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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: The sleeping giant has awoken in Oxford again
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person
Recovering Journalist
1/16/2017 4:40 PM
It's a nice building and Miami is on a good trajectory for football in the next couple of years.

Long-term? Miami is probably the least sustainable MAC athletics program, and that's saying something. Because they compete in hockey and have a smaller student population, their athletics subsidy is hideously high per student. I'm sure it's gone up since this piece from 2015.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/07/mi...

Miami will always be robbing Peter to pay Paul. They financed hockey by ruining the last 10 years of Miami basketball, and they won't be able to keep football going without screwing something else. Most likely, they'll be unable to consistently sustain success in football -- just like most G5 teams.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
1/16/2017 7:32 PM
OUs LONG Driver wrote:expand_more
And I will say this, my job requires me to know who is up and coming and who is going big on college athletics. Last year I bought a lot of WMU tickets for that reason. This year, I expect to do the same thing at Miami.To see what Miami is doing right now should be putting the MAC on notice due to a bigger commitment to facilities than WMU did to get great. Sure, argue coaching and what not, but it takes someone to realize that you need those facilities to compete for recruits who can make winning easy.

Another thing, I know a lot of these guys at different schools and hear the conversations of who is going to get who or build the next big thing. Hence my canary in the coal mine going off right now
Are you saying you're going to make money buying and selling Miami football tickets in 2017? Are you buying family pack type tickets and reselling for a more normal face value or are you saying that ticket demand will be so high that people are going to pay a premium above face value? I might believe the first scenario (seems like a lot of hustle for very little $) but I definitely am not buying crowds are surging at Yager any time soon.
Yes I am going to resale their tickets. To answer your question, no I will not be getting family packs. It will come down to combinations of tickets I can get (Cincy game, HC, etc.) at a better rate than most would negotiate and utilize the resale market to help. As to the supply and demand, remember, tickets to the state tourney in bball back in 2003 were going for $60 for just an upper deck ticket. I will also have a set of season tickets as well there but the real rub is in consignment deals.
Last Edited: 1/16/2017 7:34:20 PM by Buckeye to Bobcat
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mcbin
1/16/2017 9:59 PM
Wait, are you one of the 3/4 scalper guys we have at Bobcat games now?!

I'm fairly sure one of those guys, the one I see around most frequently, makes better than 1K a game (Saturdays) buying tix for near zero and selling them for somewhere around face. Not bad for 3 hours work.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
1/16/2017 10:26 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Just wait until Miami wins. Im tired of arguing this, especially because we have 5 juco commits at critical positions that are gonna need to start on offense asap. I will be laughing when Miami runs the MAC and Ohio couldnt win a comference title. Now i could write a whole op piece on why Ohio will not win a MAC Championship or be relevant, especially considering our current class is not even half ohio kids. But I will wait for you to tell me these juco kids will solve problems for us. All we need are more issues like Irons and Co. right? Talk to me when OU wins one. We dont have a recruiting territory at all, no coaches with in-state connections, let alone Cbus connections. So like I said, enjoy being second fiddle
who gives a rats ass if they're Ohio kids? Get kids who can play. don't care where they're from.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
1/16/2017 11:47 PM
mcbin wrote:expand_more
Wait, are you one of the 3/4 scalper guys we have at Bobcat games now?!

I'm fairly sure one of those guys, the one I see around most frequently, makes better than 1K a game (Saturdays) buying tix for near zero and selling them for somewhere around face. Not bad for 3 hours work.
Negative, but I know who you're talking about. Nice guys but they don't play in the real realm. They're foot soldiers for bigger brokers. Those guys will be going to Houston after they try to buy tickets at the team box offices in the Super Bowl team's cities.
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Monroe Slavin
1/18/2017 12:44 AM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Back to the topic of the thread (Miami). I hope they are back. Beating them year in year out is not good for a rivalry. That said. One great year and 2 good months over the course of a decade does not mean they have returned. We will see what 2017 brings them.

Next year is a new year but Miami won 6 of their last 7 whereas we lost 3 of our last 4.

I'd not discount Miami's prospects for next year so much. The Miami qb who threw exactly half of their passes, Ragland, (179 of 358) this past season as a sophomore threw 17 tds and only 1 interception according to stats on ESPN.

How high would we be over the coming season if we brought back a seasoned qb who threw 17 tds and only 1 INT?



Their other qbs combined for 10 tds and 6 INTs.


[Aside to OCF, who, apparently, can't figure these things out: 17 tds and only 1 INT is a FACT.]
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OhioCatFan
1/18/2017 12:52 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
. . .

[Aside to OCF, who, apparently, can't figure these things out: 17 tds and only 1 INT is a FACT.]
No crushing losses in 2016 is also a fact -- one that you have not fully comprehended . . . or just conveniently forgotten because it doesn't fit your template.
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Monroe Slavin
1/18/2017 2:52 AM
That's what you're going to hang your hat on? ...after 8-6, worse than the year before despite much All-MAC talent, losing 3 of the last 4 at the key time of the year, now 0-4 in MAC title games and 2-6 in bowls...yeah, all is well because we didn't have three losses by about 30 apiece last season.


And, coming up we lose a lot of talent on the defensive front 7, return nothing special at qb and receiver---not sure that's a recipe for an upcoming big year.


At some point..12 years enough?? ..you have to admit that our coaching isn't getting it done. What 15 years...17...31 ...when ??
Last Edited: 1/18/2017 2:53:05 AM by Monroe Slavin
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OUPride
1/18/2017 11:50 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
It's a nice building and Miami is on a good trajectory for football in the next couple of years.

Long-term? Miami is probably the least sustainable MAC athletics program, and that's saying something. Because they compete in hockey and have a smaller student population, their athletics subsidy is hideously high per student. I'm sure it's gone up since this piece from 2015.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/07/mi...

Miami will always be robbing Peter to pay Paul. They financed hockey by ruining the last 10 years of Miami basketball, and they won't be able to keep football going without screwing something else. Most likely, they'll be unable to consistently sustain success in football -- just like most G5 teams.
Yep. They've gone all in on hockey as their "identity" sport. They pay the hockey coach 500K/year to keep him in Oxford. I don't know what the financial specifics are for hockey, but it has to be losing a @#$%ton of money. With travel costs of the spread out conference it's in, there's no way that an arena that seats less than 3K is paying the bills. They also don't have enough sports left to cut to prop up football long term. Outside of Cincy, Miami's athletic dept is the biggest fiscal house of cards in Ohio.
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Ohio69
1/19/2017 8:26 AM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
Outside of Cincy, Miami's athletic dept is the biggest fiscal house of cards in Ohio.
Not sure this really matters. Miami will win the MAC East next Fall.
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OUPride
1/19/2017 11:41 AM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Outside of Cincy, Miami's athletic dept is the biggest fiscal house of cards in Ohio.
Not sure this really matters. Miami will win the MAC East next Fall.
It means that when a financial bubble is no longer sustainable it usually collapses. UC and Miami will be the first dominoes to fall in Ohio. Yes, they may win the MAC East next year, but in five years, their football/basketball programs may be operating on a significantly lower level, as will all the MAC schools before too long barring some miraculous financial turnaround.
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BillyTheCat
1/19/2017 11:43 AM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
Outside of Cincy, Miami's athletic dept is the biggest fiscal house of cards in Ohio.
Not sure this really matters. Miami will win the MAC East next Fall.
It means that when a financial bubble is no longer sustainable it usually collapses. UC and Miami will be the first dominoes to fall in Ohio. Yes, they may win the MAC East next year, but in five years, their football/basketball programs may be operating on a significantly lower level, as will all the MAC schools before too long barring some miraculous financial turnaround.
UC has tremendous support from large corporations, while at OHIO we rely on student fees as much as anyone in the country. If there is a bubble, we will be sitting on it as well.
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L.C.
1/19/2017 11:58 AM
One could argue that Akron was already first.
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Ohio69
1/19/2017 12:32 PM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
Outside of Cincy, Miami's athletic dept is the biggest fiscal house of cards in Ohio.
Not sure this really matters. Miami will win the MAC East next Fall.
It means that when a financial bubble is no longer sustainable it usually collapses. UC and Miami will be the first dominoes to fall in Ohio. Yes, they may win the MAC East next year, but in five years, their football/basketball programs may be operating on a significantly lower level, as will all the MAC schools before too long barring some miraculous financial turnaround.
I think I understand what your point is. But, I've been hearing this for like 15 years now. So, I'm a bit of a skeptic regarding something happening 5 years from now.
Last Edited: 1/19/2017 12:36:36 PM by Ohio69
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OUPride
1/19/2017 12:54 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Outside of Cincy, Miami's athletic dept is the biggest fiscal house of cards in Ohio.
Not sure this really matters. Miami will win the MAC East next Fall.
It means that when a financial bubble is no longer sustainable it usually collapses. UC and Miami will be the first dominoes to fall in Ohio. Yes, they may win the MAC East next year, but in five years, their football/basketball programs may be operating on a significantly lower level, as will all the MAC schools before too long barring some miraculous financial turnaround.
UC has tremendous support from large corporations, while at OHIO we rely on student fees as much as anyone in the country. If there is a bubble, we will be sitting on it as well.
UC does have some corporate support, but it's not nearly enough. Their athletic budget is among (maybe is) the largest in the G%, and whatever corporate support they have isn't coming close to paying for it. They have, by far, the largest annual subsidy among Ohio FBS schools and are drowning in a cesspool of athletic debt. They have an outstanding debt of $140M on athletic facilities that costs an annual service of over $10M. They spent like a drunken sailor in the hopes that a Big12 invite would arrive and pay the bills. That didn't happen plus, and they are about to see the last bit of exit money that the Big East gave them on the way out the door. They are headed off a cliff.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/07/un...

http://spendingdatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/aac/univ...

Somebody pointed out to me how low Ohio's athletic debt and debt service are, and that may end up being a godsend, as all Ohio would need to do is tighten its belt to lower the subsidy if required to by the state. Cincy's department, with all that debt hanging over its head, would essentially become insolvent if it were required to lower the subsidy.
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OUPride
1/19/2017 12:56 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
One could argue that Akron was already first.
You give Akron way too little credit. Their last President didn't just bankrupt the athletic department. He bankrupted the whole damned university.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
1/19/2017 1:39 PM
Well for Miami, they got $100 million to throw around right now. When ya get a chance for bball go check out their facilities and compare em to ours.
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L.C.
1/19/2017 2:00 PM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
It means that when a financial bubble is no longer sustainable it usually collapses. UC and Miami will be the first dominoes to fall in Ohio. Yes, they may win the MAC East next year, but in five years, their football/basketball programs may be operating on a significantly lower level, as will all the MAC schools before too long barring some miraculous financial turnaround.

Predicting the end of a bubble can be difficult. As Keynes once said, "the market can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent". To put it in perspective, I remember that fifty years ago Nebraska tried to sell bonds to finance a stadium expansion. The bond issuers declined to issue bonds for that due to the fact that demand for tickets was a bubble that could burst at any time.
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Recovering Journalist
1/19/2017 2:16 PM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
One could argue that Akron was already first.
You give Akron way too little credit. Their last President didn't just bankrupt the athletic department. He bankrupted the whole damned university.
Proenza is the one who racked up all the debt. He oversaw the disastrous InfoCision build, new student center, new IPF/track & field house, new rec center, etc. All of that was done on mounds of debt, and when enrollment declined it sent the school into a tailspin. For the record, most universities in Ohio did/are doing the same thing (including Ohio). It's just the losers in the enrollment race that are feeling the pain right now.

If they had InfoCision to do over again, I think Akron would have dropped football, left the MAC for the Horizon, built InfoCision Arena and worked to get an invite to greener pastures like the MVC. It would have made sense. Now they have an albatross of a stadium that gets used a handful of times a year and requires huge debt service payments. It should serve as a dark lesson for any MAC school.
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OUPride
1/19/2017 4:17 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
One could argue that Akron was already first.
You give Akron way too little credit. Their last President didn't just bankrupt the athletic department. He bankrupted the whole damned university.
Proenza is the one who racked up all the debt. He oversaw the disastrous InfoCision build, new student center, new IPF/track & field house, new rec center, etc. All of that was done on mounds of debt, and when enrollment declined it sent the school into a tailspin. For the record, most universities in Ohio did/are doing the same thing (including Ohio). It's just the losers in the enrollment race that are feeling the pain right now.

If they had InfoCision to do over again, I think Akron would have dropped football, left the MAC for the Horizon, built InfoCision Arena and worked to get an invite to greener pastures like the MVC. It would have made sense. Now they have an albatross of a stadium that gets used a handful of times a year and requires huge debt service payments. It should serve as a dark lesson for any MAC school.
You are correct. Proenza is who I meant. Just since his first replacement was there for about a cup of coffee, he slipped my mind.
Last Edited: 1/19/2017 4:43:34 PM by OUPride
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OUPride
1/19/2017 4:20 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Well for Miami, they got $100 million to throw around right now. When ya get a chance for bball go check out their facilities and compare em to ours.
Explain how Fiami has $100M to throw around right now.
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
1/19/2017 4:33 PM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
Well for Miami, they got $100 million to throw around right now. When ya get a chance for bball go check out their facilities and compare em to ours.
Explain how Fiami has $100M to throw around right now.
You didn't hear? The collar tax is going to be abolished.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
1/19/2017 5:43 PM
Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
Well for Miami, they got $100 million to throw around right now. When ya get a chance for bball go check out their facilities and compare em to ours.
Explain how Fiami has $100M to throw around right now.
You didn't hear? The collar tax is going to be abolished.
As I've told you before on Bobcat Attack many times and you dont want to heed my warnings, they have been on a 100 million athletics capital campaign that will include either a new lr renovated bball arena. Heck, they raised a new turf baseball field in two weeks, renovated their hockey weight room Lready, and built the performance facility that was shown as first message. Now, care to wonder why I have been trying to warn you that they're raising a war-chest right now?
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Monroe Slavin
1/19/2017 6:11 PM
For the immediate future, who cares about the budget.

To the point is that they have an experienced qb returning who, in 179 passes thrown in his sophomore year, put up 17 tds and only 1 INT.

If the rest of their team is only MAC average, they have to be considered a favorite.

I always believe (really, I do) that studs at key positions also attract other quality players. An example is San Diego State when Marshall Faulk proved to be a stud.

Not saying Miami's qb is that good, but if you were a receiver or O-lineman...or even a d-lineman, would 17 tds and 1 INT get your attention?
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SBH
1/19/2017 8:01 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
One could argue that Akron was already first.
You give Akron way too little credit. Their last President didn't just bankrupt the athletic department. He bankrupted the whole damned university.
Proenza is the one who racked up all the debt. He oversaw the disastrous InfoCision build, new student center, new IPF/track & field house, new rec center, etc. All of that was done on mounds of debt, and when enrollment declined it sent the school into a tailspin. For the record, most universities in Ohio did/are doing the same thing (including Ohio). It's just the losers in the enrollment race that are feeling the pain right now.

If they had InfoCision to do over again, I think Akron would have dropped football, left the MAC for the Horizon, built InfoCision Arena and worked to get an invite to greener pastures like the MVC. It would have made sense. Now they have an albatross of a stadium that gets used a handful of times a year and requires huge debt service payments. It should serve as a dark lesson for any MAC school.
People said much the same about the Convo and Ohio in the early to mid-1970s. State bailed us out.
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