Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Irons, are you kidding me?
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L.C.
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Posted: 11/9/2015 9:33 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Correct OCF, we should only address real issues in which we can effect change. Shuttle service anyone?

That was funny for awhile, but don't you have any new material?

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
If one guy is clearly better, just play him.

All that other stuff is just noise.

I would agree in theory, but if you do that, you never develop your young talent. I would suggest that they continue to work Irons into the rotation because I believe that, while he may not be the best all around back today, he has the highest upside, and in time he will be.
allen
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Posted: 11/9/2015 10:31 PM
L.C. can craft whatever he wants to craft, but Irons is better than both AJ and Patterson. He is bigger and more explosive than AJ, he is just as fast as Paterson, but bigger and explosive. Both AJ and Daz would have been stopped on that 44 yard run. Irons ran like Marshawn Lynch. L.C is is denial and time will definitely tell. He said in his analysis that AJ and Daz are better in short spaced, no way my money is on Irons to break the tackles. The coaches are loyal to their guys and hopefully you can teach and old dog new tricks or else we will waste away.
L.C.
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Posted: 11/9/2015 11:42 PM
I know you guys don't like Daz, but in my opinion, he's clearly the best all around back right now, and he's playing at a very high level. Last year he wasn't the best back because he had issues fumbling, and issues catching passes, but he has improved in both areas.

If the blocking by the offensive line had been more consistent this year he'd be having a great year. The better indicator will be how much attention he gets from the NFL, and my prediction is that he will end up with a free agent contract. Whether he goes beyond that, I don't know, but I'm sure he can play in Canada, if he wants to.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/10/2015 4:29 AM
Where did you get the idea that anyone doesn't like Daz?

By all accounts, he's a fine student-athlete. And anyone can see that he's markedly improved this year. Markedly.

But I think that you are way off base about Daz and the NFL. And, without any regard to personal like or dislike, Irons appears worlds more talented better than Daz.

Give Daz and Irons the exact same running circumstances (including line play) and I've about no doubt that Irons will far outperform.

There've been complaints this year about DUTM for a reason.
bshot44
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Posted: 11/10/2015 9:10 AM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
I know you guys don't like Daz, but in my opinion, he's clearly the best all around back right now, and he's playing at a very high level.
With all do respect to Daz....and I agree he has improved greatly since last year (i.e. fumbles)....but saying he's playing at a high level might be a bit of a stretch.

MAC Play

Akron 9 carries, 6 yards
Miami 11 carries, 35 yards
WMU 7 carries, 22 yards
UB 11 carries, 28 yards
BG 11 carries, 57 yards

Total: 49 carries, 148 yards...barely over 3 ypc
Total: 9 catches, 35 yards.....3.8 ypc

I know the O-Line is a lot of the problem...but let's not make Daz out to be a "high-level" back. I agree that given the same opportunity/blocking that AJ and/or Irons would outperform him by a wide margin.

I think Daz has a spot...as a 3rd down/scat back. His speed and hands out of the backfield and getting him in space I think would be more suited for him...not a between the tackles guy
Last Edited: 11/10/2015 9:12:31 AM by bshot44
L.C.
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Posted: 11/10/2015 10:44 AM
I think we've reached points at which we disagree, and where we aren't likely to agree. Here's how I see the various backs:
1. Daz is a very good all-around back, with no particular weaknesses. He has good power, good acceleration, good speed, good balance, good elusiveness, he's a good receiver and he's a very good blocker. Built low to the ground, he has good leverage when running inside. He may not be the best ever at any one skill, but all around he has no weaknesses.
2. AJ is a very powerful back who is deceptively fast, and an excellent north-south runner. He's not usually going to break the big run, but he's always going to get yards, and once in awhile he'll burst through the line for a big gain. He's also a good receiver, and an outstanding blocker. In an I formation, I want this guy as my fullback.
3. White - doesn't have a lot of power but has incredible speed and elusiveness, and he's an outstanding receiver. He's also a decent blocker.
4. Irons - Is the best on the team at reading blocks and finding lanes, and has outstanding balance, making him hard to tackle. You can't knock him down, you need to tackle him. He's also a good receiver, and has very good speed. He's also got some question marks in his skill set. He seems runs with a high pad height, so in traffic, when there is no running room, he's not able to move the pile. If he can't find a lane, he won't get much. I also have questions about his blocking. I've never actually seen him attempt a block, so I don't know how well he blocks. In a one back set, the back needs to be able to block, though.
5. Brown - Seems to be a good all around back, like a bigger Daz. He doesn't excel in any one area, but he's not bad in any area. He does need to improve his blocking, though. In the BG game I saw him miss a couple blocks, at least one of which resulted in a sack. He was trying hard, though, so I'm sure that he'll improve in the area of blocking.

For me to be convinced that Irons should move ahead of Daz or AJ he needs to convince me of two things. The first is that he can get the tough yards inside. The second is that he can block well. I expect we'll see more of him against Kent State, and maybe he'll demonstrate both abilities to me, in which case I'll join you. In the absence of that, though, I see him as a situational back who can do some great things if used properly.
Last Edited: 11/10/2015 10:45:08 AM by L.C.
allen
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Posted: 11/10/2015 12:40 PM
Irons would only move ahead in your mind if the coaches moved him ahead. I like Daz, Daz has a lot of heart, but he is not the best back. Irons can do it all, he is bigger and explosive, White is faster and a much better receiver. AJ is is a great back, with a lot of power, but not as powerful as Irons but alway's falls forward. Daz is playing because he is a senior and he has always done what the coaches asked of him. He has a shot at returner and not running back at the next level. He is not the best back on the team, he does have lot of heart though. Like I said if there were an open tryout for these backs at any university, Irons would win in a landslide. It's not even close.
L.C.
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Posted: 11/10/2015 1:29 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
Irons would only move ahead in your mind if the coaches moved him ahead. I like Daz, Daz has a lot of heart, but he is not the best back. Irons can do it all, he is bigger and explosive, White is faster and a much better receiver. AJ is is a great back, with a lot of power, but not as powerful as Irons but alway's falls forward. Daz is playing because he is a senior and he has always done what the coaches asked of him. He has a shot at returner and not running back at the next level. He is not the best back on the team, he does have lot of heart though. Like I said if there were an open tryout for these backs at any university, Irons would win in a landslide. It's not even close.

As I said, Irons still has things to prove to me, and I told you very specifically what those things are. I know he can carry the ball in the open field, but that is far from the only thing that a back has to do. Before I call for him to be the top back he needs to prove to me that he can get the tough yards inside, and he needs to prove that he can block. I will be watching for these two things against Kent State:
1. On inside runs, when there isn't a lot of room, what I do want to see is for him to continue to drive forward, and move the pile. What I don't want see is for him, with his high pad height, to get stood up and stopped for little to no gain.
2. On pass plays, sometimes he'll be sent out as a receiver, but the rest of the time he'll be expected to stay in and protect the QB, and pick up blitzes. I've never seen him block, so I can't comment on how good he is at it.

You can watch for these things, too, and comment after the game on whether you think he passed my test. If he can't do both, he still can be used as a situational back, though not as a full time back.

By the way, I'm ready for him to be used full time for other things. I'd like to see him back with Daz returning kickoffs. That would be an excellent use for his open field running ability.
Doc Bobcat
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Posted: 11/10/2015 4:13 PM
I'm in town. If we have a running game we win. If we suck early on at the running game with A.J. and or Daz and don't give Brown or Irons a shot...we lose.
L.C.
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Posted: 11/10/2015 4:43 PM
To clarify my remarks above, I didn't say that Irons can't block. I simply said that I personally haven't seen him block yet, so I want to see it to have a better idea how complete his game is.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/10/2015 6:12 PM
If a dude rips off yardage and td's in explosive fashion, yes, he should be expected to block on top of that.

But until he proves that he just won't block, he still plays in key moments. Can't overstate how wrong it is if he isn't so used.

And you'll find Irons blocking is, at least, sufficient.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/10/2015 6:31 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
. . .
And you'll find Irons blocking is, at least, sufficient.
I suspect that in this statement you will proven to be not wrong. ;-)
L.C.
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Posted: 11/10/2015 6:36 PM
It will be interesting to see how he is used. Because his more vertical running style and high pad height doesn't lend itself to running inside, my initial thought was that he might be used the way they were using White, but I could also see them shifting Daz to that role, and using irons in the backfield, but making sure that AJ or Daz is in the backfield in short yardage situations.

Either way, I expect to see both AJ and Daz first, but Irons earlier than we've seen him in the past.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 11/11/2015 12:52 AM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
It will be interesting to see how he is used. Because his more vertical running style and high pad height doesn't lend itself to running inside, my initial thought was that he might be used the way they were using White, but I could also see them shifting Daz to that role, and using irons in the backfield, but making sure that AJ or Daz is in the backfield in short yardage situations.

Either way, I expect to see both AJ and Daz first, but Irons earlier than we've seen him in the past.
Still the 4th RB in the game.
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