Bobcat Attack - Ohio Football - Which Record would you rather have over the last 10 years?

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Topic: Which Record would you rather have over the last 10 years?

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Alan Swank

11/29/2015 3:33 PM

D.A. wrote:expand_more

Alan Swank wrote:expand_more

Thanks DA for the link. In digging into the actual data on which the list was generated, it appears that the top 5 MAC schools spend pretty much the same money:

OU - $3,211,357
Akron - $2,954,432
Toledo - $2,808,546
Western - $2,678,729
Buffalo - $2,586,326

The difference between 1 and 5 is 19.5% and between 1 and 2 is 8% both a far cry from the 50% figure you threw out there.

I'm curious what is in the "actual data" that makes OHIO's budget decline, but the others increase, as you note above. OHIO is reporting expense numbers that the others weren't? I don't really care enough to look it up, but that seems odd. Not saying you are wrong, but I have seen these numbers posted on various sites over the years and haven't seen the integrity of the spreadsheet I linked questioned. Would love to know if you care to share and took the time to fact check them.

You don't care enough to look it up but you care enough to put it out there as fact? That's rather interesting.

But to answer your question, I went to the link that you posted and scrolled all the way down to the bottom to see where they got their information. I then went to that site and clicked on each school and simply listed the expenses that they reported to those who collected the data for the report. I'd go back and do it again, but the site you quoted won't let me login again (used up my free passes) and I can't find the site that they quoted in my history. If I can find the site in my history, I'll post on here later.

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D.A.

11/29/2015 4:08 PM

Alan Swank wrote:expand_more

D.A. wrote:expand_more

Alan Swank wrote:expand_more

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics / is the link they cite at the end of the list for the raw data. I'm just ambitious enough to google for a database that has the data someone is claiming as fact, but not conspiracy theorist enough to assume there is something wrong with their data and dig into the raw data assuming their list is inaccurate. ; -)

Basketball State has been cited/referenced by Borna several times in the past, and that gave them instant credibility in my eyes, so apologies for taking them at face value as a site with integrity.

Last Edited: 11/29/2015 4:22:14 PM by D.A.

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Alan Swank

11/29/2015 4:49 PM

D.A. wrote:expand_more

Alan Swank wrote:expand_more

D.A. wrote:expand_more

Alan Swank wrote:expand_more

Not a conspiracy theorist either but when someone throws out a 50% greater than figure, the red flags go up. So here is a direct link to a breakdown of expenses.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetails.aspx?756e69746964...

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giacomo

11/29/2015 4:51 PM

Back in the day, in the neighborhood where I grew up, there was this old guy that lived a few doors down from us. Everybody had a front porch and would sit out there when the weather was nice and walk a bit and chit chat with anyone that was out that evening. This gentleman always had a crazy opinion about everything and ranted and raved about most topics. Most of us rolled our eyes when he spoke or his name was mentioned. I don't recall anyone ever trying very hard to prove that he was not crazy.

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Alan Swank

11/29/2015 5:08 PM

giacomo wrote:expand_more

Great NE Ohio story I assume. There was one on every block - some were a tad on the crazy side - alcohol, drugs, the war (WW II) but some guys knew what they were talking about because when it came to sports, they had been there and done that. There was this tall guy on Arlington Street in East Akron . . .

The difference was that our dads "discussed" all this at the corner bar, the country club, the VFW hall, or the German-American Club. Today, no one on this board or any other is sitting at any of those bars.

Last Edited: 11/29/2015 5:41:46 PM by Alan Swank

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Bcat2

11/29/2015 6:05 PM

Alan Swank wrote:expand_more

giacomo wrote:expand_more

My VFW closed the bar years ago. Big improvement. We are in our high season. Dozens of Thanksgiving gift baskets already given and hundreds more more planned for Christmas. Hope everyone will somehow get involved in the giving.

Last Edited: 11/29/2015 6:07:23 PM by Bcat2

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Monroe Slavin

11/29/2015 9:20 PM

Which Record would you rather have over the last 10 years?

Ohio or BG?
Ohio or NIU?
Ohio or OSU?
Ohio or Will Ferrell?

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OUVan

11/30/2015 9:34 AM

What difference does the record of the last 10 years have to do with anything? The only relevant question is whether we will get better going forward or not. The answer to the poll question for me is clear but it's obviously formed to get a specific response. The anti-Frank brigade is right. Those shouldn't be the only options. But it doesn't matter. The question should be whether you think Frank CAN get us a MACC going forward.

If we had held on against Northern in 2011 my guess is the anti-Frank brigade would be bemoaning the fact that we hadn't won two.

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allen

11/30/2015 9:41 AM

OUVan wrote:expand_more

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cc-cat

11/30/2015 10:49 AM

allen wrote:expand_more

OUVan wrote:expand_more

If we had held on against Northern in 2011 my guess is the anti-Frank brigade would be bemoaning the fact that we hadn't won two.

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Bcat2

11/30/2015 10:58 AM

cc-cat wrote:expand_more

allen wrote:expand_more

OUVan wrote:expand_more

If we had held on against Northern in 2011 my guess is the anti-Frank brigade would be bemoaning the fact that we hadn't won two.

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L.C.

11/30/2015 11:14 AM

I re-arranged the order of your comments slightly to make it easier to answer:

OUVan wrote:expand_more

What difference does the record of the last 10 years have to do with anything?

This poll did not have high aspirations. It had only to do with one thing, the truth or falsity of the statement "the only thing that matters is a MACC".

OUVan wrote:expand_more

The answer to the poll question for me is clear but it's obviously formed to get a specific response.

No, the question was not biased in any way. The choices were clear cut, one record was excellent except that it included no MACC, and the other record was horrible, but did include a MACC. If you agreed with Monroe that a MACC was the only thing that matters, the poll answer would have been clear, but your answer would have been different. Apparently you disagree with him, as most people do.

OUVan wrote:expand_more

The anti-Frank brigade is right. Those shouldn't be the only options.

These weren't options. These were "what if this had happened". If I worded the question in a way that made people think about the future, I apologize. This was not about the next ten years. It's about "what if the last ten years had been different, would you be happier".

OUVan wrote:expand_more

The only relevant question is whether we will get better going forward or not. ... The question should be whether you think Frank CAN get us a MACC going forward.

In my case, I do. I think he will win a MACC either next year, or the year after, or both. These will be his best two teams at Ohio.

OUVan wrote:expand_more

If we had held on against Northern in 2011 my guess is the anti-Frank brigade would be bemoaning the fact that we hadn't won two.

Yes, that's exactly how it would be. I guess Frank better just win the next two and then retire. ;)

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OUVan

11/30/2015 11:45 AM

L.C. wrote:expand_more

In my case, I do. I think he will win a MACC either next year, or the year after, or both. These will be his best two teams at Ohio.

I think he can as well. I also admit that I give Frank a lot of room because since I arrived on campus in 1978 we have been epically hideous in football. He has made us relevant in football and that is a huge accomplishment in an of itself. I also think that now that we are relevant being relevant isn't enough. But firing Frank right now would be a huuuuuuuuuuuge mistake.

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Robert Fox

11/30/2015 12:23 PM

OUVan wrote:expand_more

But firing Frank right now would be a huuuuuuuuuuuge mistake.

Agree.

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Alan Swank

11/30/2015 1:17 PM

Robert Fox wrote:expand_more

OUVan wrote:expand_more

But firing Frank right now would be a huuuuuuuuuuuge mistake.

Agree.

Yes it would and I think you'll find very few people on here who would think it would be o.k.

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OhioCatFan

11/30/2015 6:19 PM

cc-cat wrote:expand_more

allen wrote:expand_more

OUVan wrote:expand_more

If we had held on against Northern in 2011 my guess is the anti-Frank brigade would be bemoaning the fact that we hadn't won two.

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D.A.

11/30/2015 6:41 PM

I had a chance to dig into the Equity in Athletics database today, and indeed Alan was correct in that the BBstate.com data was only pulling one expense group for all other MAC members versus OHIO's number have both sets of expenses. And the website also has the spends for football. So with that, here is the data: (I also added the most recent MAC members at the bottom just for kicks)

Expenses Team Game Total Delta %

Hoops
OHIO $2,781,177 $430,180 $3,211,357
Kron $2,515,053 $439,379 $2,954,432 9%
UT $2,165,788 $642,758 $2,808,546 14%
WMU $2,253,609 $425,120 $2,678,729 20%
Fiami $2,235,364 $380,132 $2,615,496 23%
Buffs $2,100,440 $485,876 $2,586,316 24%
BUGS $2,155,925 $365,545 $2,521,470 27%
Balls $1,831,427 $523,080 $2,354,507 36%
NIU $1,917,270 $434,210 $2,351,480 37%
EMU $1,846,050 $409,589 $2,255,639 42%
Kant $1,886,686 $323,031 $2,209,717 45%
CMU $1,746,177 $312,024 $2,058,201 56%

Football
UT $8,171,693 $2,056,878 $10,228,571
NIU $8,268,043 $1,767,843 $10,035,886 2%
WMU $8,041,487 $1,544,131 $9,585,618 7%
Fiami $8,172,654 $1,266,004 $9,438,658 8%
CMU $6,971,102 $1,734,074 $8,705,176 17%
Balls $7,061,205 $1,626,207 $8,687,412 18%
OHIO $7,745,655 $865,609 $8,611,264 19%
UMASS* $7,027,529 $1,479,275 $8,506,804 20%
Buffs $7,259,746 $1,201,975 $8,461,721 21%
Kron $7,155,103 $900,581 $8,055,684 27%
BUGS $6,574,467 $1,325,101 $7,899,568 29%
EMU $6,259,439 $937,703 $7,197,142 42%
Kant $5,497,223 $1,026,554 $6,523,777 57%

Temple $4,934,506 $1,320,125 $6,254,631 BB
$14,247,503 $3,149,852 $17,397,355 FB
UCF $2,819,579 $779,363 $3,598,942 BB
$18,051,303 $4,101,139 $22,152,442 FB
Marshall $2,385,914 $728,497 $3,114,411 BB
$7,912,066 $1,696,113 $9,608,179 FB

So I'd like to thank Alan for questioning the data, otherwise I wouldn't have poured over the minutiae and found several things intriguing:

1. I still hold to my assertion that we are spending significantly more in hoops and have far and away the best facility v our peers, while we are middling in football, and therefore still feel we should have higher expectations for performance in one than the other.

2. In both sports it appears to hold generally true, if you generalize that institutions 2014 spend is reflective of their historical spend, that the more you spend, the better the results.

3. The outliers to that generalization in basketball are that Kent has really outperformed its spend while Miami has under performed.

4. The outliers to that generalization in football are that Bowling Green/OHIO have outperformed their spends when you consider Clawson/Babers recent success and our having won the second most in the MAC over the last eleven years, while Miami has under performed their spend.

5. I'd have a hard time seeing OHIO stepping up to the AAC and having to spend $17-22MM/year to compete with the likes of Temple/UCF.

6. Despite their short swoon a few years ago, Marshall/Doc have done pretty well for themselves the last couple of years considering their budget.

Last Edited: 11/30/2015 6:53:25 PM by D.A.

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Andrew Ruck

11/30/2015 7:57 PM

I'm late to this thread and mostly only clicked on it to see Monroe's response, and then I thought I'd play a fun game with myself and try and guess his reply. I haven't scrolled past the first response, so let's give it a shot.

"Is this really where we have come? Here is a thought, how bout NEITHER.

We should be right there for the goal of MACC every year and not be losing to the Balls and Beefs and Kents.

Some of us realize this and want what is best for OHIO. Others make polls about which unacceptable scenario is acceptable.

How many more embarrassments does it take? How many more years of no MACC?

Let's beat more poor opponents to keep you all happy and make Frank a lifer.

Or maybe, just maybe, we get where we should be.

Maybe."

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Andrew Ruck

11/30/2015 8:01 PM

I don't think I did too bad, but I could've done better. Let's look at the comp:

Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more

"Is this really where we have come? Here is a thought, how bout NEITHER.

We should be right there for the goal of MACC every year and not be losing to the Balls and Beefs and Kents.

Some of us realize this and want what is best for OHIO. Others make polls about which unacceptable scenario is acceptable.

How many more embarrassments does it take? How many more years of no MACC?

Let's beat more poor opponents to keep you all happy and make Frank a lifer.

Or maybe, just maybe, we get where we should be.

Maybe."

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more

PhiTau is right about this being a false choice, as if these were the only two alternatives.

Doesn't this choice make you sick?

Here's a better choice: Tell me about the total, absolute, 100%, complete, thorough, monster coaches that Boldon and Webb are--y'know, two coaches who MACC'd early in their careers and appear to be at or very near that level every year.

There's no need to thank me, L.C., OCF, Bcat2, Situation. It's part of the education which I received at THE OHIO UNIVERSITY. We don't mis-perceive and we do not mis-state.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Reality; deal with it.

I forgot to talk down to the detractors and insult their intelligence. I'll work on it...I think I did pretty good with sentence structure and overall tone though. If anyone wants to craft a prediction of his response to my response, I highly recommend it. It's a pretty fun game.

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OhioCatFan

12/1/2015 12:27 AM

You can poke fun all you want, Andrew, and I like your sense of humor -- always a good thing. But, Man, please get a grip on reality. We stink. We lose to the good teams and some of the dregs by unacceptable scores each year and make the MACC off the table. NIU was a good win, but we stunk against WMU, Beefs and Kents. Can't get those games back. Now, I like Frank, but things got to change. They wouldn't accept this record with no MACC or conference championship at any school with a pulse. It's not Frank's problem anymore, it's people like you that accept mediocrity that are the problem.

[Hey, how did I do playing the Monroe Doctrine Game?]

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Bcat2

12/1/2015 6:49 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more

Oh, that was good. Scary. Be careful with that. It just shows how easy it is to slip over to the dark side. :) Really, there is so much material, blind loyalty to his staff, BUTM, two back sets etc.

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Andrew Ruck

12/1/2015 8:50 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more

Very good OCF, I would've just split it up into 4 or 5 paragraphs and ended a short and semi-senseless one-liner at the end.

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Toast

12/1/2015 9:03 AM

-457

what a downer

Maybe you should just root for the Bucks.

allen wrote:expand_more

Let's just be mediocre for ever. I don't care if we ever win the MAC as long as we can go 7-5 and beat 6 teams that are ranked at 80 or worst every season, I am good. These are great times. No other fans in the MAC get to experience what we experience. Go Cats

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DelBobcat

12/1/2015 10:33 AM

Alan Swank wrote:expand_more

giacomo wrote:expand_more

Speak for yourself. I spend lots of time at the corner bar discussing these things. Probably too much time if I'm being honest.

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The Optimist

12/1/2015 10:42 AM

DelBobcat wrote:expand_more

Alan Swank wrote:expand_more

giacomo wrote:expand_more