menu
Logo
99+
Bobcat Attack Menu
Logo
99+
Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Analytics
Page: 1 of 2
mail
The Optimist
10/24/2016 2:47 PM
Interesting story on Nebraska football and analytics.
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17836319/...
At first thought, I wouldn't think of Nebraska as a program on the "cutting-edge" of sports but I also don't think "analytics" are really as "cutting-edge" as some people make the topic out to be. Analytics is literally just using data to make more informed decisions. The reason analytics are so big today is because computers make the data more easy to compile and interpret.

I've been curious for awhile what level analytics play in operations of the various sports teams in Ohio's program. I'm skeptical that our athletic program employs anyone in this area, but with our great sports management school, I've held out a shred of hope that my assumption is off-base. At the very least, I wonder at what level our various coaches in any sport are using analytics on any level for scouting, recruiting, game-decisions, etc etc...
mail
OU_Country
10/25/2016 4:11 PM
This is a fascinating conversation to have about all sports. It's obviously huge in baseball now. I'd wonder how much it's used in hoops, and how it's applied there.

I would think that using analytics would be a must moving forward in college football, if only because everyone else will begin to at some point. The thing I would think that would be most useful in football is for situational tendencies on short yardage, third downs, etc. What scares me is that I have this gut feeling that OUr team probably has tendencies that would readily exposed by this approach.
mail
person
SBH
10/25/2016 4:40 PM
Isolating all of the things that are wrong with our program would be the very definition of a Big Data challenge.
mail
person
cbus cat fan
10/25/2016 10:06 PM
Any discussion about Analytics as far as MAC football is concerned should weigh the following:

How long can MAC football continue to surprise people i.e can we keep the talent coming our way? Remember how far we have come in 20 years. Remember at that time, the powers that be in the conference were fearing we might never get under the shadow of MAC basketball.

How many years will it take before the decrease currently seen in youth football makes it's way to college football? Would it stand to reason that the non-Power 5 would be the first to suffer in a decrease of the talent pool?

Will the coaching roulette wheel continue to take our up and coming MAC coaching talent and send it to the Power 5? Would someone of the caliber of a PJ Fleck ever stay?
mail
OU_Country
10/26/2016 11:02 AM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Any discussion about Analytics as far as MAC football is concerned should weigh the following:

How long can MAC football continue to surprise people i.e can we keep the talent coming our way? Remember how far we have come in 20 years. Remember at that time, the powers that be in the conference were fearing we might never get under the shadow of MAC basketball.

How many years will it take before the decrease currently seen in youth football makes it's way to college football? Would it stand to reason that the non-Power 5 would be the first to suffer in a decrease of the talent pool?

Will the coaching roulette wheel continue to take our up and coming MAC coaching talent and send it to the Power 5? Would someone of the caliber of a PJ Fleck ever stay?
Without directly doing so, you're pitching a good argument for the MAC turning it's focus more towards basketball. ;-)
mail
person
Monroe Slavin
10/26/2016 1:03 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Isolating all of the things that are wrong with our program would be the very definition of a Big Data challenge.


My man!
mail
The Optimist
10/26/2016 1:34 PM
As much as any of our programs, I would think our men's hoops program could benefit from a focus in this area. Beyond recruiting and game-decisions, I would think scheduling would be a huge focal point with how RPI (other ranking metrics) could factor into at-large bids.
mail
Kinggeorge4
10/26/2016 1:59 PM
How would turning our attention to basketball be so great? We only get one school in the dance right now and they are usually done quickly.
mail
person
L.C.
10/26/2016 2:37 PM
I presume the fact that the experimental Analytics program is in Lincoln is related to the fact that HUDL is headquartered here.
mail
OU_Country
10/26/2016 3:31 PM
Kinggeorge4 wrote:expand_more
How would turning our attention to basketball be so great? We only get one school in the dance right now and they are usually done quickly.
Simple - it's cost so much less to fund a basketball program simply because of the number of scholarships and staff required of football. Take even a portion of that and direct it to other sports. You know all those home games against better name opponents everyone wants? It's a lot easier to convince them to come to Athens if you're paying them because you have a bigger budget.
mail
OU_Country
10/26/2016 3:33 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
As much as any of our programs, I would think our men's hoops program could benefit from a focus in this area. Beyond recruiting and game-decisions, I would think scheduling would be a huge focal point with how RPI (other ranking metrics) could factor into at-large bids. [/QUOTE]I never thought of this application. Great idea.




[QUOTE=L.C.] I presume the fact that the experimental Analytics program is in Lincoln is related to the fact that HUDL is headquartered here.
Good catch!
mail
Kinggeorge4
10/26/2016 3:42 PM
I'm not sure it is really going to translate into the success you all think. The Convo is half empty most nights and the league would have to get a lot better to even sniff two teams going to the dance.
mail
The Optimist
10/26/2016 3:57 PM
Kinggeorge4 wrote:expand_more
the league would have to get a lot better to even sniff two teams going to the dance.
Strongly disagree.

To get two bids, you really only need one really good team. Then that really good team needs to get upset in the conference finals. The rest of the conference could be crap in this scenario and you could still get two-bids.

It's arguments like this that make me a huge believer in analytics.
mail
person
SBH
10/26/2016 4:19 PM
Except that the MAC's own history over the past 20 years proves you wrong. We've had some really good teams stay home after crapping out in the final.
mail
person
cbus cat fan
10/26/2016 4:31 PM
I made mention of this sometime ago in another post. However, the 20 year reference is from a conversation I had with a work colleague who is a trustee of another university and a former MAC head coach. He told me that 20 years ago the MAC could never have foreseen the success in football. It was assumed that the MAC's sports fortunes would always be with basketball. However, there was pressure for something to be done for football and suddenly after Urban Meyer's stint at Bowling Green expectations were raised. Now MAC coaches come and go to power conference schools and other coaches are on the hot seat far more than they were 20 years ago.

My concern is the coming crisis with fewer kids playing football and what that means for the future. There is a plethora of talent now for the Power 5 and non-Power 5, but not in a few years. What will that mean for Non- Power 5 schools? This is where analytics comes in and someone should be thinking about it.

We are in a golden era of MAC football. Who would have thought 20 years ago that we would have all of these bowl opportunities and ESPN coverage? However, the party train will eventually come to a stop. For someone who sat in Pedan during the mid and late 1980s and could literally count those in attendance, I am simply suggesting someone look into the logistics of what might happen.
mail
bshot44
10/26/2016 4:55 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
the league would have to get a lot better to even sniff two teams going to the dance.
Strongly disagree.

To get two bids, you really only need one really good team. Then that really good team needs to get upset in the conference finals. The rest of the conference could be crap in this scenario and you could still get two-bids.

It's arguments like this that make me a huge believer in analytics.
False. If Ohio goes 27-3 this year and they DON'T win the MAC tournament...they most likely are NIT bound.

You have to be a really good team....AND play a somewhat decent schedule. Beating up on Cleveland State, UW-Milwaukee, WKU and Tennessee Tech will not get you an at-large bid. When your "best" game is at Georgia Tech you are putting all your eggs in the MAC Tourney basket.

Ask Murray State a few years ago when they went 27-6....won 25 straight...lost in OVC title game and had RPI of 47. They did NOT get a bid because their SOS was 175th.

You HAVE to play someone....and ideally you HAVE to beat someone.

That's what is so frustrating about this year's hoop schedule. We might have an at-large worthy roster....but that schedule totally jams Ohio up. No way they get an at-large with that schedule.

Jim Christian had his faults...but I will say this (and honestly it might be more of a pat on the back to Groce if he set up schedule before he bolted)....but the year after Ohio's Sweet 16 run, the Cats played AT Memphis, AT Oklahoma, AT UMass, AT Robert Morris, AT Belmont...and had home games with Oakland, Richmond and St. Bonnie. All were Top 100 except RMU, SBU & Oakland who were all Top 200. That's an at-large worthy schedule if they had taken care of some business.

Instead they went 0-5 in those road games and that killed any chance they had before they started in the MAC where they went 15-1 (Belmont was BracketBuster mid-season)
mail
TheBobcatBandit
10/26/2016 5:22 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
I made mention of this sometime ago in another post. However, the 20 year reference is from a conversation I had with a work colleague who is a trustee of another university and a former MAC head coach. He told me that 20 years ago the MAC could never have foreseen the success in football. It was assumed that the MAC's sports fortunes would always be with basketball. However, there was pressure for something to be done for football and suddenly after Urban Meyer's stint at Bowling Green expectations were raised. Now MAC coaches come and go to power conference schools and other coaches are on the hot seat far more than they were 20 years ago.

My concern is the coming crisis with fewer kids playing football and what that means for the future. There is a plethora of talent now for the Power 5 and non-Power 5, but not in a few years. What will that mean for Non- Power 5 schools? This is where analytics comes in and someone should be thinking about it.

We are in a golden era of MAC football. Who would have thought 20 years ago that we would have all of these bowl opportunities and ESPN coverage? However, the party train will eventually come to a stop. For someone who sat in Pedan during the mid and late 1980s and could literally count those in attendance, I am simply suggesting someone look into the logistics of what might happen.
I think analytics would push to investing in soccer. While this might be unpopular now, soccer is growing like crazy in America. If we put the money in now to be a big time program. The reward in the future could be huge. We already have one of the best areas for recruiting. Ohio is one of the top states for soccer in the U.S. Look at Akron. We could easily emulate there success. It would not require anywhere near the investment we would need to make football compete with top programs.
mail
person
Ohio69
10/26/2016 5:48 PM
TheBobcatBandit wrote:expand_more
I made mention of this sometime ago in another post. However, the 20 year reference is from a conversation I had with a work colleague who is a trustee of another university and a former MAC head coach. He told me that 20 years ago the MAC could never have foreseen the success in football. It was assumed that the MAC's sports fortunes would always be with basketball. However, there was pressure for something to be done for football and suddenly after Urban Meyer's stint at Bowling Green expectations were raised. Now MAC coaches come and go to power conference schools and other coaches are on the hot seat far more than they were 20 years ago.

My concern is the coming crisis with fewer kids playing football and what that means for the future. There is a plethora of talent now for the Power 5 and non-Power 5, but not in a few years. What will that mean for Non- Power 5 schools? This is where analytics comes in and someone should be thinking about it.

We are in a golden era of MAC football. Who would have thought 20 years ago that we would have all of these bowl opportunities and ESPN coverage? However, the party train will eventually come to a stop. For someone who sat in Pedan during the mid and late 1980s and could literally count those in attendance, I am simply suggesting someone look into the logistics of what might happen.
I think analytics would push to investing in soccer. While this might be unpopular now, soccer is growing like crazy in America. If we put the money in now to be a big time program. The reward in the future could be huge. We already have one of the best areas for recruiting. Ohio is one of the top states for soccer in the U.S. Look at Akron. We could easily emulate there success. It would not require anywhere near the investment we would need to make football compete with top programs.

Oh man. For the future of US international soccer I hope college soccer doesn't get any more popular..... Let's skip this part and go the euro club model.
mail
person
BillyTheCat
10/26/2016 6:59 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
How would turning our attention to basketball be so great? We only get one school in the dance right now and they are usually done quickly.
Simple - it's cost so much less to fund a basketball program simply because of the number of scholarships and staff required of football. Take even a portion of that and direct it to other sports. You know all those home games against better name opponents everyone wants? It's a lot easier to convince them to come to Athens if you're paying them because you have a bigger budget.
Actually on a per player basis, it cost much more.
mail
person
BillyTheCat
10/26/2016 7:00 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Except that the MAC's own history over the past 20 years proves you wrong. We've had some really good teams stay home after crapping out in the final.
+1
mail
person
BillyTheCat
10/26/2016 7:05 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
I made mention of this sometime ago in another post. However, the 20 year reference is from a conversation I had with a work colleague who is a trustee of another university and a former MAC head coach. He told me that 20 years ago the MAC could never have foreseen the success in football. It was assumed that the MAC's sports fortunes would always be with basketball. However, there was pressure for something to be done for football and suddenly after Urban Meyer's stint at Bowling Green expectations were raised. Now MAC coaches come and go to power conference schools and other coaches are on the hot seat far more than they were 20 years ago.

My concern is the coming crisis with fewer kids playing football and what that means for the future. There is a plethora of talent now for the Power 5 and non-Power 5, but not in a few years. What will that mean for Non- Power 5 schools? This is where analytics comes in and someone should be thinking about it.

We are in a golden era of MAC football. Who would have thought 20 years ago that we would have all of these bowl opportunities and ESPN coverage? However, the party train will eventually come to a stop. For someone who sat in Pedan during the mid and late 1980s and could literally count those in attendance, I am simply suggesting someone look into the logistics of what might happen.

This myth of rapidly declining football participants is such a farce from those who love to support the university but dislike football is such a joke! Hell in 2015, numbers were up. Still 1.2 million kids play football. The sport is not going anywhere anytime soon.
mail
person
BillyTheCat
10/26/2016 7:05 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
the league would have to get a lot better to even sniff two teams going to the dance.
Strongly disagree.

To get two bids, you really only need one really good team. Then that really good team needs to get upset in the conference finals. The rest of the conference could be crap in this scenario and you could still get two-bids.

It's arguments like this that make me a huge believer in analytics.
False. If Ohio goes 27-3 this year and they DON'T win the MAC tournament...they most likely are NIT bound.

You have to be a really good team....AND play a somewhat decent schedule. Beating up on Cleveland State, UW-Milwaukee, WKU and Tennessee Tech will not get you an at-large bid. When your "best" game is at Georgia Tech you are putting all your eggs in the MAC Tourney basket.

Ask Murray State a few years ago when they went 27-6....won 25 straight...lost in OVC title game and had RPI of 47. They did NOT get a bid because their SOS was 175th.

You HAVE to play someone....and ideally you HAVE to beat someone.

That's what is so frustrating about this year's hoop schedule. We might have an at-large worthy roster....but that schedule totally jams Ohio up. No way they get an at-large with that schedule.

Jim Christian had his faults...but I will say this (and honestly it might be more of a pat on the back to Groce if he set up schedule before he bolted)....but the year after Ohio's Sweet 16 run, the Cats played AT Memphis, AT Oklahoma, AT UMass, AT Robert Morris, AT Belmont...and had home games with Oakland, Richmond and St. Bonnie. All were Top 100 except RMU, SBU & Oakland who were all Top 200. That's an at-large worthy schedule if they had taken care of some business.

Instead they went 0-5 in those road games and that killed any chance they had before they started in the MAC where they went 15-1 (Belmont was BracketBuster mid-season)

Bingo!!!!
mail
person
cbus cat fan
10/26/2016 8:05 PM
Billy

Having coached a fair amount and knowing those who still do, the idea that youth participation football hasn't dropped a great deal is more than a little ridiculous. In the fast growing Columbus area there is a huge drop. Go to the rural areas of Ohio where I grew up and once proud high school football programs are a shell of themselves, some are even struggling to field a team.

Ohio 69

As far as high school sports, my fear is some day we would follow the European model where there really is no high school teams only club teams which really would change sports culture in this country, especially in rural areas.
mail
person
Mark Lembright '85
10/26/2016 8:33 PM
What HAS dropped are TV ratings and if that continues at its current pace, that does not portend well for football.
mail
person
cbus cat fan
10/26/2016 9:14 PM
Excellent point Mark. Some of it has to do with the NFL trying to be politically correct, the other has to do with busy families and millennials who don't seem to watch sports for as longer duration as previous age groups. It hit me the other night when an NFL game was on CBS for a Thursday night and the National League Championship series was on Fox Sports 1, a cable channel that not all cable customers have yet to be have added on their cable line-ups. In addition, the NFL is experiencing the biggest one season decline since they began to measure ratings.

Lots of changes going on and many are still trying to figure it out. Recently there was a symposium put together by sports retailers asking why the drop in participation in high school sports. A local guy who does a lot of sports camps was invited and he told me there are no easy answers, but a lot of it has to do with kids burning themselves out with summer camps and traveling teams. He also told me that the concussion fear can't be underestimated, lots of kids and their mothers in particular are scared off by it.

In addition, many kids are probably realistic about their chances of ever playing college sports, unlike some of us who probably thought we were going to be stars. It was fun to dream but each generation of kids is a little different, I guess.
Showing Messages: 1 - 25 of 31
reply
vertical_align_top
vertical_align_center
vertical_align_bottom
add_comment
chevron_forward
MAC News Links



extra small (< 576px)
small (>= 576px)
medium (>= 768px)
large (>= 992px)
x-large (>= 1200px)
xx-large (>= 1400px)