Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Well,
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Bcat2
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Posted: 9/4/2015 10:55 AM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
My news flash on this is: Irons looks legit and will probably be given some opportunities after last night. However, in watching the replay, I think even I could have scored on that play given the very good blocking of the O-line. Running backs get a lot of credit for breaking tackles, etc and that is fine. In Irons's TD run...it was really pretty easy for him given the surge of the O-line and the number of opponent tacklers on the ground.
Odd man out, Mr. Brown. I fully expect him to have a turn. Mr. Irons played ahead of him. #28 will not be loafing when his turn does come.
Speaker of Truth
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Posted: 9/4/2015 1:06 PM
I think Irons looked great....but where do you see the 10-15 carries coming from?
OUlette looked good
Papi looked good
Daz looked good

Fact of the matter is that we have too many good Rbs...maybe we should trade one for some prospects
GoCats105
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Posted: 9/4/2015 1:24 PM
Since we supposedly have this stable of running backs who we can go to, I would love if Franky lined them up in the Maryland I, the Wishbone, or hell even the Flexbone every once in a while to throw a wrinkle into the game plan.
LuckySparrow
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Posted: 9/4/2015 1:59 PM
All of our RBs looked promising last night. Papi White can catch passes - he looked electric. Sort of a scatback type like Daz. But our O-Line isn't getting enough credit. They are going to be very good this season. And there's depth there because of injuries to starters the past couple of seasons.

Last night the playcalling seemed much more creative than last season, probably since our passing game was able to dominate right off the bat. I'm looking forward to utilizing the stable (love this term) of RBs.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/4/2015 2:04 PM
Papi seemed to have pure speed that no one else has.

Last possession of first half (took over with about 2:50 to go). Couldn't get out of bounds on hardly any of our short sideline passes.
Casper71
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Posted: 9/4/2015 3:39 PM
L.C., I guess I should have said on a real good night in my prime I could have scored on that play. The hole between those two O-line guys was much wider than I have ever been:)

Everyone have a great weekend. If your in cincy, take in the fireworks!
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/4/2015 4:02 PM
Play the best running back(s) the most.
cc-cat
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Posted: 9/4/2015 4:46 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Play the best running back(s) the most.
Based on last year and last night...we are. And with four solid ones we should run more two back sets. 😉
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/4/2015 5:28 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Play the best running back(s) the most.
Based on last year and last night...we are. And with four solid ones we should run more two back sets. 😉
Kinda obvious, isn't it.

First, such as Papi can be an effective receiver out of backfield so we don't entirely give up a receiver.

Second, pounding ground game seems ideal in an era of lighter db's (more geared to stop passing than run).

Third, playing our best guys, playing to our strength seems most geared to winning...which is best for recruiting.

On the hoped-for, though maybe slight, chance that one of our running backs is a true stud, ya think O-line prospects might be attracted by that?
L.C.
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Posted: 9/4/2015 5:50 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
L.C., I guess I should have said on a real good night in my prime I could have scored on that play. The hole between those two O-line guys was much wider than I have ever been:)

Everyone have a great weekend. If your in cincy, take in the fireworks!

Hehe. Well, I never have been wide, but I didn't have the speed, which was why I played line. Speaking of the line, I was watching some of the highlights, and breaking down the blocking, etc.

On AJ's nice run, the blocking was excellent. The left side of the line blocked down, and let the DE crash where he got mowed down by a pulling Wood. Heitzman led the blocking outside of Lucas-McQueen, and took out the OLB on that side, and AJ cut inside. There were four DB's with a shot at stopping the TD. Cope and Reid each took out one, and an official took out a third one. Smith wasn't able to block his man, and that was the only guy able to get between AJ and the endzone. The play was very well executed all the way around, but the gain probably should have been somewhat less. Their #1 should have made the tackle about 10 yards earlier, but ran right into the official.

On Irons' run, it was well blocked by the left side of the line, and as you said, there was a hole between Lucas and McQueen. Behind them should have been the CB, #1. Brunis didn't even attempt to block him, but went inside and cut down a Safety. Never noticing that it wasn't a pass play, #1 was trying to cover Brunis man on man, and chased Brunis all the way to the Safety, by which time it was far, far too late for #1 to even wave at Irons. It was blocked well, but it would have been a nice 7-8 yard gain if #1 had been paying attention.

On the drive with Patterson running, the Idaho defense just looked tired, and of course, Daz had fresh legs. The offensive line was consistently moving the tired defensive line back, and the DBs were slow to fill, and when they did get to Daz, Daz was knocking them back. Maybe they thought he was still 177, like the announcers did, but he was consistently making yards after contact.

Now, looking at their highlighted runs, first the one-yard run. Ohio was overshifted to the left side, inviting them to run right, which they did. Porter and Tautuaiki tied up the middle, but because of the overshift only Blair Brown and Kylan Nelson were in position to make the play. Blair crashed inside was was blocked. Kylan made the tackle, but couldn't keep the big back out of the endzone. There were no major breakdowns, just a play that gave up 3 yards when they could only afford to give up 1. I give credit to Idaho for executing.

On their other highlighted run, a 5 yard run by Penny from the 6, Idaho caught Ohio in a blitz by Daugherty. Purdum and Tautuaiki stuffed the Idaho line, but couldn't tackle Penny, who was able to spin off the pile, and run outside, into the space vacated by Daugherty. Nelson took the wrong angle, and missed the tackle, which ultimately was made by Poling and Layton when Penny was slowed down by one of his teammates.

On the whole, in looking at these highlights I see mostly good things by Ohio, even on the Idaho highlights. There are certainly things to work on, but I'm feeling right now like this season is off to a good start, and that there is a lot of good football ahead.
L.C.
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Posted: 9/5/2015 9:46 AM
UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Did Irons get on the field?
I missed the second half unfortunately but it looks like Irons had two carries for 21 yards. ESPN's box score mistakenly credits those to defensive #21, Kylan Nelson.
Oddly enough, Ohiobobcats.com also has Nelson carrying the ball. You'd think the school website would get it right. At least the ESPN announcers knew who it was.
The home team does the scoring. I'm sure that will get corrected.

I think Irons has a ton of potential, too. I think he should get more carries, and I think he will. But Ohio's offensive line just dominated in the fourth quarter. I don't think it would have mattered who was at running back.

The box score is a mess, to be honest. It does shows Irons with the TD run, but Nelson has credit for the 4 yard gain on the play before. The participation report shows that Duckworth and Windham both played. I suppose they could have been on the "hands" team to field the onside kick, but other than that I don't know when they might have played. Meanwhile, it shows that Purdum didn't play, and I just saw his number on one of the highlights. Then there are a couple Freshmen, Addrell Taylor and Evan Croutch who are listed as having played. Did they play? Who knows.
cbarber357
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Posted: 9/5/2015 10:31 AM
I think Papi White looks more like he should be lined up at reciever for some quick slant or screen passes, Daz can return kicks and punts and pick up a few carries, and Ouellette should be our workhorse. There was no way that was enough to see if Irons is good. Anyone could have scored on his TD run with that blocking and we know AJ is a capable pass protector and has good hands. No idea if Irons can do either.
Last Edited: 9/5/2015 10:32:08 AM by cbarber357
Bcat2
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Posted: 9/5/2015 10:35 AM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Did Irons get on the field?
I missed the second half unfortunately but it looks like Irons had two carries for 21 yards. ESPN's box score mistakenly credits those to defensive #21, Kylan Nelson.
Oddly enough, Ohiobobcats.com also has Nelson carrying the ball. You'd think the school website would get it right. At least the ESPN announcers knew who it was.
The home team does the scoring. I'm sure that will get corrected.

I think Irons has a ton of potential, too. I think he should get more carries, and I think he will. But Ohio's offensive line just dominated in the fourth quarter. I don't think it would have mattered who was at running back.

The box score is a mess, to be honest. It does shows Irons with the TD run, but Nelson has credit for the 4 yard gain on the play before. The participation report shows that Duckworth and Windham both played. I suppose they could have been on the "hands" team to field the onside kick, but other than that I don't know when they might have played. Meanwhile, it shows that Purdum didn't play, and I just saw his number on one of the highlights. Then there are a couple Freshmen, Addrell Taylor and Evan Croutch who are listed as having played. Did they play? Who knows.

L.C. Just a thought. Who holds for field goals?
Bcat2
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Posted: 9/5/2015 10:40 AM
Question. You are the Marshall DC. After film study, do you load the box, play cover or what? Monroe?
L.C.
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Posted: 9/5/2015 10:51 AM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
L.C. Just a thought. Who holds for field goals?

Bonnstetter is the holder.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/5/2015 11:43 AM
Agree that the sample size is too small on Irons. Only one way to find out.

If I'm stupd cow, I concentrate on stopping the run. That's almost always the first principle. Plus we haven't shown that we consistently have the qb'ing and passing game to make that a must-stop.

Show me that our passing game can fairly regularly hit when guys aren't wide open and on gotta-have-it long yardage situations and I'll gain confidence that we can MACC.
Last Edited: 9/5/2015 11:44:30 AM by Monroe Slavin
The Optimist
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Posted: 9/6/2015 9:15 AM
Per Arkley, Irons had a 2-quarter suspension for violation of team rules...
allen
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Posted: 9/6/2015 11:24 AM
Sorry coaches,

I now see why Irons was only used at the end of the game. He needs 2-3 consecutive series to see what he can do.
Bcat2
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Posted: 9/6/2015 1:19 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
Sorry coaches,

I now see why Irons was only used at the end of the game. He needs 2-3 consecutive series to see what he can do.
Way to man up allen. There will always be real knowledge that coaches use to manage that we will never be aware of. If I ever act like I know more than the coaches please call me on it.
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Posted: 9/6/2015 10:07 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
If I ever act like I know more than the coaches please call me on it.
I agree, Bcat2. I know that my knowledge of the Xs and Os of football is quite limited. That doesn't mean that in the heat of passion I won't sometimes criticize a particular play or formation. I still think it would be good to go under center for 3rd (and 4th) and short situations. I also think we should have gone for the tie and OT at Marshall a few years ago instead of the failed two-point conversion. I said so to my wife and others in the stands before the failed attempt. But, in the grand scheme of things I realize that Frank & Company know a lot more about this game than I do and give them due deference.
L.C.
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Posted: 9/6/2015 10:33 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
...I also think we should have gone for the tie and OT at Marshall a few years ago instead of the failed two-point conversion. I said so to my wife and others in the stands before the failed attempt. But, in the grand scheme of things I realize that Frank & Company know a lot more about this game than I do and give them due deference.

I think the odds slightly favor going for the tie, and overtime, but the coaches have insights that we don't about a variety of things. One is how tired they think their players are, and the other team's players. Another is if they have a strong feeling that some play or other is going to be successful. I may second guess them about a lot of things, but that isn't one of them.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 9/7/2015 11:42 AM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
...I also think we should have gone for the tie and OT at Marshall a few years ago instead of the failed two-point conversion. I said so to my wife and others in the stands before the failed attempt. But, in the grand scheme of things I realize that Frank & Company know a lot more about this game than I do and give them due deference.

I think the odds slightly favor going for the tie, and overtime, but the coaches have insights that we don't about a variety of things. One is how tired they think their players are, and the other team's players. Another is if they have a strong feeling that some play or other is going to be successful. I may second guess them about a lot of things, but that isn't one of them.

Slightly, L.C.? I'm pretty sure I'm close when I observe that 2-pt attempts succeed only about a third. Every time I see a coach go for two when a tie would send the game to OT, I'm silently screaming, "Coach, give your kids who've just rallied the best chance of winning. That's OT!"
The Optimist
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Posted: 9/7/2015 1:15 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
Slightly, L.C.? I'm pretty sure I'm close when I observe that 2-pt attempts succeed only about a third. Every time I see a coach go for two when a tie would send the game to OT, I'm silently screaming, "Coach, give your kids who've just rallied the best chance of winning. That's OT!"

I cannot speak to what you have observed in your sample of games, but nationally the statistics do not back up your claims. I believe your 1/3 success rate is extremely low.

I've seen article after article on this matter. I'll stick with just two examples.
This article points to a 47.9% success rate in the NFL on 2-point conversions.
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2013/01/t...

This article points to a 42% success rate in college on 2-point conversions.
http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-12-04/when-the-...

With that considered, I'm a strong proponent of going for 2 late in the game to get the win and bypass overtime. The statistics on this issue do not lie. I always will defend a coach who goes for two and the team does not convert. I respect the guts of the coach to take that chance knowing their decision is going to be heavily criticized if they are not successful. In that situation, the blame always falls squarely on the coach. A coach willing to shoulder that blame deserves some praise.

At the same time, I am willing to accept a coach's choice to kick the XP and play for overtime IF they present an argument that they felt the opponent was more fatigued than they were and they felt that gave them an extreme advantage in OT. While I accept that argument, that situation doesn't happen enough to excuse all the extra points kicked.

GO FOR 2!
L.C.
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Posted: 9/7/2015 1:57 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
...This article points to a 47.9% success rate in the NFL on 2-point conversions.
...
This article points to a 42% success rate in college on 2-point conversions.
..

These numbers are consistent with what I thought, which is that it's about a 45% chance. That's what I was thinking when I said that the numbers slightly favored going for the tie, but that they were close enough that a coach's decision either way could be defended.

I think Mike is right, too. I think that the odds a decade or two ago were closer to 1/3. The rules changes over the years have universally been in favor of more offense, and I suspect that if you looked at the success rate by year, you'd find that the success rate on 2-point conversions has been steadily rising.
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Posted: 9/7/2015 4:08 PM
Re 2 point conversions:

My all-time favorite game (not just because it was my first date with my wife of 34 years) was at Ohio Stadium in 1976, the only time I was there. Woody Hayes's team had a 25 game home winning streak and was No. 2 in the nation, playing my alma mater, Mizzou, a mediocre team who had just lost their qb in a 31-6 home loss to another mediocre team, Illinois.

Mizzou hung around with a qb starting his 1st game ever. Right at the end of the game, the Tigers scored and were now behind 21-20. They could have kicked and gotten a tie back then but Mizzou coach 'Uncle' Al Onofrio went for the 2 point conversion, didn't get it but a defensive hold gave them a 2nd chance and they converted on a qb sneak and got what's considered one of their greatest wins ever.
Last Edited: 9/7/2015 4:38:19 PM by stub
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