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Topic: Blair Brown
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bobcat695
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Posted: 10/22/2016 4:25 PM
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Knock it off. The entire team has a general lack of discipline, but Blair Brown is the clear leader when it comes to garnering ridiculously stupid penalties. Shame on the coaching staff for allowing it to happen every single week.
Last Edited: 10/22/2016 5:58:25 PM by bobcat695
allen
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Posted: 10/22/2016 4:30 PM
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he needs to play like a senior. If he does it again, he needs to be benched for a game. I love his aggressive play, but it needs to be tempered.
BobcatSports
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Posted: 10/22/2016 4:35 PM
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Thought the call on him today was really, really chickens-it. Even Fox commented he didn't see a flag called for there. Refs obviously are not giving him any benefit of the doubt based on his past.
bobcat695
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Posted: 10/22/2016 4:38 PM
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He head-butted the QB in front of an official. Throwing his hands up in the air immediately afterwards doesn't mean it didn't happen.
DallasCat
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Posted: 10/22/2016 5:00 PM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
He head-butted the QB in front of an official. Throwing his hands up in the air immediately afterwards doesn't mean it didn't happen.
He barely made any contact. Calling that a headbutt is a huge reach. That call was weak.
Cats-22
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Posted: 10/22/2016 5:10 PM
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DallasCat wrote:expand_more
He barely made any contact. Calling that a headbutt is a huge reach. That call was weak.
I agree, bad call. But the refs are going to be looking for him to commit fouls from here on out, so he needs to keep it extra clean.
Last Edited: 10/22/2016 5:11:09 PM by Cats-22
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 10/22/2016 5:11 PM
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Penalties...bad ones--holding on a fair catch, roughing passer and sideline celebration both called on same play, etc, etc...

If they keep happening and happening and happening and if they are a bad thing, then what should we conclude, what should be done?
L.C.
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Posted: 10/22/2016 6:28 PM
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As has been pointed out in the past, penalties can be divided into two types. The first type is what I would call pointless penalties, and would include things like procedure penalties, illegal formations, delay of game, and penalties after the play. These penalties are negatively correlated with winning. The second type of penalties are what I would call aggressive penalties, penalties that result from playing aggressively. Aggressive penalties are positively correlated to winning - i.e., teams which play aggressively tend to get more penalties, but tend to win, while teams that play more passively tend not to be penalized, but also tend not to win.

I usually get attacked when I point this out, but it's the way it is. I'm not suggesting that anyone should deliberately get more penalties. What I am suggesting is that if you play all out, to the whistle, and really get after it, you'll sometimes get a penalty in the process.

I despise seeing procedure penalties, and I have little tolerance for taunting penalties, or penalties after the play. Some of the other penalties are just a result of playing 100% speed on every play.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 10/22/2016 6:44 PM
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Okay, then is the level of penalties we have (one type or any other) typical across college football?

Do we see it often from the teams we play?

What rate and type of penalties do we typically see from the best programs?


Do we see the best...or even good..coaches have this as a persistent problem or do they get it fixed?
ytownbobcat
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Posted: 10/22/2016 6:52 PM
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The call on Brown for roughing the passer was a terrible call. He barely made contact. However, I don't agree that he is targeted by officials.
This is simply a bad officiating crew. We have had them twice, I think. I expect they are hearing about over-officiating during this game from their supervisor.
We probably get them one more time against Buffalo.
Take the win and move on.
Blair Brown - don't change a thing -stay focused and play football.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 10/22/2016 7:26 PM
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Cats-22 wrote:expand_more
He barely made any contact. Calling that a headbutt is a huge reach. That call was weak.
I agree, bad call. But the refs are going to be looking for him to commit fouls from here on out, so he needs to keep it extra clean.
These sort of posts puzzle me because the take away that I get is that the refs are biased and therefore cheat.
Cats-22
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Posted: 10/22/2016 7:45 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
He barely made any contact. Calling that a headbutt is a huge reach. That call was weak.
I agree, bad call. But the refs are going to be looking for him to commit fouls from here on out, so he needs to keep it extra clean.
These sort of posts puzzle me because the take away that I get is that the refs are biased and therefore cheat.
I do think refs are influenced by players' reputations and past behavior. I wouldn't call that cheating, though. It's kind of like a second grade teacher who keeps an extra eye on the student who is known to sneak gum into class. It might be the best way to enforce the rules.

I think Blair Brown's penalty in this case wasn't a penalty, but Brown could have played it cleaner. It's kind of in a gray area between LC's pointless penalty vs. aggressive penalty categories IMO.

And, there's a chance it only got called because it was #33 involved. I could be wrong about that, it's just my second-hand impression of how refs operate sometimes.
Last Edited: 10/22/2016 7:58:02 PM by Cats-22
bshot44
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Posted: 10/22/2016 7:54 PM
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Bad call or not...Brown continues to put himself in these positions every damn week. Why is he even making ANY contact with the QB 3+ secs after the throw. He definitely went in and tilted his head at the QB. Why? Why, I ask? Totally 1000% unnecessary. He does it every week. Every. Week.
bobcat695
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Posted: 10/22/2016 8:26 PM
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How are we all watching the exact same footage, yet seeing it differently? It was a few seconds after the QB released the ball, and he hit him in the head with his helmet. His hands were not even making contact. We're all biased hoping Ohio does well, but I cannot understand how people here think the refs have it out for Blair. I don't like the rule, but I saw it called several times today in many games.

It's fine to play like a maniac during the play. It's not after the play is over. That's the part of all this that annoys me. LC, there's a difference between aggressiveness and wrecklessness. Usually, the difference is 15 yds.
L.C.
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Posted: 10/22/2016 9:18 PM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
...
It's fine to play like a maniac during the play. It's not after the play is over. That's the part of all this that annoys me. LC, there's a difference between aggressiveness and wrecklessness. Usually, the difference is 15 yds.

Note that in my pointless penalties I include "penalties after the play". If you play like a maniac, though, you are going to be involved in some stuff that gets called.
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 10/22/2016 9:23 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Okay, then is the level of penalties we have (one type or any other) typical across college football?

Do we see it often from the teams we play?

What rate and type of penalties do we typically see from the best programs?


Do we see the best...or even good..coaches have this as a persistent problem or do they get it fixed?
Those are good questions. I was looking at the NCAA penalty stats. Not surprisingly, Ohio ranks poorly. 104th of 128 teams for fewest yards, but only 5 spots behind Ohio State. Texas Tech is worst in the nation (most yards), followed by Marshall, Oregon, Florida State, Louisville, Cal San Diego State. Some really good teams have been penalized a lot. The least penalty yards per game are Navy is first and Northwestern second, followed by Ball State, UConn, Duke, Wake Forest, Buffalo and Kent State.
Dietz80
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Posted: 10/22/2016 10:29 PM
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bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Bad call or not...Brown continues to put himself in these positions every damn week. Why is he even making ANY contact with the QB 3+ secs after the throw. He definitely went in and tilted his head at the QB. Why? Why, I ask? Totally 1000% unnecessary. He does it every week. Every. Week.
I'll take 11 Blair Browns. The field will be covered in flags and sh*t. MAC offenses fear Blair.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:03 AM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
...
It's fine to play like a maniac during the play. It's not after the play is over. That's the part of all this that annoys me. LC, there's a difference between aggressiveness and wrecklessness. Usually, the difference is 15 yds.

Note that in my pointless penalties I include "penalties after the play". If you play like a maniac, though, you are going to be involved in some stuff that gets called.

I fail to understand why a any player...here a senior...can't understand the difference between legal and/or before the whistle and after the whistle and/or illegal.

Playing with emotion 'like a maniac' should not mean one gets foolish penalties.

This one's on the coaches as much ..more so..than on the players. The coaches are more mature and manage the game.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 10/23/2016 6:54 AM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
How are we all watching the exact same footage, yet seeing it differently? It was a few seconds after the QB released the ball, and he hit him in the head with his helmet. His hands were not even making contact. We're all biased hoping Ohio does well, but I cannot understand how people here think the refs have it out for Blair. I don't like the rule, but I saw it called several times today in many games.

It's fine to play like a maniac during the play. It's not after the play is over. That's the part of all this that annoys me. LC, there's a difference between aggressiveness and wrecklessness. Usually, the difference is 15 yds.
Didn't see it that way at all. Of course, I've only seen one replay and that was immediately after the play. It appeared to me he was no more than a step or two from the QB when the ball was thrown, meaning contact would have been made in about 1 second after the throw.

Also, I do not recall seeing helmet-to-helmet contact. Seems to me Brown hit him with his chest/shoulder pads, and in my mind he clearly pulled up and did not deliver a full blow.

Granted, I HATE that rule so I'm biased against it. But in this case, I think it was a bad application of a bad rule.
bshot44
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Posted: 10/23/2016 8:24 AM
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Whether it was a bad call or not isn't the point. The point is why does Brown ALWAYS find himself in these positions. Just reckless as a player and continues to cost Ohio with that recklessness. Absurd.

I rewatched the play and he definitely stuck his head down at Holley.

1:59:23 into ESPN3 replay if you want to go back. I'd add freeze frame, but can't add images on this message board.
Pataskala
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:26 AM
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The thing that probably tipped off the ref was when he raised his hands. That usually means the player knows he's done something at least borderline. Refs will flag that nine times out of ten.

I want him -- and the others -- to keep up the intensity, but be smarter about it.
allen
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:44 AM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
The thing that probably tipped off the ref was when he raised his hands. That usually means the player knows he's done something at least borderline. Refs will flag that nine times out of ten.

I want him -- and the others -- to keep up the intensity, but be smarter about it.
+1
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:19 PM
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It wasn't a late hit and it wasn't a hard hit, but what it was was BB lowering his head and bumping the qb in the helmet. In this day and age, it's a penalty. Every. time.

Since someone mentioned those other "good" teams who also get penalized a lot... well, let's consider that those teams put up 600 yards per game. We put up 350. If you put up 600 yards and score 50, you have a little more margin for error. If you're in a nip-tuck game between two completely incompetent offenses, penalties can absolutely make the difference. If we had that kind of production, the penalties are a little more forgivable.

If we want to keep company with those teams, we need to be there in more categories than just most penalty yards.
Last Edited: 10/23/2016 12:20:37 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:39 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
I usually get attacked when I point this out, but it's the way it is. I'm not suggesting that anyone should deliberately get more penalties. What I am suggesting is that if you play all out, to the whistle, and really get after it, you'll sometimes get a penalty in the process.
You should get attacked because other than strategic use of pass interference to save a touchdown against a game breaking WR aggressive penalties don't help a team out. Facemask and Targeting penalties make a team think twice about trying it in a game situation. I'd want those rules to protect my own players from injury.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:48 PM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Since someone mentioned those other "good" teams who also get penalized a lot... well, let's consider that those teams put up 600 yards per game. We put up 350. If you put up 600 yards and score 50, you have a little more margin for error. If you're in a nip-tuck game between two completely incompetent offenses, penalties can absolutely make the difference. If we had that kind of production, the penalties are a little more forgivable.
Occasionally a facemask against an offense in its own territory to not hurt you going 3 and out the next series with a poor punt but most of the time a 15 yard penalty makes a difference in a drive. Targeting hurts 100% of time with the player ejected for the next game. What is the limit on personal fouls? Two and the player is ejected from the game?
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