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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
1/10/2019 3:27 PM
My problem is, we've had some mediocre teams since I started rooting for the Bobcats, but this is one of the more painful to watch. I can watch an overmatched team in terms of talent lose games and still find enjoyment. But this team just throws the ball into the first row every third possession and can't shoot. It's hardly watchable.
Last Edited: 1/10/2019 3:28:08 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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BobcatSports
1/10/2019 5:25 PM
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
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longtiimelurker
1/10/2019 6:24 PM
BobcatSports wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
Good question. Who is coaching shooting on this staff?
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OU_Country
1/10/2019 11:22 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Pretty funny timing for the dueling threads with Carter having 0 fouls but leading the team in turnovers and Kirk limiting his turns (1:1 ratio is still poor).

I do find it out odd for a data/stats guy to blatantly lie about Carter avoiding foul trouble this year prior to the Northern Illinois game. Multiple foul outs and multiple games saddled with 4 fouls.
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/player-stat/...
That guy from Murray State leads the country in both turnovers and assists (9+ a game). Would like to see him play.



Had a big game tonight in a 21 point Murray State Where. Article in the tweet.

https://twitter.com/ChrisSchutte3/status/1083577300149514...


EDIT: For those who are infatuated with the number of offers players have, this kid had only this one at Murray State. So two of the best mid-major players in the country combined for 3 D1 offers.
Last Edited: 1/10/2019 11:34:53 PM by OU_Country
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OU_Country
1/10/2019 11:24 PM
BobcatSports wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
As bad as it looks, it was semi effective last year, but his release could still be better and quicker.
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allen
1/10/2019 11:58 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
As bad as it looks, it was semi effective last year, but his release could still be better and quicker.
Well the stats show that these are alternative facts. Kirk shot 40% from 3 and 72% from the line last year, both are respectable, this year he is shooting 25 from 3 and 58% from the line. Maybe we should have hired freeman as an assistant coach. Saul has touched us like no other coach so therefore we have a higher tolerance for his effectiveness. Giacomo is like Saul’s friend that is closer than a brother and the love is only getting greater. https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/teyvion-kirk...
Last Edited: 1/11/2019 6:35:59 PM by allen
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OU_Country
1/11/2019 2:14 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
As bad as it looks, it was semi effective last year, but his release could still be better and quicker.
Well the stats show that these are alternative facts. Kirk shot 40% from 3 and 72% from the line last year, both are respectable, this year he is shooting 25 from 3 and 58% from the line. Maybe we should have hired freeman as an assistant coach. Saul has touched us like no other coach so therefore we have a higher tolerance for his effectiveness. Giacomo is like sual’s friend that is closer than a brother and the love is only getting greater. https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/teyvion-kirk...
Good Lord man, come back to the conversation and leave out the "saul's friend" and preaching about "mediocrity". It's childish and isn't useful to the attempt at having a conversation.

The numbers last year were effective, I agree. I'd love to know why they aren't as much now. And seriously, all I was saying is that his jump shot is ugly, and unorthodox, and something no one would ever teach to a young kid. He can't often take a perimeter shot with someone in his face because of the wonky release he has.

Lastly, I would have loved to have kept Tommy here. If he were able to transfer his great form to others, he's got a great future as a coach.
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RSBobcat
1/11/2019 9:32 PM
TK's jump/set shooting mechanics are Horrible!!!

I don't see why the staff not just DEMAND he adjusts to a more "standard" mechanic jump/set (FT Or in play) - There would be ZERO Downside vs current results!!! All Upside opportunity!
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Gman
1/12/2019 12:00 PM
BobcatSports wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
^^^^this up here is the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol, changing a kids shooting form, the same form he has used his whole life, the form that got the kid Division 1 offers, now this is funny as hell.


If you guys wanna change something, change Saul's coaching style !!!
Last Edited: 1/12/2019 12:05:14 PM by Gman
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longtiimelurker
1/12/2019 10:32 PM
Gman wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
^^^^this up here is the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol, changing a kids shooting form, the same form he has used his whole life, the form that got the kid Division 1 offers, now this is funny as hell.


If you guys wanna change something, change Saul's coaching style !!!
To think a player can not change or improve his shooting ability and mechanics is silly. If that is dumbest thing heard to date I am amazed. You think just because a kid got a scholarship that he has shooting mechanics and form that should not or could not be improved or refined? Ever thought the scholarship was given because of other aspects of his game with the caveat that he may need to work on his shooting?
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BobcatSports
1/12/2019 11:13 PM
Gman read my post again. I said IF someone wanted to change his form that should have been addressed last off-season. I have no idea if Saul or anyone on staff is the least bit concerned with his shooting style. I acknowledge he got a D1 scholly and has become a scorer at that level. That said have you seen him fire up air balls from the free-throw line? Hilarious.
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Gman
1/13/2019 10:51 AM
longtiimelurker wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
^^^^this up here is the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol, changing a kids shooting form, the same form he has used his whole life, the form that got the kid Division 1 offers, now this is funny as hell.


If you guys wanna change something, change Saul's coaching style !!!
To think a player can not change or improve his shooting ability and mechanics is silly. If that is dumbest thing heard to date I am amazed. You think just because a kid got a scholarship that he has shooting mechanics and form that should not or could not be improved or refined? Ever thought the scholarship was given because of other aspects of his game with the caveat that he may need to work on his shooting?


The kid was 1st Team all MAC Freshman, they SHOOT everyday in practice and workouts in the summer. now all of a sudden you guys want his shot tweeked, some players have different styles of shooting, look at Lonzo Ball who now plays for the Lakers, you think his shot looks normal ? no player shoots the same they have their own style.

What everyone here should be wondering about instead of a kids jump shot, is who's gonna be our coach next year, because it won't be Saul.
Last Edited: 1/13/2019 10:58:21 AM by Gman
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BobcatSports
1/13/2019 12:13 PM
I’m capable of wondering about 2 things at the same time Gman. Neither of them, Kirk’s shooting form nor who may be our next b-ball coach are keeping me awake at night.
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longtiimelurker
1/13/2019 12:44 PM
Uh huh, yeah Gman. "all of a sudden" as if no one had commented on his shot from the first time they saw it in recruiting videos.
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The Better Ohio Bobcat
1/13/2019 12:50 PM
Gman wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
^^^^this up here is the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol, changing a kids shooting form, the same form he has used his whole life, the form that got the kid Division 1 offers, now this is funny as hell.


If you guys wanna change something, change Saul's coaching style !!!
To think a player can not change or improve his shooting ability and mechanics is silly. If that is dumbest thing heard to date I am amazed. You think just because a kid got a scholarship that he has shooting mechanics and form that should not or could not be improved or refined? Ever thought the scholarship was given because of other aspects of his game with the caveat that he may need to work on his shooting?


The kid was 1st Team all MAC Freshman, they SHOOT everyday in practice and workouts in the summer. now all of a sudden you guys want his shot tweeked, some players have different styles of shooting, look at Lonzo Ball who now plays for the Lakers, you think his shot looks normal ? no player shoots the same they have their own style.

What everyone here should be wondering about instead of a kids jump shot, is who's gonna be our coach next year, because it won't be Saul.
You can shoot however you want if you MAKE shots.
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Gman
1/13/2019 8:20 PM
The better Ohio Bobcat wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
^^^^this up here is the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol, changing a kids shooting form, the same form he has used his whole life, the form that got the kid Division 1 offers, now this is funny as hell.


If you guys wanna change something, change Saul's coaching style !!!
You guys can bitch and moan about TK's jump shot all ya want, but right now he is ranked 13th in the MAC in Shooting. 45.7 % you guys are a piece of work lol
To think a player can not change or improve his shooting ability and mechanics is silly. If that is dumbest thing heard to date I am amazed. You think just because a kid got a scholarship that he has shooting mechanics and form that should not or could not be improved or refined? Ever thought the scholarship was given because of other aspects of his game with the caveat that he may need to work on his shooting?


The kid was 1st Team all MAC Freshman, they SHOOT everyday in practice and workouts in the summer. now all of a sudden you guys want his shot tweeked, some players have different styles of shooting, look at Lonzo Ball who now plays for the Lakers, you think his shot looks normal ? no player shoots the same they have their own style.

What everyone here should be wondering about instead of a kids jump shot, is who's gonna be our coach next year, because it won't be Saul.
You can shoot however you want if you MAKE shots.
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allen
1/14/2019 12:16 AM
Gman wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
^^^^this up here is the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol, changing a kids shooting form, the same form he has used his whole life, the form that got the kid Division 1 offers, now this is funny as hell.


If you guys wanna change something, change Saul's coaching style !!!
To think a player can not change or improve his shooting ability and mechanics is silly. If that is dumbest thing heard to date I am amazed. You think just because a kid got a scholarship that he has shooting mechanics and form that should not or could not be improved or refined? Ever thought the scholarship was given because of other aspects of his game with the caveat that he may need to work on his shooting?


The kid was 1st Team all MAC Freshman, they SHOOT everyday in practice and workouts in the summer. now all of a sudden you guys want his shot tweeked, some players have different styles of shooting, look at Lonzo Ball who now plays for the Lakers, you think his shot looks normal ? no player shoots the same they have their own style.

What everyone here should be wondering about instead of a kids jump shot, is who's gonna be our coach next year, because it won't be Saul.

If TK would like to pursue a professional career he will need to change his shot, it is too slow and predictable. He may be able to speed up his release with repetition. Even Lonzo tweeked his shot, though it is still awkward. TK had a higher 3 point fg percentage than Carter, which is a little crazy. As fans, TK and his stroke has been a scapegoat for Saul and the team’s performance. We have talked about his turnovers, we have made inferences that he has dumb handlers and we have even said that he should be the 7th guy coming off the bench when he actually has some d1 accolades and we have a D3 bench. TK will continue to work along with his teammates and we will see what Saul can do with them. Let’s not go Steve King on TK. Go Cats
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OUVan
1/14/2019 11:28 AM
allen wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
^^^^this up here is the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol, changing a kids shooting form, the same form he has used his whole life, the form that got the kid Division 1 offers, now this is funny as hell.


If you guys wanna change something, change Saul's coaching style !!!
To think a player can not change or improve his shooting ability and mechanics is silly. If that is dumbest thing heard to date I am amazed. You think just because a kid got a scholarship that he has shooting mechanics and form that should not or could not be improved or refined? Ever thought the scholarship was given because of other aspects of his game with the caveat that he may need to work on his shooting?


The kid was 1st Team all MAC Freshman, they SHOOT everyday in practice and workouts in the summer. now all of a sudden you guys want his shot tweeked, some players have different styles of shooting, look at Lonzo Ball who now plays for the Lakers, you think his shot looks normal ? no player shoots the same they have their own style.

What everyone here should be wondering about instead of a kids jump shot, is who's gonna be our coach next year, because it won't be Saul.

If TK would like to pursue a professional career he will need to change his shot, it is too slow and predictable. He may be able to speed up his release with repetition. Even Lonzo tweeked his shot, though it is still awkward. TK had a higher 3 point fg percentage than Carter, which is a little crazy. As fans, TK and his stroke has been a scapegoat for Saul and the team’s performance. We have talked about his turnovers, we have made inferences that he has dumb handlers and we have even said that he should be the 7th guy coming off the bench when he actually has some d1 accolades and we have a D3 bench. TK will continue to work along with his teammates and we will see what Saul can do with them. Let’s not go Steve King on TK. Go Cats
My problems with TK have nothing to do with his handles or his shooting form. My problem is that Saul keeps playing him at the point and he is beyond awful at that position. He has the skill to do it but he has neither the court vision or the decision making required. He's also one of the least accurate passers I've seen at the position. And if you can't see the difference in Jason Carter and Teyvion Kirk I don't know what to tell you. But nice of you to pull the race card. Or perhaps we should pull it out on you because of your repeated attacks on Carter and any other white player that sees the court. Nobody here criticizes TK because of his race. They criticize him because they know that if we have a 3 on 1 break we know there is about a 25% chance we are scoring on it.
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Gman
1/14/2019 4:37 PM
TK shooting 45.9% from the field this season, Ranked 13th in the MAC in FG %, not to bad for a kid that can't shoot.TK is a slasher/driver kinda player. not a 3 point shooter, Its not TK's fault he plays the Point, that's where our soon to be fired coach plays him.
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BobcatSports
1/14/2019 6:30 PM
My posts regarding Kirk are not intended to rag on him. In fact I have been loathe to rag on any player past or present. If one looks at my post posts regarding him are of a very talented player with loads of athletic ability whose game is more suited to a small forward type.

I understand that Saul was probably pressed into playing Kirk at the point last year when Jaurron left the program. I acknowledge Kirk’s shooting percentages were acceptable last year as well. That said it appears Saul has a few other options this year to man the point. Considering Kirk’s outside shooting skills this year have deteriorated, coupled with his high turnover ratio, coupled with his unique ability to score around the rim leads me to believe he MAY be more valuable to the team in a small forward-type role. I have never called for his benching irregardless.

As to the poster’s racist angle it is insulting and reprehensible. Shame on you.
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Ted Thompson
1/14/2019 6:36 PM

TK has an unusual skillset. He's like a post-up two. A very effective weapon if you can figure out how to utilize him.

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allen
1/14/2019 7:19 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
OUCountry Kirk has the same shooting form this year that he had last year. IF his form can be fixed wouldn’t one think they would have done it over this past spring/summer?
^^^^this up here is the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol, changing a kids shooting form, the same form he has used his whole life, the form that got the kid Division 1 offers, now this is funny as hell.


If you guys wanna change something, change Saul's coaching style !!!
To think a player can not change or improve his shooting ability and mechanics is silly. If that is dumbest thing heard to date I am amazed. You think just because a kid got a scholarship that he has shooting mechanics and form that should not or could not be improved or refined? Ever thought the scholarship was given because of other aspects of his game with the caveat that he may need to work on his shooting?


The kid was 1st Team all MAC Freshman, they SHOOT everyday in practice and workouts in the summer. now all of a sudden you guys want his shot tweeked, some players have different styles of shooting, look at Lonzo Ball who now plays for the Lakers, you think his shot looks normal ? no player shoots the same they have their own style.

What everyone here should be wondering about instead of a kids jump shot, is who's gonna be our coach next year, because it won't be Saul.

If TK would like to pursue a professional career he will need to change his shot, it is too slow and predictable. He may be able to speed up his release with repetition. Even Lonzo tweeked his shot, though it is still awkward. TK had a higher 3 point fg percentage than Carter, which is a little crazy. As fans, TK and his stroke has been a scapegoat for Saul and the team’s performance. We have talked about his turnovers, we have made inferences that he has dumb handlers and we have even said that he should be the 7th guy coming off the bench when he actually has some d1 accolades and we have a D3 bench. TK will continue to work along with his teammates and we will see what Saul can do with them. Let’s not go Steve King on TK. Go Cats
My problems with TK have nothing to do with his handles or his shooting form. My problem is that Saul keeps playing him at the point and he is beyond awful at that position. He has the skill to do it but he has neither the court vision or the decision making required. He's also one of the least accurate passers I've seen at the position. And if you can't see the difference in Jason Carter and Teyvion Kirk I don't know what to tell you. But nice of you to pull the race card. Or perhaps we should pull it out on you because of your repeated attacks on Carter and any other white player that sees the court. Nobody here criticizes TK because of his race. They criticize him because they know that if we have a 3 on 1 break we know there is about a 25% chance we are scoring on it.

Criticizing his play is one thing, singling him out and assuming he has dumb handlers is another. Dumb handlers? There are definitely some people stereotyping and we all have prejudice, we have to try not to act on it or as the Holy Bible says cast down those imaginations. I like others question his decision making, I also think that he needs to improve his handle but TK if we are being honest has helped us win games.
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shabamon
1/14/2019 7:20 PM
If TK were 6'6'' 210 and not asked to run the offense, he'd be a MAC first teamer. No doubt about it.

I would love to see us go all in with developing Preston as the point guard of the future but still start TK.
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OU_Country
1/15/2019 1:26 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
If TK were 6'6'' 210 and not asked to run the offense, he'd be a MAC first teamer. No doubt about it.

I would love to see us go all in with developing Preston as the point guard of the future but still start TK.
On the other hand, if he were 6'6", he's probably playing the three at a P6 school. I'm not sure he wouldn't do better just playing the three at Ohio, even if he's undersized for it.
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Buck.Cat
1/15/2019 8:48 PM
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