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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: The Post: Faculty Senate votes to oppose Sook Center construction
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D.A.
5/15/2016 11:51 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
I think faculty senate should also oppose water flowing down the Hocking River. That would be equally as valuable a use of their time.

And this is precisely the reason why I will never endow a chair at OHIO.
1--No.

2--No.


1--Do you really think that the FS should not voice on matters affecting academics and the University?

2--I'm sorry that you think that way.
I'm sorry that you are sorry. People make choices in life, other people may take contrary views. Get over it.

And as for Faculty Senate and their extended reach, I have pointed out on several occasions here that while Shared Governance does give FS a voice on matters related to many items at the University, Shared Governance does not extend to matters related to Intercollegiate Athletics.

They are entitled to discuss anything they like, but it is a waste of the State of Ohio taxpayer's money for them to spend any time debating ICA. And as long as they continue to do so, I will continue to not support them financially.
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Alan Swank
5/15/2016 6:10 PM
D.A. wrote:expand_more
I think faculty senate should also oppose water flowing down the Hocking River. That would be equally as valuable a use of their time.

And this is precisely the reason why I will never endow a chair at OHIO.
1--No.

2--No.


1--Do you really think that the FS should not voice on matters affecting academics and the University?

2--I'm sorry that you think that way.
I'm sorry that you are sorry. People make choices in life, other people may take contrary views. Get over it.

And as for Faculty Senate and their extended reach, I have pointed out on several occasions here that while Shared Governance does give FS a voice on matters related to many items at the University, Shared Governance does not extend to matters related to Intercollegiate Athletics.

They are entitled to discuss anything they like, but it is a waste of the State of Ohio taxpayer's money for them to spend any time debating ICA. And as long as they continue to do so, I will continue to not support them financially.
I guess I'm missing something here. Our number one customer is the student. Our number one resource is the faculty. I would think that faculty input on anything that affects the student would be a legitimate conversation.
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The Optimist
5/15/2016 6:56 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
I would actually rather see the donations being used endow athletic scholarships. Heck just about all fundraising now should be focused on scholarships/affordability.
I disagree.

College affordability is certainly an increasingly major challenge many students today face in attending college, but I don't believe focusing fundraising on subsidizing students time in college is a sustainable, long-term, solution to that issue.

A donation towards the infrastructure of campus is a long-term investment in Ohio University. (Athens) bricks and mortar is crucial to our campus. Without the proper infrastructure in place, we might as well pack up shop and offer solely online classes. It'd certainly make it cheaper for students, while also destroying the learning environment created outside the classroom at colleges like OHIO.

I'm greatly encouraged by the shape the Athens' campus is taking to go along with the latest master plan the University has released. MANY have long said that Ohio University's campus in Athens in one of our greatest strengths as a school, and I agree. We've got as nice of a backdrop for a college as you could ask for, and projects like this provide facilities that enhance that setting.
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colobobcat66
5/15/2016 7:46 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
I think faculty senate should also oppose water flowing down the Hocking River. That would be equally as valuable a use of their time.

And this is precisely the reason why I will never endow a chair at OHIO.
1--No.

2--No.


1--Do you really think that the FS should not voice on matters affecting academics and the University?

2--I'm sorry that you think that way.
I'm sorry that you are sorry. People make choices in life, other people may take contrary views. Get over it.

And as for Faculty Senate and their extended reach, I have pointed out on several occasions here that while Shared Governance does give FS a voice on matters related to many items at the University, Shared Governance does not extend to matters related to Intercollegiate Athletics.

They are entitled to discuss anything they like, but it is a waste of the State of Ohio taxpayer's money for them to spend any time debating ICA. And as long as they continue to do so, I will continue to not support them financially.
I guess I'm missing something here. Our number one customer is the student. Our number one resource is the faculty. I would think that faculty input on anything that affects the student would be a legitimate conversation.

You may be right, however their priorities may not always jive with another large resource-the alumni. Room for both in my opinion. Agree to disagree and move on.
Last Edited: 5/15/2016 7:48:09 PM by colobobcat66
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TWT
5/15/2016 8:28 PM
The Faculty Senate is playing this game with the Sook Center to try and get the same community wide promise on access to it that the IPF was given. One way to do it would be to move the dean of academic advising to Sook so it could be stated that campus wide academic advising is being run out of the facility. The problem is there is already someone filling this role for the student body at large and the tutoring the student athletes are receiving is a subset of a campus wide effort. Regardless, there is nothing stopping a non-athlete student from walking into Sook Center and siting down at a computer. There are athletes on scholarship but also walk-ons that are athletes at the school. There is no way to enforce it as student athlete only facility. It's not like a chip can be added to a student ID that says this student is a student athlete and therefor can walk into it. What you'll find though is that student athletes have a jock profile that most students wouldn't want to be sharing study space with them or walk all the way over from Mill street to Peden when the Alden Library is half the distance.
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TWT
5/15/2016 8:54 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
I would actually rather see the donations being used endow athletic scholarships. Heck just about all fundraising now should be focused on scholarships/affordability.
I disagree.

College affordability is certainly an increasingly major challenge many students today face in attending college, but I don't believe focusing fundraising on subsidizing students time in college is a sustainable, long-term, solution to that issue.

A donation towards the infrastructure of campus is a long-term investment in Ohio University. (Athens) bricks and mortar is crucial to our campus. Without the proper infrastructure in place, we might as well pack up shop and offer solely online classes. It'd certainly make it cheaper for students, while also destroying the learning environment created outside the classroom at colleges like OHIO.

I'm greatly encouraged by the shape the Athens' campus is taking to go along with the latest master plan the University has released. MANY have long said that Ohio University's campus in Athens in one of our greatest strengths as a school, and I agree. We've got as nice of a backdrop for a college as you could ask for, and projects like this provide facilities that enhance that setting.
Ohio in the last 30 years has gone from a school with $30 million dollar endowment and 13,000 students to a school with a $600 million dollar endowment at 23,000 students. With enrollment at record levels and the master plan another 10 years of growth is on the way. The schools financial health is at an unprecedented level. The school is high enough of on the food chain where it can survive another great recession or a significant decline in the number of Ohio HS graduates. If I was Miami, I'd be getting pretty nervous since the relative distance between the two schools in quality is declining every year.
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The Optimist
5/15/2016 9:36 PM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
I would actually rather see the donations being used endow athletic scholarships. Heck just about all fundraising now should be focused on scholarships/affordability.
I disagree.

College affordability is certainly an increasingly major challenge many students today face in attending college, but I don't believe focusing fundraising on subsidizing students time in college is a sustainable, long-term, solution to that issue.

A donation towards the infrastructure of campus is a long-term investment in Ohio University. (Athens) bricks and mortar is crucial to our campus. Without the proper infrastructure in place, we might as well pack up shop and offer solely online classes. It'd certainly make it cheaper for students, while also destroying the learning environment created outside the classroom at colleges like OHIO.

I'm greatly encouraged by the shape the Athens' campus is taking to go along with the latest master plan the University has released. MANY have long said that Ohio University's campus in Athens in one of our greatest strengths as a school, and I agree. We've got as nice of a backdrop for a college as you could ask for, and projects like this provide facilities that enhance that setting.
Ohio in the last 30 years has gone from a school with $30 million dollar endowment and 13,000 students to a school with a $600 million dollar endowment at 23,000 students. With enrollment at record levels and the master plan another 10 years of growth is on the way. The schools financial health is at an unprecedented level. The school is high enough of on the food chain where it can survive another great recession or a significant decline in the number of Ohio HS graduates. If I was Miami, I'd be getting pretty nervous since the relative distance between the two schools in quality is declining every year.
I completely agree.

The only sorts who need to be worried are the BillyTheCat types... The monopoly is falling!
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OhioCatFan
5/16/2016 12:13 AM
Wes, if you are talking strictly undergraduate, I would have to agree with you, but as a total institution Miami is falling farther and farther behind OHIO every year. We have many more graduate programs at the Ph.D. and master's level than Miami, and we have a medical school, which is now the largest in the state in terms of total enrollment, with the two new campuses in Dublin and in Cleveland. As a comprehensive university we are leaving Miami in the dust . . . where they belong.
Last Edited: 5/16/2016 12:14:32 AM by OhioCatFan
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rpbobcat
5/16/2016 6:52 AM
Quote:expand_more
I guess I'm missing something here. Our number one customer is the student. Our number one resource is the faculty. I would think that faculty input on anything that affects the student would be a legitimate conversation.
I'm not going to claim to be an expert on the Faculty Senate.

But it seems to me,based on what I've seen,including the coverage in The Post,
that the best words to describe the body,as a whole,are contrary and self serving.

I can't recall them ever having something positive to say about University policies on anything.
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OhioCatFan
5/16/2016 10:33 AM
The current president of Faculty Senate used to be my wife's department chairman. What she and many of her faculty colleagues called him can't be repeated on this family friendly channel. If his intelligence and his willingness to listen to other points of view matched his ego, he might be a person to be admired. They don't. He isn't.
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Ohio69
5/16/2016 11:41 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
I would actually rather see the donations being used endow athletic scholarships. Heck just about all fundraising now should be focused on scholarships/affordability.
I disagree.

College affordability is certainly an increasingly major challenge many students today face in attending college, but I don't believe focusing fundraising on subsidizing students time in college is a sustainable, long-term, solution to that issue.

A donation towards the infrastructure of campus is a long-term investment in Ohio University. (Athens) bricks and mortar is crucial to our campus. Without the proper infrastructure in place, we might as well pack up shop and offer solely online classes. It'd certainly make it cheaper for students, while also destroying the learning environment created outside the classroom at colleges like OHIO.

I'm greatly encouraged by the shape the Athens' campus is taking to go along with the latest master plan the University has released. MANY have long said that Ohio University's campus in Athens in one of our greatest strengths as a school, and I agree. We've got as nice of a backdrop for a college as you could ask for, and projects like this provide facilities that enhance that setting.
I get what you are saying, but who is the infrastructure going to serve in 15 years? I see a reckoning coming for higher education. Online degree availability and skyrocketing costs for a traditional campus setting are going reduce enrollment at residential based campuses. It is going to happen. And the statehouses across the country are going to reshuffle funding formulas to keep the struggling schools open (like Akron and Youngstown in Ohio) as long as they can and that funding is going to come at the expense of the schools doing "well" (like Ohio, Kent in Ohio). States are not going to increase funding (taxes) for higher education -- not even the liberal states. We gotta keep the Athens campus affordable for as long as we can (and the city of Athens viable for as long as we can)....somehow.... I'll repeat, I'd turn the focus now to scholarships to help reduce the real cost to students....
Last Edited: 5/16/2016 11:44:26 AM by Ohio69
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giacomo
5/16/2016 4:50 PM
I'm looking at this thing differently than most. As a former scholarship athlete, I'm concerned when it appears that something is further segregating the athletes from the regular student body. This appears to be one of those things and I can understand where some university factions are not behind it, no matter the funding source. If there truly is a need for this center, maybe it has more to do with athletes spending too much mandatory time at their sport and athletes who are not prepared or can't do the work. I simply went to the library or study room in my dorm. I realize that times have changed, but doesn't everyone also have a smart phone/tablet/laptop and isn't the entire university wired? And what about the library? Is there capacity there than could be used? It smacks of an arms race sort of statement. I'd like to hear about why we would truly need this center for athletes other than "somebody donated the money".
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Recovering Journalist
5/16/2016 5:35 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
I guess I'm missing something here. Our number one customer is the student. Our number one resource is the faculty. I would think that faculty input on anything that affects the student would be a legitimate conversation.
Completely agree, and it's something we tend to lose sight of on here in our fandom. As others have pointed out, the world is changing fast. It is totally reasonable in this environment to question things, and the professors are well within their rights here, even if they are tilting at windmills.

I don't share the apocalyptic view of all brick and mortar campuses working towards extinction, but weak ones are already closing and more will follow. The state of Ohio continues to cut state funding for higher ed, so the weak schools in this state are particularly vulnerable. As an example, in 1987, 49% of OU's budget came from the state. Today that number is 24%. That's typical for state schools in Ohio. It's a tough environment, and likely to get tougher.
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Alan Swank
5/16/2016 9:31 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
I'm looking at this thing differently than most. As a former scholarship athlete, I'm concerned when it appears that something is further segregating the athletes from the regular student body. This appears to be one of those things and I can understand where some university factions are not behind it, no matter the funding source. If there truly is a need for this center, maybe it has more to do with athletes spending too much mandatory time at their sport and athletes who are not prepared or can't do the work. I simply went to the library or study room in my dorm. I realize that times have changed, but doesn't everyone also have a smart phone/tablet/laptop and isn't the entire university wired? And what about the library? Is there capacity there than could be used? It smacks of an arms race sort of statement. I'd like to hear about why we would truly need this center for athletes other than "somebody donated the money".
Could not have said it better even if it isn't a popular position on this site.
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TWT
5/17/2016 12:16 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Wes, if you are talking strictly undergraduate, I would have to agree with you, but as a total institution Miami is falling farther and farther behind OHIO every year. We have many more graduate programs at the Ph.D. and master's level than Miami, and we have a medical school, which is now the largest in the state in terms of total enrollment, with the two new campuses in Dublin and in Cleveland. As a comprehensive university we are leaving Miami in the dust . . . where they belong.
I'll give you an example of the battle that Miami is facing. Take a graduate from an Ohio High School with a 3.5 with an ACT of 28. A pretty good student but just below the level where they start picking up serious scholarships. At Miami that student would have to pay $14,736 a year in tuition. At Ohio base tuition is $10,536 but that same student would qualify for an Ohio signature award which takes the price down to $5,536. That is a difference of $9000 dollars a year. A kid like that will check out Oxford and then once they get down to Athens see a place more vibrant and with the cost difference it will be an easy decision.

http://miamioh.edu/about-miami/tuition-promise /
https://www.ohio.edu/finance/bursar/upload/16-17_Athens.pdf
https://www.ohio.edu/admissions/tuition/scholfinaid/signa...
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BillyTheCat
5/17/2016 12:17 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
I would actually rather see the donations being used endow athletic scholarships. Heck just about all fundraising now should be focused on scholarships/affordability.
I disagree.

College affordability is certainly an increasingly major challenge many students today face in attending college, but I don't believe focusing fundraising on subsidizing students time in college is a sustainable, long-term, solution to that issue.

A donation towards the infrastructure of campus is a long-term investment in Ohio University. (Athens) bricks and mortar is crucial to our campus. Without the proper infrastructure in place, we might as well pack up shop and offer solely online classes. It'd certainly make it cheaper for students, while also destroying the learning environment created outside the classroom at colleges like OHIO.

I'm greatly encouraged by the shape the Athens' campus is taking to go along with the latest master plan the University has released. MANY have long said that Ohio University's campus in Athens in one of our greatest strengths as a school, and I agree. We've got as nice of a backdrop for a college as you could ask for, and projects like this provide facilities that enhance that setting.
Ohio in the last 30 years has gone from a school with $30 million dollar endowment and 13,000 students to a school with a $600 million dollar endowment at 23,000 students. With enrollment at record levels and the master plan another 10 years of growth is on the way. The schools financial health is at an unprecedented level. The school is high enough of on the food chain where it can survive another great recession or a significant decline in the number of Ohio HS graduates. If I was Miami, I'd be getting pretty nervous since the relative distance between the two schools in quality is declining every year.
I completely agree.

The only sorts who need to be worried are the BillyTheCat types... The monopoly is falling!
Really??? If you think I'm not an OHIO fan you have no idea who I am then. Do I laugh at those who see everything through green glasses? Sure I do, but I also have delusions that we are going to rise to the top of the NCAA level the resources simply are not there. Heck, if we are so flush with cash, why do we no longer keep the green space looking beautiful, things painted on campus and buildings repaired. Our answer to the decrease in the states funding of education has been to increase revenue through growth, but the support staff that serves the students has rapidly decreased while the numbers of bloated middle management has exploded, as have their salaries. And changes in federal law and limitations on how many hours that GA's and Interns can work due to the ACA are impacting campus right now and we are going to see that moving into next year.
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TWT
5/17/2016 12:41 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I would actually rather see the donations being used endow athletic scholarships. Heck just about all fundraising now should be focused on scholarships/affordability.
I disagree.

College affordability is certainly an increasingly major challenge many students today face in attending college, but I don't believe focusing fundraising on subsidizing students time in college is a sustainable, long-term, solution to that issue.

A donation towards the infrastructure of campus is a long-term investment in Ohio University. (Athens) bricks and mortar is crucial to our campus. Without the proper infrastructure in place, we might as well pack up shop and offer solely online classes. It'd certainly make it cheaper for students, while also destroying the learning environment created outside the classroom at colleges like OHIO.

I'm greatly encouraged by the shape the Athens' campus is taking to go along with the latest master plan the University has released. MANY have long said that Ohio University's campus in Athens in one of our greatest strengths as a school, and I agree. We've got as nice of a backdrop for a college as you could ask for, and projects like this provide facilities that enhance that setting.
Ohio in the last 30 years has gone from a school with $30 million dollar endowment and 13,000 students to a school with a $600 million dollar endowment at 23,000 students. With enrollment at record levels and the master plan another 10 years of growth is on the way. The schools financial health is at an unprecedented level. The school is high enough of on the food chain where it can survive another great recession or a significant decline in the number of Ohio HS graduates. If I was Miami, I'd be getting pretty nervous since the relative distance between the two schools in quality is declining every year.
I completely agree.

The only sorts who need to be worried are the BillyTheCat types... The monopoly is falling!
Really??? If you think I'm not an OHIO fan you have no idea who I am then. Do I laugh at those who see everything through green glasses? Sure I do, but I also have delusions that we are going to rise to the top of the NCAA level the resources simply are not there. Heck, if we are so flush with cash, why do we no longer keep the green space looking beautiful, things painted on campus and buildings repaired. Our answer to the decrease in the states funding of education has been to increase revenue through growth, but the support staff that serves the students has rapidly decreased while the numbers of bloated middle management has exploded, as have their salaries. And changes in federal law and limitations on how many hours that GA's and Interns can work due to the ACA are impacting campus right now and we are going to see that moving into next year.
Billy there hasn't been a decrease in state funding for Ohio. The latest budget from the state gave the Athens campus $157 million, 3 times what it was 30 years ago. As a percentage of the overall university budget its decreased that is true but its not in absolute dollars. Miami only received $72 million from the statehouse. To say Ohio is in a structurally bad position for the future of higher education is faulty logic when its the lowest cost and most highly subsidized per undergraduate in the state.
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rpbobcat
5/17/2016 7:27 AM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
I'm looking at this thing differently than most. As a former scholarship athlete, I'm concerned when it appears that something is further segregating the athletes from the regular student body. This appears to be one of those things and I can understand where some university factions are not behind it, no matter the funding source. If there truly is a need for this center, maybe it has more to do with athletes spending too much mandatory time at their sport and athletes who are not prepared or can't do the work. I simply went to the library or study room in my dorm. I realize that times have changed, but doesn't everyone also have a smart phone/tablet/laptop and isn't the entire university wired? And what about the library? Is there capacity there than could be used? It smacks of an arms race sort of statement. I'd like to hear about why we would truly need this center for athletes other than "somebody donated the money".
As a former D1 athlete myself,I'd like to make a few points:

1.As I've said before,an Academic Center already exists.
This project is for providing an upgraded facility.

2.As far as I know,no one forces athletes to use the Academic Center.
They are still free to study where/how they chose.

3.I don't agree that having an Academic Center "segregates" athletes anymore then organizations like the 110 that have mandatory study halls for their members.
When I was at O.U. I pledged Pershing Rifles.
We had mandatory study halls a few nights a week.

4.Any activity that you devote a lot of your time to "isolates" you.
Maybe its different now,but when I was at O.U. most guys who were in frats spent most of their time with their "brothers".
The 110 takes up a big chunk of members time.They even point that out in their "Perspective Members" web page.

People tend to associate with people who have similar interests.I found it particularly acute with athletes,since they understand the commitment needed to both academics and athletics.
Last Edited: 5/17/2016 7:28:50 AM by rpbobcat
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Kinggeorge4
5/17/2016 11:07 AM
I can speak on the library part. Alden is very crowded at times. Over my 25 years in that building, the busy times have continued to increase longer and longer. I can walk through a floor and see no seats left multiple times a day. This is very different from my times as a student in the late 80's. The more centers across campus may help.
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giacomo
5/17/2016 11:31 AM
If Alden is always full, then there is a some compelling reason, perhaps. I was trying to get enrollment numbers across the years. I found a number of 17,000 current undergrad enrollment. Does anyone know what total enrollment is with graduate studies included? Also, I wonder what it was in the 70's and 80's.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
5/17/2016 11:58 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
I'm looking at this thing differently than most. As a former scholarship athlete, I'm concerned when it appears that something is further segregating the athletes from the regular student body. This appears to be one of those things and I can understand where some university factions are not behind it, no matter the funding source. If there truly is a need for this center, maybe it has more to do with athletes spending too much mandatory time at their sport and athletes who are not prepared or can't do the work. I simply went to the library or study room in my dorm. I realize that times have changed, but doesn't everyone also have a smart phone/tablet/laptop and isn't the entire university wired? And what about the library? Is there capacity there than could be used? It smacks of an arms race sort of statement. I'd like to hear about why we would truly need this center for athletes other than "somebody donated the money".
Could not have said it better even if it isn't a popular position on this site.
Alan and I agree again! :)
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OhioCatFan
5/17/2016 12:11 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
. . . Heck, if we are so flush with cash, why do we no longer keep the green space looking beautiful, things painted on campus and buildings repaired. . . .
+1

This is one of my pet peeves. The lack of funding for routine maintenance on campus is appalling. In fact, campus is beginning to look like it is maintained by the Athens City street maintenance crew, Pothole Removal Division.
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BillyTheCat
5/17/2016 2:30 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . Heck, if we are so flush with cash, why do we no longer keep the green space looking beautiful, things painted on campus and buildings repaired. . . .
+1

This is one of my pet peeves. The lack of funding for routine maintenance on campus is appalling. In fact, campus is beginning to look like it is maintained by the Athens City street maintenance crew, Pothole Removal Division.
OCF, these people that only come back for special occasions or do not see the old grey lady on a regular basis are blinded by the joy of coming "home". If we are so flush with cash why are we allowing these basic things to fail?

And OCF, as much as I enjoy teasing on you, I do like your honest comments regarding the status of our beloved institution.
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Kinggeorge4
5/17/2016 2:41 PM
Now Alden isn't full every hour, just a lot more than in the past. An example, Friday morning at 10am the second floor has been nearly full. This isn't finals week or last week of classes. This is the week 2, 3 and beyond. When I first started, you barely could find a person at the time in the morning on a Friday.
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Bobcatbob
5/17/2016 3:37 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
If Alden is always full, then there is a some compelling reason, perhaps. I was trying to get enrollment numbers across the years. I found a number of 17,000 current undergrad enrollment. Does anyone know what total enrollment is with graduate studies included? Also, I wonder what it was in the 70's and 80's.
I can only speak to the early '70's when the campus population was something like 13,000 restless souls. Many of them, including a number of student athletes I knew, spent a great deal of time in bars that sold 3.2 beer in pitchers, freeing up a tremendous amount of space in Alden.

Also in those pre-internet, pre-PC days you REALLY needed Alden and it's Reference room. Seriously, I do not remember a time when I couldn't find a spot at a large table with more than 1 or 2 other people to share it.
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