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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win
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Jeff McKinney
1/10/2017 12:45 AM
I was glad to see Clemson win the game, but I have questions about the two TD passes that had apparent pick elements. For those of you who understand the rules better than I do, why were those passes not penalized as picks?

Great game!
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C Money
1/10/2017 12:47 AM
It's a pure judgment call by the ref. Is the WR blocking downfield, or did the DB impede his route? The Clemson WRs did a good job selling that they were running routes, not blocking.
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allen
1/10/2017 12:50 AM
If the receiver does not initiate contact, there is no penalty. I love Swinney's quotes on servant leadership.https://learnloftblog.com/2016/06/30/3-brilliant-leadersh... /
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BuddyLee
1/10/2017 12:57 AM
Was there contact with intent. Those were on the edge but clean plays.
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allen
1/10/2017 1:04 AM
I think there should have been a penalty on the last one.
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Monroe Slavin
1/10/2017 1:38 AM
Apart from that, the game made Sam Darnold stand out all the more for me.

Deshaun Watson is a fine athlete and he may turn out to be a fine NFL qb.

But I'll take Darnold's vision, calm, arm, etc in a heartbeat.
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ExCat21
1/10/2017 1:41 AM
The first pick play is legal by #16 Leggett bcuz he flashes his hands and shows his number to the QB for the pass. The 2nd pick play is illegal. He initiates contact, dives into the legs of a defender going back towards the field of pla. Thats a 15 yrd OPI penalty. And for the ones saying he is blocking he cant block downfield while ball is in air. Great game but missed call
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allen
1/10/2017 1:43 AM
ExCat21 wrote:expand_more
The first pick play is legal by #16 Leggett bcuz he flashes his hands and shows his number to the QB for the pass. The 2nd pick play is illegal. He initiates contact, dives into the legs of a defender going back towards the field of pla. Thats a 15 yrd OPI penalty. And for the ones saying he is blocking he cant block downfield while ball is in air. Great game but missed call
+1
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RSBobcat
1/10/2017 1:45 AM
allen wrote:expand_more
The first pick play is legal by #16 Leggett bcuz he flashes his hands and shows his number to the QB for the pass. The 2nd pick play is illegal. He initiates contact, dives into the legs of a defender going back towards the field of pla. Thats a 15 yrd OPI penalty. And for the ones saying he is blocking he cant block downfield while ball is in air. Great game but missed call
+1
Even better because they would have had one more play even if it was called......
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C Money
1/10/2017 9:11 AM
ExCat21 wrote:expand_more
The first pick play is legal by #16 Leggett bcuz he flashes his hands and shows his number to the QB for the pass. The 2nd pick play is illegal. He initiates contact, dives into the legs of a defender going back towards the field of pla. Thats a 15 yrd OPI penalty. And for the ones saying he is blocking he cant block downfield while ball is in air. Great game but missed call

The best argument I've seen as to why the second wasn't PI was that the defender initiated the contact around the shoulder pads, and the WR "fell" into his legs as a result. We all know that's not what really happened, but the WR sold it well.

The refs were allowing physical play all night. I'm OK with the non-call there, although I would agree that by the letter of the law it is PI.
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Ted Thompson
1/10/2017 3:09 PM
On the PI they said that happened in the end zone, it actually happened at the one. That's also where the flag was thrown. So my question is, since it happened on the one, should the ball have been spotted at the one? I am assuming it's a spot foul in that case and therefore not half the distance from the 9.
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OhioStunter
1/10/2017 4:25 PM
Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
On the PI they said that happened in the end zone, it actually happened at the one. That's also where the flag was thrown. So my question is, since it happened on the one, should the ball have been spotted at the one? I am assuming it's a spot foul in that case and therefore not half the distance from the 9.
I can't honestly read this post while looking at your avatar.
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BillyTheCat
1/10/2017 6:06 PM
Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
On the PI they said that happened in the end zone, it actually happened at the one. That's also where the flag was thrown. So my question is, since it happened on the one, should the ball have been spotted at the one? I am assuming it's a spot foul in that case and therefore not half the distance from the 9.
Inside the 17yd line this becomes an automatic spot foul and should be placed where the foul occurred unless in the end zone.
Last Edited: 1/10/2017 6:08:01 PM by BillyTheCat
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Ted Thompson
1/10/2017 9:53 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
On the PI they said that happened in the end zone, it actually happened at the one. That's also where the flag was thrown. So my question is, since it happened on the one, should the ball have been spotted at the one? I am assuming it's a spot foul in that case and therefore not half the distance from the 9.
Inside the 17yd line this becomes an automatic spot foul and should be placed where the foul occurred unless in the end zone.
Thanks. Not a big deal as they got the ball at the two instead of the one. But had Clemson not converted, I could see a lot of scrutiny on that call.
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ExCat21
1/11/2017 9:33 AM
I spoke with 2 collegiate refs and they stated it shouldve been called. Basically they said they look for the outside receiver doing the "pick" and he has to make an attempt to not contact the player being picked. I believe on Leggetts pick the two defenders ran into themselves. The second pick play, receiver initiated contact. So it should have been 1st and 17 with 1 second left. Clemson wouldve kicked a FG and mostly likely there wouldve went into overtime.
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OhioCatFan
1/11/2017 10:57 AM
ExCat, are we looking at the swallow-your-whistle-in-the-last-minute phenomenon here? I've seen this so many times in basketball and football, and I've heard announcers praise it by saying things like, "They're letting them play here at the end. Don't want to decide this game with a whistle. That's the way it should be." To me this is total nonsense. If it's an infraction n the first minute of play, it's an infraction in the last minute.
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ExCat21
1/11/2017 1:52 PM
Yes we are. Which i sorta commend for letting players play however the two pick plays were so different that it shouldve been called.
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BillyTheCat
1/11/2017 8:19 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
ExCat, are we looking at the swallow-your-whistle-in-the-last-minute phenomenon here? I've seen this so many times in basketball and football, and I've heard announcers praise it by saying things like, "They're letting them play here at the end. Don't want to decide this game with a whistle. That's the way it should be." To me this is total nonsense. If it's an infraction n the first minute of play, it's an infraction in the last minute.

Funny in 2002 on the old board you weren't saying that about the National Title Game.
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OhioCatFan
1/11/2017 10:55 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
ExCat, are we looking at the swallow-your-whistle-in-the-last-minute phenomenon here? I've seen this so many times in basketball and football, and I've heard announcers praise it by saying things like, "They're letting them play here at the end. Don't want to decide this game with a whistle. That's the way it should be." To me this is total nonsense. If it's an infraction n the first minute of play, it's an infraction in the last minute.

Funny in 2002 on the old board you weren't saying that about the National Title Game.
I challenge your memory. What did I say in 2002? I can assure you that I didn't question any penalties on Miami (FL) on the basis of "just let 'em play" at end of regulation and OT and forget the rules. I might have thought there was a bad call, but that's a different matter. Sometimes I get the impression you just like to be ornery.

BTW, Steve Hayes says he doesn't remember you.
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rpbobcat
1/12/2017 6:56 AM
The issue of the "pick" is still being debated on the radio sports stations out here.

One thing that all the pundits seem to agree on is that its very difficult to call a penalty for a "pick" on plays when you've you've got a QB rolling out,close to the goal line.
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BillyTheCat
1/12/2017 11:07 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
The issue of the "pick" is still being debated on the radio sports stations out here.

One thing that all the pundits seem to agree on is that its very difficult to call a penalty for a "pick" on plays when you've you've got a QB rolling out,close to the goal line.
And there is some truth to that. Just as culpable though is why in a formation and situation that lends itself to a pick or rub play (because they can very easily be run very effectively and legally) why you are in a pres man coverage.
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