Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Concerning story from The Post
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L.C.
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Posted: 7/20/2017 8:01 PM
UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
If they misquoted the prosecutor, it's a whole other story. They could be held liable for that, possibly both by the prosecutor and the defendant. Malice is not necessary except for public figures. But, proving that the an incorrect quote caused damage to the person's reputation, especially if it was corrected quickly, still could be difficult.

Then we're all in agreement, except for BTC, who said actual malice was required.

As for the alternate situation, where the prosecutor was quoted correctly, but misspoke, I think we're in agreement, too. In that case I believe it depends on the wording, which is why you said that things needed to be worded correctly. If the article said "The Prosecutor said 'Blah Blah'" with no additional commentary, and the prosecutor actually said that, then the article was factual and accurate, even if what the prosecutor said was incorrect. If they later learn that what the prosecutor said was inaccurate, I still think it's appropriate to retract it.

Per BTC's most recent post, Drake did not plead guilty of theft. That was my conclusion, based on the quick retraction by the News, however it leaves open the question of whether or not the reporter quoted the Prosecutor accurately.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 7/20/2017 8:28 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
If they misquoted the prosecutor, it's a whole other story. They could be held liable for that, possibly both by the prosecutor and the defendant. Malice is not necessary except for public figures. But, proving that the an incorrect quote caused damage to the person's reputation, especially if it was corrected quickly, still could be difficult.

Then we're all in agreement, except for BTC, who said actual malice was required.

As for the alternate situation, where the prosecutor was quoted correctly, but misspoke, I think we're in agreement, too. In that case I believe it depends on the wording, which is why you said that things needed to be worded correctly. If the article said "The Prosecutor said 'Blah Blah'" with no additional commentary, and the prosecutor actually said that, then the article was factual and accurate, even if what the prosecutor said was incorrect. If they later learn that what the prosecutor said was inaccurate, I still think it's appropriate to retract it.

Per BTC's most recent post, Drake did not plead guilty of theft. That was my conclusion, based on the quick retraction by the News, however it leaves open the question of whether or not the reporter quoted the Prosecutor accurately.
I believe we have totally different understandings of what I wrote. We are all on the same page minus OCF. As long as the ANews did NOT make up the story and quoted the Prosecutor (whether or not the prosecutor was correct in his words), then the paper has done nothing wrong. You are correct, their is a legal term "actual malice", but that is NOT what I meant in my wording. I meant simply that if the paper in good faith quoted a public figure on a statement that they then have NOT committed malice. If that was the case, any reporter who is printing Trump comments would be guilty of committing civil crimes daily ;-)
Alan Swank
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Posted: 7/20/2017 8:50 PM
All I want to know is what happened. Just got my basketball season ticket renewal in the mail and I'm being asked to "donate" $900 to have the right to buy four tickets. I, like many of you, simply want to know that my money is being handled in a fiscally responsible manner.
Buckeye to Bobcat
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Posted: 7/20/2017 10:16 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
All I want to know is what happened. Just got my basketball season ticket renewal in the mail and I'm being asked to "donate" $900 to have the right to buy four tickets. I, like many of you, simply want to know that my money is being handled in a fiscally responsible manner.
I don't know, do you still pay your taxes for funds that go to the prosecutor's office? Don't see you raising hell to them just yet.....
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/20/2017 11:14 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
. . . I meant simply that if the paper in good faith quoted a public figure on a statement that they then have NOT committed malice. If that was the case, any reporter who is printing Trump comments would be guilty of committing civil crimes daily ;-)
Trump is clearly a public figure. So is the prosecutor. Drake is probably not. The standards are different. I won't repeat everything I've said previously.
L.C.
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Posted: 7/21/2017 12:10 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I believe we have totally different understandings of what I wrote. We are all on the same page minus OCF. As long as the ANews did NOT make up the story and quoted the Prosecutor (whether or not the prosecutor was correct in his words), then the paper has done nothing wrong. You are correct, their is a legal term "actual malice", but that is NOT what I meant in my wording. I meant simply that if the paper in good faith quoted a public figure on a statement that they then have NOT committed malice. If that was the case, any reporter who is printing Trump comments would be guilty of committing civil crimes daily ;-)

I can accept that said something other than what you meant, and in the process created a great deal of confusion. With that out of the way, it's almost time for fall camp.
rpbobcat
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Posted: 7/21/2017 6:46 AM
Maybe its just me,but each time I read a post about the intricacies of malice concerning the A News I can't stop thinking of the old Paul Newman/Sally Field movie.
SBH
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Posted: 7/21/2017 9:37 AM
Fact that the A-News hasn't changed their story tells me they have no concerns about libel - nor should they if they were given that information by the prosecutor. OCF's analysis aside, you have to knowingly publish false information with malicious intent. And as I recall in the movie, Sally Field's character was hardly a public figure, but that's another wrong element in OCF's argument anyway.
Last Edited: 7/21/2017 10:25:37 AM by SBH
L.C.
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Posted: 7/21/2017 9:58 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Fact that the A-News hasn't changed their story tells me they have no concerns about libel ....

Your post confused me, because the A-News HAS changed their story. Just to be sure they hadn't reinstated the original version, I went back and checked, and no, the story still is the changed version, with no reference to theft, and a correction that he was never arrested:
http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2017/07/drake-bolon-...
SBH
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Posted: 7/21/2017 10:24 AM
Your link is from The Post, not the Athens News. A-News still mentions theft.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/21/2017 10:49 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
. . .you have to knowingly publish false information with malicious intent. . .
That's not the standard under Ohio law for non-public figures.

http://tinyurl.com/6opsc8p

Key Quote:

"Private people who are defamed have more protection than public figures -- freedom of speech isn't as important when the statements don't involve an issue of public interest. A private person who is defamed can prevail without having to prove that the defamer acted with actual malice."
Last Edited: 7/21/2017 11:02:35 AM by OhioCatFan
L.C.
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Posted: 7/21/2017 11:33 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Your link is from The Post, not the Athens News. A-News still mentions theft.

You are correct. My apologies. Here is the correct link:
https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/former-ou-athletic...

I guess we'll see if there are further legal developments. Since Bolon pled guilty to tampering with records, and not to theft, in a civil lawsuit, the News would not be able to rely on his plea to support their assertion that there was theft involved.
SBH
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Posted: 7/21/2017 11:40 AM
A media representative cannot defame a person by accurately quoting a public official. Perhaps the public official (prosecutor) can be found to have defamed him, but not the writer in this case.

Secondly, you'd be hard pressed to prove that the promotions director of a public institution is not a "public" individual.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/21/2017 11:46 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
A media representative cannot defame a person by accurately quoting a public official. Perhaps the public official (prosecutor) can be found to have defamed him, but not the writer in this case.

Secondly, you'd be hard pressed to prove that the promotions director of a public institution is not a "public" individual.
You're wrong about number 1, when the plaintiff is not a public figure.

Number two is debatable. My assertions here were based on the assumption that he would not be considered a public figure. From the beginning I've not stated that as a certainty but only my best guess. If it ever went to court, the first thing the A News lawyers would do would be to assert that he was a public figure to get out from underneath Ohio libel law. On this you and the paper's lawyers may, indeed, be correct.
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 7/21/2017 12:01 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
A media representative cannot defame a person by accurately quoting a public official. Perhaps the public official (prosecutor) can be found to have defamed him, but not the writer in this case.
Correct. There is no libel against the newspaper because the newspaper's statement is not false if it accurately quotes the person. Only someone guilty of a false statement can be accused of libel.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/21/2017 12:23 PM
UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
A media representative cannot defame a person by accurately quoting a public official. Perhaps the public official (prosecutor) can be found to have defamed him, but not the writer in this case.
Correct. There is no libel against the newspaper because the newspaper's statement is not false if it accurately quotes the person. Only someone guilty of a false statement can be accused of libel.
Not if the person is not a public figure and state libel laws are germane. In those cases, the liability for a false statement is on the publication as well as on the person making the false statement, if not otherwise protected by privilege. In the vast majority of cases that get any publicity at all, of course, the person is a public figure so what you say is true, but you can't make a blanket statement that it is always true.
C Money
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Posted: 7/21/2017 1:56 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
A media representative cannot defame a person by accurately quoting a public official. Perhaps the public official (prosecutor) can be found to have defamed him, but not the writer in this case.
Correct. There is no libel against the newspaper because the newspaper's statement is not false if it accurately quotes the person. Only someone guilty of a false statement can be accused of libel.
Not if the person is not a public figure and state libel laws are germane. In those cases, the liability for a false statement is on the publication as well as on the person making the false statement, if not otherwise protected by privilege. In the vast majority of cases that get any publicity at all, of course, the person is a public figure so what you say is true, but you can't make a blanket statement that it is always true.
I would really like to know the source on that, because I've got an open afternoon to peruse the local papers and send out some law office advertising letters.
L.C.
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Posted: 7/21/2017 2:08 PM
For the situation where the paper accurately reports an incorrect statement, I found the following summary of the "Fair Reporting Privilege" online:
hbklaw.com wrote:expand_more
The Restatement (Second) of Torts Section 611, provides as follows: "The publication of defamatory matter concerning another in a report of an official action or proceeding * * * is privileged if the report is accurate and complete or a fair abridgement of the occurrence reported."

This section of the Restatement was adopted by the Illinois Supreme Court in Catalano v. Pechous, 83 Ill.2d 146, 419 N.E.2d 350, 50 Ill.Dec.242 (1980).

Although the literal language of the Restatement limits the privilege to reports of "proceedings," it has been extended to the statements of law enforcement officials in their official capacities.

Under this privilege, the news media may reprint defamatory information reported by another in the context of public records or proceedings. The privilege protects news accounts based on the written and verbal statements of governmental agencies and officials made in their official capacities. Myers v. The Telegraph, 332 Ill.App.3d 917, 773 N.E.2d 192, 265 Ill.Dec. 830 (5th Dist. 2002)

For the privilege to apply, the news media is obligated to summarize the defamatory matter in a fair and accurate manner. The accuracy of the summary, not the truth or falsity of the information being summarized, determines whether the privilege applies. Myers, supra. A plaintiff can defeat this affirmative defense of reporting privilege if he can show that the defamatory matter does not appear in the official record or proceedings. Myers, supra. In the case where an official has made oral statements, a plaintiff may get his case to trial by showing that the report did not accurately summarize the statement of the official. Maple Lanes, Inc. v. News Media Corporation, 322 Ill.App.3d 842, 751 N.E.2d 177, 256 Ill.Dec.124 (2nd Dist. 2001).
C Money
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Posted: 7/21/2017 2:15 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
For the situation where the paper accurately reports an incorrect statement, I found the following summary of the "Fair Reporting Privilege" online...
Found this from the Ohio State Bar Association. Page 5 discusses the privilege for reporters. It agrees that so long as the quote is accurate, there is no liability even if the statement is false.

https://www.ohiobar.org/General%20Resources/pub/journalis...
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/21/2017 3:08 PM
"Private figure plaintiffs: Edwards v. National Audubon involved an instance where the person defamed (the plaintiff) was a nationally known scientist, a prominent public figure. In cases where the plaintiff is a private person, courts have split over whether to recognize the neutral reportage privilege. See, e.g., Khawar v. Globe International, 19 Cal. 4th 254, 271 (Cal. 1998) (plaintiff was a youth accused of involvement in the Robert Kennedy assassination). The trend, however, seems to be for courts to recognize the privilege even when private figure plaintiffs are involved."

Source:
http://www.dmlp.org/book/export/html/1820
Alan Swank
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Posted: 7/21/2017 3:16 PM
All I want to know is what did he "do?"
L.C.
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Posted: 7/21/2017 4:24 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
All I want to know is what did he "do?"

What he pled guilty to was tampering with records. At this point, it doesn't matter anymore if he actually took money because the Athens News says that the prosecutor said he did, and that makes it the "truth" for most people. Since he didn't prove his innocence in court, he is presumed to be guilty.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 7/23/2017 12:14 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
A media representative cannot defame a person by accurately quoting a public official. Perhaps the public official (prosecutor) can be found to have defamed him, but not the writer in this case.

Secondly, you'd be hard pressed to prove that the promotions director of a public institution is not a "public" individual.
Why do we even try to explain something to OCF? I mean he coined the term "get off my lawn".

OCF, you are simply wrong on this at every term.

LC, you seriously went down that road and was using the wrong story to validate your claims?

Finally, I'll take SBH and his knowledge on the subject of journalism, long before I'll take OCF's knowledge on anything that he didn't get out of a Civil War book.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 7/23/2017 12:15 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
A media representative cannot defame a person by accurately quoting a public official. Perhaps the public official (prosecutor) can be found to have defamed him, but not the writer in this case.
Correct. There is no libel against the newspaper because the newspaper's statement is not false if it accurately quotes the person. Only someone guilty of a false statement can be accused of libel.
Not if the person is not a public figure and state libel laws are germane. In those cases, the liability for a false statement is on the publication as well as on the person making the false statement, if not otherwise protected by privilege. In the vast majority of cases that get any publicity at all, of course, the person is a public figure so what you say is true, but you can't make a blanket statement that it is always true.
Dude, are you trying to take Monroe's title of beating a dead horse and being wrong while you do it?
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 7/23/2017 12:18 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
"Private figure plaintiffs: Edwards v. National Audubon involved an instance where the person defamed (the plaintiff) was a nationally known scientist, a prominent public figure. In cases where the plaintiff is a private person, courts have split over whether to recognize the neutral reportage privilege. See, e.g., Khawar v. Globe International, 19 Cal. 4th 254, 271 (Cal. 1998) (plaintiff was a youth accused of involvement in the Robert Kennedy assassination). The trend, however, seems to be for courts to recognize the privilege even when private figure plaintiffs are involved."

Source:
http://www.dmlp.org/book/export/html/1820
In none of those cases are the facts the same as this. Next lame dance around admitting you are no Clarance Darrow
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