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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Ban Helmets in Practice to make game safer
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giacomo
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Posted: 5/1/2016 10:00 PM
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Want to make football safer?
http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2016/05/01/Want...

Interesting take on making football safer.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/2/2016 9:42 AM
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Lots of truth to this, too many people (and it starts at the professional level) use their heads as a battering rams, and lead with the helmet. Ironic thing is, if you've ever attended NFL practices, they do not hit to the ground at all during the week in season and are rarely full contact, so they do a lot of "thud" and "tagging off", but as soon as the game begins they go out trying to make ESPN highlights and punish people, which is not what the game is about in regards to fundamentals.
Bcat2
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Posted: 5/2/2016 10:22 AM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Lots of truth to this, too many people (and it starts at the professional level) use their heads as a battering rams, and lead with the helmet. Ironic thing is, if you've ever attended NFL practices, they do not hit to the ground at all during the week in season and are rarely full contact, so they do a lot of "thud" and "tagging off", but as soon as the game begins they go out trying to make ESPN highlights and punish people, which is not what the game is about in regards to fundamentals.
Has anyone ever compared helmets/or seen players compare helmets to see who had the most banged up lid? Dangerous mindset.
OUcats82
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Posted: 5/2/2016 10:31 AM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Lots of truth to this, too many people (and it starts at the professional level) use their heads as a battering rams, and lead with the helmet. Ironic thing is, if you've ever attended NFL practices, they do not hit to the ground at all during the week in season and are rarely full contact, so they do a lot of "thud" and "tagging off", but as soon as the game begins they go out trying to make ESPN highlights and punish people, which is not what the game is about in regards to fundamentals.
Has anyone ever compared helmets/or seen players compare helmets to see who had the most banged up lid? Dangerous mindset.
This was a point of pride/bragging rights on my high school team. We had a 3 color striped decal going down the center of the helmet and the more damaged/ripped up, the better. We also wore white helmets so it was always common to compare how much paint we could get in the opponent colors to fill in the space.

BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Lots of truth to this, too many people (and it starts at the professional level) use their heads as a battering rams, and lead with the helmet. Ironic thing is, if you've ever attended NFL practices, they do not hit to the ground at all during the week in season and are rarely full contact, so they do a lot of "thud" and "tagging off", but as soon as the game begins they go out trying to make ESPN highlights and punish people, which is not what the game is about in regards to fundamentals.
I unfortunately think that until networks like ESPN, FS 1 etc. start to shame and talk down that kind of wreckless play and/or not highlight them at all it will continue. That being said, my belief that such a thing would actually happen is a lot higher now than say ten years ago with a greater awareness of and concern for head trauma and also a shift in cultural values where violence is more and more talked down.

I hate watching Bengals/Steelers matchups any more because it feels more like a steel cage match than a football game.
L.C.
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Posted: 5/2/2016 12:07 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Lots of truth to this, too many people (and it starts at the professional level) use their heads as a battering rams, and lead with the helmet. Ironic thing is, if you've ever attended NFL practices, they do not hit to the ground at all during the week in season and are rarely full contact, so they do a lot of "thud" and "tagging off", but as soon as the game begins they go out trying to make ESPN highlights and punish people, which is not what the game is about in regards to fundamentals.

That only shows that if this approach is to work, it needs to start at the youth level. I actually like this approach - using no helmets in most practice drills would encourage players to learn better tackling technique, and if they start at a young age, hopefully those players would grow up tackling safer, and have less injuries.

That brings be back to another point from a year or so ago, how teams have been working to implement "rugby-style" tackling. I remember that Ohio State worked on it a year ago. Has it been a point of emphasis at Ohio?
giacomo
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Posted: 5/2/2016 4:22 PM
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I don't think the game will ever get less violent. You can only hope that players and their parents are playing with their eyes wide open and know the risks involved. As the article mentions, we did not know many of the risks years ago. You're starting to hear stories where very good athletes are deciding not to play, even sons of ex-pro and college players.
Scott Woods
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Posted: 5/2/2016 5:57 PM
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I didn't read the article so maybe this question was answered there, but why would you only stop using helmets in practice? I say get rid of the altogether.
L.C.
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Posted: 5/2/2016 9:28 PM
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Boaty McBoatface wrote:expand_more
I didn't read the article so maybe this question was answered there, but why would you only stop using helmets in practice? I say get rid of the altogether.

As I understand it, they feel that helmets do improve safety, so long as players are not tempted to use them as a weapon. Thus, if you remove them from practice, the players will learn to tackle properly and safely, and then, presumably those safer habits learned in practice will be applied in game, even though the helmets are added. Thus, in game you would get the best of both worlds - less dangerous hits, and the safety benefits of the helmets.

That's why I said that for this approach to work, you'd have to start early.
OhioBobcat
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Posted: 5/2/2016 10:21 PM
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This sounds like a good idea, right up until the point where people then start getting hurt because they weren't wearing a helmet. A collision, an accidentally hit, etc.
Bcat2
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:40 AM
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OhioBobcat wrote:expand_more
This sounds like a good idea, right up until the point where people then start getting hurt because they weren't wearing a helmet. A collision, an accidentally hit, etc.
My son's concussion occurred without helmet. Head vs ground = concussion.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/3/2016 8:10 AM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
This sounds like a good idea, right up until the point where people then start getting hurt because they weren't wearing a helmet. A collision, an accidentally hit, etc.
My son's concussion occurred without helmet. Head vs ground = concussion.
One aspect that is not taught at lower levels in football anymore is learning how to fall or go down, this is a skill that used to be routinely taught.

I agree to a large extent with the poster who said coaching is not what it used to be, there are lots of young kids in coaching today who believe that coaching is all about X's and O's, and not about "teaching" and "instructing". These skills have been replaced with "telling". I personally feel lots of this is due to the fact that fewer and fewer coaches are not teachers anymore. Teachers teach, that's what they do.
PTgrad
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Posted: 5/4/2016 9:43 AM
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I would love to see football adopt a different type of helmet similar to something like a bicycling helmet that would still provide for some concussion protection for head to ground contact. Even a rugby style helmet that has been making some inroads in FIFA for goalies...

I believe that by taking the face mask away, it would take away the sense of invincibility during spearheading tackles.

And the "2 birds with 1 stone" tangent on this, it could also help with the NFL's public image and player recognition issue...fans and kids could now recognize their teams hardworking "in the trench" players (because they would see their faces) and not just the glorified divas when they get busted for drugs, violence, etc...

Just my .02
OUcats82
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Posted: 5/4/2016 3:16 PM
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cc-cat
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Posted: 5/4/2016 3:57 PM
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Unfortunately one of the primary problems is not the helmet, but the coaching. The coaching and teaching at the youth level is (for the most part) atrocious. Many are simply ex HS players that now have kids and want to relive their time on the gridiron. Technique is shunned for "putting a helmet on him." When my son played youth ball, he had 2 good coaches and 2 that were beyond bad - including one that was run from the league for fighting the coach of another team....twice. The two that were good played college ball (Clemson and Minn.) Turn on Friday Night Tykes some day. Yes, it is a TV show, but it accurately presents coaches. Who knows, maybe not allowing players to wear helmets in practice will force these coaches to actually teach technique.

PS - most parents are not much better.
Last Edited: 5/4/2016 3:59:29 PM by cc-cat
SBH
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Posted: 5/4/2016 4:10 PM
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I pin it on coaching. My son played for Archbishop Hoban in Akron and was knocked unconscious by a helmet-on-helmet hit during practice. The coaches asked the trainers to remove him from the field and never followed up to determine whether he had suffered a concussion. (He had.) They then let him drive his car 8 miles to our home. Needless to say, we had a tough conversation with the coaching staff and the school's principal. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have urged him to play another sport.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/5/2016 9:46 AM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
I pin it on coaching. My son played for Archbishop Hoban in Akron and was knocked unconscious by a helmet-on-helmet hit during practice. The coaches asked the trainers to remove him from the field and never followed up to determine whether he had suffered a concussion. (He had.) They then let him drive his car 8 miles to our home. Needless to say, we had a tough conversation with the coaching staff and the school's principal. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have urged him to play another sport.
A caring coach will check up on his/her athletes, but the letting your child drive falls squarely on the training staff for not following through with any protocol of a concussion. Once medical staff are involved a coach is out of the equation by law.
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Posted: 5/5/2016 10:50 AM
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I go to a local gym where trainers who make their living this way are required to obtain specialized certification and training before they show overweight, sedentary middle aged people how to do a push-up.

Doesn't it make sense that youth leagues would require all coaches to get at least some level of professional tutoring on safety, first-aid and proper technique before they are given free rein with our children? It could be done at a long lunch and might at least give a league a preview of who is paying attention right at the outset.
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Posted: 5/9/2016 7:31 AM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I pin it on coaching. My son played for Archbishop Hoban in Akron and was knocked unconscious by a helmet-on-helmet hit during practice. The coaches asked the trainers to remove him from the field and never followed up to determine whether he had suffered a concussion. (He had.) They then let him drive his car 8 miles to our home. Needless to say, we had a tough conversation with the coaching staff and the school's principal. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have urged him to play another sport.
A caring coach will check up on his/her athletes, but the letting your child drive falls squarely on the training staff for not following through with any protocol of a concussion. Once medical staff are involved a coach is out of the equation by law.
Billy, at most schools, I believe the coaches are also the training staff. City programs might have training staff, but, most rural schools do not.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/9/2016 8:54 AM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I pin it on coaching. My son played for Archbishop Hoban in Akron and was knocked unconscious by a helmet-on-helmet hit during practice. The coaches asked the trainers to remove him from the field and never followed up to determine whether he had suffered a concussion. (He had.) They then let him drive his car 8 miles to our home. Needless to say, we had a tough conversation with the coaching staff and the school's principal. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have urged him to play another sport.
A caring coach will check up on his/her athletes, but the letting your child drive falls squarely on the training staff for not following through with any protocol of a concussion. Once medical staff are involved a coach is out of the equation by law.
Billy, at most schools, I believe the coaches are also the training staff. City programs might have training staff, but, most rural schools do not.

In some states and places that is true, but that is becoming increasingly null and void today, mainly due to laws that are requiring trainers at a higher rate than we've seen in the past. Been years since I have encountered a football or basketball game without a ATC, and they are covering more and more practices.
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Posted: 5/9/2016 10:14 AM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I pin it on coaching. My son played for Archbishop Hoban in Akron and was knocked unconscious by a helmet-on-helmet hit during practice. The coaches asked the trainers to remove him from the field and never followed up to determine whether he had suffered a concussion. (He had.) They then let him drive his car 8 miles to our home. Needless to say, we had a tough conversation with the coaching staff and the school's principal. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have urged him to play another sport.
A caring coach will check up on his/her athletes, but the letting your child drive falls squarely on the training staff for not following through with any protocol of a concussion. Once medical staff are involved a coach is out of the equation by law.
Billy, at most schools, I believe the coaches are also the training staff. City programs might have training staff, but, most rural schools do not.

In some states and places that is true, but that is becoming increasingly null and void today, mainly due to laws that are requiring trainers at a higher rate than we've seen in the past. Been years since I have encountered a football or basketball game without a ATC, and they are covering more and more practices.
Link to Missouri High School Athletic Association information on concussions. Had I viewed this years ago I would have discouraged my son from participating.

http://www.mshsaa.org/Resources/UploadedFiles/TrainingVid...
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 5/9/2016 3:24 PM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I pin it on coaching. My son played for Archbishop Hoban in Akron and was knocked unconscious by a helmet-on-helmet hit during practice. The coaches asked the trainers to remove him from the field and never followed up to determine whether he had suffered a concussion. (He had.) They then let him drive his car 8 miles to our home. Needless to say, we had a tough conversation with the coaching staff and the school's principal. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have urged him to play another sport.
A caring coach will check up on his/her athletes, but the letting your child drive falls squarely on the training staff for not following through with any protocol of a concussion. Once medical staff are involved a coach is out of the equation by law.
Billy, at most schools, I believe the coaches are also the training staff. City programs might have training staff, but, most rural schools do not.

In some states and places that is true, but that is becoming increasingly null and void today, mainly due to laws that are requiring trainers at a higher rate than we've seen in the past. Been years since I have encountered a football or basketball game without a ATC, and they are covering more and more practices.
Link to Missouri High School Athletic Association information on concussions. Had I viewed this years ago I would have discouraged my son from participating.

http://www.mshsaa.org/Resources/UploadedFiles/TrainingVid...
Cannot get it to load. Have to watch later
Alan Swank
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Posted: 5/11/2016 2:22 PM
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ytownbobcat
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Posted: 5/11/2016 7:23 PM
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keep the helmet just remove the facemask.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:03 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Yes, very sad. Sounds like another malpractice situation, as well, which makes it even sadder -- that he died as a result of a surgical accident.
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