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Topic: Steele Pre-Season All-MAC Selections
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L.C.
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Posted: 6/2/2015 8:02 PM
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Ten Bobcats earn pre-season All-MAC from Phil Steele:

Offense:
AJ OUellette - 3rd Team
Mike Lucas - 3rd Team
Lucas Powell - 3rd Team
Mike McQueen - 3rd Team

Defense:
Tarrel Basham - 2d Team
Quentin Poling - 2d Team
Devin Bass - 4th Team
Jovon Johnson - 4th Team

Special Teams:
Mitch Bonnstetter - 3rd Team
Daz Patterson - 3rd Team

My thoughts:
1. I expect that when the season is done, at least one Bobcat WR makes the all-conference list, but I can't guess whether it will be Cope, Reid, or S. Smith.
2. I do think that at least one Ohio DB will be all-MAC, but I'm not sure it will be Bass, who lost his starting spot late last season to Brett Layton. It might be Wells or Layton, or perhaps Devin Jones. I'm not writing Bass off, though. He played well his Sophomore season, and I hope he has a great Senior year.
3. Yaz certainly has the potential to make this list, too.
Paul Graham
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:05 AM
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This is not a very good list. I mean, what is Bass doing on there?

Also, Wells (as on of the other previews pointed out) is our best NFL prospect and should undoubtedly be an All-MAC selection. Sure, he may not have the eye-popping stats...but thats only because people avoid throwing the ball his way.

Johnson is at least a second team pick. He was third team All-MAC last season for crying out loud.

And Blair Brown should be in there somewhere...but I don't blame them too much for not knowing that.
Last Edited: 6/3/2015 12:06:13 AM by Paul Graham
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 6/3/2015 10:00 AM
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At a quick glance, EMU has more first and second teamers than we do.
Bobcat Grad 86
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Posted: 6/3/2015 10:28 AM
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177 pound Pre-Season All-MAC selection!
Pataskala
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:52 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
At a quick glance, EMU has more first and second teamers than we do.
But the four EMU put on those teams (one 1st and three 2nd) are the only EMU players on the four teams. Ohio's ten on the four teams shows we have good talent at more positions than EMU. Looking at Steele's list, we're similar to UMass and BSU; they each have ten on the four teams, but UMass has only three on 1st and 2nd, and BSU (like Ohio) has two.

What Steele's list shows is who are likely to be the teams to beat. In the East, BG (13 total, including 8 1st/2nd team), Ohio and UMass ten apiece; In the West, NIU (13, 7 1st/2nd), WMU (12, 7), Toledo (10, 6), BSU (10), and maybe CMU (8, 7). Of the teams we play this year, only BG, NIU and WMU have more players on Steele's four teams. We're even with BSU, and have more than Akron, Buffalo, Kent and Fiami.
Last Edited: 6/3/2015 1:06:31 PM by Pataskala
Alan Swank
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Posted: 6/3/2015 6:05 PM
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Who ever heard of a 4th team? Reminds me of the tvc all league teams - if you finish in first, you get "x" number of players on the team, second place gets "y" number, etc. There were 32 people on the all league baseball team in each division. Reminds me of the the 200+ valedictorians in one of the suburban Columbus districts this year reported in today's Dispatch. Strange times we live in.
Last Edited: 6/3/2015 6:15:28 PM by Alan Swank
L.C.
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Posted: 6/3/2015 6:38 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Who ever heard of a 4th team? ...

Keep in mind that this is not an award, it's a prediction. Steele is just trying to hedge his bets, and give himself one more shot at trying to guess who will end up getting the awards.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 6/3/2015 8:17 PM
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Alan is quite right; 4th team--really!

Pataskala--There's some truth to quantity over quality (in re OHIO vs. EMU) but I think that first teamers are quite a cut above the rest. UMass with four first teamers--interesting.

I'll bet that BG's actual after the season is over will be better than Steele's prediction.
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Posted: 6/3/2015 10:50 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Alan is quite right; 4th team--really!

Pataskala--There's some truth to quantity over quality (in re OHIO vs. EMU) but I think that first teamers are quite a cut above the rest. UMass with four first teamers--interesting.

I'll bet that BG's actual after the season is over will be better than Steele's prediction.
Three of UMass's first teamers are on offense, which was their strength last year. Their Achilles Heel was defense, but they have a first teamer there, and I do expect their defense to improve. I think they'll be a much better team than some give them credit for and I'm glad they're not on our sked. Their 10/10 game at BG will go a long way in determining the East champ.

I was surprised that Steele has Matt Johnson a 4th teamer at QB. He may be the best in the MAC when he's healthy. If he avoids injuries this year, he'll wind up one of the top two.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 6/5/2015 2:56 PM
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I don't know. Baseball--MACC. Volleyball--MACC Men hoops--MACC. Women hoops--MACC. Swimming--MACC. Football?
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 6/6/2015 6:49 PM
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Softball--MACC. Wrestling--MACC.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 6/7/2015 5:51 PM
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Below is a comparison ranking from 2010-2014, the first number on the left is how that team ranks in the MAC in total wins, the second number on the right is the total number of 1st Team All-MAC selections. Notice that there is a direct correlation (as you would expect)for nearly every team, except one.

Toledo had 42 wins and 20 first team selections, Ohio had 40 wins but only 4 first teamers. Either Ohio is greatly over achieving or Ohio players are greatly under rated, or a little bit of both.

1/1 NIU
2/2 Toledo
3/12 Ohio
4/3 Ball St
5/4 BGSU
6/5 Kent St
7/7 CMU
8/8 WMU
9/6 Buffalo
10/9 Miami
11/10 UMass
12/13 EMU
13/11 Akron
Cats-22
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Posted: 6/7/2015 6:48 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Below is a comparison ranking from 2010-2014, the first number on the left is how that team ranks in the MAC in total wins, the second number on the right is the total number of 1st Team All-MAC selections. Notice that there is a direct correlation (as you would expect)for nearly every team, except one.

Toledo had 42 wins and 20 first team selections, Ohio had 40 wins but only 4 first teamers. Either Ohio is greatly over achieving or Ohio players are greatly under rated, or a little bit of both.

1/1 NIU
2/2 Toledo
3/12 Ohio
4/3 Ball St
5/4 BGSU
6/5 Kent St
7/7 CMU
8/8 WMU
9/6 Buffalo
10/9 Miami
11/10 UMass
12/13 EMU
13/11 Akron

Wow.
L.C.
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Posted: 6/7/2015 8:10 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
..Toledo had 42 wins and 20 first team selections, Ohio had 40 wins but only 4 first teamers. Either Ohio is greatly over achieving or Ohio players are greatly under rated, or a little bit of both.

Wow. Fascinating stuff. That's quite an extreme difference. Considering that Ohio's recruiting classes weren't that highly rated until the last couple years, I tend towards the former explanation, that Ohio has won a lot more games with teamwork than they should have with the talent they have. That explanation is also consistent with the voting for the favorite Bobcats of all time, where the consensus of many of the oldtimers seems to be that the talent was as high or higher under Grobe.

The last two years there has been a marked jump in the rankings of the recruiting classes, so it will be interesting to see if they start winning even more, which I think they will, and if they start collecting more First Team All-MAC awards, which I also think they will. We can debate why it took so long to start seeing this kind of quality in the recruiting classes, but at least we are seeing it now.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 6/8/2015 9:48 AM
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broken down a little further, here's the top 4 MAC teams with total wins (number on the left) and total 1st team all MAC selections (number on the right)-

57/25 NIU
42/20 Toledo
40/04 Ohio
34/13 Ball St
Casper71
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Posted: 6/8/2015 10:33 AM
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This tends to confirm what I have felt since FS and Co have been here. They get a lot out of the talent they bring in. My point has always been: just think if we had 20 or so first teamers where we might be? I still can't figure out why it is this staff has not been a lot more successful in landing more top recruits unless they just don't really go after them. If that is the philosophy, I think the results show you can only go so far without more talent.
C Money
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Posted: 6/8/2015 11:55 AM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
..Toledo had 42 wins and 20 first team selections, Ohio had 40 wins but only 4 first teamers. Either Ohio is greatly over achieving or Ohio players are greatly under rated, or a little bit of both.

Wow. Fascinating stuff. That's quite an extreme difference. Considering that Ohio's recruiting classes weren't that highly rated until the last couple years, I tend towards the former explanation, that Ohio has won a lot more games with teamwork than they should have with the talent they have. That explanation is also consistent with the voting for the favorite Bobcats of all time, where the consensus of many of the oldtimers seems to be that the talent was as high or higher under Grobe.

The last two years there has been a marked jump in the rankings of the recruiting classes, so it will be interesting to see if they start winning even more, which I think they will, and if they start collecting more First Team All-MAC awards, which I also think they will. We can debate why it took so long to start seeing this kind of quality in the recruiting classes, but at least we are seeing it now.

Maybe need to adjust for average SOS? Going by memory, I'm thinking Toledo schedules more P5 opponents than Ohio. That won't explain all of the divergence but it would be relevant.
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Posted: 6/8/2015 4:44 PM
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C Money wrote:expand_more
Maybe need to adjust for average SOS? Going by memory, I'm thinking Toledo schedules more P5 opponents than Ohio. That won't explain all of the divergence but it would be relevant.

If you look at conference games only, the records from 2010-2014 are:

NIU 38-2
Toledo 32-8
Ohio 24-16
Ball State 24-16
Bowling Green 22-18
Kent 20-19
WMU 19-21
CMU 18-22
Buffalo 15-24
Miami 15-25
UMass/Temple Combined 15-25
EMU 9-31
Akron 8-32

The order is almost identical to the overall order. In fact the only order change is reversing CMU and WMU.
Last Edited: 6/8/2015 5:39:02 PM by L.C.
Paul Graham
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Posted: 6/8/2015 6:53 PM
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The East stinks. Toledo and NIU have been the class of the conference for a while now, so it makes perfect sense that they dominate the 1st team selections.

Beyond that, we really haven't had many individual stars on the team. The 2011 team, if I had to guess, had a number of 1st and 2nd team players. Since then, we've had very few players that have deserved it. But we still beat up on the crummy East, so there's your descrepancy.
L.C.
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Posted: 6/8/2015 8:45 PM
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Even taking out the West teams, this looks odd:
1/7 Ohio
2/1 BGSU
3/2 Kent St
4/3 Buffalo
5/4 Miami
6/5 UMass
7/6 Akron
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 6/8/2015 11:53 PM
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Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
The East stinks. Toledo and NIU have been the class of the conference for a while now, so it makes perfect sense that they dominate the 1st team selections.

Beyond that, we really haven't had many individual stars on the team. The 2011 team, if I had to guess, had a number of 1st and 2nd team players. Since then, we've had very few players that have deserved it. But we still beat up on the crummy East, so there's your descrepancy.
At least some people have mastered the obvious.

Others..not so much.
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Posted: 6/9/2015 7:56 AM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
Even taking out the West teams, this looks odd:
1/7 Ohio
2/1 BGSU
3/2 Kent St
4/3 Buffalo
5/4 Miami
6/5 UMass
7/6 Akron
Statistics play a huge roll and Ohio involves as many players as possible. Rarely will an Ohio player lead the MAC in any stat. Yet the team will usually do well.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 6/10/2015 2:25 AM
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MACC?
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