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bshot44
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Posted: 10/21/2015 2:06 PM
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For all those fans wondering why there are some of us a tad bit frustrated with the outcome last Saturday vs. WMU.....and for that matter, the last few years vs. upper-level MAC competition.....

I give you this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A42S5-sCIAE_gV0.jpg:large

Take a look...this is what we were "supposed" to ascend to.

Are we? No.

Could we have? I think so.

But we didn't. We stayed flat....or you could even say we've dipped.

We were on the brink of national relevance....it was in our grasp.....and it slipped away....and with every 49-14 loss to a "good" MAC team, it slips further and further away.
GoCats105
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Posted: 10/21/2015 3:09 PM
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Ohio is 20-18 since that article came out, FWIW.
bshot44
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Posted: 10/21/2015 3:51 PM
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GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Ohio is 20-18 since that article came out, FWIW.
Exactly. Not BCS-Buster material
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Posted: 10/21/2015 4:28 PM
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I was sitting behind WMU in the Phillips Section the entire game. I watched the WMU coaches more than I watched the game. Man was I impressed with their demeanor, excitement, intensity and focus. That group of men are hungry and it transfers to their players. I am very impressed by how they handled themselves. I couldn't help but wonder if we haven't lost that edge.
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Posted: 10/21/2015 4:51 PM
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I'll repeat my message from another thread: Every year we read about how Frank travels around to learn from other coaching staffs. He's willing to question how our guys prepare for games, condition, eat...you name it. But he'll never question the performance of his assistants. The folks at BG, NIU, WMU, CMU and even Kent must be hugely grateful for Frank's loyalty to Tim Albin. And if you were the father of an elite high school QB, would you send your son to play in this system?
Last Edited: 10/21/2015 5:06:23 PM by SBH
Bcat2
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Posted: 10/21/2015 5:28 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
I'll repeat my message from another thread: Every year we read about how Frank travels around to learn from other coaching staffs. He's willing to question how our guys prepare for games, condition, eat...you name it. But he'll never question the performance of his assistants. The folks at BG, NIU, WMU, CMU and even Kent must be hugely grateful for Frank's loyalty to Tim Albin. And if you were the father of an elite high school QB, would you send your son to play in this system?
If I had the influence and caring most about the leadership he might receive over 4/5 years, yes. "More Than Winning." Pitt, Penn State, Marshall, ULM, the system is fine when the players are whole and healthy.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 10/21/2015 6:08 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
I'll repeat my message from another thread: Every year we read about how Frank travels around to learn from other coaching staffs. He's willing to question how our guys prepare for games, condition, eat...you name it. But he'll never question the performance of his assistants. The folks at BG, NIU, WMU, CMU and even Kent must be hugely grateful for Frank's loyalty to Tim Albin. And if you were the father of an elite high school QB, would you send your son to play in this system?
When an undersized but capable above average QB like TT can put up numbers like he did, I would think a quarterback would be smart to think that OHIO equals a huge opportunity. Unfortunately, kids don't like opportunity, they like guarantees.
Last Edited: 10/22/2015 9:23:12 AM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 10/21/2015 6:50 PM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
When and undersized but capable above average QB like TT can put up numbers like he did, I would think a quarterback would be smart to think that OHIO equals a huge opportunity. Unfortunately, kids don't like opportunity, they like guarantees.

You are right, DCF. To a certain extent it is a chicken-and-egg problem. If Ohio does get an NFL caliber QB at some point, he will put up some good numbers, and then suddenly other good QBs will be more attracted. It's not like Frank is running the old I-formation option offense that he ran at Nebraska where they normally threw the ball 8-20 times a game, and never, ever threw it 50 times.
LuckySparrow
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Posted: 10/21/2015 7:29 PM
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I think about the 2012 season and what could have been quite often. Interestingly enough, I kept myself from reading that article when it was published in SI. Not sure why. Maybe I was saving it for a rainy day?
bobcat695
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Posted: 10/21/2015 8:28 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
And if you were the father of an elite high school QB, would you send your son to play in this system?
If only there was an elite QB prospect near Ohio that had intimate knowledge of how great things were with the program? That guy's dad might casually know Solich, or even have an office right next door to him in the same Tower. That would be such an easy recruit to land.
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Posted: 10/21/2015 8:50 PM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
And if you were the father of an elite high school QB, would you send your son to play in this system?
If only there was an elite QB prospect near Ohio that had intimate knowledge of how great things were with the program? That guy's dad might casually know Solich, or even have an office right next door to him in the same Tower. That would be such an easy recruit to land.
Idk, no amount of money could have convinced me to go to college in my hometown. Now, granted, my hometown was Springfield Ohio (Wittenberg, [shudder]) rather than Athens, but I think it's silly to ignore the "i want to go away to school" aspect
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Posted: 10/21/2015 8:55 PM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I'll repeat my message from another thread: Every year we read about how Frank travels around to learn from other coaching staffs. He's willing to question how our guys prepare for games, condition, eat...you name it. But he'll never question the performance of his assistants. The folks at BG, NIU, WMU, CMU and even Kent must be hugely grateful for Frank's loyalty to Tim Albin. And if you were the father of an elite high school QB, would you send your son to play in this system?
If I had the influence and caring most about the leadership he might receive over 4/5 years, yes. "More Than Winning." Pitt, Penn State, Marshall, ULM, the system is fine when the players are whole and healthy.
1) False. 2) Nice use of injury excuse/denial of staff's responsibility re same.


Of the 20-18 since that article, please state record if take away games against really horrid teams.


Oh, 20-18 is okay. It's only 38 games. It's not fair to judge on only recent and to 'exclude 73%' before that.

Clue: State three workplaces in 2015 anywhere which will keep employed CEO who was okay for a while but last 3 years have included some stunningly bad.
Last Edited: 10/21/2015 9:08:19 PM by Monroe Slavin
Alan Swank
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Posted: 10/21/2015 9:14 PM
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Seems like a logical place to throw this in:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/mac/2015/10/20... /
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 10/21/2015 9:27 PM
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bshot44 wrote:expand_more
For all those fans wondering why there are some of us a tad bit frustrated with the outcome last Saturday vs. WMU.....and for that matter, the last few years vs. upper-level MAC competition.....

I give you this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A42S5-sCIAE_gV0.jpg:large

Take a look...this is what we were "supposed" to ascend to.

Are we? No.

Could we have? I think so.

But we didn't. We stayed flat....or you could even say we've dipped.

We were on the brink of national relevance....it was in our grasp.....and it slipped away....and with every 49-14 loss to a "good" MAC team, it slips further and further away.
I blame Sports Illustrated.
Bcat2
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Posted: 10/21/2015 9:27 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Seems like a logical place to throw this in:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/mac/2015/10/20... /
Transfer QB from Alabama. Toledo former coaches Nick Saben & Gary Pinkel. Keeping Toledo rolling, nothing like winning at Ohio.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 10/22/2015 8:22 AM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Seems like a logical place to throw this in:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/mac/2015/10/20... /
Transfer QB from Alabama. Toledo former coaches Nick Saben & Gary Pinkel. Keeping Toledo rolling, nothing like winning at Ohio.
Let's see - transfer from Michigan State. Former coaches Danny Nee and John Gross. Winning at Ohio. It can be done.
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 10/22/2015 9:40 AM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Seems like a logical place to throw this in:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/mac/2015/10/20... /
Transfer QB from Alabama. Toledo former coaches Nick Saben & Gary Pinkel. Keeping Toledo rolling, nothing like winning at Ohio.
Let's see - transfer from Michigan State. Former coaches Danny Nee and John Gross. Winning at Ohio. It can be done.
Gone from Athens only a few short years and we already forgot how to spell his name? At least you didn't spell it Danny Knee.
71 BOBCAT
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Posted: 10/22/2015 9:53 AM
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Who says that c coaches QB son doesn't transfer to his Dads school after learning that he more than likely won't see any PT during his 4 years?
In today's world if your great you will be identified and receive all the press for that great play, ask that former Miami or NIU QB no matter where you are playing.






GO BOBCATS
Maryland Bobcat
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Posted: 10/22/2015 10:44 AM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I'll repeat my message from another thread: Every year we read about how Frank travels around to learn from other coaching staffs. He's willing to question how our guys prepare for games, condition, eat...you name it. But he'll never question the performance of his assistants. The folks at BG, NIU, WMU, CMU and even Kent must be hugely grateful for Frank's loyalty to Tim Albin. And if you were the father of an elite high school QB, would you send your son to play in this system?

"Pitt, Penn State, Marshall, ULM, the system is fine when the players are whole and healthy."
Are these four wins what we're hanging our hat on? Yes, they were good wins, and for our program they were major steps forward, but let's be somewhat realistic. Pitt was a mess that season under Wannstedt (5-6), Penn St. was a terrible mess when we played them, and we beat a second-place team from the Sun Belt playing in their first bowl game. The Marshall wins I will give you as very good, but still....CUSA.

If the discussion is just about whether it's a good program or not, or would we rather have our current situation than the way it used to be then it's an easy debate. If the topic is "Becoming the next Boise State", however, then I think we have to question the progress this program has made the last few years. It's clearly not progressing. Simply making bowl games these days is not a great measure of accomplishment when every program over .500 does the same.

Ohio's record for the second half of the season the past six years. It's not trending in our favor, and you can almost sense what is on the horizon for the back half of this season. It seems to be injuries getting to us every year, but can we blame that every season? Where is the depth?

2009: 5-1
2010: 5-1
2011: 5-1
2012: 2-4
2013: 3-3
2014: 3-3

The program in its current state is not an elite one in the MAC. It is a consistent one, though. We've settled into what I like to call us the VT of the MAC. Frank Beamer built a great program, and they are pretty good year in and year out. They just aren't great. They have a good fan base, good attendance, and make their bowl game every year. The question is it worth risking that consistency to try and achieve the next step? Are sounding like Nebraska fans just before they let Solich go?
Last Edited: 10/22/2015 10:52:06 AM by Maryland Bobcat
GoCats105
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Posted: 10/22/2015 11:11 AM
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Maryland Bobcat wrote:expand_more
I'll repeat my message from another thread: Every year we read about how Frank travels around to learn from other coaching staffs. He's willing to question how our guys prepare for games, condition, eat...you name it. But he'll never question the performance of his assistants. The folks at BG, NIU, WMU, CMU and even Kent must be hugely grateful for Frank's loyalty to Tim Albin. And if you were the father of an elite high school QB, would you send your son to play in this system?

"Pitt, Penn State, Marshall, ULM, the system is fine when the players are whole and healthy."
Are these four wins what we're hanging our hat on? Yes, they were good wins, and for our program they were major steps forward, but let's be somewhat realistic. Pitt was a mess that season under Wannstedt (5-6), Penn St. was a terrible mess when we played them, and we beat a second-place team from the Sun Belt playing in their first bowl game. The Marshall wins I will give you as very good, but still....CUSA.

If the discussion is just about whether it's a good program or not, or would we rather have our current situation than the way it used to be then it's an easy debate. If the topic is "Becoming the next Boise State", however, then I think we have to question the progress this program has made the last few years. It's clearly not progressing. Simply making bowl games these days is not a great measure of accomplishment when every program over .500 does the same.

Ohio's record for the second half of the season the past six years. It's not trending in our favor, and you can almost sense what is on the horizon for the back half of this season. It seems to be injuries getting to us every year, but can we blame that every season? Where is the depth?

2009: 5-1
2010: 5-1
2011: 5-1
2012: 2-4
2013: 3-3
2014: 3-3

The program in its current state is not an elite one in the MAC. It is a consistent one, though. We've settled into what I like to call us the VT of the MAC. Frank Beamer built a great program, and they are pretty good year in and year out. They just aren't great. They have a good fan base, good attendance, and make their bowl game every year. The question is it worth risking that consistency to try and achieve the next step? Are sounding like Nebraska fans just before they let Solich go?
+1

The only counterpoint I have is it took Boise State a long time to get where they are today. First they had to move to FBS, then after winning the WAC for a long time and upsetting Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl, they still had to gain some respect by going and beating teams either on the road or in a netural site.

Still, your points are valid.

I think another thing people don't realize or care to think about is how do you think that article was taken by the other schools in our conference? Northern Illinois probably looked at that and said "Ohio? Why not US?" I certainly would have if I was in their position.
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Posted: 10/22/2015 11:31 AM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Seems like a logical place to throw this in:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/mac/2015/10/20... /
Good mention of former Ohio University QB and local H.S. Coach Chuck Stobart, who was a hell of a good man, and very good football coach.
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Posted: 10/22/2015 12:54 PM
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Maryland Bobcat wrote:expand_more
If the discussion is just about whether it's a good program or not, or would we rather have our current situation than the way it used to be then it's an easy debate. If the topic is "Becoming the next Boise State", however, then I think we have to question the progress this program has made the last few years. It's clearly not progressing. Simply making bowl games these days is not a great measure of accomplishment when every program over .500 does the same.

The program in its current state is not an elite one in the MAC.
This is sooooo spot on! Well said. I agree 1000% we are better off than the Lictenberg/Knorr-era teams (Throw out the above-average success run of Jim Grobe)......but watching our program ascend to the Top 25....articles in SI....talk of being a possible BCS-Buster......and then watching it fall flat on it's face. It's tough to stomach. Like I said, it was in their grasp to make that "leap" to national relevance. We failed to cash in on that great opportunity. I blame a lot of that on the players at the end of the 2012 & 2013 season. They quit on the program. They had a chance to finish each of those seasons strong and push this program forward...but instead they laid down and quit.

You CANNOT lose three of your last four in each of those two years by combined scores of 123-16 (2013) & 106-47 (2012).....and in 2010 let a chance to win the MAC East go by the wayside in an embarassing 28-6 loss to hapless Kent.

That is the sign of a program that has yet to make the commitment to excellence (cue the Oakland Raiders music)

Coaches need to hold players accountable and push to make this program better....if not, they are accepting mediocrity and accepting their place as a "solid MAC program, firmly in the middle of the league"

It's just frustrating to watch us grow to heights never seen (or even thought possible) only to then turn around and watch them disinergrate. I think the commitment and heart is back with the players (we'll find out for sure Saturday at Buffalo if they are able to dig deep and regroup)....but I'm not sure the results are there. They have 5 games to prove me wrong.

FWIW....MAC Since 2012

NIU 25-2
BGSU 19-7
Toledo 18-6
Ball St 17-7
CMU 14-10
Buffalo 12-11
Ohio 12-12
Kent 12-12
WMU 9-15
Akron 7-17
Miami 5-19
UMass 5-19
EMU 3-21

vs. "MAC Elite" since 2012 (over. 500 teams)

NIU 9-2
Toledo 7-5
Ball St 5-6
BGSU 2-6
Kent 2-8
WMU 2-10
CMU 1-8
Akron 1-8
Buffalo 0-8
UMass 0-8
Ohio 0-10
Miami 0-10
EMU 0-15

vs. "MAC Non-Elite" since 2012 (.500 or below)

BGSU 17-1
NIU 16-0
CMU 13-2
Ball St 12-1
Ohio 12-2
Buffalo 12-3
Toledo 11-1
Kent 10-4
WMU 7-5
Akron 6-9
Miami 5-9
UMass 5-11
EMU 3-6

It's pretty obvious this is a top-heavy league....there are a LOT of bottom feeders....everyone feeds off the have-nots in this league....not just Ohio.

BUT C'MON....We're 0-10 vs. MAC teams over .500 since 2012?!?!?!

Not that BG is that much better at 2-6....but they have four less opportunities. Even Akron has a win....

This is not where our football program should be in this league. There is no reason to be 12-12 the last three seasons in the MAC (and staring down another potential 4-4 season)

We are TIED FOR 7TH in overall record in this league.....7th?!?!?!?! That is just sad. I'm sorry, you can call me a debbie-downer or whatever.....but I expect more from this program
Last Edited: 10/22/2015 12:56:45 PM by bshot44
GoCats105
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Posted: 10/22/2015 1:44 PM
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NIU being 20-2 vs the MAC since 2012...wow.

Ball State's MAC record is also very good.
Last Edited: 10/22/2015 1:45:15 PM by GoCats105
Alan Swank
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Posted: 10/22/2015 11:05 PM
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bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Seems like a logical place to throw this in:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/mac/2015/10/20... /
Transfer QB from Alabama. Toledo former coaches Nick Saben & Gary Pinkel. Keeping Toledo rolling, nothing like winning at Ohio.
Let's see - transfer from Michigan State. Former coaches Danny Nee and John Gross. Winning at Ohio. It can be done.
Gone from Athens only a few short years and we already forgot how to spell his name? At least you didn't spell it Danny Knee.
Hey was in a hurry to catch a plane. Sorry I let a bad one lose. :)
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Posted: 10/23/2015 2:08 AM
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Maryland Bobcat wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=Bcat2]
The program in its current state is not an elite one in the MAC. It is a consistent one, though. We've settled into what I like to call us the VT of the MAC. Frank Beamer built a great program, and they are pretty good year in and year out. They just aren't great. They have a good fan base, good attendance, and make their bowl game every year. The question is it worth risking that consistency to try and achieve the next step? Are sounding like Nebraska fans just before they let Solich go?
Frank is not going to be fired but he's only under contract through 2016. This year is very important. If he wins the East or a bowl he's got grounds for a 2 year extension if he wants it. There is a good possibility he doesn't even want an extension. I'd think he'd like to leave the program on as high as ground as possible before exiting. Academic Center in construction by next year. A couple more recruiting classes with an IPF. A few more cracks at a MAC Championship. 77 wins in Athens and he could get to 100. Solich is a near term strategy for the program. Solich is making 600k. The Top 15 paid G5 coaches in salary start at 1 million and going up from there. By the time Frank goes I think we'll be looking at 1 million for the next head coach or close to it. The realization is that Frank is no longer building the program as much servicing the program with intangibles such as his tenure at the school and stability before absorbing the inevitable expense of a new market rate coach.
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