Ohio Football Topic
Topic: O.T. Urban Meyer Placed On Administrative Leave
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sargentfan
8/3/2018 10:12 AM
Alot of good information and discussion here. And I agree with some of the posts already made, it will come down to what rules OSU has in place for reporting and what Meyer actually knew. The lying to the media won't get Meyer fired, it would be the withholding of information to the school. As the school is in the end responsible for determining who they employee and what risk they are willing to take for possible damage employing a person could have on the university's reputation.

The fuel to this will be the existing fires OSU is currently dealing with. If those weren't there it may make it easier, but they are and thus they will add further complications to any decisions they make. And OSU already has a history of firing coaches rather than to continue to take a PR hit. For good reason as history shows most any good coach can flourish there with the talent and resources available.
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cc-cat
8/3/2018 10:16 AM
sargentfan wrote:expand_more
And OSU already has a history of firing coaches rather than to continue to take a PR hit. For good reason as history shows most any good coach can flourish there with the talent and resources available.
Woody, Sweater Vest, Urban - Oddly it is a place where coaches often flame out in disgrace at the end.
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L.C.
8/3/2018 10:35 AM
Meanwhile, in other news, Florida has a "No weapons" policy, but it only applies sometimes.
https://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/florida-coach-dan-mu... /
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
8/3/2018 11:12 AM
I don't understand why rich and powerful people don't use their lawyers. That's why they are there. The second you learn this info, call your lawyer. Ask them what to do next.

Don't go to a life coach. Don't go to a mentor. Don't go to a colleague. You can talk to them later. Go to the person who can tell you what your responsibilities are in that situation.
Last Edited: 8/3/2018 11:16:04 AM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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The Optimist
8/3/2018 11:31 AM
Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
I don't understand why rich and powerful people don't use their lawyers. That's why they are there. The second you learn this info, call your lawyer. Ask them what to do next.

Don't go to a life coach. Don't go to a mentor. Don't go to a colleague. You can talk to them later. Go to the person who can tell you what your responsibilities are in that situation.
It's sad that we're at a point in society where calling a lawyer to protect yourself takes precedence over doing the right thing.
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OhioStunter
8/3/2018 11:34 AM
Jeff Johnson wrote:expand_more
Just to throw more gas on the fire....

https://www.projectveritas.com/2018/08/02/an-unfair-game-... /
A few observations on this:

-I'm not entirely surprised to see revelations like this. I think this type of stuff has been going on for years and was probably much worse than it is today. It don't think it is right, but I don't think it is shocking info that athletes are pushed to their limits and constantly yelled at. Guys like Bud Kilmer (Varsity Blues) are probably a lot more prevalent than we realize.
-Curious as to the timing of this report. Wow. What a coincidence.
-Project Veritas has a history of questionable reports. While I actually don't doubt the accuracy of this particular report, orgs like Project Veritas -- whose sole purpose is to bring down people and organizations -- should be viewed with a different filter than news organization reports. For example, this as billed as "undercover video" -- but it is interviews with former athletes with what looks like a cell phone sitting on the table during the interview. So did Project Veritas not tell the interviewees they were being recorded? Or did they get permission to record and still call it an "undercover video"?
Last Edited: 8/3/2018 11:40:52 AM by OhioStunter
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
8/3/2018 12:35 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
I don't understand why rich and powerful people don't use their lawyers. That's why they are there. The second you learn this info, call your lawyer. Ask them what to do next.

Don't go to a life coach. Don't go to a mentor. Don't go to a colleague. You can talk to them later. Go to the person who can tell you what your responsibilities are in that situation.
It's sad that we're at a point in society where calling a lawyer to protect yourself takes precedence over doing the right thing.
It's sad you keep responding to me when I've made it clear I find you reprehensible and don't wish to talk to you.

Calling his lawyer would've meant Smith was fired within the hour, this woman would've been heard and Meyer would be preparing for his first game of the season rather than on the cusp of being fired.

Doing the right thing is a process. It is not relying on your feelings or gut. There are procedures to follow so that this situation was handled properly.
Last Edited: 8/3/2018 12:42:05 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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GoCats105
8/3/2018 1:06 PM
Rumors swirling amongst the Columbus faithful that she is no saint either. Sounds like a dysfunctional relationship on both sides. Will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks and who else steps forward.
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GoCats105
8/3/2018 1:11 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
A couple of points for clarity as posts are starting to hijack reality to fit arguments.

Reality #1 - Meyer has not been fired (yet) - he has been placed on leave, pending investigation.

Reality #2 - all of the companies can't / shouldn't allow allegations...." "What is Urban suppose to do..." are answered clearly by the OSU policy handbook:

Ohio State's Sexual Misconduct policy, under the auspices of Title IX, requires all university employees to report what they know. Under domestic abuse, Ohio State's threshold is not whether a person has been charged. It reads in part, "An individual need not be charged with or convicted of a criminal offense to be found responsible for domestic violence pursuant to this policy."

That policy applies to "Ohio State faculty, staff, students, student employees, graduate associates, appointees, volunteers, vendors, and visitors."

Under frequently asked questions, the Ohio State policy also makes clear that leaders in the are required to do.

"Anyone who supervises faculty, staff, students, and volunteers; chairs/directors; and all faculty members have an additional obligation to report known or suspected incidents of sexual misconduct. Because of their positions of authority, these individuals have always had a heightened responsibility to report all other incidents of sexual misconduct."

Additionally, Reality #3 - Meyers new contract states:

Paragraph 4.1 (e) of Meyer's extension reads:

"Coach shall promptly report to Ohio State's Title IX Athletics any known violations of Ohio State's Sexual Misconduct Policy (including, but not limited to, sexual harassment, sexual assault, sexual exploitation, intimate violence and stalking) that involve any student, faculty or staff or that is in connection with a university sponsored activity or event. ... For purposes of this Section 4.1 (e), a "known violation" shall mean a violation or allegation of a violation of Title IX that Coach is aware of or has reasonable cause is taking place or may have taken place."


So if your company had a policy that stated you are responsible to inform the company of any allegations and you did not inform them of allegations that you were aware (and then if the company came to you later and asked "what did you know" and you say "nothing"). Then yes, indeed, your ass very well would be fired. But first, it is a good bet you would be placed on leave while your superiors investigated....just as is taking place with Meyer (and his wife who will certainly be fired) - per OSU policy that they disregarded.
Reading more through this, I don't think Meyer violated anything here. The victim is not a direct member of the Ohio State community and the alleged incidents didn't happen on OSU property or at OSU events.

This stipulation in his contract was probably put in place after Baylor had multiple students raped by football players. This is off the OSU campus, so I'm not sure this applies.

Also, there was a similar incident involving the University of Colorado and the case was dismissed in court for similar reasons.

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/07/19/tumpkin-lawsuit-cu-... /

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2018/07/19/la... /

So Urban can catch fire for lying directly to the media. That's not a crime last time I checked.
Last Edited: 8/3/2018 1:14:07 PM by GoCats105
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Buckeye to Bobcat
8/3/2018 1:32 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
A couple of points for clarity as posts are starting to hijack reality to fit arguments.

Reality #1 - Meyer has not been fired (yet) - he has been placed on leave, pending investigation.

Reality #2 - all of the companies can't / shouldn't allow allegations...." "What is Urban suppose to do..." are answered clearly by the OSU policy handbook:

Ohio State's Sexual Misconduct policy, under the auspices of Title IX, requires all university employees to report what they know. Under domestic abuse, Ohio State's threshold is not whether a person has been charged. It reads in part, "An individual need not be charged with or convicted of a criminal offense to be found responsible for domestic violence pursuant to this policy."

That policy applies to "Ohio State faculty, staff, students, student employees, graduate associates, appointees, volunteers, vendors, and visitors."

Under frequently asked questions, the Ohio State policy also makes clear that leaders in the are required to do.

"Anyone who supervises faculty, staff, students, and volunteers; chairs/directors; and all faculty members have an additional obligation to report known or suspected incidents of sexual misconduct. Because of their positions of authority, these individuals have always had a heightened responsibility to report all other incidents of sexual misconduct."

Additionally, Reality #3 - Meyers new contract states:

Paragraph 4.1 (e) of Meyer's extension reads:

"Coach shall promptly report to Ohio State's Title IX Athletics any known violations of Ohio State's Sexual Misconduct Policy (including, but not limited to, sexual harassment, sexual assault, sexual exploitation, intimate violence and stalking) that involve any student, faculty or staff or that is in connection with a university sponsored activity or event. ... For purposes of this Section 4.1 (e), a "known violation" shall mean a violation or allegation of a violation of Title IX that Coach is aware of or has reasonable cause is taking place or may have taken place."


So if your company had a policy that stated you are responsible to inform the company of any allegations and you did not inform them of allegations that you were aware (and then if the company came to you later and asked "what did you know" and you say "nothing"). Then yes, indeed, your ass very well would be fired. But first, it is a good bet you would be placed on leave while your superiors investigated....just as is taking place with Meyer (and his wife who will certainly be fired) - per OSU policy that they disregarded.
Reading more through this, I don't think Meyer violated anything here. The victim is not a direct member of the Ohio State community and the alleged incidents didn't happen on OSU property or at OSU events.

This stipulation in his contract was probably put in place after Baylor had multiple students raped by football players. This is off the OSU campus, so I'm not sure this applies.

Also, there was a similar incident involving the University of Colorado and the case was dismissed in court for similar reasons.

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/07/19/tumpkin-lawsuit-cu-... /

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2018/07/19/la... /

So Urban can catch fire for lying directly to the media. That's not a crime last time I checked.
I think Urban survives, at least from what I'm gathering. +1 to the comment above.

If he does gets fired though this sets a dangerous precedent for the contract he signed in April and I bet is the discussion lawyers are having right now between Ohio State's lawyers and Urban's. I mean what if you own a company in any sector and because of this case you get sued for this? That is what this is boiling down to in my opinion because at THAT time his contract did not cover this situation and have to bet that more than just those two knew. Knowing how we did things in Athens, if anyone came across a police blotter or anything happened legally, we were pretty in tune with it with a hurry. If anyone could be in trouble because of this it is easily Gene Smith as well. From what I have heard from friends up that way is that apparently they are also doing a check on Gene Smith as well to see if he knew what was going on and did not step in. Nonetheless....

If anything, he gets nailed for the dishonesty he presented at Big Ten Media Days but again, Ohio State is going to do everything to keep him I believe.

Prediction: 3-4 game suspension, and let the courts fight because it usually takes two to tango, especially from the rumor mill in Columbus, especially considering her own parents told her to stick with Zach Smith. The story should get quite fun in a hurry......
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cc-cat
8/3/2018 2:04 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
A couple of points for clarity as posts are starting to hijack reality to fit arguments.

Reality #1 - Meyer has not been fired (yet) - he has been placed on leave, pending investigation.

Reality #2 - all of the companies can't / shouldn't allow allegations...." "What is Urban suppose to do..." are answered clearly by the OSU policy handbook:

Ohio State's Sexual Misconduct policy, under the auspices of Title IX, requires all university employees to report what they know. Under domestic abuse, Ohio State's threshold is not whether a person has been charged. It reads in part, "An individual need not be charged with or convicted of a criminal offense to be found responsible for domestic violence pursuant to this policy."

That policy applies to "Ohio State faculty, staff, students, student employees, graduate associates, appointees, volunteers, vendors, and visitors."

Under frequently asked questions, the Ohio State policy also makes clear that leaders in the are required to do.

"Anyone who supervises faculty, staff, students, and volunteers; chairs/directors; and all faculty members have an additional obligation to report known or suspected incidents of sexual misconduct. Because of their positions of authority, these individuals have always had a heightened responsibility to report all other incidents of sexual misconduct."

Additionally, Reality #3 - Meyers new contract states:

Paragraph 4.1 (e) of Meyer's extension reads:

"Coach shall promptly report to Ohio State's Title IX Athletics any known violations of Ohio State's Sexual Misconduct Policy (including, but not limited to, sexual harassment, sexual assault, sexual exploitation, intimate violence and stalking) that involve any student, faculty or staff or that is in connection with a university sponsored activity or event. ... For purposes of this Section 4.1 (e), a "known violation" shall mean a violation or allegation of a violation of Title IX that Coach is aware of or has reasonable cause is taking place or may have taken place."


So if your company had a policy that stated you are responsible to inform the company of any allegations and you did not inform them of allegations that you were aware (and then if the company came to you later and asked "what did you know" and you say "nothing"). Then yes, indeed, your ass very well would be fired. But first, it is a good bet you would be placed on leave while your superiors investigated....just as is taking place with Meyer (and his wife who will certainly be fired) - per OSU policy that they disregarded.
Reading more through this, I don't think Meyer violated anything here. The victim is not a direct member of the Ohio State community and the alleged incidents didn't happen on OSU property or at OSU events.
Her husband was a coach for OSU in 2015 when the alleged abuse took place and Mrs. and Mr. Meyer were made aware. Therefore the abuser is certainly a member of the community, and I contend she is as well. Regardless, he is which makes the OSU policy (in place in 2015) appropriate. Forget the recent contract, his original contract with OSU required him to adhere to OSU policy - I expect the findings to show he did not divulge what he knew AND I suspect he recently told OSU he knew nothing, but indeed did - both would result in his firing. Just as it would if you worked at any company - public or private.

He will not be fired for lying to the media. He will be fired for lying to his superiors and/or not reporting alleged abuse as required by OSU policy.
Last Edited: 8/3/2018 2:10:49 PM by cc-cat
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Bobcat1998
8/3/2018 2:41 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
And OSU already has a history of firing coaches rather than to continue to take a PR hit. For good reason as history shows most any good coach can flourish there with the talent and resources available.
Woody, Sweater Vest, Urban - Oddly it is a place where coaches often flame out in disgrace at the end.
Don't forget about Fickell who flamed out with an awful record and season!!!!! GO CATS AGAINST THE BADCATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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cbus cat fan
8/3/2018 2:49 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Rumors swirling amongst the Columbus faithful that she is no saint either. Sounds like a dysfunctional relationship on both sides. Will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks and who else steps forward.
I heard this as well, which begs the question why do you keep a coach around who is that toxic? It doesn't matter how saintly or unsaintly she may be, Zach Smith stalked her around Columbus even after she divorced him. The man has anger and judgement issues. As I stated before, my guess is that Coach Meyer feels he owes some sort of debt to the late Coach Earle Bruce for his station in life. It would seem to me that by employing his grandson and giving him the vast sum of his money he has been paid by Urban Meyer for the last 10 years, the debt would have been paid.

Coach Zach Smith is certainly no better than any MAC wide receiver's coach and my guess is he's paid more than every single one of them. As I said in a previous post, with regard to any sports program, business, church group, ladies's reading club etc, toxic people may not only bring you down but the entire program as well.
Last Edited: 8/3/2018 2:52:27 PM by cbus cat fan
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SBH
8/3/2018 2:53 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Rumors swirling amongst the Columbus faithful that she is no saint either. Sounds like a dysfunctional relationship on both sides. Will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks and who else steps forward.
I guess it's OK to beat the **** out her then. Sheesh.

Hard to imagine OSU fans blaming the victim.
Last Edited: 8/4/2018 4:01:06 PM by Ted Thompson
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C Money
8/3/2018 4:51 PM
Meyer doubles down:
https://twitter.com/osucoachmeyer/status/1025477101779075...

We're about to find out who runs osu: the president of the university or the football coach.
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GoCats105
8/3/2018 5:05 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Rumors swirling amongst the Columbus faithful that she is no saint either. Sounds like a dysfunctional relationship on both sides. Will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks and who else steps forward.
I guess it's OK to beat the *** out her then. Sheesh.

Hard to imagine OSU fans blaming the victim.
Wow. That's your interpretation of that? It's okay to beat the shit out of her? Jesus, dude.

NOBODY is saying that.

Edit: no doubt some OSU Bucknuts are saying that. Those are crazy people. That's not what has been discussed here.
Last Edited: 8/3/2018 5:08:12 PM by GoCats105
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mf279801
8/3/2018 5:13 PM
C Money wrote:expand_more
Meyer doubles down:
https://twitter.com/osucoachmeyer/status/1025477101779075...

We're about to find out who runs osu: the president of the university or the football coach.
So what argument is he making with that statement? That he *did* report the 2015 incident through osu channels and “misspoke” at Big10 media days? Or that he didn’t do anything wrong w.r.t. the 2015 incident because he didn’t know about it or did know about it but wasn’t required to report it?

Either way, the wording seems somewhat vague

Edit: intentionally vague that is
Last Edited: 8/3/2018 5:15:29 PM by mf279801
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OhioStunter
8/4/2018 1:16 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
I guess it's OK to beat the **** out her then. Sheesh.

Hard to imagine OSU fans blaming the victim.
That's a really ignorant comment.
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cc-cat
8/4/2018 8:25 AM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
I guess it's OK to beat the **** out her then. Sheesh.

Hard to imagine OSU fans blaming the victim.
That's a really ignorant comment.
if you go online and read comments in the Columbus Dispatch, many are saying Mrs Smith (the victim) is just being vindictive.
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Maddog13
8/4/2018 11:18 AM
There is the court of law, which requires evidence and not simply she said and he said. There is a Morals Clause, which requires the employer to have a solid case that said individual has, indeed, violated said agreement, thus making termination a little less expensive (at least in theory). There is also the court of public opinion, which seems to have a huge impact on situations like this, especially of late. Lastly, there is the question of how much this is going to cost everyone involved, and that is ultimately what is going to decide all of this.

It sounds like Urban Meyer has thrown down the gauntlet and let Ohio State know that they are going to have to fire him in order to get rid of him, but that doing so is going to be quite expensive. Those in charge of Ohio State must now decide what the ultimate cost of all of this is going to be. This, of course, also includes the cost of bringing yet another coach into the fold, which won't be cheap either. Since most of these high profile coaches appear to have questionable character flaws (after all, winning comes at a cost), it sounds like Ohio State now finds themselves in quite a pickle, so to speak.

Since I don't think that voluntarily terminating the football program is on the table at this point, it sounds like those in charge of Ohio State either have to open up the purse strings in a big way, or they have to support Meyer and thus basically come off as being in League with Satan as we all know that they truly are. After all, big time college football is a dirty, dirty game, and, indeed, it is about winning at all cost.
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SBH
8/4/2018 11:55 AM
Really good analysis. I am certain UM will be returning to the sideline, perhaps after a minimal suspension.
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Sam bobcat
8/4/2018 12:13 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
I guess it's OK to beat the **** out her then. Sheesh.

Hard to imagine OSU fans blaming the victim.
That's a really ignorant comment.
How is that comment ignorant? Ohio State fans are talking about rumors meant to discredit Mrs. Smith. And so are fans on this site. That would make your comment ignorant, not SBH’s.
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BuddyLee
8/4/2018 1:41 PM
I know Gene Smith has a lot of sports to monitor, but he’s dropped the ball numerous times now with his oversight and doesn’t get called out.
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yamaha45701
8/4/2018 2:29 PM
This win at all cost mentality is absurd. But with so much money riding on the outcomes, is it any wonder?
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