Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Major Announcement
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Speaker of Truth
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:30 AM
A couple bullet points on this.....

- What does this mean for the current academic center in the tower? DO they transform that into more offices or suites?
- This is fueled just as much by what the area will be used for on gameday as it is with what it will be used for during the week.
- I'm on the fence with whether or not Academic centers are needed for athletes. Some athletes can justify its use because they bring way more value to Ohio than their scholarship pays them. This is another totally different argument...
- I like OU uses buildings for multiple purposes and not just 6 games a year. Our press box is football recruit lounge, radio booths are offices, etc. Some may say that is cheap and corny, but I think it is very efficient. Why have a million dollar press box for 6 times a year?
- This is a privately funded project, so no real reason to complain from the academic departments. With that being said, if the donation went to something outside of athletic academics, the uproar would be large!
Ohio69
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:47 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
....I get it, but I don't especially like it. It would rank very low on my priority list. Well behind things like:

- New scoreboard for the Convo
- Practice gym for basketball
- New scoreboard for Peden
- Improvements to the bathrooms in the Convo
- Improvements to the bathrooms in Peden
- Improving the concourse and concession area of Peden

.....

I don't like, I love every single $2 million donation to Ohio University.

Also, I eagerly await Recovering Journalist's $2 million donation for those items he lists. :)
Last Edited: 9/18/2014 10:48:20 AM by Ohio69
Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:55 AM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
I don't like, I love every single $2 million donation to Ohio University.

Also, I eagerly await Recovering Journalist's $2 million donation for those items he lists. :)
It's not an entirely unfair point, but my critique was not about the gift. It was about where they're choosing to apply it.
D.A.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 11:19 AM
On March 25th, 2013, I became the first person to write a check for this project, and at that time nearly 100% of the details that were announced yesterday were not established.

First, here is my rationale for having decided to support this project, which was initiated by the Athletic Department, and has been in a silent phase of fundraising since shortly before I made my gift:

- Any effort to emphasize the “student” component of student athlete, especially with such a strong initiative and a prominently located facility as this project, is something I can support unequivocally.
- This facility provides a central location for the student athletes to study on the athletic campus without having to travel to other locations on campus to find a quiet, learning friendly environment. With nearly every athletic complex being located on the banks of the Hocking, the location of the building provides an excellent proximity for most every program.
- I have been afforded enough access to the programs to see what it looks like when our student athletes are attempting to study in and around our athletic facilities, and it is a sad joke.
- If you paid any attention to “Relentless” or “All In”, you saw that many of the student athletes choose to live off campus. Off campus housing is getting farther and farther from campus than when I was in school, and the student athletes are often required to be at their respective athletic facilities several times a day. Providing an academic venue on campus and in close proximity to their athletic venue where they don’t need to return to their housing in order to find quiet study space, not to mention tutoring and group study time, is the right thing to do in my view. The nearest facility with significant volume for group study space is New Baker, and that place was undersized and overbooked from day one.
- In my personal opinion, our student athlete population spends a dramatically higher percentage of their non-classroom time endeavoring in activities that have a direct benefit to the mission and objectives of the University than the general student population does, therefore I have no qualms about spending any of my disposable income in support of their role as student athletes. Certainly there is a quid pro quos for those athletes that are on a full ride scholarship, but a significant percentage of our student athlete population does not receive much (or any) financial support, so I am happy to play a role in recognizing their commitment to OHIO.
- In the present environment on campus, if Athletics wants a facility they have to build or improve those facilities 100% on the backs of private donations, so it is important to me that I support those initiatives to the level I am capable. If Athletics raises 100% of the funds for a project, I am 100% supportive of student athletes having exclusive access to that amenity.
- While I was also able to support the Walter Fieldhouse project, and was happy to do so because it delivers multi-sport benefit to ICA. I for one welcomed the decision to build this academic facility BEFORE something like an independent basketball practice facility, which only benefits two programs.
- I can do whatever the hell I want with my money, and so can the Walters, the Sooks, the Schoonovers…and I hope that many more like minded donors allow this project to hit and exceed the target as quickly as possible. This project was important to the Sooks, and I applaud them for making the lead gift.

Now, for secondary benefits I see for the facility now that the plans are more structured:

- Although the location of the building was somewhat established last March, on seeing the renderings I believe this placement is ideal to make a statement to the importance of the academic mission of the University.
- There is also an added benefit to all attendees of football games by providing some much needed upgrades to comfort facilities and concessions, which was not part of the original plan. I think this is very smart on the part of the planning team, and came as new information to me yesterday.
- Additionally, being able to have a dual use area for entertainment during events, both alumni and corporate, is an ideal scenario considering the location of the building. OHIO has less than appealing entertainment areas in Peden Tower which are dated and not conducive to entertaining in any significant numbers. This new amenity could be vital to drawing more corporate sponsorship, especially from now thriving Central Ohio. This added benefit was new information to me yesterday.
- And aesthetically, it will help the north end zone area look more finished while not compromising the Uptown view from most seating locations. While it would be great to have a $20MM project that completely renovates the North End Zone, absent me winning Powerball, I don’t foresee private money coming in that volume for such a project.

And as an aside, my decision had NOTHING to do with keeping up with the Joneses. I felt it the right thing to do for the student athletes in support of their commitment to OHIO.
Last Edited: 9/18/2014 4:07:56 PM by D.A.
MedinaCat
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Posted: 9/18/2014 11:23 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
I don't like, I love every single $2 million donation to Ohio University.

Also, I eagerly await Recovering Journalist's $2 million donation for those items he lists. :)
It's not an entirely unfair point, but my critique was not about the gift. It was about where they're choosing to apply it.
Having the family name on an Academic Building may be more appealing and have a nicer ring to it vs. the "Sook Family Center Court Scoreboard."

Knowing many alumni never give back a dime, I appreciate and thank the Sook's for their generous donation(and D.A.'s!)
JSF
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Posted: 9/18/2014 11:25 AM
Thanks for the answers to my question. They are more than satisfactory.

I do have one (minor) concern related to this, though. I don't think it's a great thing to see the increasing separation between athletes and other students. Increasingly, athletes live largely with themselves, interact largely with themselves, and they're going to study largely with themselves. They end up with almost this "otherness" status. It's a bigger problem at the money schools; you see athletes that have this disconnect. It's something I hope doesn't happen at Ohio because it's a good and healthy thing to have everyone mixing together at least a moderate bit.
D.A.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 11:39 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Thanks for the answers to my question. They are more than satisfactory.

I do have one (minor) concern related to this, though. I don't think it's a great thing to see the increasing separation between athletes and other students. Increasingly, athletes live largely with themselves, interact largely with themselves, and they're going to study largely with themselves. They end up with almost this "otherness" status. It's a bigger problem at the money schools; you see athletes that have this disconnect. It's something I hope doesn't happen at Ohio because it's a good and healthy thing to have everyone mixing together at least a moderate bit.
I agree wholeheartedly. If this were a "lounge" with pool tables, video games, swimming pool/hot tubs and the like, I would have the same concern. This facility IS going to get some use from the general student population in the form of student AND faculty tutors and other academic mechanisms, all in the mission of improving student athletes ACADEMIC performance, which is why I am 100% comfortable with the plan.
D.A.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 11:49 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
I suspect this very generous gift was based on the priorities of the athletics department, but I don't agree with the priorities.

My opinion comes from a position of ignorance with respect to recruiting and the day-to-day life of a student-athlete, so I may well be wrong, but on the face of it this thing just seems excessive for a department running in the red.

I rationally understand "keeping up with the Joneses," but the campus has plenty of classrooms, computer labs, library space, etc. available to all students. I get it, but I don't especially like it. It would rank very low on my priority list. Well behind things like:

- New scoreboard for the Convo
- Practice gym for basketball
- New scoreboard for Peden
- Improvements to the bathrooms in the Convo
- Improvements to the bathrooms in Peden
- Improving the concourse and concession area of Peden

Yes, my list is tilted in favor of basketball, and that's partly a reflection of what interests me most. It's also because Peden is only used a handful of times each year, and I don't see a rosy long-term future for FBS also-rans like MAC schools or football in general. Between the wanton avarice of the NFL and Power 5 and the myriad issues with respect to brain injuries and amateurism, pouring tons of money into Peden seems like a bad long-term bet.
I respect your opinion, and if I were an Athletic Director, which I am not, I would look to one source for improving the following:

Profit Gains From Increased Ticket Prices (for which I see no appetite in our fanbase, and if you spend those profits your programs continue to remain in the red, as you cite)

- Improvements to the bathrooms in the Convo
- Improvements to the bathrooms in Peden
- Improving the concourse and concession area of Peden

Private Donations:

- Practice gym for basketball

Corporate Sponsorships: (the vehicle that paid for the present Peden scoreboard, and with our present setups in hoops and FB we make very difficult to attract because we presently offer no opportunity for corporations to entertain at our games)

- New scoreboard for the Convo
- New scoreboard for Peden

Respectfully, no donor is going to give money simply to reduce the deficit of the programs and allow them to get in the black, save for indirectly offsetting expenses by endowing scholarships, which is the leading expense of most of the programs. And let's face it, if you were a high wealth earner, likely with a little bit of an ego, would you rather have your name on a building or on a scholarship?
Last Edited: 9/18/2014 11:51:05 AM by D.A.
Ohio69
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:19 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Thanks for the answers to my question. They are more than satisfactory.

I do have one (minor) concern related to this, though. I don't think it's a great thing to see the increasing separation between athletes and other students. Increasingly, athletes live largely with themselves, interact largely with themselves, and they're going to study largely with themselves. They end up with almost this "otherness" status. It's a bigger problem at the money schools; you see athletes that have this disconnect. It's something I hope doesn't happen at Ohio because it's a good and healthy thing to have everyone mixing together at least a moderate bit.
Have to agree with this.

Also, Recovering Journalist - I'm just teasing you dude. No ill will intended.
The Situation
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:08 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Thanks for the answers to my question. They are more than satisfactory.

I do have one (minor) concern related to this, though. I don't think it's a great thing to see the increasing separation between athletes and other students. Increasingly, athletes live largely with themselves, interact largely with themselves, and they're going to study largely with themselves. They end up with almost this "otherness" status. It's a bigger problem at the money schools; you see athletes that have this disconnect. It's something I hope doesn't happen at Ohio because it's a good and healthy thing to have everyone mixing together at least a moderate bit.
Have to agree with this.

Also, Recovering Journalist - I'm just teasing you dude. No ill will intended.
This is a limp-wristed risk analysis of segregation potential. From my college experience I will say the segregation of athletes from the student population has very little to do with exclusive amenities and very much to do with human nature (and people's attraction to like minded individuals).

If the argument is that an enticing athlete only academic center may lead to a further segregated student body, I call bull %^$&. This isn't the Olympic Village. During my time at OU, I was friends with guys and girls from most of the sports teams. There is an athlete sub-culture to an extent, but these athletes (human beings) are not going to cut ties with the rest of the student body in any significant manner.

If someone isn't going to sit at your lunch table, it has very little to do with where they are allowed to study.

Is it an issue the education majors study in McCracken? Is it an issue the engineers study at the ARC, or that the business kids spend their time at Copeland?

If there's any subculture to be apprehensive about further segregating at OU, it's the international Asian students. My friend and I had a random third roommate sophomore year from China. I enjoyed my time with the kid (who now goes to USC), but he and his Asian friends lived in a different world within the Athens city limits. I had a redundant experience as an engineering student. I would argue that the this sub culture is the most distant of the large minority subcultures (including athletes, excluding rogue international and ideological contingents).
Last Edited: 9/19/2014 2:40:49 PM by Jeff McKinney
Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:24 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Also, Recovering Journalist - I'm just teasing you dude. No ill will intended.
Never took it as such. I am enjoying the fun and civil debate here.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 9/18/2014 3:32 PM
Athletes can't possibly separate themselves from the student population anymore than fraternities and sororities do.
Last Edited: 9/18/2014 4:31:38 PM by perimeterpost
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 9/18/2014 3:37 PM
This is one of the better threads we've had on here in a while.
Sony7
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Posted: 9/18/2014 4:22 PM
Really, don't &^*( on everything positive people. Really - you hate this? What the F is wrong with you? Is there anything OHIO can do right in your eyes. Wow!
Last Edited: 9/19/2014 2:41:32 PM by Jeff McKinney
OhioStunter
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Posted: 9/18/2014 4:38 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Thanks for the answers to my question. They are more than satisfactory.

I do have one (minor) concern related to this, though. I don't think it's a great thing to see the increasing separation between athletes and other students. Increasingly, athletes live largely with themselves, interact largely with themselves, and they're going to study largely with themselves. They end up with almost this "otherness" status. It's a bigger problem at the money schools; you see athletes that have this disconnect. It's something I hope doesn't happen at Ohio because it's a good and healthy thing to have everyone mixing together at least a moderate bit.
I had the same initial question and also found the response more than satisfactory.

I do find this to be a no-win situation, though.

Build study center for student-athletes --> other students, non-donors complain about athletes getting special treatment, money should be used elsewhere (even though it is from donations)

Don't build study center for student-athletes --> complaints of the department's lack of commitment to education for athletes

When you think about the total time commitment student-athletes put into their sports (not just football and basketball), it is really astounding. It is not easy to miss class, make-up tests, study on the road, get reports done -- and prep for games. I think many forget that. These are big responsibilities for 18-22 year-olds.

To have a nice place to study and have computer labs near their facilities is a good thing. And to allow it to be used for other functions that benefits the greater university audience is also a nice advantage.
JSF
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Posted: 9/18/2014 5:26 PM
Again, great responses. Thanks, everyone.
OhioStunter
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Posted: 9/18/2014 5:48 PM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Athletes can't possibly separate themselves from the student population anymore than fraternities and sororities do.
Very true. Who hasn't enjoyed their time at the sorority house version of The Sook Center?
TheBobcatBandit
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Posted: 9/18/2014 5:51 PM
Bobcat Grad 86 wrote:expand_more
In terms of a separate area for student athletes to study, time spent practicing or traveling to road games takes away valuable study time. Having a centrally located facility near the athletic complex makes sense.
They already study and do tutoring at the tower side of Peden. So they have a central place to go, although I'm sure the facilities are very bad. So this will be a nice upgrade. I think this will be great for recruiting and something that parents of recruits will like but in terms of success in the classroom most athletes already get all the help they can get. The tutoring plan they're on is insane (4 hours a day I think) and from talking to tutors most of the issues when it comes to grades are based on laziness or a bad high school education, nothing about the lack of facilities. I mean what really can they put in here that will improve grades? Most kids have laptops so computers are out and for those who don't there're plenty of computers at Alden as well as other places on campus. Besides Computers and tutors. What else does a student need? I'm however still excited about the look of it and that we're trying to help athletes learn and compete with other schools for recruits. I also would like to thank those who donated and I hope it turns out well!!
Last Edited: 9/18/2014 6:00:29 PM by TheBobcatBandit
D.A.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 6:11 PM
TheBobcatBandit wrote:expand_more
In terms of a separate area for student athletes to study, time spent practicing or traveling to road games takes away valuable study time. Having a centrally located facility near the athletic complex makes sense.
They already study and do tutoring at the tower side of Peden. So they have a central place to go, although I'm sure the facilities are very bad. So this will be a nice upgrade. I think this will be great for recruiting and something that parents of recruits will like but in terms of success in the classroom most athletes already get all the help they can get. The tutoring plan they're on is insane (4 hours a day I think) and from talking to tutors most of the issues when it comes to grades are based on laziness or a bad high school education, nothing about the lack of facilities. I mean what really can they put in here that will improve grades? Most kids have laptops so computers are out and for those who don't there're plenty of computers at Alden as well as other places on campus. Besides Computers and tutors. What else does a student need? I'm however still excited about the look of it and that we're trying to help athletes learn and compete with other schools for recruits. I also would like to thank those who donated and I hope it turns out well!!
http://campaignforacademicexcellence.com/

Click on "Solution" on the banner and that will answer most of your questions of what the present state is versus the future state with the new building.
TheBobcatBandit
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Posted: 9/18/2014 6:30 PM
D.A. wrote:expand_more
In terms of a separate area for student athletes to study, time spent practicing or traveling to road games takes away valuable study time. Having a centrally located facility near the athletic complex makes sense.
They already study and do tutoring at the tower side of Peden. So they have a central place to go, although I'm sure the facilities are very bad. So this will be a nice upgrade. I think this will be great for recruiting and something that parents of recruits will like but in terms of success in the classroom most athletes already get all the help they can get. The tutoring plan they're on is insane (4 hours a day I think) and from talking to tutors most of the issues when it comes to grades are based on laziness or a bad high school education, nothing about the lack of facilities. I mean what really can they put in here that will improve grades? Most kids have laptops so computers are out and for those who don't there're plenty of computers at Alden as well as other places on campus. Besides Computers and tutors. What else does a student need? I'm however still excited about the look of it and that we're trying to help athletes learn and compete with other schools for recruits. I also would like to thank those who donated and I hope it turns out well!!
http://campaignforacademicexcellence.com/

Click on "Solution" on the banner and that will answer most of your questions of what the present state is versus the future state with the new building.
Thanks for the info. That will give them a lot of new places private places to study.
Athens
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:08 PM
TheBobcatBandit wrote:expand_more
In terms of a separate area for student athletes to study, time spent practicing or traveling to road games takes away valuable study time. Having a centrally located facility near the athletic complex makes sense.
They already study and do tutoring at the tower side of Peden. So they have a central place to go, although I'm sure the facilities are very bad. So this will be a nice upgrade. I think this will be great for recruiting and something that parents of recruits will like but in terms of success in the classroom most athletes already get all the help they can get. The tutoring plan they're on is insane (4 hours a day I think) and from talking to tutors most of the issues when it comes to grades are based on laziness or a bad high school education, nothing about the lack of facilities. I mean what really can they put in here that will improve grades? Most kids have laptops so computers are out and for those who don't there're plenty of computers at Alden as well as other places on campus. Besides Computers and tutors. What else does a student need? I'm however still excited about the look of it and that we're trying to help athletes learn and compete with other schools for recruits. I also would like to thank those who donated and I hope it turns out well!!
The nice aspect of this new facility beyond the larger specs is its easier to get to at the front of the stadium from South Green Dr. than having to go all the way over to the Tower and up a slow elevator. It will be a more enticing location for the student athlete.
Last Edited: 9/18/2014 9:10:42 PM by Athens
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:32 PM
D.A. wrote:expand_more
- Additionally, being able to have a dual use area for entertainment during events, both alumni and corporate, is an ideal scenario considering the location of the building. OHIO has less than appealing entertainment areas in Peden Tower which are dated and not conducive to entertaining in any significant numbers.
Alumni events means this 5.5 million dollar building is then doubling as an alumni center. There was a plan 10 years ago to build an alumni center over at Tailgreat Park but that fizzled out.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:12 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
I suspect this very generous gift was based on the priorities of the athletics department, but I don't agree with the priorities.

My opinion comes from a position of ignorance with respect to recruiting and the day-to-day life of a student-athlete, so I may well be wrong, but on the face of it this thing just seems excessive for a department running in the red.

I rationally understand "keeping up with the Joneses," but the campus has plenty of classrooms, computer labs, library space, etc. available to all students. I get it, but I don't especially like it. It would rank very low on my priority list. Well behind things like:

- New scoreboard for the Convo
- Practice gym for basketball
- New scoreboard for Peden
- Improvements to the bathrooms in the Convo
- Improvements to the bathrooms in Peden
- Improving the concourse and concession area of Peden

Yes, my list is tilted in favor of basketball, and that's partly a reflection of what interests me most. It's also because Peden is only used a handful of times each year, and I don't see a rosy long-term future for FBS also-rans like MAC schools or football in general. Between the wanton avarice of the NFL and Power 5 and the myriad issues with respect to brain injuries and amateurism, pouring tons of money into Peden seems like a bad long-term bet.
The academic center should go first because it helps recruiting all student athletes. Schaus said in the Post that he expects fundraising will complete for this project within a year. This means shovels may be in the ground as early as 2016. I can see the money coming in for this fairly quickly with the way they are breaking up the naming rights for the project. Schaus was talking about using the naming rights for the Stadium and the Convo toward this a while back but I guess corporate sponsorship was slow to materialize. The point you are making of not pouring too much money into Peden is a good one. That is the way the administration I believe is looking at it else they would have added some seats to the plan while using the academic performance center as a chance of doing something for the stadium. The trend I see with college football stadiums is almost no emphasis on adding capacity as the move to weekday games and higher prices is driving down attendance.Adding facilities to help recruiting is the trend.
Athens
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:33 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
That's a very nice design, and a great addition to the facilities. It really reminds one that academics are an important part of the Ohio program.

If they do redo the bleachers, perhaps they can squeeze in a few hundred more seats for those occasions then the games are sold out, or perhaps the structural design of the center is such that it can support the addition of seats above the center at some point in the future, if needed.
What I like most about the design is its very open at the ground level with an iron gate opening into the field. Game days will be very inviting from the outside and night games will be electric with the academic center lit up.
catfan28
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Posted: 9/18/2014 11:26 PM
Why wouldn't you want all campus units to have a modern, functioning building to support academics? I don't see it being any different than building a new College of Communications building or renovating McCracken. Those projects aren't going to benefit "all students" either...just a small segment of the population. Likewise, this may only benefit athletes - but that comprises 500 students. I think it's worth it whenever you can improve things for that many students...whether it's engineering majors or football players.
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