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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Injured when?
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Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/12/2015 1:38 PM
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Am I right in thinking that we sustain most of our injuries in games against better competition (well, losses)?

That would speak to the gripes about recruiting, would seem to say that we get beat up in those games because our guys are smaller and/or have to compete so much harder to keep up with better athletes--meaning susceptibility to injury.
cc-cat
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Posted: 11/12/2015 2:52 PM
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not sure if the numbers will reflect such an association (injuries against better teams). What we do know for a fact is that correlation is not causation.
stout76
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Posted: 11/12/2015 4:06 PM
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I'm re-posting this. The staff really should contact these guys.

(I've mentioned this before but the Ohio S&C staff needs to take a trip to Stanford. These guys are gurus and had one of the lowest injury rates in FBS. Nothing like learning from experts.)

http://www.gostanford.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=749929&S...

http://www.gostanford.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=749929&S...
Last Edited: 11/12/2015 5:15:17 PM by stout76
L.C.
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Posted: 11/12/2015 4:58 PM
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Here's another question. Do more injuries happen at home or on the road? If at home, could the new turf be an issue? If I recall, they changed the turf about the time the injury rate shot up.
L.C.
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Posted: 11/12/2015 8:52 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
Here's another question. Do more injuries happen at home or on the road? If at home, could the new turf be an issue? If I recall, they changed the turf about the time the injury rate shot up.

I checked, and the new turf was installed in the summer of 2013. Thus it was in place for 2013-2015, but not for 2012, which was the year of the worst injuries. The new turf is an Astro-turf product, and is different than the more standard Field Turf. Is it as safe?

I do think that it would be interesting to compile a list of injuries by type, by where they happened, by who was being played (or whether it was in a practice), to see if a pattern emerges. I don't have enough data to make such a list though. You'd think someone, perhaps the athletic training staff, would have one.
Last Edited: 11/12/2015 9:18:28 PM by L.C.
71 BOBCAT
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Posted: 11/13/2015 9:34 AM
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You really have to love all this discussion over injuries.

I think Ohio needs to hire a big time consulting firm to do a complete analytical analysis of the injury situation. It will probably cost $1 or $2M and take at least a year to complete, and the report will be summarized in a 500 page power point presentation.. Then when we look at their findings we will discover no glaring or obvious issues that would point to exactly what the problem is with an easy solution. But, we will feel better that we spent all this money to validate what we already knew through a common sense discussion.

I am of course being completely and totally sarcastic with this point, but it's a point I felt well worth making at this point in the discussion.




GO BOBCATS
mf279801
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Posted: 11/13/2015 10:06 AM
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71 BOBCAT wrote:expand_more
You really have to love all this discussion over injuries.

I think Ohio needs to hire a big time consulting firm to do a complete analytical analysis of the injury situation. It will probably cost $1 or $2M and take at least a year to complete, and the report will be summarized in a 500 page power point presentation.. Then when we look at their findings we will discover no glaring or obvious issues that would point to exactly what the problem is with an easy solution. But, we will feel better that we spent all this money to validate what we already knew through a common sense discussion.

I am of course being completely and totally sarcastic with this point, but it's a point I felt well worth making at this point in the discussion.




GO BOBCATS
I'll do it for a quarter mil. No promises that my conclusion won't be "requires a bigger study"
rpbobcat
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Posted: 11/13/2015 10:20 AM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
Here's another question. Do more injuries happen at home or on the road? If at home, could the new turf be an issue? If I recall, they changed the turf about the time the injury rate shot up.

I checked, and the new turf was installed in the summer of 2013. Thus it was in place for 2013-2015, but not for 2012, which was the year of the worst injuries. The new turf is an Astro-turf product, and is different than the more standard Field Turf. Is it as safe?

I do think that it would be interesting to compile a list of injuries by type, by where they happened, by who was being played (or whether it was in a practice), to see if a pattern emerges. I don't have enough data to make such a list though. You'd think someone, perhaps the athletic training staff, would have one.
I have designed a number of synthetic turf fields.
The "old" turf at O.U. was past its recomended "useful" life.
I was out at O.U. for a game a year or so before the turf was replaced.
The Maintiance Staff did a phenominal job of keeping the old turf "playable",but you could see it needed to be replaced.

I use "Field Turf" pretty much exclusively.

I have seen the specs for the turf used at O.U.
Also walked on the new turf a couple of times.

I've read a number of articles concerning the synthetic turf installed at O.U.In the interest of full disclosure,some of the information came from other synthetic turf manufacturers.
"AstroTurf" uses a differnt type of "mat" for the turf as well as a different sand/rubber "infill".
The "knocks" on the product are that the system is more prone to "snag" a cleat.
It also can get "slick" when its damp and/or cold.

I can't comment on the "cleat" issue,but I have seen unexpected "slips" in "dry" weather on that turf.
L.C.
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Posted: 11/13/2015 10:45 AM
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rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
...
The "knocks" on the product are that the system is more prone to "snag" a cleat.
It also can get "slick" when its damp and/or cold.

I can't comment on the "cleat" issue,but I have seen unexpected "slips" in "dry" weather on that turf.

Considering that many of Ohio's injuries have been shoulder and upper body injuries, the turf wouldn't be related to that, but I could see ankle and knee injuries being related to the turf. Do you know of other schools that have the same turf, so we could look to see what their injury rate experience is?
71 BOBCAT
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Posted: 11/13/2015 11:03 AM
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L.C. Now that the conversation is really starting to get into a discussion needing more research, that consultant group, or yourself, should be looked at more seriously.





GO BOBCATS
Last Edited: 11/13/2015 11:04:21 AM by 71 BOBCAT
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 11/13/2015 11:05 AM
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mf279801 wrote:expand_more
You really have to love all this discussion over injuries.

I think Ohio needs to hire a big time consulting firm to do a complete analytical analysis of the injury situation. It will probably cost $1 or $2M and take at least a year to complete, and the report will be summarized in a 500 page power point presentation.. Then when we look at their findings we will discover no glaring or obvious issues that would point to exactly what the problem is with an easy solution. But, we will feel better that we spent all this money to validate what we already knew through a common sense discussion.

I am of course being completely and totally sarcastic with this point, but it's a point I felt well worth making at this point in the discussion.




GO BOBCATS
I'll do it for a quarter mil. No promises that my conclusion won't be "requires a bigger study"
"In conclusion, the boo-boos were caused by bad luck. Now CUT THAT DANG CHECK because I got drunk and started clicking on things on the Sharper Image website last night."
mf279801
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Posted: 11/13/2015 11:25 AM
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Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
You really have to love all this discussion over injuries.

I think Ohio needs to hire a big time consulting firm to do a complete analytical analysis of the injury situation. It will probably cost $1 or $2M and take at least a year to complete, and the report will be summarized in a 500 page power point presentation.. Then when we look at their findings we will discover no glaring or obvious issues that would point to exactly what the problem is with an easy solution. But, we will feel better that we spent all this money to validate what we already knew through a common sense discussion.

I am of course being completely and totally sarcastic with this point, but it's a point I felt well worth making at this point in the discussion.

GO BOBCATS
I'll do it for a quarter mil. No promises that my conclusion won't be "requires a bigger study"
"In conclusion, the boo-boos were caused by bad luck. Now CUT THAT DANG CHECK because I got drunk and started clicking on things on the Sharper Image website last night."
Payment up front, for...um...expenses
rpbobcat
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Posted: 11/13/2015 12:59 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
...
The "knocks" on the product are that the system is more prone to "snag" a cleat.
It also can get "slick" when its damp and/or cold.

I can't comment on the "cleat" issue,but I have seen unexpected "slips" in "dry" weather on that turf.

Considering that many of Ohio's injuries have been shoulder and upper body injuries, the turf wouldn't be related to that, but I could see ankle and knee injuries being related to the turf. Do you know of other schools that have the same turf, so we could look to see what their injury rate experience is?
I don't,but Astro Turf does have a list of projects on their web site.
Just make sure you use fields with the same "model" turf.
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 11/13/2015 3:37 PM
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rpbobcat, what do you know, if anything, about the little black pellets (shredded tires) causing cancer? Urban myth? Something to it?

I'm asking as a fan but also as a concerned parent with a daughter who plays several soccer games a year on the new turf fields.
Last Edited: 11/13/2015 3:37:48 PM by bobcatsquared
mf279801
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Posted: 11/14/2015 12:55 AM
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bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
rpbobcat, what do you know, if anything, about the little black pellets (shredded tires) causing cancer? Urban myth? Something to it?

I'm asking as a fan but also as a concerned parent with a daughter who plays several soccer games a year on the new turf fields.
This is a joke, right? You're trolling, yes?
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 11/14/2015 7:47 AM
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mf279801 wrote:expand_more
rpbobcat, what do you know, if anything, about the little black pellets (shredded tires) causing cancer? Urban myth? Something to it?

I'm asking as a fan but also as a concerned parent with a daughter who plays several soccer games a year on the new turf fields.
This is a joke, right? You're trolling, yes?
No, there are actually cancer clusters in the female soccer community and the effects of the rubber infill is being studied. No concrete evidence, but some concerning numbers in some places.

Do a quick Google and you will find a lot of information regarding this topic.
Last Edited: 11/14/2015 7:48:59 AM by BillyTheCat
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 11/14/2015 8:15 AM
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No joke. No trolling.

A serious concern that is being looked at as we speak. The cluster BTC mentioned includes soccer goalies.
Last Edited: 11/14/2015 8:28:22 AM by bobcatsquared
OhioStunter
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Posted: 11/14/2015 8:48 AM
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bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
No joke. No trolling.

Loudoun school officials replied with a statement noting the findings of previous safety reviews by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and state agencies in California, Connecticut, New Jersey and New York, none of which found conclusive evidence that crumb rubber posed a risk to the health of athletes who played on it.

That same information is also touted by the Synthetic Turf Council, which issued a statement this year to emphasize that “hundreds of tests and hundreds of pages of reports” have found no clear link between crumb rubber and health problems.

“All of that research provides confidence that there is no elevated human health or environmental risk from the ingestion, inhalation or dermal contact with synthetic turf,” the statement said.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/artificial-turf-is-g...
Last Edited: 11/14/2015 8:50:46 AM by OhioStunter
mf279801
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Posted: 11/14/2015 9:37 AM
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This is anecdotal evidence collected by a grieving mother. While sad and tragic, that doesn't make it a "serious concern". I am familiar with recent news stories on this topic, and I put this anecdotal evidence (the aforementioned cancer clusters) on the same category as the now thoroughly discredited claims that the MMR vaccine causes autism. My thoughts? Grieving mother of female goalie who died of cancer (non-hodgkin's lymphoma is the story I'm seeing most often), searches for a reason why her child was randomly struck down by cancer, hears about other high school/college aged soccer players who got CANCER (note: I'm not seeing anything in my 15 minutes of google saying that these other cancer patients had non-hodgkin's lymphoma, as opposed to any other cancer) and decides "Ah ha! They all played soccer on artificial turf, and there's chemicals in that! It must be the culprit!"

I don't mean to be dismissive of their heartache, but none of that is what I would call "scientific evidence" or even "in the least bit scientifically compelling".

IF all 63 had non-hodgkin's lymphoma then they MIGHT be onto something, but I don't think thats the case.

Moreover, this suffers from extreme selection bias (her list contains only female soccer goalies who got cancer from playing on artificial turf. How many female goalies, or female soccer players, or soccer players in general, who have played a similar amount of time on artificial turf got cancer in this age range AS COMPARED TO HOW MANY DID NOT? How does the cancer rate in college aged female goalies compare to the cancer rate in college aged female NON-goalies? What happens if other athletes, both soccer and not soccer, and male athletes is included in the numbers, what does that do?) If actual epidemiological academic studies were to find STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT evidence of increased risk from playing on artificial turf, then I would be willing to consider this a serious concern. As it is, this sounds a lot like "MMR causes autism" or "GMO foods are dangerous"
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Posted: 11/14/2015 10:01 AM
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From everything I've read, including information from the CDC, I haven't seen any verifiable link between health problems and crumb rubber infill.

A few years ago everyone was in a panic about lead being found in synthetic turf.
It was never a secret. At the time it was used to keep green turf from fading.
But, it was "encapsulated", meaning you had to eat the turf to get lead in your system.
Plus, based on the amount of lead in the turf, you needed to eat something like 150 lbs. of the stuff to have a problem.
The CDC said the turf was safe, didn't matter, everyone panicked

Now its crumb rubber.
There are a lot of fields that use this material as infill. If crumb rubber was a problem, you'd expect to see a lot of health problems, which isn't the case.

They've also been using pretty much the same material (rubber mulch) on playgrounds for years.
Kids roll around it that stuff.
Never heard of any health issues with it.

Personally I'd be more concerned about the fertilizers and goose crap on a lot of natural turf fields.
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