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Topic: What does success look like?
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Athens
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Posted: 11/28/2016 10:52 PM
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88 wins in 12 seasons. I have my calculator out and that is 7.3 wins a year. Ohio is playing in the ACC the past 12 seasons I'd say that is a success. Ohio is playing in the MAC East in a division with BG, Kent, Buffalo, Fiami and Roo'. Its not a situation where we have BYU, TCU and Utah in our division and its an automatic 3 losses as it was in the Mountain West. BG is often pretty good but after them its second tier G5 programs. With the Ohio schedules 10 wins a year is doing a great job. I'd even take 9.5 wins a year with a few big seasons and MACCs mixed in. Solich is doing okay but I can't say its great. Not with an offense that's averaged in the bottom 1/3 of FBS in the 12 years he's been here.
allen
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Posted: 11/28/2016 11:30 PM
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Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
88 wins in 12 seasons. I have my calculator out and that is 7.3 wins a year. Ohio is playing in the ACC the past 12 seasons I'd say that is a success. Ohio is playing in the MAC East in a division with BG, Kent, Buffalo, Fiami and Roo'. Its not a situation where we have BYU, TCU and Utah in our division and its an automatic 3 losses as it was in the Mountain West. BG is often pretty good but after them its second tier G5 programs. With the Ohio schedules 10 wins a year is doing a great job. I'd even take 9.5 wins a year with a few big seasons and MACCs mixed in. Solich is doing okay but I can't say its great. Not with an offense that's averaged in the bottom 1/3 of FBS in the 12 years he's been here.

Success is when you win championships, not when you create moral victories. We may be the only team outside of Kent in the East that has not won a MAC championship in the last 12 years and our 5-14 record agaist MAC teams with winning records kills any chance of a moral victory here. We have been respectable and that is it.
Bcat2
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Posted: 11/29/2016 7:26 AM
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Breaking News.

Wes, "Solich is doing okay."

allen, "We (Ohio) have been respectable."
Last Edited: 11/29/2016 7:27:34 AM by Bcat2
allen
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Posted: 11/29/2016 9:05 AM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Breaking News.

Wes, "Solich is doing okay."

allen, "We (Ohio) have been respectable."
Solich has done a great job this year. We still need to make some improvements, but it seems like FS is not settling for less.
doubledribble
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Posted: 11/29/2016 10:06 AM
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Ohio Stunter, your summary is an eye opener as some people continue to rain on any parade that celebrates any success of our solid football program. The excitement in that locker room last week with our kids cheering "two more wins, two more wins" was awesome as everyone was looking ahead to the next goals on the list. Rod McDavis gave one of the best post game, locker room talks I have ever heard from him, and he has given some good ones in the past 11 years! It was a great scene. Go Bobcats!
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Posted: 11/29/2016 1:20 PM
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Morris Mound wrote:expand_more
My exhaustive, well-thought out original post has now devolved into the same old pointless flamewar about MAC Championships...
Which is further proof that despite endless posts and exchanges, there is no single definition of "success."

Your list (with addition from Sparrow) is excellent. Folks have different priorities (or hierarchies), but that does not make one's take right or another's wrong. Success, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

The most relevant "eye" is Schaus - who appears to like what he has been seeing. The most important "eyes" are the current players. Who certainly have achieved a great deal of success....and have their eyes on more.
Bcat2
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Posted: 11/29/2016 1:25 PM
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cc-cat wrote:expand_more
My exhaustive, well-thought out original post has now devolved into the same old pointless flamewar about MAC Championships...
Which is further proof that despite endless posts and exchanges, there is no single definition of "success."

Your list (with addition from Sparrow) is excellent. Folks have different priorities (or hierarchies), but that does not make one's take right or another's wrong. Success, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

The most relevant "eye" is Schaus - who appears to like what he has been seeing. The most important "eyes" are the current players. Who certainly have achieved a great deal of success....and have their eyes on more.
Post of the Year. Thank You.
Morris Mound
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Posted: 11/29/2016 2:25 PM
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cc-cat, your'e right. Success in this sport is shockingly subjective. Why I love it so much.
OhioStunter
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Posted: 11/29/2016 3:08 PM
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I wonder what our old pal Kirby Hocutt and the rest of the selection committee think success looks like.
mf279801
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Posted: 11/29/2016 4:00 PM
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OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
I wonder what our old pal Kirby Hocutt and the rest of the selection committee think success looks like.
$$$$$$$$
bshot44
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Posted: 11/29/2016 7:50 PM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I'm always a fan of the measurables, and the lead post had as many as I could come up, probably more. A more subjective plank in the "measure of success" platform would be; How many MAC programs would change places with us? Similar schools, geographic proximity, not too out of whack on the funding side (of course, there are outliers), similar academic interests. I'd bet almost every other MAC school would take what we have over what they're currently producing. Western would argue that they wouldn't, but that's this year talking. They were 1-11 a few short years ago and MAC history shows us their short term future bodes more strongly for a return to those days than to maintain where they currently sit (assuming Fleck abandons the boat, that is).
I would use the same analogy for BG. They've recently been the class of the MAC East and had a really bad year. But they have out-classed Ohio by leaps and bounds the previous four years.

Toledo probably wouldn't trade us either. They've been on the doorstep of national relevance for years...just haven't got over the hump in the West vs. NIU or WMU.

And I'm guessing NIU is pretty happy with themselves. They also had a bad year and struggled the back half of last year....but their program is on pretty solid ground I'd say.

The only programs who are unquestionably behind Ohio are Akron, Kent, UB, Miami, EMU and Ball State I'd say.

That keeps Ohio in the top half....which is nice. But I agree with a lot of others on this thread that say I'd like to be a dominant Top 2 in this league year-after-year. We can't say that.

We're top half....and every few years contend for a top 2-3 spot.

I expected more with the longest tenured coaching staff in the MAC by a lot.

I've said it a thousand times...we're peaking in 2011-2012....but since have taken a step back. The back half of last year and this year have showed flashes of improvement...but we are still a long way from being the dominant program in this league.

We might find that out the hard way on Friday......but that's why they play the games.
B44. He wants the "dominant program in this league." Nothing short of the "dominant program in this league," is success. Well, by wins since 2006 Ohio is the second following NIU. Fourth appearance in the MACC in 12 seasons, not too shabby, again second to NIU over that period. Eighth year bowl eligible, no big deal, well, where are NIU & BG bowling this year?
You continue to SUCCESSFULLY defend your title as THE WORST on this message board.

Where did I say "Nothing short of the "dominant program in this league," is success."

Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
My exhaustive, well-thought out original post has now devolved into the same old pointless flamewar about MAC Championships...
Which is further proof that despite endless posts and exchanges, there is no single definition of "success."

Your list (with addition from Sparrow) is excellent. Folks have different priorities (or hierarchies), but that does not make one's take right or another's wrong. Success, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

The most relevant "eye" is Schaus - who appears to like what he has been seeing. The most important "eyes" are the current players. Who certainly have achieved a great deal of success....and have their eyes on more.
Post of the Year. Thank You.
Why would you post that then turn around and question or rip me, Monroe, Allen or others for their vision of success.

I've said it a million times. If you're happy with 7-8 win seasons and occasional MACC game appearances... Good for you!

Keep being you.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/29/2016 11:01 PM
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bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I'm always a fan of the measurables, and the lead post had as many as I could come up, probably more. A more subjective plank in the "measure of success" platform would be; How many MAC programs would change places with us? Similar schools, geographic proximity, not too out of whack on the funding side (of course, there are outliers), similar academic interests. I'd bet almost every other MAC school would take what we have over what they're currently producing. Western would argue that they wouldn't, but that's this year talking. They were 1-11 a few short years ago and MAC history shows us their short term future bodes more strongly for a return to those days than to maintain where they currently sit (assuming Fleck abandons the boat, that is).
I would use the same analogy for BG. They've recently been the class of the MAC East and had a really bad year. But they have out-classed Ohio by leaps and bounds the previous four years.

Toledo probably wouldn't trade us either. They've been on the doorstep of national relevance for years...just haven't got over the hump in the West vs. NIU or WMU.

And I'm guessing NIU is pretty happy with themselves. They also had a bad year and struggled the back half of last year....but their program is on pretty solid ground I'd say.

The only programs who are unquestionably behind Ohio are Akron, Kent, UB, Miami, EMU and Ball State I'd say.

That keeps Ohio in the top half....which is nice. But I agree with a lot of others on this thread that say I'd like to be a dominant Top 2 in this league year-after-year. We can't say that.

We're top half....and every few years contend for a top 2-3 spot.

I expected more with the longest tenured coaching staff in the MAC by a lot.

I've said it a thousand times...we're peaking in 2011-2012....but since have taken a step back. The back half of last year and this year have showed flashes of improvement...but we are still a long way from being the dominant program in this league.

We might find that out the hard way on Friday......but that's why they play the games.
B44. He wants the "dominant program in this league." Nothing short of the "dominant program in this league," is success. Well, by wins since 2006 Ohio is the second following NIU. Fourth appearance in the MACC in 12 seasons, not too shabby, again second to NIU over that period. Eighth year bowl eligible, no big deal, well, where are NIU & BG bowling this year?
You continue to SUCCESSFULLY defend your title as THE WORST on this message board.

Where did I say "Nothing short of the "dominant program in this league," is success."

My exhaustive, well-thought out original post has now devolved into the same old pointless flamewar about MAC Championships...
Which is further proof that despite endless posts and exchanges, there is no single definition of "success."

Your list (with addition from Sparrow) is excellent. Folks have different priorities (or hierarchies), but that does not make one's take right or another's wrong. Success, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

The most relevant "eye" is Schaus - who appears to like what he has been seeing. The most important "eyes" are the current players. Who certainly have achieved a great deal of success....and have their eyes on more.
Post of the Year. Thank You.
Why would you post that then turn around and question or rip me, Monroe, Allen or others for their vision of success.

I've said it a million times. If you're happy with 7-8 win seasons and occasional MACC game appearances... Good for you!

Keep being you.

Wow--you ended with a stinger, 44!
giacomo
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Posted: 11/30/2016 1:19 PM
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This thread brings to mind the great wordplay in "Casablanca":

Peter Lorre: "Rick, you despise me, don't you?"

Humphrey Bogart: "I suppose if I ever gave you any thought, I would."
Last Edited: 11/30/2016 1:20:05 PM by giacomo
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