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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Bowl Participation
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allen
1/2/2018 12:19 PM
roger wrote:expand_more
This isnt about ethics or comparing jobs to college kids. If someone has the ability to be a first round draft kid (Mel Kiper has him #1) and doesnt want to jeopardize his future....and the team is informed about it.....then there is no problem. Most of yall wont understand that though....because most of you dont come from poverty and have your families putting all their eggs in one basket on "you" to be the family provider. I suggest you read into the lives of these kids before judging them. Makes me sick to hear people say that a kid should play his last game when coaches bounce on kids for new jobs and get paid millions of dollars. Until you are in that situation and have your family depending on you....you have no room to say whether a kid should sit on the sidelines....after everything that kid did to build your program. And from the looks of the game....they didnt even need him. More experience for the next guy up. I guarantee the LB from Notre Dame (drafted in 2015) would change his mind and not play injuring his ACL and dropping from 1st to 3rd round. Do you know how much money he lost??
Here’s what I don’t understand: you sign a contract (in this case a scholarship) that says you will play football for that school in return for a free education. If all of a sudden you choose not to play then you shouldn’t be any where near the team and disenrolled from the school. How about teaching them something more important in life, such as your word is your bond or if you violate a contract then there are consequences.
The player has met his end of the contract after the regular season is completed. The bowl games outside of the college football championship is extracurricular. The NCAA and schools have med business decisions for centuries, the players are finally starting to look out for themselves. I remember when Ohio got sued for kicking injured players off scholarships. FS has looked out for our players, besides making them major in specialized studies (sarcasm). All of the fans taking these I would make the players saddle up and blahsay blahsay should look at the whole picture. Read about Denzel Ward's father, read about Jake Butt and try to understand the player's side
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rpbobcat
1/2/2018 12:35 PM
The players are doing what they feel is in their best interest.

I understand that.

One can argue all day whether they agree or disagree with players siting out bowl,or other late season games.

I do think that,when you quit school and/or the team,you forfeit the right to be treated as a member of that team.

That includes being on the sidelines and wearing you uniform jersey.
That honor should be reserved for guys who are still a member of the team,but for whatever reason aren't playing.
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Robert Fox
1/2/2018 12:35 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
The player has met his end of the contract after the regular season is completed.
Where do you get that idea?
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allen
1/2/2018 12:54 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
The player has met his end of the contract after the regular season is completed.
Where do you get that idea?
Most players leave school after the semester to go and train for the draft combine. They have completed the regular season, the bowls occur after most semesters are over, hence they have fulfilled their end of the contract.
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allen
1/2/2018 1:02 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
ExCat 21 A couple of things: You said it makes you sick when people judge poor kids for not playing so they can make a big payday. First of all that assumes that all of the players come from impoverished backgrounds. Not true at all. Secondly, I would bet I came from less than money than 90% of college athletes today. I never quit on an employer without the customary two week notice in my life, never quit on my team, family, friends etc. I also paid back all of my student loans. I am sure there is a healthy majority of people that can say what I said in the last couple of sentences. It is sad that we are making excuses for those who don't believe that. You quit on your team in that fashion and everything else afterwards is something you can rationalize to quit on as well.

Let repeat what I said about Saquon Barkley, he's the class act that we should emulate. He said he couldn't imagine quitting on his team and not playing. Finally, you said the Notre Dame player who didn't quit on his team probably wishes he would change that decision. At the end of our days on this earth we won't be judged for how much money we accumulated, but the ethics for which we stood.
The players probably give two week notice as well. These guys are gladiators and to compare them to ourselves is a poor correlation. They put there bodies on the line and leave school with CTE, lingering upper and lower extremity injuries. We fail to see the positive in this. The reserve gets meaningful experience on the big stage, the prosects maintian his health and is in position to give back to his university and the fans get a preview of what to expect next year.
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Alan Swank
1/2/2018 1:02 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
The player has met his end of the contract after the regular season is completed.
Where do you get that idea?
Most players leave school after the semester to go and train for the draft combine. They have completed the regular season, the bowls occur after most semesters are over, hence they have fulfilled their end of the contract.
Looks like 2018 is shaping up to be just like 2017.
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cc-cat
1/2/2018 1:36 PM
These bowl games are simply a dot in time - with no meaning - quick - who did Stanford play last year and in what bowl? Who won? No looking it up. Oh, and who cares.

I recall last year folks saying NFL teams and locker rooms would be turned off by folks like McCaffrey skipping the bowl. News flash - no one in the NFL cared. Not the team, not the players, not the fans. Not once this year have I heard any Panthers fan question his heart or commitment. We are just glad he didn't play and get hurt in a bowl game last year.

Coaches have been skipping out on bowl games (and their contracts) for decades. They made a business decision and moved on. But God forbid a player make a business decision. And you won't find a university kicking a kid out of school because he bails on a ball game. It would be a bad business decision. They know the players are the product and kicking a kid out of school over not playing in a bowl game sends a message to recruits. Plus those that skip the bowl ARE dropping out of schools this semester to train for the combine, etc. A further example on how this is about business not education (oh my!!!).

If you are disturbed at a player being allowed to stay on the sidelines after declining to play - that's fine, I understand, and agree. But the coach and administration made a business and organization decision. Consumers can respond as they wish (buying or not buying). Anyone that thinks players declining to play in bowl games is going to lead to a mass exodus by Cardinal/Buckeye/etc. fans are kidding themselves.
Last Edited: 1/2/2018 1:48:33 PM by cc-cat
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Robert Fox
1/2/2018 1:49 PM
And the coaches get criticized for it. Why shouldn't the players?
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cc-cat
1/2/2018 1:54 PM
Criticize all you want - it will have the same effect as the coaches moving on - none. Money wins.

The only thing that has had any (barely) restriction on a coach moving on is the buyout.

Can't have a buyout with players - they don't get paid. Can't fine them for dropping out - students drop out all the time.
Last Edited: 1/2/2018 1:57:45 PM by cc-cat
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Robert Fox
1/2/2018 1:55 PM
Now that I can agree with.
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cbus cat fan
1/2/2018 9:09 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
ExCat 21 A couple of things: You said it makes you sick when people judge poor kids for not playing so they can make a big payday. First of all that assumes that all of the players come from impoverished backgrounds. Not true at all. Secondly, I would bet I came from less than money than 90% of college athletes today. I never quit on an employer without the customary two week notice in my life, never quit on my team, family, friends etc. I also paid back all of my student loans. I am sure there is a healthy majority of people that can say what I said in the last couple of sentences. It is sad that we are making excuses for those who don't believe that. You quit on your team in that fashion and everything else afterwards is something you can rationalize to quit on as well.

Let repeat what I said about Saquon Barkley, he's the class act that we should emulate. He said he couldn't imagine quitting on his team and not playing. Finally, you said the Notre Dame player who didn't quit on his team probably wishes he would change that decision. At the end of our days on this earth we won't be judged for how much money we accumulated, but the ethics for which we stood.
The players probably give two week notice as well. These guys are gladiators and to compare them to ourselves is a poor correlation. They put there bodies on the line and leave school with CTE, lingering upper and lower extremity injuries. We fail to see the positive in this. The reserve gets meaningful experience on the big stage, the prosects maintian his health and is in position to give back to his university and the fans get a preview of what to expect next year.
Allen you can believe what you want and rationalize as you wish. I have played and coached and the there are many things I like about athletics. Off the bat, I like the idea of competition where one gets to measure themselves against others, I certainly have lost my fair share of battles but always did my best. However, the thing I most like is the ethics that sports teaches. I can't tell you how many former players have come to me and commented not on the winning games or seasons, but on the seasons where our talent wasn't the greatest and we had our backs against the wall. We could have easily mailed in our season. However, they battled did the right thing and I would like to think I motivated them to never quit or take the easy road.

Some might laugh at this as old fashioned and snicker that I am not nuanced enough for their hip, modern minds. However, those ethics surely meant something to the players I coached. If you don't believe me listen to a more current example of someone I have never met that being Saquon Barkley. He said he could not imagine playing and quitting on his team. Finally real gladiators are not players or coaches, but are those who have real difficult jobs with little pay a la first responders and the military. They are the real heroes of this world.
Last Edited: 1/2/2018 9:10:40 PM by cbus cat fan
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ExCat21
1/3/2018 3:20 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
ExCat 21 A couple of things: You said it makes you sick when people judge poor kids for not playing so they can make a big payday. First of all that assumes that all of the players come from impoverished backgrounds. Not true at all. Secondly, I would bet I came from less than money than 90% of college athletes today. I never quit on an employer without the customary two week notice in my life, never quit on my team, family, friends etc. I also paid back all of my student loans. I am sure there is a healthy majority of people that can say what I said in the last couple of sentences. It is sad that we are making excuses for those who don't believe that. You quit on your team in that fashion and everything else afterwards is something you can rationalize to quit on as well.

Let repeat what I said about Saquon Barkley, he's the class act that we should emulate. He said he couldn't imagine quitting on his team and not playing. Finally, you said the Notre Dame player who didn't quit on his team probably wishes he would change that decision. At the end of our days on this earth we won't be judged for how much money we accumulated, but the ethics for which we stood.
The players probably give two week notice as well. These guys are gladiators and to compare them to ourselves is a poor correlation. They put there bodies on the line and leave school with CTE, lingering upper and lower extremity injuries. We fail to see the positive in this. The reserve gets meaningful experience on the big stage, the prosects maintian his health and is in position to give back to his university and the fans get a preview of what to expect next year.
THHHHHANNNNNNK YOOOOOU! Great reasons as well. But seriously guys, this isn't a military commitment. I agree that it is a contract, however, the coaching staff is involved in the decision as well. Hence, why they are still apart of the team and ALLOWED by the team and the staff to be a part of the bowl experience and support the reserves that will be playing. I don't see how fans can despise a kid and call them a quitter. They didn't QUIT the team; just simply protecting their interest. Schools want their athletes to go on with their professional careers; which the school gains notoriety from and highlight that to future recruits. Be honest, if you were in the same shoes as an elite athlete that has a chance to play on Sunday (the school and the staff supported you), you honestly would risk a meaningless Bowl Game for a future in the league?? The only Bowl game I would not skip is the College Playoff. I respect how you feel and as a fan you want to see your team as a whole finish through the season. But so much money is involved in college athletics and the kids do get a tax write-off education but I think it's awesome the players are starting to control their futures and understand their worth. And if the school punished me or deterred me in any form or fashion, I would advise future recruits of the perils of going to a particular school. A player that has sacrificed time away from family, put in work to build a program and has a great shot at the next level would not be considered a QUITTER in my eyes. I would look my brother in the eye and say "GO GET IT FOR ALL OF US!!" But this is just my opinion.
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allen
1/3/2018 3:40 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
ExCat 21 A couple of things: You said it makes you sick when people judge poor kids for not playing so they can make a big payday. First of all that assumes that all of the players come from impoverished backgrounds. Not true at all. Secondly, I would bet I came from less than money than 90% of college athletes today. I never quit on an employer without the customary two week notice in my life, never quit on my team, family, friends etc. I also paid back all of my student loans. I am sure there is a healthy majority of people that can say what I said in the last couple of sentences. It is sad that we are making excuses for those who don't believe that. You quit on your team in that fashion and everything else afterwards is something you can rationalize to quit on as well.

Let repeat what I said about Saquon Barkley, he's the class act that we should emulate. He said he couldn't imagine quitting on his team and not playing. Finally, you said the Notre Dame player who didn't quit on his team probably wishes he would change that decision. At the end of our days on this earth we won't be judged for how much money we accumulated, but the ethics for which we stood.
The players probably give two week notice as well. These guys are gladiators and to compare them to ourselves is a poor correlation. They put there bodies on the line and leave school with CTE, lingering upper and lower extremity injuries. We fail to see the positive in this. The reserve gets meaningful experience on the big stage, the prosects maintian his health and is in position to give back to his university and the fans get a preview of what to expect next year.
Allen you can believe what you want and rationalize as you wish. I have played and coached and the there are many things I like about athletics. Off the bat, I like the idea of competition where one gets to measure themselves against others, I certainly have lost my fair share of battles but always did my best. However, the thing I most like is the ethics that sports teaches. I can't tell you how many former players have come to me and commented not on the winning games or seasons, but on the seasons where our talent wasn't the greatest and we had our backs against the wall. We could have easily mailed in our season. However, they battled did the right thing and I would like to think I motivated them to never quit or take the easy road.

Some might laugh at this as old fashioned and snicker that I am not nuanced enough for their hip, modern minds. However, those ethics surely meant something to the players I coached. If you don't believe me listen to a more current example of someone I have never met that being Saquon Barkley. He said he could not imagine playing and quitting on his team. Finally real gladiators are not players or coaches, but are those who have real difficult jobs with little pay a la first responders and the military. They are the real heroes of this world.
You have to walk in their shoes. Denzel has been through a lot, I knew his father and my nephew played with him at Nordonia. Alex an Ohio recruit also played with him at Nordonia. I am a veteran and I have been to Afghanistan. There are military ethics, sport ethics and business ethics. I would lay down my life for my country. I would not lay down my life for my university. I believe we call that situational ethics. These kids need to look out for their best interest at some point and each person's Saquon Barkley's) threshold is different. Ohio State did not make it to the championship so Denzel gave his back up a chance to shine. Denzel will get drafted and honor his father's passing and make lot's of money. He will be able to take care of his mother who is now a widow and donate to OSU. There are a lot of fake heroes that would run through a wall for everything. They have the posture and words, but when it comes to actions, nothing. I try to be transparent instead of playing the cyber super hero.
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Sam bobcat
1/4/2018 1:20 PM
Anyone saying a multi million dollar contract wouldn't affect their decision to play or not in a bowl game is a liar or a complete fool.
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Bobcat1998
1/4/2018 3:28 PM
mf279801 wrote:expand_more
Could be that the coaching staff's permitting him on the sideline had less to do with warm feelings for Mr. Ward and his decision and more to do with projecting a message to future bluechip recruits. (Shame on me for harboring a measure of cynicism during the holidays.)
That could very well be. Regardless, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been standing there (as a member of the official travel party and in his jersey no less) without the permission of the coaching staff.
I think it's wrong to let him attend the bowl game and to even allow him to keep his scholarship past this semester if he is staying at school. But....I also understand that these guys go back to OSU/Bama/Oregon etc. after the NFL millions and donate their own thousands and millions back to the athletic program. OSU wouldn't want to burn a bridge with a potential top 10 pick like Ward. He may someday buy them a new practice facility.
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