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Topic: Welcome to the BIG TIME
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Casper71
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Posted: 4/27/2015 4:29 PM
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Well folks, you think UC hasn't undergone one big transformation both in higher quality academics and improved athletics over the last 10-20 years? Appears there is a real committment to go big time in Athletics. And I notice the most recent US News and World Report has OHIO and UC even academically. That wasn't the case 20 years ago.

So, say what you want but this shows whether it is academics or athletics you do have to spend money to keep up in both arms race and/or get ahead. The 64 thousand dollar question athletically is: Will any of the Big 5 ask UC to join them? Could be the best moves they could make or the biggest blunder ever...stay tuned!
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 4/27/2015 4:56 PM
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? About 20 years ago Cincinnati was in the Final Four. And 30 years before that. And they were in a BCS conference for a decade and now are not.
Pataskala
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Posted: 4/27/2015 8:24 PM
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I think eventually B12 will extend an offer. It'll help give WVU a closer rival and help put B12 into B14 and SEC territory more.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/27/2015 10:09 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
I think eventually B12 will extend an offer. It'll help give WVU a closer rival and help put B12 into B14 and SEC territory more.
+1 I think you are right about this.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 4/27/2015 10:31 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I think eventually B12 will extend an offer. It'll help give WVU a closer rival and help put B12 into B14 and SEC territory more.
+1 I think you are right about this.

Agree with you guys 100% which probably means it won't happen. I never listen to any on air show where WVU is concerned that their isolation and travel issues are not mentioned. They are really hanging out there. They should have tried hard to get Louisville and Cincy when the conference lost the other teams IMO.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 4/27/2015 10:40 PM
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UC is in the process of spending $85M to turn a 35K seat stadium into a 40K seat stadium for a fan base that has averaged more the 32K just twice in the past ten years.

4 years ago Cincinnati was in a conference that turned down $15M/yr per team, today they receive $1.5M/yr.

That's what I call progress.
OU_Country
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Posted: 4/28/2015 9:13 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I think eventually B12 will extend an offer. It'll help give WVU a closer rival and help put B12 into B14 and SEC territory more.
+1 I think you are right about this.

I was told a few months ago by someone who says they know someone inside UC's AD (take that with a grain of salt) that UC and Memphis are negotiating with the Big 12. Whether or not it's true, I don't know, but it does make a lot of sense.




perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
UC is in the process of spending $85M to turn a 35K seat stadium into a 40K seat stadium for a fan base that has averaged more the 32K just twice in the past ten years.

4 years ago Cincinnati was in a conference that turned down $15M/yr per team, today they receive $1.5M/yr.

That's what I call progress.


The seating capacity doesn't tell the whole story about the renovation. Nippert is undergoing a (supposed) complete overhaul in terms of club seats, restrooms, concessions, audio/video, and so forth. And, it was already 15 years ahead of Peden before those started. In places where the product on the field is successful, people tend to fill seats in nice venues. I'd be surprised if there wasn't an average attendance close to a sellout in the updated stadium.
Casper71
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Posted: 4/28/2015 10:12 AM
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Mike, did I miss something in the last 20 years? What BCS Conference was UC football in 20 years ago? Back then, as I recal, they averaged about 15k and played teams like OHIO. My point is simply they have really stepped up, spending a bunch of money to make it to the big time. Whether or not they make it is up for debate. On the other hand, OHIO and the MAC are basically treading water and status quo hoping to survive. I really do understand, UC has the local alumni base and endowment to do much more than OHIO and they are.

Oh, and I will say this about the new Nippert...that press box side is huge and impressive. It is no longer a Peden type stadium. Then again, I do agree can they fill it up?
Last Edited: 4/28/2015 10:15:05 AM by Casper71
Ohio69
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Posted: 4/28/2015 1:53 PM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
My point is simply they have really stepped up, spending a bunch of money to make it to the big time. Whether or not they make it is up for debate. On the other hand, OHIO and the MAC are basically treading water and status quo hoping to survive. I really do understand, UC has the local alumni base and endowment to do much more than OHIO and they are.
On treading water and hoping to survive: We better get used to it.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 4/28/2015 2:40 PM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I think eventually B12 will extend an offer. It'll help give WVU a closer rival and help put B12 into B14 and SEC territory more.
+1 I think you are right about this.

I was told a few months ago by someone who says they know someone inside UC's AD (take that with a grain of salt) that UC and Memphis are negotiating with the Big 12. Whether or not it's true, I don't know, but it does make a lot of sense.




UC is in the process of spending $85M to turn a 35K seat stadium into a 40K seat stadium for a fan base that has averaged more the 32K just twice in the past ten years.

4 years ago Cincinnati was in a conference that turned down $15M/yr per team, today they receive $1.5M/yr.

That's what I call progress.


The seating capacity doesn't tell the whole story about the renovation. Nippert is undergoing a (supposed) complete overhaul in terms of club seats, restrooms, concessions, audio/video, and so forth. And, it was already 15 years ahead of Peden before those started....
All the more reason for us to spend $5 million on a brick study hall in the endzone. :/
OU_Country
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Posted: 4/28/2015 4:14 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
My point is simply they have really stepped up, spending a bunch of money to make it to the big time. Whether or not they make it is up for debate. On the other hand, OHIO and the MAC are basically treading water and status quo hoping to survive. I really do understand, UC has the local alumni base and endowment to do much more than OHIO and they are.
On treading water and hoping to survive: We better get used to it.

Not to bring up the ages long debate, but this is where diverting money to basketball could make sense. Throwing an extra $2-4million at hoops can have greater return, and potentially eliminate "treading water" on the basketball side of things. Football requires a lot bigger investment number to jump to a higher level.
Casper71
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Posted: 4/28/2015 4:55 PM
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OU Country may have something there. I love football and I love Peden on a Fall Saturday...BUT...we probably have a better chance of making a really big splash in Basketball.
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Posted: 4/28/2015 5:05 PM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
My point is simply they have really stepped up, spending a bunch of money to make it to the big time. Whether or not they make it is up for debate. On the other hand, OHIO and the MAC are basically treading water and status quo hoping to survive. I really do understand, UC has the local alumni base and endowment to do much more than OHIO and they are.
On treading water and hoping to survive: We better get used to it.

Not to bring up the ages long debate, but this is where diverting money to basketball could make sense. Throwing an extra $2-4million at hoops can have greater return, and potentially eliminate "treading water" on the basketball side of things. Football requires a lot bigger investment number to jump to a higher level.
We already spend 50% more than any other school in the MAC, and are still in the 90's for spend in the NCAA in hoops. How much more do you want to outspend our peers, and if spending 50% more than anyone else in the MAC returns us a conference championship once a decade or so, are we really getting the ROI in hoops that we should be?
L.C.
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Posted: 4/28/2015 5:22 PM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Not to bring up the ages long debate, but this is where diverting money to basketball could make sense. Throwing an extra $2-4million at hoops can have greater return, and potentially eliminate "treading water" on the basketball side of things. Football requires a lot bigger investment number to jump to a higher level.

Some spending serves both sports, and might be impossible with just one. As an example, think about the Academic Center that DCF is opposed to. It will benefit all sports, not just football. I don't know if the sports compete for resources, or compliment each other, but I suspect it is sometimes the first, but often the latter as well.
Last Edited: 4/28/2015 7:26:42 PM by L.C.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 4/28/2015 9:07 PM
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D.A. wrote:expand_more
My point is simply they have really stepped up, spending a bunch of money to make it to the big time. Whether or not they make it is up for debate. On the other hand, OHIO and the MAC are basically treading water and status quo hoping to survive. I really do understand, UC has the local alumni base and endowment to do much more than OHIO and they are.
On treading water and hoping to survive: We better get used to it.

Not to bring up the ages long debate, but this is where diverting money to basketball could make sense. Throwing an extra $2-4million at hoops can have greater return, and potentially eliminate "treading water" on the basketball side of things. Football requires a lot bigger investment number to jump to a higher level.
We already spend 50% more than any other school in the MAC, and are still in the 90's for spend in the NCAA in hoops. How much more do you want to outspend our peers, and if spending 50% more than anyone else in the MAC returns us a conference championship once a decade or so, are we really getting the ROI in hoops that we should be?
The point may be moot. If the P5 expand scholarship limits to more than 85 per team, together with allowing stipends for the players, Ohio's days in the FBS may be numbered. I love football but as has been said above, basketball unfortunately might be a better financial investment. And DA, besides upgrades to the Convo, as I recall Ohio could use a practice court. I think Groce thought that might have been the final piece of the puzzle for Ohio having preeminent b-ball facilities.
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Posted: 4/28/2015 11:42 PM
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I'd like to compare the percentage of athletic budget drawn from student fees at UC and Ohio. I'm guessing that figure is higher at Ohio. It's questionable whether the MACs continued heavy reliance on student fees for athletics will be sustainable politically in the long term. This puts schools like Ohio in even more jeopardy in the future than schools like UC.
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Posted: 4/28/2015 11:45 PM
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Endowments:

UC- $1,200,000,000
OU- $447,000,000

This is the arms race that matters.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 4/29/2015 7:59 AM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I'd like to compare the percentage of athletic budget drawn from student fees at UC and Ohio. I'm guessing that figure is higher at Ohio. It's questionable whether the MACs continued heavy reliance on student fees for athletics will be sustainable politically in the long term. This puts schools like Ohio in even more jeopardy in the future than schools like UC.

Well an USA Today article in 2013 said UC about 35% subsidy -$21.7 mill versus Ohio 67% -$18 mill plus or minus. They do have the money in their endowment to subsidize the deficit I guess. I didn't research how much was fees, but that's probably easily found. Anyway, they're a money loser too.
Last Edited: 4/29/2015 8:17:04 AM by colobobcat66
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 4/29/2015 9:26 AM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Mike, did I miss something in the last 20 years? What BCS Conference was UC football in 20 years ago? Back then, as I recal, they averaged about 15k and played teams like OHIO. My point is simply they have really stepped up, spending a bunch of money to make it to the big time. Whether or not they make it is up for debate. On the other hand, OHIO and the MAC are basically treading water and status quo hoping to survive. I really do understand, UC has the local alumni base and endowment to do much more than OHIO and they are.

Oh, and I will say this about the new Nippert...that press box side is huge and impressive. It is no longer a Peden type stadium. Then again, I do agree can they fill it up?
I didn't say they were in a BCS conference 20 years ago. I said they were in one, the Big East, and now they are not. This sounds like a lot of the doom and gloom predicted on here when Akron built InfoCision, but UC is obviously in a far better position than Akron to take advantage.
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Posted: 4/29/2015 11:55 AM
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I've always thought UC was more or less just putting a lot of fancy lipstick and dresses on the pig that is Nippert. But apparently it's wholesale changes to help with the infrastructure too. I guess I can see the appeal in that. UC fans love, love, loooooooove them some Nippert. They hated going down to Paul Brown this year.

Now about that Fifth Third Arena...

...anyways, I've also always thought from the beginning that UC never really belonged in this new "Power 5" and they were left out of it in the beginning for a reason. Had WVU not signed with the Big 12 and went somewhere else like the SEC or ACC, I don't think UC would have a shot anywhere. Having WVU in the fold more or less makes the Big 12 accommodate and grab another regional opponent for the Neers. That's why Memphis and UC make perfect sense. In a national sense, I would have went for UCF though. They've got the 2nd largest enrollment in the country right now I believe, trailing only Arizona State.

It's going to become more and more difficult to keep up with these Joneses, and I'm not sure how much a new academic center will do. Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea and it was a needed thing, but at what point does the school and AD just say "there's nothing more we can do."?
Last Edited: 4/29/2015 11:56:39 AM by GoCats105
OU_Country
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Posted: 4/29/2015 2:22 PM
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I'm interested to hear your logic on UC not being included in a Power 5. Academically, they're better than plenty of the schools that fall under that category now. Athletically, their success in football and basketball far exceeds 50% or more of those schools currently in the Power 5.

The biggest issue I see that they have is the need for a much improved basketball arena.
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Posted: 4/29/2015 2:36 PM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I'm interested to hear your logic on UC not being included in a Power 5. Academically, they're better than plenty of the schools that fall under that category now. Athletically, their success in football and basketball far exceeds 50% or more of those schools currently in the Power 5.

The biggest issue I see that they have is the need for a much improved basketball arena.

I would think that their football attendence would be in the bottom 5 in the P5, but I haven't checked lately. Their attendence stinks. Not big time.
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Posted: 4/29/2015 3:10 PM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
I'm interested to hear your logic on UC not being included in a Power 5. Academically, they're better than plenty of the schools that fall under that category now. Athletically, their success in football and basketball far exceeds 50% or more of those schools currently in the Power 5.

The biggest issue I see that they have is the need for a much improved basketball arena.

I would think that their football attendence would be in the bottom 5 in the P5, but I haven't checked lately. Their attendence stinks. Not big time.
Kinda where I was going with that. Their football attendance wasn't/hasn't been great. The football program really didn't get their start until Dantonio right? And then Kelly/Jones skyrocketed them.

The basketball team absolutely does. As does UConn's. But one big-time program doesn't equal Power 5 to those people (the Power 5 brokers). And to me, they just don't have that big-time feel I guess. Then again, neither does Indiana football.

There in lies in the inconsistency in the Power 5 though.
Casper71
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Posted: 4/29/2015 4:49 PM
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Uh, I would guess their attendance...at somewhere just north of 30k is higher than a lot of other BCS schools. You are right though, 20 years ago they were lucky to get 15k!! My point is: they do have resources and they are spending like crazy to be in the BIG TIME. Not sure, yet, whether they are really smart or really dumb....
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Posted: 4/29/2015 6:07 PM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Uh, I would guess their attendance...at somewhere just north of 30k is higher than a lot of other BCS schools. You are right though, 20 years ago they were lucky to get 15k!! My point is: they do have resources and they are spending like crazy to be in the BIG TIME. Not sure, yet, whether they are really smart or really dumb....

Their average attendance in 2014 was 28,840, down 9% from the year before, which puts them in 76th place nationwide.
http://tinyurl.com/kyosw5o

Non-P5 schools ahead of them include:
East Carolina 44,786
UCF 37,812
Fresno St 34,876
Army 34,262
Memphis 33,851
Boise St 32,504
Navy 32,502
SD St 32,294

The only P5 school below them is Wake Forest at 27,210.
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