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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Getting sick of stupid penalties
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sargentfan
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Posted: 10/10/2016 9:44 AM
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Really frustrating that the coaching staff has talked about being more disciplined and yet game after game we have our guys giving our opponents free yards and keeping them on the field.

I'm especially getting sick of Blair Brown's continued recklessness. The guy is a good talent, but he just keeps hurting himself with practically a huge penalty every game. It is one thing to not want to hold back a good player, it's another thing not to see any improvement in his decision making as the year goes on.
bobcat695
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Posted: 10/10/2016 10:36 AM
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The penalties are nothing more than self above team. They kill drives on offense, extend drives on defense and lose the battle of field position. This is 100% on the coaching staff for not creating an environment where there is zero tolerance for such critical errors is judgement. The captains on the field also shoulder some of the blame by not controlling their teammates before it escalates to a penalty.

If there truly was a culture of accountability to the team, this wouldn't happen every game. Bitching about the referee's judgement call on the post-game radio interview with Russ is a weak way to handle it.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 10/10/2016 10:47 AM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
The penalties are nothing more than self above team. . . .
+1 That hits the nail on the head. If I was Frank I'd call a team meeting just to discuss this very issue. Maybe he has, but in terms of Mr. Brown the message seems not to have gotten through his thick skull. Maybe a little time on the bench would help him with the proper attitude adjustment. Over the years I've often made positive comparisons between the way Bill Hess coached and Frank coaches. This, however, is one area where Hess was superior to Frank. Hess would never have tolerated this kind of behavior.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 10/10/2016 11:07 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
The penalties are nothing more than self above team. . . .
+1 That hits the nail on the head. If I was Frank I'd call a team meeting just to discuss this very issue. Maybe he has, but in terms of Mr. Brown the message seems not to have gotten through his thick skull. Maybe a little time on the bench would help him with the proper attitude adjustment. Over the years I've often made positive comparisons between the way Bill Hess coached and Frank coaches. This, however, is one area where Hess was superior to Frank. Hess would never have tolerated this kind of behavior.
Nor did Grobe. Once when I arrived to watch a practice, I saw a Bobcat running laps. I asked Grobe why. His reply: "He said the wrong word."
ytownbobcat
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Posted: 10/10/2016 11:15 AM
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Some of the calls were borderline.

In today's injury conscious game there is an emphasis to make the game "safer"

I think the call against Sayles was in this category, same with Brown.

Brown is a physical player and needs to be more aware of the environment the referees are enforcing these days.

The other call was against one of our young DB's. I think it was not vicious either.

Today's game has changed. Lots of pressure on refs to sort all of this out and there is a lot of second guessing on their calls.
C Money
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Posted: 10/10/2016 11:27 AM
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Does the 5 yard "no pass interference" zone still apply? I thought we got away with a really bad no-call PI on Hagan's INT. The defender pretty blatantly shoved the receiver well before the ball arrived, and Hagan picked it off as it flew into the secondary. Some of the people I was sitting with thought was maybe it was a good no-call because it was less than 5 yards downfield, but it was a crossing route well after the receiver made his break, and I thought the 5 yard bump rule wouldn't apply after the break.
sargentfan
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Posted: 10/10/2016 1:28 PM
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ytownbobcat wrote:expand_more
Some of the calls were borderline.

In today's injury conscious game there is an emphasis to make the game "safer"

I think the call against Sayles was in this category, same with Brown.

Brown is a physical player and needs to be more aware of the environment the referees are enforcing these days.

The other call was against one of our young DB's. I think it was not vicious either.

Today's game has changed. Lots of pressure on refs to sort all of this out and there is a lot of second guessing on their calls.
The hit by Sayles was clearly late and no way from the angle he was pursuing that he didn't see that the QB had already passed the ball. You can tell by comparatively how weak his hit was compared to if he had been going full steam. As for Brown I no longer give him the benefit of the doubt with the frequent late hit calls he has had this season and the officials won't either.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 10/10/2016 2:26 PM
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C Money wrote:expand_more
Does the 5 yard "no pass interference" zone still apply? I thought we got away with a really bad no-call PI on Hagan's INT. The defender pretty blatantly shoved the receiver well before the ball arrived, and Hagan picked it off as it flew into the secondary. Some of the people I was sitting with thought was maybe it was a good no-call because it was less than 5 yards downfield, but it was a crossing route well after the receiver made his break, and I thought the 5 yard bump rule wouldn't apply after the break.
No such thing as no DPI within 5 yards, never has been within the last generation of football. On that play I'd say the call was simply missed.
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 10/10/2016 2:33 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Does the 5 yard "no pass interference" zone still apply? I thought we got away with a really bad no-call PI on Hagan's INT. The defender pretty blatantly shoved the receiver well before the ball arrived, and Hagan picked it off as it flew into the secondary. Some of the people I was sitting with thought was maybe it was a good no-call because it was less than 5 yards downfield, but it was a crossing route well after the receiver made his break, and I thought the 5 yard bump rule wouldn't apply after the break.
No such thing as no DPI within 5 yards, never has been within the last generation of football. On that play I'd say the call was simply missed.
Plus, I think that was the play after the Kylan Nelson call. No way they were going to throw another flag.
C Money
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Posted: 10/10/2016 3:25 PM
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Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
Does the 5 yard "no pass interference" zone still apply? I thought we got away with a really bad no-call PI on Hagan's INT. The defender pretty blatantly shoved the receiver well before the ball arrived, and Hagan picked it off as it flew into the secondary. Some of the people I was sitting with thought was maybe it was a good no-call because it was less than 5 yards downfield, but it was a crossing route well after the receiver made his break, and I thought the 5 yard bump rule wouldn't apply after the break.
No such thing as no DPI within 5 yards, never has been within the last generation of football. On that play I'd say the call was simply missed.
Plus, I think that was the play after the Kylan Nelson call. No way they were going to throw another flag.
Yep, that was the one. The thought occurred that maybe it was a make-up call.

Edit: here's the play. Blair Brown on the coverage.
https://youtu.be/Gw01mdsKM94?t=3m10s
Last Edited: 10/10/2016 3:29:00 PM by C Money
SBH
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Posted: 10/10/2016 3:53 PM
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Just notice something in that video. At 5:02, who is that in motion??
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 10/10/2016 4:07 PM
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It was Papi White. He was in for that one play but seemingly only as a decoy.
Ohio69
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Posted: 10/10/2016 4:13 PM
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I don't think Blair Brown was late. He's 1 yard away when the guy pulls his arm back to throw, and his follow through comes down on top of Brown's pads.

Maybe he was to high (they are almost head to head)? Maybe there were some verbal warnings from refs before that? I don't know. But, it looked fine to me.
Last Edited: 10/10/2016 4:13:59 PM by Ohio69
sargentfan
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Posted: 10/10/2016 4:22 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
I don't think Blair Brown was late. He's 1 yard away when the guy pulls his arm back to throw, and his follow through comes down on top of Brown's pads.

Maybe he was to high (they are almost head to head)? Maybe there were some verbal warnings from refs before that? I don't know. But, it looked fine to me.
Yes on the Brown penalty it was because he hit helmet to helmet.
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 10/10/2016 9:41 PM
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From Solich's press conference:

On how he doesn’t always have time to address a player following a big penalty:
“Generally it doesn't do any good at that point in time. Now you’ve got to make it known that if it was a ridiculous penalty, ‘hey, that can’t happen again.’ But to extend a conversation with a player and be in his face a lot, most of them are down already because of it. Some of them may not have even recognized or felt that it shouldn’t have been called. Then you just kind of ignite things a little bit and to me that does not make sense, you’ve got a lot of time to address penalties ahead of the next game. You do need to get in control of your football team if there is pushing and shoving going on out there and battles going on out there so sometimes when that's happening you address the individual but you may even address the unit on the sideline. And you may address your whole football team during a timeout, the guys who are ready to go up and down the field and then the sideline because that stuff will beat you in an instant when you’re players get out of control. Those kinds of things you need to work on right at the moment.”

Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 10/11/2016 8:16 AM
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I didn't watch the game, but from the highlights it looked like the interception on BG's sideline could easily have drawn a taunting penalty, but it was not called. Discipline is still severely lacking on this team.
L.C.
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Posted: 10/11/2016 9:55 AM
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Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
I didn't watch the game, but from the highlights it looked like the interception on BG's sideline could easily have drawn a taunting penalty, but it was not called. Discipline is still severely lacking on this team.

It certainly looked to me like one should have been called. I have always believed in letting my actions do my talking. On the other hand, the late hit penalties that result from playing aggressively, which sometimes means late contact, are something that is going to happen.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 10/11/2016 10:54 AM
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Since I thought his hit was late last week, I'll be fair and say that the penalty on Blair Brown this week was bullcrap. He was called for a shot to the head, and it was nothing of the like.

Now... that said... you get a reputation and the refs will be more sensitive.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 10/11/2016 12:23 PM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Since I thought his hit was late last week, I'll be fair and say that the penalty on Blair Brown this week was bullcrap. He was called for a shot to the head, and it was nothing of the like.

Now... that said... you get a reputation and the refs will be more sensitive.
Two things at play here.

1. QB was a defenseless player

2. On a defenseless player you can not be at or above the shoulders, Brown was clearly above the shoulders. And you do not have to use your helmet for this penalty.
Cats2014
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Posted: 10/11/2016 2:35 PM
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I agree 100% that the players on this team need to get ahold of themselves. It seems that every time a play is made by someone on defense, they think it was the greatest thing that has ever happened. Really? Get a grip, guys. Go out and play the game and quit dancing and all the BS. It gets old. yeah yeah yeah, these are young kids. I know I'm going to hear that excuse. So what? Learn how to be a man and quit the showboating. But... I like this team, their ability and their potential !
Ohio69
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Posted: 10/11/2016 3:10 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Since I thought his hit was late last week, I'll be fair and say that the penalty on Blair Brown this week was bullcrap. He was called for a shot to the head, and it was nothing of the like.

Now... that said... you get a reputation and the refs will be more sensitive.
Two things at play here.

1. QB was a defenseless player

2. On a defenseless player you can not be at or above the shoulders, Brown was clearly above the shoulders. And you do not have to use your helmet for this penalty.
Yeah - this sounds right....

We definitely seem like we like to showboat a bit. Better win if you are going to.
Last Edited: 10/11/2016 3:10:42 PM by Ohio69
ExCat21
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Posted: 10/11/2016 4:17 PM
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I was at the game and watched it. Yes we are a little undisciplined but this team has more sophomores and juniors than upperclassmen. No excuse for the penalties. I know Blair plays fast and hard. The penalty Saturday was for hands to the head not a targeting type penalty. Our course it gave up the first down but I would never sit one of my top players on Defense unless it was a penalty after the play that caused a personal foul. Address it- Yes! Sit my top player out for hustling and trying to get to the QB- No! Some of you guys are putting him in the category of Vontaze Burfict from the Bengals. Other teams fear our LB core with Poling and Brown. If he swung at another player....coach...or ref..yes sir his butt down. Thats not bobcat football. Other han that....address it and move on.
Last Edited: 10/11/2016 4:18:53 PM by ExCat21
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