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Topic: Maleek Irons Transfer Watch
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Bcat2
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Posted: 12/20/2015 11:18 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
. . . And, if next year Irons should break out, clearly the talent was not there or ready now..clearly holding him off the field will have been what developed that talent.
Actually, it'll mean that Frank finally listened to you, Monroe, and we'll all give you credit for being a prophet whose football brilliance is finally getting the recognition that it deserves. In fact, Frank will probably name you Honorary Assistant Coach for Running Back and Trick Play Development.
I have to say that this is one of the most absurd discussions I have ever seen. If there is one thing that Solich knows, it is running backs. He has recruited and coached up many of them, including a Heisman Trophy winner (Rozier), and countless running backs including among others, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, Lawrence Phillips, Ahman Green, Derick Brown, Mark Schellen, Calvin Jones, Keith Jones, Jeff Smith, Jeff Makovicka, Joel Makovicka, Corey Schlesinger, Damon Benning, Correll Buckhalter, and Dahrran Diedrick. He was so highly regarded as a running backs coach that he even had videos out back in the day teaching others how to coach running backs, and the videos are still sold today:
https://www.overdrive.com/media/1574843/frank-solich-runn...
http://www.hamiltonbook.com/Sports/frank-solich-running-b...

Does anyone honestly believe that if Ohio wasn't playing the best running back he wouldn't know? Bug, some message board posters, who most likely have never even played the game, know more about running backs than Solich, and they know it never even having seen a practice. Will wonders never cease?

I could have done with you leaving Lawerence Phillips off that list.
+1
L.C.
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Posted: 12/21/2015 2:06 AM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I could have done with you leaving Lawerence Phillips off that list.

I thought about it, but I included Phillips because, while he had serious character issues, no one doubts that he could play.

So, what does Solich think about Maleek, and about Dorian? When asked, he will tell you that they can play. They both can be great players, but that doesn't mean that they don't have areas where they can improve, nor that they don't have to keep working hard to get better. He clearly was working hard this year to get carries for both of them so that they can continue to improve. I have no reason to think that he isn't planning to give them even more carries next year as they continue to improve.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/21/2015 8:51 AM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
. . . And, if next year Irons should break out, clearly the talent was not there or ready now..clearly holding him off the field will have been what developed that talent.
Actually, it'll mean that Frank finally listened to you, Monroe, and we'll all give you credit for being a prophet whose football brilliance is finally getting the recognition that it deserves. In fact, Frank will probably name you Honorary Assistant Coach for Running Back and Trick Play Development.
I have to say that this is one of the most absurd discussions I have ever seen. If there is one thing that Solich knows, it is running backs. He has recruited and coached up many of them, including a Heisman Trophy winner (Rozier), and countless running backs including among others, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, Lawrence Phillips, Ahman Green, Derick Brown, Mark Schellen, Calvin Jones, Keith Jones, Jeff Smith, Jeff Makovicka, Joel Makovicka, Corey Schlesinger, Damon Benning, Correll Buckhalter, and Dahrran Diedrick. He was so highly regarded as a running backs coach that he even had videos out back in the day teaching others how to coach running backs, and the videos are still sold today:
https://www.overdrive.com/media/1574843/frank-solich-runn...
http://www.hamiltonbook.com/Sports/frank-solich-running-b...

Does anyone honestly believe that if Ohio wasn't playing the best running back he wouldn't know? Bug, some message board posters, who most likely have never even played the game, know more about running backs than Solich, and they know it never even having seen a practice. Will wonders never cease?
[clap, clap, clap] Bravo! [clap, clap, clap] Well said! [clap, clap, clap] Hoozah! [clap, clap, clap]
L.C.
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Posted: 12/21/2015 10:17 AM
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It's worth noting that all of the above backs started as fourth string backs, but through hard work, kept improving until they were first string. Not one of them had the starting job simply handed to them. If Irons is the back I think he is, he will do the same.

It's a nice problem to have, having multiple extremely talented running backs. This was something I expected to happen at Ohio a lot earlier. Now if we could get the same situation at QB...
Bobcatzblitz
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Posted: 12/21/2015 11:32 AM
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EXCEPT THERE IS ONE PROBLEM. FRANK SOLICH DOES NOT COACH THE RUNNING BACKS AT OHIO UNIVERSITY. AS A MATTER OF FACT HE DOES NOT COACH ANY POSITIONS HERE AT OHIO UNIVERSITY.
Casper71
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Posted: 12/21/2015 11:48 AM
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Wow, I take a different approach on this. I think the O-line MUST be much bigger and stronger than what we have had the last couple of years. I don't know what the strength numbers say but I know we are always manhandled in the trenches by most all of the "better" teams we play. That is either schemes or personnel.
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Posted: 12/21/2015 11:53 AM
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Bobcatzblitz wrote:expand_more
EXCEPT THERE IS ONE PROBLEM. FRANK SOLICH DOES NOT COACH THE RUNNING BACKS AT OHIO UNIVERSITY. AS A MATTER OF FACT HE DOES NOT COACH ANY POSITIONS HERE AT OHIO UNIVERSITY.

+1
Also, he lets his coaches make personnel decisions. They tried to move AJ to ILB, knowing that Brown and Irons may be better, but then they abandoned the move. AJ deserves to play, he is a great back. Daz has been marginal, but he has great character. Brown and Irons have the most talent, but they also have the most splinters. I have no doubt that Irons would have had more than 45 yards in that game. The coaches need to get some courage.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/21/2015 12:34 PM
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Some start with the point of view that Solich is pretty much infallible.

Some take a rather more even-handed approach, evaluating the evidence of 11 years at OHIO.

Some think that, Solich being totally solid, that he's right on with the running back situation (for which he, as head man, is responsible).

Others see 11 years with no MACC, the last four years full of jaw-dropping losses--in a lousy conference in which our schedule each year basically starts with 4-5 W's.

Solich is a genius with running backs doesn't square with BUTM and DUTM being acronyms for it-ain't-working.



Two games selected out of a 13 game sched..and in those two, Irons got 7 carries--that's how selective you need to get to preserve your view that Irons isn't it and Solich knows running backs?

I'll stick with Irons having the highest ypc on the team for the season.
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Posted: 12/21/2015 1:40 PM
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I agree with you, Casper, but some here say that the offense line doesn't matter.

If there is one place where I believe Solich is infallible, it is in evaluating running backs.

As for the two games I selected, that was 100% of the comparable data, not cherry picked data. You can't compare garbage time runs with runs against top teams. If you could, then Bo Hardy is who should be starting.

I am not going to say any more about it, but the data is not surprising; it is what I would have expected. I believe irons is great in the open field, but has room to improve on inside running. Against App St Ohio needed a tough inside runner who always falls forward, and the player who is the best at that at the current time is AJ.
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Posted: 12/21/2015 3:08 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Some start with the point of view that Solich is pretty much infallible. . . .
You apparently missed my comments, joined by many others of us who you sometime claim treat Solich as a saint, lambasting him for lack of control of his players in taunting opposition players and fans. There was a particularly bad display of the latter in the ASU game. You once again setup a strawman, which you then proceed to knock down. Erecting and then nocking over strawmen is a favorite methodology of polemicists of all stripes. You are very good at this craft both on BA in other aspects of your non-professional life. I suspect you leave this trait at home when you go to the office, as all reports are that you are actually an excellent CPA. I would expect nothing less of an OHIO trained guy! ;-)
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Posted: 12/21/2015 3:22 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
I agree with you, Casper, but some here say that the offense line doesn't matter.

If there is one place where I believe Solich is infallible, it is in evaluating running backs.

As for the two games I selected, that was 100% of the comparable data, not cherry picked data. You can't compare garbage time runs with runs against top teams. If you could, then Bo Hardy is who should be starting.

I am not going to say any more about it, but the data is not surprising; it is what I would have expected. I believe irons is great in the open field, but has room to improve on inside running. Against App St Ohio needed a tough inside runner who always falls forward, and the player who is the best at that at the current time is AJ.
AJ got 45 yards, I guarantee you Irons would have exceeded that total, he runs just as hard as AJ, but is bigger and faster. I will agree that AJ needs less space to get going.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/21/2015 3:29 PM
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Note that my notable disappointment with Solich did not start after we lost a few games. It started after about a dozen games (about a full season) after we collapsed after the 7-0 start and SI article.

A reasonably representative sample.

How one could choose two games from this year and make their analysis on the running backs is beyond me.

On that basis, guess what...no three thumping losses...we were in the MACC game this year, apparently!
allen
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Posted: 12/21/2015 3:34 PM
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One more thing, Brown and Irons are way better than Daz. AJ is in the discussion, but Daz, though very talented is not in the question, but they owed him carries.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/21/2015 3:40 PM
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allen wrote:expand_more
One more thing, Brown and Irons are way better than Daz.

According to you.

allen wrote:expand_more
AJ is in the discussion,

According to you.

allen wrote:expand_more
but Daz, though very talented is not in the question, but they owed him carries.

According to you.

And who are you, exactly?
allen
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Posted: 12/21/2015 3:48 PM
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A fan with eyes, not a ball handler like you. I see the games just like everyone else. You forgot one thing as well, stats don't lie or cling like groupies and the stats say Brown and Irons are better.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/21/2015 3:54 PM
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Robert Fox--That's a ridiculous response. Typical of the apologists.

If Allen's points are good, they're good irrespective of who he is.
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Posted: 12/21/2015 4:12 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Robert Fox--That's a ridiculous response. Typical of the apologists.

If Allen's points are good, they're good irrespective of who he is.

+1
Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/21/2015 4:14 PM
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allen wrote:expand_more
A fan with eyes, not a ball handler like you. I see the games just like everyone else. You forgot one thing as well, stats don't lie or cling like groupies and the stats say Brown and Irons are better.
You're right. Stats don't lie. You just choose to ignore them. There has not been anywhere near enough data on Irons to make a call on his ability, unless you've seen him in practice. And since you're not affiliated with the team (I guess), then you don't have that info. Seeing a few carries in mostly mop-up duty is not an evaluation. It's a sideshow.

And to your accusation, get a clue. I don't have a dog in the fight. Don't give a #$%! who carries the ball. But I'm also not an Irons cheerleader. You want to meet a cheerleader? Look in the mirror. Sheesh.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/21/2015 4:30 PM
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Softball #IV:

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Robert Fox--That's a ridiculous response. Typical of the apologists.

If Allen's points are good, they're good irrespective of who he is.



Monroe Slavin 11/21/2013 wrote:expand_more
Also, why do you hide behind a pseudonym. Tells us your real name. Or if you work for the University, at least admit that and give us some general idea of what capacity you work in.

Monroe Slavin 12/16/2013 wrote:expand_more
hashtag why don't you post under your real name and tell us who you are so that we can judge the likelihodd that you're baised.
Monroe Slavin 2/4/2014 wrote:expand_more
Why don't you have the guts to tells us whether you or a family member is in some way affiliated with the program.
Monroe Slavin 10/2/2015 wrote:expand_more
At least Paul posts under his real name, unlike you.
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Posted: 12/21/2015 5:22 PM
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Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Softball #IV:

Robert Fox--That's a ridiculous response. Typical of the apologists.

If Allen's points are good, they're good irrespective of who he is.



Also, why do you hide behind a pseudonym. Tells us your real name. Or if you work for the University, at least admit that and give us some general idea of what capacity you work in.

hashtag why don't you post under your real name and tell us who you are so that we can judge the likelihodd that you're baised.
Why don't you have the guts to tells us whether you or a family member is in some way affiliated with the program.
At least Paul posts under his real name, unlike you.


You are not a survey expert, you don't get to determine sample size. Irons played in the first quarter of one game and had the same average. You are a master ball handler, so you could give advice on undergarments.
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Posted: 12/21/2015 6:08 PM
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L.C. said earlier today that this thread was totally ridiculous. Now it's gone a step further into absurdity. For the record, I think that Irons will be one of the better RBs in OHIO history if not the best, assuming that he matures and is willing to take to the coaching he is receiving. I know that Frank is very high on his abilities. But, you guys don't have a clue how RBs are developed and what it takes to be a good RB. You take "garbage time" stats and try to make a case out of them. I'd suggest that you call Frank and have a man-on-man talk with him about Irons and his future at OHIO. If you'd stop long enough to actually listen to what he'd tell you, I think you might actually learn a thing or two about how to assess a RB -- not only in terms of potential but in terms of what he needs to learn to break into the starting lineup. I have little doubt that Irons' day will come. And, with your current attitude, you'll be saying that it proves you were right all along. It will actually prove nothing of the sort. It'll prove that when Irons gets his prime-time slot that he was ready for it. You guys remind me of the fans who always think the second-string QB should be playing instead of the starter because he looks so good at the end of games when he gets in against scrubs or fatigued defenses. This is a on-going joke among those who know about college fan bases. You in the Irons-now-or-else crew are now part of the joke, but you are not intelligent enough to realize. That's harsh, but boy is it earned.
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Posted: 12/21/2015 6:09 PM
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allen wrote:expand_more
You are not a survey expert,. . .
But I am.
allen
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Posted: 12/21/2015 6:20 PM
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He can't be high on his potential if he is getting splinters. I respect your comments, but they are biased. You would start AJ over Franco Harris if Frank Solich said so. I would agree that AJ is in the discussion with Irons, but Daz no, I don't care about garbage time. There was a staff member that said they could not believe Irons was not starting and he was like Derrick Henry, I believe him over you. I have seen Solich start Tettleton, while he had it on cruise control for two years. I have a master's in management. This tells me that the coaches don't know how to make changes when appropriate. They are too loyal. Sprague will start next year because we owe him. Frank Solich is a good coach and has been good for Ohio, but he is not perfect. Only Jesus is perfect so stop praising Solich.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/21/2015 7:30 PM
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allen wrote:expand_more
You are not a survey expert, you don't get to determine sample size. Irons played in the first quarter of one game and had the same average. You are a master ball handler, so you could give advice on undergarments.
Now I see what you're made of. Not much.
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Posted: 12/21/2015 7:46 PM
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Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
You are not a survey expert, you don't get to determine sample size. Irons played in the first quarter of one game and had the same average. You are a master ball handler, so you could give advice on undergarments.
Now I see what you're made of. Not much.
I am sorry that was a cheap shot.
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