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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: MAC attendance-through 10/27/16
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Recovering Journalist
10/20/2016 9:39 AM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Same is true of Reds, clearly one of the worse teams in baseball. They beat the Tribe by 4000 per game.
The mediocrity part? Yes. But they have no basketball team competing for the same small pool of entertainment dollars, they're still basking in the novelty of a newer park, and they suffer from fewer of the issues raised in the linked article.
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OU_Country
10/20/2016 12:10 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
The Indians are in the World Series, played well enough to be in the post season and had lousy attendance during the year. Sure they'll have better attendance during the post season. There seems to be no correlation between playing great baseball and good attendance in your example. We're having great attendance and playing mediocre. I don't get it.

I don't get it either. All the while, Cleveland sports likes to say it has the "best fans", which is such a silly thing to say. Fans across the country are the best fans when they win more than they lose. End of story.
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Monroe Slavin
10/20/2016 8:55 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
The Indians are in the World Series, played well enough to be in the post season and had lousy attendance during the year. Sure they'll have better attendance during the post season. There seems to be no correlation between playing great baseball and good attendance in your example. We're having great attendance and playing mediocre. I don't get it.
People make this point nationally a lot about the Indians, and it betrays a lack of understanding of the real situation. The short version is that baseball attendance is heavily reliant on season ticket sales, and the Indians decimated their season ticket base with almost 10 years of mediocre play that was punctuated by salary dumps of two Cy Young winners and other stars. Why would a fan run out to buy season tickets for that team? They'll do much better next year due to a bump they're already getting from playoff tickets being sold in conjunction with season ticket plans. For these and more reasons the Indians struggle at the gate, this is a great article. http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/2013/05/the-cleveland-indi... /
Maybe. And I don't know the economics of who The Tribe has signed to affordable long-term contracts and who will be up for free agency (hello Mike Napoli). But that article is from 2013 when the team wasn't that deep or good no matter how well (9wins in 10 games) it was doing when the article was writed.

But this team is loaded. Doing it without Michael Brantley, Salazar, and Carrasco. And Bauer couldn't go one game.

This team is built.


And, as I pointed out many, many months ago, Francona can manage.
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Pataskala
10/29/2016 12:53 PM
Anyone who complains about how the MAC's image isn't helped by small Nov. crowds for midweek games should check out Kent-CMU on CBSSN right now. The stands on the far side are about 20% full and the end zone seats are empty. It's a nice day in Mt. P and it's a game they should win. But it still looks like a nearly-empty stadium. Weekend games this time of year aren't any better for the MAC's image.
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colobobcat66
11/1/2016 7:17 PM
UPDATED THROUGH 10/27/16
WMU-23,174 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
OHIO-23,000 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
TOLEDO-21,388 (5 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
CMU-19,165 (5 GAMES) 1 TO PLAY
MIAMI-18,640 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BUFFALO-17,902 (5 GAMES) 1 TO PLAY
EMU-17,281 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BG-16,801 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
KENT-14,100 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
NIU-12,576 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
AKRON-12,214 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BALL STATE-9,630 ( 3 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY

Looks like it's coming down to us and WMU for top honors attendance wise.
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Bcat2
11/2/2016 2:40 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
UPDATED THROUGH 10/27/16
WMU-23,174 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
OHIO-23,000 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
TOLEDO-21,388 (5 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
CMU-19,165 (5 GAMES) 1 TO PLAY
MIAMI-18,640 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BUFFALO-17,902 (5 GAMES) 1 TO PLAY
EMU-17,281 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BG-16,801 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
KENT-14,100 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
NIU-12,576 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
AKRON-12,214 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BALL STATE-9,630 ( 3 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY

Looks like it's coming down to us and WMU for top honors attendance wise.
How can that be? To read Monroe, there is absolutely no support for Solich football.
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bshot44
11/2/2016 2:51 PM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Anyone who complains about how the MAC's image isn't helped by small Nov. crowds for midweek games should check out Kent-CMU on CBSSN right now. The stands on the far side are about 20% full and the end zone seats are empty. It's a nice day in Mt. P and it's a game they should win. But it still looks like a nearly-empty stadium. Weekend games this time of year aren't any better for the MAC's image.
For teams that don't typically have support....it doesn't matter what day the game is played.

But for school's like Ohio, where they typically get decent crowds on the weekend....weeknight games hurt.

Maybe I'm being selfish because I live 1.5 hours away...but it's tough to get to weeknight games and enjoy them as a college football game is meant to be enjoyed. (i.e. a nice 3+ hr tailgate on a Saturday afternoon)

There's no way I can make it to UB game for a 6pm kick (which sucks)...but I'll be there for Akron. I just hope there are more than 2000 more along with me.

You can't argue that if Ohio got two more Saturday games, they wouldn't draw more than a random Tuesday or Thursday night?

I hate midweek MACtion...I think it's run it's course. But I also understand from a financial and marketing standpoint why the MAC does it.

As I've said for years, I just hate that it's at the expense of the school's fanbase....especially those that have to travel from 1+ hours away for a game.
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colobobcat66
11/2/2016 3:15 PM
Ball State had 5,614 and NIU had 4,790 last night.
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OU_Country
11/2/2016 3:20 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Ball State had 5,614 and NIU had 4,790 last night.
Every time I see NIU attendance numbers, I chuckle about their perceived need to expand their stadium. A need that doesn't seem to be reality.
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Recovering Journalist
11/2/2016 3:25 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Ball State had 5,614 and NIU had 4,790 last night.
Every time I see NIU attendance numbers, I chuckle about their perceived need to expand their stadium. A need that doesn't seem to be reality.
A lot of our fanbase is equally guilty.
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Recovering Journalist
11/2/2016 3:52 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
UPDATED THROUGH 10/27/16
WMU-23,174 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
OHIO-23,000 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
TOLEDO-21,388 (5 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
CMU-19,165 (5 GAMES) 1 TO PLAY
MIAMI-18,640 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BUFFALO-17,902 (5 GAMES) 1 TO PLAY
EMU-17,281 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BG-16,801 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
KENT-14,100 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
NIU-12,576 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
AKRON-12,214 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BALL STATE-9,630 ( 3 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY

Looks like it's coming down to us and WMU for top honors attendance wise.
Western's number is far more impressive since they count butts and not just tickets sold.
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OU_Country
11/2/2016 4:35 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Ball State had 5,614 and NIU had 4,790 last night.
Every time I see NIU attendance numbers, I chuckle about their perceived need to expand their stadium. A need that doesn't seem to be reality.
A lot of our fanbase is equally guilty.
True, but I thought I had read that at NIU the athletic department was talking about stadium expansion, whereas here, I think we have some fans talking stadium expansion. Maybe I'm mistaken. Regardless, big stadiums are a thing of the past in a lot of places. Instead, I'd hope that the focus would be on better stadiums, finding ways to maximize revenue within the current capacity and footprint.
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colobobcat66
11/2/2016 4:39 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
UPDATED THROUGH 10/27/16
WMU-23,174 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
OHIO-23,000 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
TOLEDO-21,388 (5 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
CMU-19,165 (5 GAMES) 1 TO PLAY
MIAMI-18,640 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BUFFALO-17,902 (5 GAMES) 1 TO PLAY
EMU-17,281 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BG-16,801 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
KENT-14,100 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
NIU-12,576 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
AKRON-12,214 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BALL STATE-9,630 ( 3 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY

Looks like it's coming down to us and WMU for top honors attendance wise.
Western's number is far more impressive since they count butts and not just tickets sold.

Don't think it would make all that much difference so far, but it's about to. We've had good crowds so far.

I didn't know anybody counted actual butts. Anybody else you know that does it that way? Obviously the NCAA doesn't because they use our numbers.
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DelBobcat
11/3/2016 9:13 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
UPDATED THROUGH 10/27/16
WMU-23,174 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
OHIO-23,000 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
TOLEDO-21,388 (5 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
CMU-19,165 (5 GAMES) 1 TO PLAY
MIAMI-18,640 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BUFFALO-17,902 (5 GAMES) 1 TO PLAY
EMU-17,281 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BG-16,801 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
KENT-14,100 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
NIU-12,576 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
AKRON-12,214 (4 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY
BALL STATE-9,630 ( 3 GAMES) 2 TO PLAY

Looks like it's coming down to us and WMU for top honors attendance wise.
Western's number is far more impressive since they count butts and not just tickets sold.
Proof? Or are you guessing?
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L.C.
11/3/2016 9:44 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Ball State had 5,614 and NIU had 4,790 last night.
Every time I see NIU attendance numbers, I chuckle about their perceived need to expand their stadium. A need that doesn't seem to be reality.

When I see it I think about the notion that winning MAC Championships automatically increases fan support. I also think about the kudos that people on here have given to NIU on multiple occasions for things done by their athletic department. Anyone remember these:
1. NIU hosting games at Soldier Field against Big 10 schools
2. NIU announcing its future schedules by announcing a foe a day, and talking about how full of big names their schedule would be
3. NIU having a "design the field" contest where they showed six potential field designs for their new field turf, then each day dropping one of them out until they arrived at the final design.
4. NIU making a play to get into the Big 12.

After 5 games they now average 10,729. I don't claim to know what is wrong, but something clearly is very wrong.
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colobobcat66
11/3/2016 9:48 AM
Akron with 6,559 last night. I'll give them a pass because of a certain big game up the road.
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OhioCatFan
11/3/2016 11:19 AM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Akron with 6,559 last night. I'll give them a pass because of a certain big game up the road.
;-)
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OUBob
11/3/2016 1:01 PM
No way in H-E double hockey sticks are Miami and EMU averaging 18.5 and 17K.

Weekday MACtion? What do you want, national visibility, or visibility only from inside Peden? Are the 10k butts worth more than the 100k eyes? No.
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L.C.
11/3/2016 1:23 PM
OUBob wrote:expand_more
No way in H-E double hockey sticks are Miami and EMU averaging 18.5 and 17K.

Weekday MACtion? What do you want, national visibility, or visibility only from inside Peden? Are the 10k butts worth more than the 100k eyes? No.

I don't know about Miami, but every other year or so, EMU "sells" some large amount of tickets, say 10k tickets a game, to Pepsi as a part of their beverage agreement. What Pepsi does with the tickets I don't know, but including those in tickets sold allows EMU to report attendance over the NCAA minimum of 15k. Here is their reported attendance by year:

EMU Attendance
2009 5,016
2010 15,885
2011 4,267
2012 3,923
2013 4,051
2014 15,025
2015 4,897
2016 17,281 (after 2 mid-week games, will probably be just over 15k)

It's not to hard to pick out the years where they "sold" tickets to Pepsi.
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Robert Fox
11/3/2016 1:40 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
No way in H-E double hockey sticks are Miami and EMU averaging 18.5 and 17K.

Weekday MACtion? What do you want, national visibility, or visibility only from inside Peden? Are the 10k butts worth more than the 100k eyes? No.

I don't know about Miami, but every other year or so, EMU "sells" some large amount of tickets, say 10k tickets a game, to Pepsi as a part of their beverage agreement. What Pepsi does with the tickets I don't know, but including those in tickets sold allows EMU to report attendance over the NCAA minimum of 15k. Here is their reported attendance by year:

EMU Attendance
2009 5,016
2010 15,885
2011 4,267
2012 3,923
2013 4,051
2014 15,025
2015 4,897
2016 17,281 (after 2 mid-week games, will probably be just over 15k)

It's not to hard to pick out the years where they "sold" tickets to Pepsi.
Which for me begs the question: So what? If Pepsi is willing to fork over the dough to keep EMU attendance over the threshold, what's the injury?
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L.C.
11/3/2016 2:29 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Which for me begs the question: So what? If Pepsi is willing to fork over the dough to keep EMU attendance over the threshold, what's the injury?

I agree with the "so what" part, but I don't think Pepsi is actually forking over much, if any, dough. I suspect that this is a bookeeping entry, where in some years instead of booking the money from Pepsi as "beverage revenue" they call it "ticket revenue". Now, maybe EMU actually prints tickets, and gives them to Pepsi, and Pepsi in turn actually gives them out somehow (maybe "Free college football ticket with every sixpack"?)

However they do it, does the NCAA minimum of 15,000 really mean anything, since it can be avoided so easily?
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bshot44
11/3/2016 2:42 PM
OUBob wrote:expand_more
No way in H-E double hockey sticks are Miami and EMU averaging 18.5 and 17K.

Weekday MACtion? What do you want, national visibility, or visibility only from inside Peden? Are the 10k butts worth more than the 100k eyes? No.
This day in age, MAC doesn't need to play on weeknights to get exposure....especially the better teams.

Ohio was on national TV vs. Texas State.

There are at least two national TV MAC games every Saturday.

So yes....selfishly, as a season-ticket holder, I'd rather have a Saturday game.

If Ohio is good....they'll be on national TV (CBSN, ASN, etc.)

Miami, Kent, EMU all are not good....so no national TV for you unless you want to play midweek....which shouldn't matter cause their attendance is awful no matter what.

The only reason MAC plays midweek games is cause ESPN back up a Brinks truck and dumps a ton of cash at them.

MAC should stand up and demand that some of their marquee teams in November play on Saturday....and on national TV.

No reason CBSN or ASN wouldn't televise nationally ranked WMU or Toledo or NIU or even Ohio on a Saturday in November.

I understand ESPN won't because of their other conference affiliations.

One home game in November on a weeknight is fine. But for both of them to be selfishly sucks.
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Robert Fox
11/3/2016 3:23 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
I suspect that this is a bookeeping entry, where in some years instead of booking the money from Pepsi as "beverage revenue" they call it "ticket revenue". Now, maybe EMU actually prints tickets, and gives them to Pepsi, and Pepsi in turn actually gives them out somehow (maybe "Free college football ticket with every sixpack"?)

However they do it, does the NCAA minimum of 15,000 really mean anything, since it can be avoided so easily?
That's an interesting thought. If true, I agree it's a sham. However, if anything this illustrates how lackluster the NCAA is about their attendance requirement. A scheme like you describe should be easily discovered, so if it's happening, the NCAA is making zero effort to punish it.
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bshot44
11/3/2016 4:23 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
I suspect that this is a bookeeping entry, where in some years instead of booking the money from Pepsi as "beverage revenue" they call it "ticket revenue". Now, maybe EMU actually prints tickets, and gives them to Pepsi, and Pepsi in turn actually gives them out somehow (maybe "Free college football ticket with every sixpack"?)

However they do it, does the NCAA minimum of 15,000 really mean anything, since it can be avoided so easily?
That's an interesting thought. If true, I agree it's a sham. However, if anything this illustrates how lackluster the NCAA is about their attendance requirement. A scheme like you describe should be easily discovered, so if it's happening, the NCAA is making zero effort to punish it.
Let's not kid ourselves. I'm not saying Ohio pads their attendance as much as maybe EMU...but there is no way our attendance figures are totally honest.

Here are the five biggest crowds in Peden history (all Ohio wins ironically):

1 September 8, 2012 25,893 Ohio 51 - New Mexico State 24
2 October 13, 2012 25,542 Ohio 34 - Akron 28
3 September 20, 2014 25,211 Ohio 36 - Idaho 24
4 September 12, 2015 25,210 Ohio 21 - Marshall 10
5 October 10, 2015 25,086 Ohio 34 - Miami 3

I was at #3, #4 & #5...watched #1 & #2 on TV. So I'm confident to say I know what the stands looked like for those games (and the hillside behind the endzone)

There is no way that our crowds this year vs. BG (23,077), G-W (22,265) & EMU (23,566) were all entirely accurate. There were plenty of good seats available for those three games in the endzone and on the hillside (as well as the sideline stands). I think we count a lot of "tickets sold" into our attendance figures too.

That will be evident tonight I'm sure vs. UB. Can't imagine there will be truly 12k+ for this one in reality. But I'm sure they'll claim 18k+
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Monroe Slavin
11/3/2016 4:27 PM
So, when teams report attendance, there's no info about the assumptions or methodology?

If so, there's really not much that can be done in the way of comparison.


Even if the methodology was standardized, accounting for differences in weather, population within so many miles, team record in a given year, team record for the past few years, etc would make the comparison difficult!
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