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Topic: WMU vs MT
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Bcat2
12/24/2015 3:37 PM
On the goal line Coach Fleck uses his 5'7" 175# RB Bogan instead of the 220# Franklin. What must he have been thinking?
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OhioCatFan
12/24/2015 3:50 PM
He phoned Frank for that play, obviously. ;-)
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Alan Swank
12/24/2015 3:55 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
On the goal line Coach Fleck uses his 5'7" 175# RB Bogan instead of the 220# Franklin. What must he have been thinking?
They won their game, Bogan ran for 200+ yards and scored four touchdowns. Your point?
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OhioCatFan
12/24/2015 3:59 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
On the goal line Coach Fleck uses his 5'7" 175# RB Bogan instead of the 220# Franklin. What must he have been thinking?
They won their game, Bogan ran for 200+ yards and scored four touchdowns. Your point?
If you missed the point, Alan, you haven't been paying attention. Perhaps you have been beta testing that "ignore button" that Ryan's been working on and haven't read the many posts about using Daz in short-yardage situations.
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Alan Swank
12/24/2015 4:02 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
On the goal line Coach Fleck uses his 5'7" 175# RB Bogan instead of the 220# Franklin. What must he have been thinking?
They won their game, Bogan ran for 200+ yards and scored four touchdowns. Your point?
If you missed the point, Alan, you haven't been paying attention. Perhaps you have been beta testing that "ignore button" that Ryan's been working on and haven't read the many posts about using Daz in short-yardage situations.
Sorry General Sherman, I missed coach bcat2's irony. If we don't have Western, Toledo and Northern on the schedule next year, we win the MAC East.
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allen
12/24/2015 4:51 PM
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
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Monroe Slavin
12/24/2015 5:02 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
On the goal line Coach Fleck uses his 5'7" 175# RB Bogan instead of the 220# Franklin. What must he have been thinking?
They won their game, Bogan ran for 200+ yards and scored four touchdowns. Your point?
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OhioCatFan
12/24/2015 5:03 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
The question is how would Daz have performed with WMU's line? Sometimes when Daz failed to make it on short-yardage situations it was not his fault. And, he did make some of those, also.
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Casper71
12/24/2015 5:21 PM
What I have been saying. A bigger stronger O-line would make all of our running backs look like all Americans.
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allen
12/24/2015 5:28 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
The question is how would Daz have performed with WMU's line? Sometimes when Daz failed to make it on short-yardage situations it was not his fault. And, he did make some of those, also.
We don't have their line, so you have to use different packages. You should know that by game 3, sometimes you have to change your game plan, you can't do what everybody else does. Stop trying to justify bad decisions.
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Monroe Slavin
12/24/2015 7:11 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
The question is how would Daz have performed with WMU's line? Sometimes when Daz failed to make it on short-yardage situations it was not his fault. And, he did make some of those, also.
We don't have their line, so you have to use different packages. You should know that by game 3, sometimes you have to change your game plan, you can't do what everybody else does. Stop trying to justify bad decisions.
That is an excellent point, Allen.

The point is not regretting that we don't have WMU's O-line talent (which may not be so given how we read here about the stoutness of our O-line talent); it's the reaction...or not...that we see on OHIO FOOTBALL when the running game isn't working. Do we see any wrinkles, any little twists to try to overcome what's not working?

No. We don't see much reacting to circumstances.


Might try Irons or two back sets or many other things. But we're still waiting.
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allen
12/24/2015 8:20 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
The question is how would Daz have performed with WMU's line? Sometimes when Daz failed to make it on short-yardage situations it was not his fault. And, he did make some of those, also.
We don't have their line, so you have to use different packages. You should know that by game 3, sometimes you have to change your game plan, you can't do what everybody else does. Stop trying to justify bad decisions.
That is an excellent point, Allen.

The point is not regretting that we don't have WMU's O-line talent (which may not be so given how we read here about the stoutness of our O-line talent); it's the reaction...or not...that we see on OHIO FOOTBALL when the running game isn't working. Do we see any wrinkles, any little twists to try to overcome what's not working?

No. We don't see much reacting to circumstances.


Might try Irons or two back sets or many other things. But we're still waiting.
+1
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bshot44
12/29/2015 2:22 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
The question is how would Daz have performed with WMU's line? Sometimes when Daz failed to make it on short-yardage situations it was not his fault. And, he did make some of those, also.
If Daz was decent, don't you think over the course of a four-year career he would have at least one 100yd game?
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Bcat2
12/29/2015 2:59 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
The question is how would Daz have performed with WMU's line? Sometimes when Daz failed to make it on short-yardage situations it was not his fault. And, he did make some of those, also.
If Daz was decent, don't you think over the course of a four-year career he would have at least one 100yd game?
First two years behind Beau & Boykin, last season he fumbled away the feature back role, but, still was the team leader in all purpose yards. This season there was no real feature back and Daz remained the team leader in all purpose yards.

In this thread Daz has gone from allen's "very dedicated, sound football player" to bshot44 questioning "If Daz was decent." I am with allen on this one and am puzzled what is the point, bshott44, of disrespecting a four year senior student/athlete who was the all purpose yard leader for two years?

Daz, good luck, thanks for bringing your game to Athens.
Last Edited: 12/29/2015 3:19:45 PM by Bcat2
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allen
12/29/2015 3:05 PM
Beau and Boykin were better backs, this is no slight to Daz, both had NFL tryouts. Daz graduated early with a 4.2 GPA and gave his heart to Ohio, however he is not Darren Sproles as many here seem to think, Daz is a good back. They will continue to do anything to validate his playing time and the coaches decisions. Truth is truth
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bshot44
12/29/2015 5:54 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
The question is how would Daz have performed with WMU's line? Sometimes when Daz failed to make it on short-yardage situations it was not his fault. And, he did make some of those, also.
If Daz was decent, don't you think over the course of a four-year career he would have at least one 100yd game?
First two years behind Beau & Boykin, last season he fumbled away the feature back role, but, still was the team leader in all purpose yards. This season there was no real feature back and Daz remained the team leader in all purpose yards.

In this thread Daz has gone from allen's "very dedicated, sound football player" to bshot44 questioning "If Daz was decent." I am with allen on this one and am puzzled what is the point, bshott44, of disrespecting a four year senior student/athlete who was the all purpose yard leader for two years?

Daz, good luck, thanks for bringing your game to Athens.
DON'T DENY THE SUCCESS OF DAZ BEING THE ALL-PURPOSE YARDAGE LEADER!!!!

ARGHHHH!!!!

C'mon. I wasn't questioning him as a person.

So quit throwing around his GPA and "disrespecting a four-year senior"

I appreciate the loyalty and hard work Daz put in during his four years at Ohio.

But the fact he puts on that uniform, it opens him up to criticism like every other athlete in D1 college football.

You might think he was great...or even very good....or whatever the green kool-aid is telling you to say.

My opinion is my opinion. I wasn't thrilled that he put into a feature back roll and he was never able to thrive there. Regardless of the amount of carries...he never had a breakout game in four years.

Ouellette has had five 100 yard games in 2 years....

All-purpose yardage is joke of a statistic to me. I'd rather look at yards from scrimmage....that's where you really see what impact a player has on an offense. (If Daz was something truly special on special teams, we might be having a different conversation...be he was average at best in the return game)

Last two years:
Patterson - 1057 kick & punt return yards
Patterson - 1029 rush & receiving yards

Over half of his yards have come via special teams.....and how many TDs.....ZERO

For arguments sake....last two years:
Ouellette - 1679 rush & receiving yards
Smith - 1162 receiving yards (no rush yards)
Reid - 951 receiving yards (no rush yards)
White - 524 rush & receiving yards (in only 9 games)

Patterson wasn't even close to a threat on offense the last two years....he was maybe our 5th best option with the ball in his hands (maybe 6th if your throw in the QB)

He averaged 44.7 ypg on offense in the last two years

For comparison
Ouellette: 70.5 ypg
Smith: 46.5 ypg
Reid: 38.04 ypg
White: 58.2 ypg

He was barely better than Jordan Reid when he had the ball in his hands in terms of production.

And Reid only had 69 touches compared to Patterson's 222

That averages out to 13.8 yards per touch for Reid and 4.6 yards per touch for Daz.

I'm just looking at the facts man.

But you keep telling us how it is. Everything is wonderful! Everything is great!

I'm sorry....but I did not think Daz was that good. I thought he had the potential to be a lot better if utilized differently....but I never thought of his as a feature back and for whatever reason that's how the staff decided to use him.

This has no bearing on Daz as a person...as a representative of Ohio University or his future playing career (which I think is CFL at best)
Last Edited: 12/29/2015 5:58:12 PM by bshot44
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Bcat2
12/29/2015 6:24 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
The question is how would Daz have performed with WMU's line? Sometimes when Daz failed to make it on short-yardage situations it was not his fault. And, he did make some of those, also.
If Daz was decent, don't you think over the course of a four-year career he would have at least one 100yd game?
First two years behind Beau & Boykin, last season he fumbled away the feature back role, but, still was the team leader in all purpose yards. This season there was no real feature back and Daz remained the team leader in all purpose yards.

In this thread Daz has gone from allen's "very dedicated, sound football player" to bshot44 questioning "If Daz was decent." I am with allen on this one and am puzzled what is the point, bshott44, of disrespecting a four year senior student/athlete who was the all purpose yard leader for two years?

Daz, good luck, thanks for bringing your game to Athens.
DON'T DENY THE SUCCESS OF DAZ BEING THE ALL-PURPOSE YARDAGE LEADER!!!!

ARGHHHH!!!!

C'mon. I wasn't questioning him as a person.

So quit throwing around his GPA and "disrespecting a four-year senior"

I appreciate the loyalty and hard work Daz put in during his four years at Ohio.

But the fact he puts on that uniform, it opens him up to criticism like every other athlete in D1 college football.



I'm sorry....but I did not think Daz was that good. I thought he had the potential to be a lot better if utilized differently....but I never thought of his as a feature back and for whatever reason that's how the staff decided to use him.

This has no bearing on Daz as a person...as a representative of Ohio University or his future playing career (which I think is CFL at best)
He is as allen described "a very dedicated, sound football player."
Last Edited: 12/29/2015 6:26:16 PM by Bcat2
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allen
12/29/2015 6:25 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
The question is how would Daz have performed with WMU's line? Sometimes when Daz failed to make it on short-yardage situations it was not his fault. And, he did make some of those, also.
If Daz was decent, don't you think over the course of a four-year career he would have at least one 100yd game?
First two years behind Beau & Boykin, last season he fumbled away the feature back role, but, still was the team leader in all purpose yards. This season there was no real feature back and Daz remained the team leader in all purpose yards.

In this thread Daz has gone from allen's "very dedicated, sound football player" to bshot44 questioning "If Daz was decent." I am with allen on this one and am puzzled what is the point, bshott44, of disrespecting a four year senior student/athlete who was the all purpose yard leader for two years?

Daz, good luck, thanks for bringing your game to Athens.
DON'T DENY THE SUCCESS OF DAZ BEING THE ALL-PURPOSE YARDAGE LEADER!!!!

ARGHHHH!!!!

C'mon. I wasn't questioning him as a person.

So quit throwing around his GPA and "disrespecting a four-year senior"

I appreciate the loyalty and hard work Daz put in during his four years at Ohio.

But the fact he puts on that uniform, it opens him up to criticism like every other athlete in D1 college football.

You might think he was great...or even very good....or whatever the green kool-aid is telling you to say.

My opinion is my opinion. I wasn't thrilled that he put into a feature back roll and he was never able to thrive there. Regardless of the amount of carries...he never had a breakout game in four years.

Ouellette has had five 100 yard games in 2 years....

All-purpose yardage is joke of a statistic to me. I'd rather look at yards from scrimmage....that's where you really see what impact a player has on an offense. (If Daz was something truly special on special teams, we might be having a different conversation...be he was average at best in the return game)

Last two years:
Patterson - 1057 kick & punt return yards
Patterson - 1029 rush & receiving yards

Over half of his yards have come via special teams.....and how many TDs.....ZERO

For arguments sake....last two years:
Ouellette - 1679 rush & receiving yards
Smith - 1162 receiving yards (no rush yards)
Reid - 951 receiving yards (no rush yards)
White - 524 rush & receiving yards (in only 9 games)

Patterson wasn't even close to a threat on offense the last two years....he was maybe our 5th best option with the ball in his hands (maybe 6th if your throw in the QB)

He averaged 44.7 ypg on offense in the last two years

For comparison
Ouellette: 70.5 ypg
Smith: 46.5 ypg
Reid: 38.04 ypg
White: 58.2 ypg

He was barely better than Jordan Reid when he had the ball in his hands in terms of production.

And Reid only had 69 touches compared to Patterson's 222

That averages out to 13.8 yards per touch for Reid and 4.6 yards per touch for Daz.

I'm just looking at the facts man.

But you keep telling us how it is. Everything is wonderful! Everything is great!

I'm sorry....but I did not think Daz was that good. I thought he had the potential to be a lot better if utilized differently....but I never thought of his as a feature back and for whatever reason that's how the staff decided to use him.

This has no bearing on Daz as a person...as a representative of Ohio University or his future playing career (which I think is CFL at best)

No argument from me, I was just pointing out why the coaches probably play him. I believe the coaches felt they owed him playing time because of his tenure and character. I believe there ar more talented backs that should have got carries. I appreciate your truthful analysis.
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Monroe Slavin
12/29/2015 6:49 PM
Bcat2, telling us that the leading yard producer is necessarily a good player...even if those leading stats were just the top of a not very good pile.

Again, we have unreasonable total buy-in and no ability to understand context.
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Monroe Slavin
12/29/2015 6:50 PM
By the way, in my house I'm sure-fire to make the NFL, NBA and MLB halls of fame. Sure, there are only a couple of us, but really that's not the point.
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MonroeClassmate
12/29/2015 7:09 PM
Pistol limiting OHIO's ground yardage?

It appeared to me that the OHIO offensive line at the point of attack was able to get some push against Appy. However, either because Appy had awesome talent away from the hole that caught our ball carriers from the side or behind for little gain OR because the play takes so long to develop that the hole closes that the push went for naught.

If OHIO has a push and the ball carrier gets to the spot where the hole had been late rather than early, is it time to change the scheme? Have the defenses figured out how to stop/slow the single back set from the shotgun? How would a little under center quick handoff dive play look behind our BEEF? Where do other MAC teams find success?

Including 2011 and every year since, Toledo has finished ahead of OHIO in rushing, and the average per carry is almost a yard greater. Is it their system or their talent? 2015 was better for the Bobcats than either '14 or '13 so the trend is good for OHIO's rushing. The 4.39 per carry was slightly better than 2012 of 4.38 but not in the 5's like Toledo. What type of running attack do the Rockets employ? West has been best so the Rockets do it against what may be considered better defenses over the season.

What changes can be made to average over 200 yards per game, get close to 5 yards per carry, in 2016 during the MAC schedule?
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GoCats105
12/30/2015 7:44 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
The question is how would Daz have performed with WMU's line? Sometimes when Daz failed to make it on short-yardage situations it was not his fault. And, he did make some of those, also.
If Daz was decent, don't you think over the course of a four-year career he would have at least one 100yd game?
First two years behind Beau & Boykin, last season he fumbled away the feature back role, but, still was the team leader in all purpose yards. This season there was no real feature back and Daz remained the team leader in all purpose yards.

In this thread Daz has gone from allen's "very dedicated, sound football player" to bshot44 questioning "If Daz was decent." I am with allen on this one and am puzzled what is the point, bshott44, of disrespecting a four year senior student/athlete who was the all purpose yard leader for two years?

Daz, good luck, thanks for bringing your game to Athens.


But you keep telling us how it is. Everything is wonderful! Everything is great!
You just reminded me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l3g9wtmrJk
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bshot44
12/30/2015 10:58 AM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
The only problem is Daz never exploded for 200 yards, he is not Darren Sproles. Daz is a very dedicated, sound football player, but he is not our best short yardage back.
The question is how would Daz have performed with WMU's line? Sometimes when Daz failed to make it on short-yardage situations it was not his fault. And, he did make some of those, also.
If Daz was decent, don't you think over the course of a four-year career he would have at least one 100yd game?
First two years behind Beau & Boykin, last season he fumbled away the feature back role, but, still was the team leader in all purpose yards. This season there was no real feature back and Daz remained the team leader in all purpose yards.

In this thread Daz has gone from allen's "very dedicated, sound football player" to bshot44 questioning "If Daz was decent." I am with allen on this one and am puzzled what is the point, bshott44, of disrespecting a four year senior student/athlete who was the all purpose yard leader for two years?

Daz, good luck, thanks for bringing your game to Athens.


But you keep telling us how it is. Everything is wonderful! Everything is great!
You just reminded me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l3g9wtmrJk

HAHA! I was thinking more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cQgQIMlwWw
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