:13 PM
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D.A. wrote:expand_more
I am in violent agreement with you, and believe that we should be the best OHIO that we can be without pretending we are something we are incapable of being. Not everyone agrees with that, which I respect. It's JMHO.
+1 I agree with that.
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Going through the comments here opinions are varired. There are some that want out of the MAC and different opinions as to what it will take budget and facility wise to get there. My take on this is the new academic center and suites should allow for the ability to get 28,000 in their with both end zone berms packed. That Ohio has only put 26,000 in the stands one time in its history of the stadium and is only drawing 17,000 for mid week games that should be plenty. Even 25,000 is only a once a year crowd yet in Athens. The infrastructure issue for getting more people down to the stadium has more to do with the lack of hotels and parking. May as well aim to keep it tightly packed. When the student side falls down due to age then its time to replace it.
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Posted: 11/1/2014 4:36 PM
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Alan,

Explain to me what your solution would be?

Do you not want any scholarships? So now schools and the NCAA will take in even more money and pay their students(employees) nothing?

To me it looks like you are just complaining about the situation and would complain no matter what the outcome was.
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