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Topic: timeout and a delay of game
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OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:01 PM
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I have a dilemma -- do I believe the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, where many of my uncles worked way back in the day -- or do I believe the expert testimony of Alan Swank? The further question I have is from what angle was the video that Alan looked at, and from what angle did the Star-Tribune make its call.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:10 PM
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Here's what the Star-Tribune said about the final seconds of the game and FG attempt:

"This time, Ohio’s Daz Patterson returned the kickoff to the Minnesota 43. Three plays later, Ohio lined up a 53-yard field goal attempt with 7 seconds remaining. But the Gophers called timeout, and kicker Josiah Yazdani was flagged for delay of game after drilling the ball through the uprights."

Upon further review in my brain, I've decided to confirm the call on the field of the Star-Tribune.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:18 PM
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Victory wrote:expand_more
Question: From my vantage point -- at the other end of the field -- it looked like Yaz's "practice kick" (the one that cost us the dubious delay of game penalty) went through the uprights and would have been good. Can anyone with a better vantage point confirm or refute this?
Yes. Minnesota Star-Tribune confirms that "Delay Of Game" kick WAS GOOD.

"kicker Josiah Yazdani was flagged for delay of game after drilling the ball through the uprights."

And even Minnesota's coach has never seen that call. "Kill said he couldn’t ever remember seeing that penalty called on a kicker. It pushed Ohio back to the 41."

Solich also says he made a mistake doing hail mary and should have tried kick from 58

http://www.startribune.com/gophers-score-on-final-drive-t... /
I think it was "left" of the "right" goal post



Just watched the replay in slow motion. the kick was wide left.
Thanks, This is how I remembered it but so many people had sources saying that it was good that I assumed that I had "misremembered" and didn't say anything.
Victory
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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:21 PM
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http://uproxx.com/sports/2015/09/ohio-minnesota-field-goa... /

That isn't 100% conclusive but if it went through I think we'd see the ball come back down in the video before it cuts out. Unless I'm wrong the B10 Network TV shot was wider than on the webpage and you could see that it hooked wide.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/28/2015 2:11 AM
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Wait a minute. That video shows that Yaz kicked under no pressure. Now hitting from 53 is marvelous at any point. But thinking that he'd have hit from that distance if Minne was lined up and actually contesting the FG attempt is a whole different thing.

Here it comes. I'm going to get tarred and feathered for even suggesting that. But, c'mon.
Last Edited: 9/28/2015 2:15:30 AM by Monroe Slavin
Alan Swank
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Posted: 9/28/2015 7:44 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Here's what the Star-Tribune said about the final seconds of the game and FG attempt:

"This time, Ohio’s Daz Patterson returned the kickoff to the Minnesota 43. Three plays later, Ohio lined up a 53-yard field goal attempt with 7 seconds remaining. But the Gophers called timeout, and kicker Josiah Yazdani was flagged for delay of game after drilling the ball through the uprights."

Upon further review in my brain, I've decided to confirm the call on the field of the Star-Tribune.
If you watch the video below, the entire game from BTN, you can see at 133 minutes and 50 seconds the whole thing unfold - the call for a timeout, most players stopping and standing up, the hike and the kick. At the 54 to 56 second mark you can see the ball miss wide left in the upper right hand corner of your screen. The nice part about this video is that you can watch in very clear slow motion.

http://www.btn2go.com/game/ohio-at-minnesota-on-09262015
L.C.
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Posted: 9/28/2015 10:23 AM
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It doesn't matter at all if he made it or missed it because it never could have counted anyway. The only thing that does matter, sort of, is whether it had the distance, which it did. With his groin injury I was doubtful whether he still had the range to even have a chance, but since the practice kick got there, presumably a live kick would have, too.

He might have made it, he might have missed it, or it might have been blocked, if he had been given a chance to try, but we'll never know. The ending would have been much more satisfactory if it had been decided on the field, by the players, and not by the officials.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/28/2015 10:47 AM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Here's what the Star-Tribune said about the final seconds of the game and FG attempt:

"This time, Ohio’s Daz Patterson returned the kickoff to the Minnesota 43. Three plays later, Ohio lined up a 53-yard field goal attempt with 7 seconds remaining. But the Gophers called timeout, and kicker Josiah Yazdani was flagged for delay of game after drilling the ball through the uprights."

Upon further review in my brain, I've decided to confirm the call on the field of the Star-Tribune.
If you watch the video below, the entire game from BTN, you can see at 133 minutes and 50 seconds the whole thing unfold - the call for a timeout, most players stopping and standing up, the hike and the kick. At the 54 to 56 second mark you can see the ball miss wide left in the upper right hand corner of your screen. The nice part about this video is that you can watch in very clear slow motion.

http://www.btn2go.com/game/ohio-at-minnesota-on-09262015
I watched that video in slo-mo several times. I doesn't seem conclusive to me. It was at a slight angle to the right (camera placement) and the ball disappears out of view at the crucial time. I wonder what angle the Star-Tribune reporter viewed it from. Probably on the opposite side of the field from where I was up in the press box. It's academic, because of the TO, and doesn't really tell us if he would have made it or not on a second "real try" from the same spot. Unfortunately, we'll never know because of the creative penalty calling of the B1G officials.
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Posted: 9/28/2015 11:37 AM
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OCF, despite what the Minnesota tabloids say the kick was missed.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/28/2015 11:46 AM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
OCF, despite what the Minnesota tabloids say the kick was missed.
Is this from personal observation on the field? Or, from viewing the BTN video with its off-angle shot? Or, just from your general omniscience?
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Posted: 9/28/2015 12:39 PM
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Even grantland.com is covering the kick at the end of their column and can't believe it.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/college-football-week-4... /
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Posted: 9/28/2015 12:58 PM
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I'm throwing this call in there with the "roughing the snapper" call we got hit with against Akron (at home!) a few years back....
L.C.
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Posted: 9/28/2015 1:16 PM
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Has anyone seen any articles that mention this call ever being made before? All the ones that I've seen say they have never seen it.

OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
... It's academic, because of the TO, and doesn't really tell us if he would have made it or not on a second "real try" from the same spot. Unfortunately, we'll never know because of the creative penalty calling of the B1G officials.

As a perfect example of that, at the end of the first half against Marshall, Yazdani attempted a FG, and Marshall called timeout. Yazdani kicked the ball anyway, as is normally done, and his practice kick was good. After timeout, however, his live try was missed.
Last Edited: 9/28/2015 1:19:00 PM by L.C.
shabamon
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Posted: 9/28/2015 1:24 PM
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I posed this situation to a high school referee on another forum and he suggested that this is a clearly written rule in high school. Also, it makes sense to think that Minnesota is calling a timeout soon enough in hopes of preventing a practice kick.

I watched the game from a bar without sound. The vine doesn't give a complete view of camera angle, but my initial thought when I watched the game was that it wasn't a bang-bang sequence; that there was a bit of time between the timeout being signaled and when the ball was snapped. Now, we're talking maybe two seconds tops here.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/28/2015 1:57 PM
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When they threw the flag I thought they were going to say that Minne scored a safety on us.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/28/2015 2:19 PM
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This whole fiasco is one of many reasons I'd wish they'd go back to the old rule that only a player on the field could call a TO.
OUVan
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Posted: 9/28/2015 2:51 PM
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sargentfan wrote:expand_more
Even grantland.com is covering the kick at the end of their column and can't believe it.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/college-football-week-4... /
Look how quickly the flag appears on the screen in the video. That ref was dying to make that call. If you listen closely you probably hear him say "Ski-U-Mah"
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Posted: 9/28/2015 3:03 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
OCF, despite what the Minnesota tabloids say the kick was missed.
Is this from personal observation on the field? Or, from viewing the BTN video with its off-angle shot? Or, just from your general omniscience?
Yes it doesn't matter if he made it or not in the whole scheme of things but if you watch the video you can clearly see at the 133 minute and 56 seconds point the ball is way left of the upright. I really can't provide any more precise evidence than that.
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Posted: 9/28/2015 3:11 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
OCF, despite what the Minnesota tabloids say the kick was missed.
Is this from personal observation on the field? Or, from viewing the BTN video with its off-angle shot? Or, just from your general omniscience?
Yes it doesn't matter if he made it or not in the whole scheme of things but if you watch the video you can clearly see at the 133 minute and 56 seconds point the ball is way left of the upright. I really can't provide any more precise evidence than that.
The kick was missed
El Gato Roberto
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Posted: 9/28/2015 3:52 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
OCF, despite what the Minnesota tabloids say the kick was missed.
Is this from personal observation on the field? Or, from viewing the BTN video with its off-angle shot? Or, just from your general omniscience?
Yes it doesn't matter if he made it or not in the whole scheme of things but if you watch the video you can clearly see at the 133 minute and 56 seconds point the ball is way left of the upright. I really can't provide any more precise evidence than that.
The kick was missed
with all due respect, the game was lost well before the kick. I am willing to accept this loss for what it is (not what it might have been) and move on. Lots of football left for this team - I am anxious to see how they build on their first four games. go ohio!
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/28/2015 4:35 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
OCF, despite what the Minnesota tabloids say the kick was missed.
Is this from personal observation on the field? Or, from viewing the BTN video with its off-angle shot? Or, just from your general omniscience?
Yes it doesn't matter if he made it or not in the whole scheme of things but if you watch the video you can clearly see at the 133 minute and 56 seconds point the ball is way left of the upright. I really can't provide any more precise evidence than that.
The kick was missed
If you're looking at the BTN video it is not conclusive. It is not a straight on shot from the back of the end zone, it's angled from the right in terms of camera placement. If you have another video from a better angle please post the link. Thanks.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 9/28/2015 10:22 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
OCF, despite what the Minnesota tabloids say the kick was missed.
Is this from personal observation on the field? Or, from viewing the BTN video with its off-angle shot? Or, just from your general omniscience?
Yes it doesn't matter if he made it or not in the whole scheme of things but if you watch the video you can clearly see at the 133 minute and 56 seconds point the ball is way left of the upright. I really can't provide any more precise evidence than that.
The kick was missed
If you're looking at the BTN video it is not conclusive. It is not a straight on shot from the back of the end zone, it's angled from the right in terms of camera placement. If you have another video from a better angle please post the link. Thanks.
I was not looking at the Big10 Network shot and I had a much better view than the sports writers in the press box. I also have a much better understanding of the game. But believe what you will, if you want to believe the kick was good and for some reason that matters have at it! And I hope you get a department shuttle on your next Bowl trip.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/28/2015 10:42 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
. . . . I was not looking at the Big10 Network shot and I had a much better view than the sports writers in the press box. I also have a much better understanding of the game. But believe what you will, if you want to believe the kick was good and for some reason that matters have at it! And I hope you get a department shuttle on your next Bowl trip.
Pray tell where were you sitting that gave you such a wonderful spot on view? Perhaps you were sitting in the end zone? Inquiring minds want to know. You don't have credibility on this issue unless you give us a bit more detail. As I said at the beginning of this discussion, it is an academic debate, as it wouldn't have counted if good because of the time out. For some unknown reason -- perhaps personal enmity against me -- you seem to be making a big issue about it by stating definitively that you know the ball did not pass between the uprights when others, whose job it was to report on the game, saw it differently. You offer no video to support your position. So, why in the world would I believe you over the Star-Tribune reporters in the press box? You may be an expert on the rules; in fact, you clearly know more about the rules than anyone else on the board, but that does not mean that you are right . . . or wrong . . . on this matter. Believe what you want, but your credibility is certainly lacking here.
Last Edited: 9/28/2015 10:44:24 PM by OhioCatFan
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 9/28/2015 10:56 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . . I was not looking at the Big10 Network shot and I had a much better view than the sports writers in the press box. I also have a much better understanding of the game. But believe what you will, if you want to believe the kick was good and for some reason that matters have at it! And I hope you get a department shuttle on your next Bowl trip.
Pray tell where were you sitting that gave you such a wonderful spot on view? Perhaps you were sitting in the end zone? Inquiring minds want to know. You don't have credibility on this issue unless you give us a bit more detail. As I said at the beginning of this discussion, it is an academic debate, as it wouldn't have counted if good because of the time out. For some unknown reason -- perhaps personal enmity against me -- you seem to be making a big issue about it by stating definitively that you know the ball did not pass between the uprights when others, whose job it was to report on the game, saw it differently. You offer no video to support your position. So, why in the world would I believe you over the Star-Tribune reporters in the press box? You may be an expert on the rules; in fact, you clearly know more about the rules than anyone else on the board, but that does not mean that you are right . . . or wrong . . . on this matter. Believe what you want, but your credibility is certainly lacking here.
How about, I was not sitting anywhere, but rather standing under something that is painted bright yellow. And the story from the Paper sounds a lot better with the drama created by the headline and story. Funny, if this was Chuck Landon you would not be upholding the integrity of journalism ;-)

And you point out the validity of Star-Tribune reporters sitting in a press box, over a camera that you can slow down and see if there is a shadow over the upright, simply because the camera is not on center, but the guy at the to of the stadium sitting at a sideways angle "knows". That's laughable, and now I understand why you taught at Marshall.
Last Edited: 9/28/2015 10:58:31 PM by BillyTheCat
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Posted: 9/28/2015 11:04 PM
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How was it explained that Ohio delayed the game? Minnesota called a time out so the game was stopped, so no delay there. Obviously was not the only football. Ohio did not do anything to actually or technically delay the game, which refers to actions that might cause the time to stop or not putting the ball into play in a certain amount of time after it is declared ready for play.

Therefore I don't believe even the rule book would support the call...except if it was viewed as a deliberate act to delay the game...which it obviously was not. If it is an interpretation then it is a goofy one and one that should be pulled.

And the idea that it would be called at the end of game shows an obvious intent to influence the outcome of the game. The officiating team for this game should be suspended. Or at least be sent back to officiate intramurals like all of us had to do.
Last Edited: 9/28/2015 11:06:05 PM by 1stInConvo
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