Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Groce Ball 65 Saul Ball 53
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FearLeon
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Posted: 2/2/2019 5:28 PM
Actual things I've read about John Groce through the years on this site.

"John Groce is overrated."
"John Groce owes his career to Armon Bassett."
"John Groce just got lucky in March...that's all."
"John Groce got a great draw facing Michigan and South Florida in the NCAA Tournament."
"I'd rather have a coach that wins regular season MAC Championships than a coach who hung a Sweet 16 banner."
"The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity."

However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.

February 2, 2019
-----------------

Year 2 of Groce Akron Era 65
Year 5 of Saul Ohio Era 53
(And if you watched the game...you know Akron could have won this by 30 if it wanted too)

I guess it's only fitting that on the most anticipated day of the home hoops schedule this season that Groce drops the hammer on Saul. Dear lord almighty I have never, ever been more embarrassed to be an Ohio Bobcats basketball fan. That was atrocious today. March 17th can't get here soon enough.
Last Edited: 2/2/2019 5:53:38 PM by FearLeon
Bobcat1998
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Posted: 2/2/2019 6:03 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Actual things I've read about John Groce through the years on this site.

"John Groce is overrated."
"John Groce owes his career to Armon Bassett."
"John Groce just got lucky in March...that's all."
"John Groce got a great draw facing Michigan and South Florida in the NCAA Tournament."
"I'd rather have a coach that wins regular season MAC Championships than a coach who hung a Sweet 16 banner."
"The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity."

However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.

February 2, 2019
-----------------

Year 2 of Groce Akron Era 65
Year 5 of Saul Ohio Era 53
(And if you watched the game...you know Akron could have won this by 30 if it wanted too)

I guess it's only fitting that on the most anticipated day of the home hoops schedule this season that Groce drops the hammer on Saul. Dear lord almighty I have never, ever been more embarrassed to be an Ohio Bobcats basketball fan. That was atrocious today. March 17th can't get here soon enough.
And JC has been rumored to be out at BC, after destroying what JG left for him at OU. What would you think of this: bring Groce back to Athens?!!!!
SBH
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Posted: 2/2/2019 6:16 PM
Akron is mediocre at best. Hadn't won on the road until today. So let's hold off on the crowning of JC as the next John Wooden.

Every MAC team, including WMU, would have spanked us today.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 2/2/2019 6:26 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Akron is mediocre at best. Hadn't won on the road until today. So let's hold off on the crowning of JC as the next John Wooden.

Every MAC team, including WMU, would have spanked us today.
One team’s won 4 of their last 5 games and is starting to turn it up as the MAC Tourney draws near.
The other team’s lost 2 in a row and 4 of their last 6 games. If history holds true to form, I’d rather be the team that just won their last 4th out of 5 games.
Jerry86
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Posted: 2/2/2019 6:38 PM
Bobcat1998 wrote:expand_more
Actual things I've read about John Groce through the years on this site.

"John Groce is overrated."
"John Groce owes his career to Armon Bassett."
"John Groce just got lucky in March...that's all."
"John Groce got a great draw facing Michigan and South Florida in the NCAA Tournament."
"I'd rather have a coach that wins regular season MAC Championships than a coach who hung a Sweet 16 banner."
"The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity."

However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.

February 2, 2019
-----------------

Year 2 of Groce Akron Era 65
Year 5 of Saul Ohio Era 53
(And if you watched the game...you know Akron could have won this by 30 if it wanted too)

I guess it's only fitting that on the most anticipated day of the home hoops schedule this season that Groce drops the hammer on Saul. Dear lord almighty I have never, ever been more embarrassed to be an Ohio Bobcats basketball fan. That was atrocious today. March 17th can't get here soon enough.
And JC has been rumored to be out at BC, after destroying what JG left for him at OU. What would you think of this: bring Groce back to Athens?!!!!
Hahahaha. Christian "destroyed" what Groce left? Christian won 74% of MAC games here; Groce 53%. We all acknowledge Groce had one good year here. Heck, after 3 years in Athens he was 23- 25 in MAC games (7-9, 7-9, 9-7). His 4 years here were 6th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in conference play; Christian was 1st and 3rd. Christian followed Groce's 9-7 year with 14-2. That is destroying things? And you want to bring him back? Based on what? His 36% winning percentage in MAC games at Akron? Would he bring thugs who get into fights also?
Last Edited: 2/2/2019 6:39:39 PM by Jerry86
SBH
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Posted: 2/2/2019 6:42 PM
Wait, are you allowed to call a 21-year-old kid a thug?
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 2/2/2019 6:45 PM
Interesting. In the football threads, it’s all about winning the MACC. And this in a sport where it is literally impossible for Ohio to win a national championship.

Yet, in hoops for whatever reason we care what Ohio’s record is in the regular season and downgrade what happens in the MAC Tourney. In a sport where Ohio actually can win a national championship, we denigrate a coach who took us within 2 games of the Final 4 and a legit shot at winning it all. If Solich did that in football the guy would have a statue built on the College Green by now.
Last Edited: 2/4/2019 3:33:56 PM by Mark Lembright '85
FearLeon
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Posted: 2/2/2019 6:51 PM
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:expand_more
Interesting. In the football threads, it’s all about winning the MACC. And this in a sport where it is literally impossible for Ohio to win a national championship.

Yet, in hoops for whatever reason we care what Ohio’s record is in the regular season and downgrade what happens in the MAC Tourney. In a sport where Ohio actually can win a national championship, we denigrate a coach who took us within 2 games of the Final 4 and a legit shot at winning it all. If Solich did that in football the guy would have statue built on the College Green by now.
All of this ^^^^^^^ I'll never understand it either Mark.
FearLeon
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Posted: 2/2/2019 6:54 PM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
Actual things I've read about John Groce through the years on this site.

"John Groce is overrated."
"John Groce owes his career to Armon Bassett."
"John Groce just got lucky in March...that's all."
"John Groce got a great draw facing Michigan and South Florida in the NCAA Tournament."
"I'd rather have a coach that wins regular season MAC Championships than a coach who hung a Sweet 16 banner."
"The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity."

However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.

February 2, 2019
-----------------

Year 2 of Groce Akron Era 65
Year 5 of Saul Ohio Era 53
(And if you watched the game...you know Akron could have won this by 30 if it wanted too)

I guess it's only fitting that on the most anticipated day of the home hoops schedule this season that Groce drops the hammer on Saul. Dear lord almighty I have never, ever been more embarrassed to be an Ohio Bobcats basketball fan. That was atrocious today. March 17th can't get here soon enough.
And JC has been rumored to be out at BC, after destroying what JG left for him at OU. What would you think of this: bring Groce back to Athens?!!!!
Hahahaha. Christian "destroyed" what Groce left? Christian won 74% of MAC games here; Groce 53%. We all acknowledge Groce had one good year here. Heck, after 3 years in Athens he was 23- 25 in MAC games (7-9, 7-9, 9-7). His 4 years here were 6th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in conference play; Christian was 1st and 3rd. Christian followed Groce's 9-7 year with 14-2. That is destroying things? And you want to bring him back? Based on what? His 36% winning percentage in MAC games at Akron? Would he bring thugs who get into fights also?
Wait a minute Jerry....we aren't allowed to discuss an Ohio player shooting 27% from the field in nine MAC games. A player that his own coach referenced in a post-game interview following a terrible team performance, but you just called some 19-21 year old Akron players...thugs. Alrighty then.
Last Edited: 2/2/2019 6:54:59 PM by FearLeon
GraffZ06
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Posted: 2/2/2019 7:08 PM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
Hahahaha. Christian "destroyed" what Groce left? Christian won 74% of MAC games here; Groce 53%. We all acknowledge Groce had one good year here. Heck, after 3 years in Athens he was 23- 25 in MAC games (7-9, 7-9, 9-7). His 4 years here were 6th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in conference play; Christian was 1st and 3rd. Christian followed Groce's 9-7 year with 14-2. That is destroying things? And you want to bring him back? Based on what? His 36% winning percentage in MAC games at Akron? Would he bring thugs who get into fights also?
$5 and winning 74% of your MAC regular season games gets you a Starbucks cafe-mocha-halfa-cowalatachino. Repeat after me - nobody cares about the regular season. Regular season champs might as well get a participation ribbon.

MAC Tourney gets you into the NCAA. You know - the one big tournament that everybody in America actually watches and cares about. The one where you make your conference $$ and get tremendous exposure via nationwide TV views. The one where you actually have a shot to keep winning and become national champions. THAT matters.

This season stinks, again. But all that goes away if we pull off a miracle in Cleveland. Why? Because that's the only thing that matters. But boy - this team sure isn't playing well. Isn't a lot of fun to watch/follow and by any type of measure - statistical, eyeball or otherwise - doesn't seem to show signs of having any type of shot come Cleveland. In fact, they very distinctly might not even make it there.
Buckeye to Bobcat
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Posted: 2/2/2019 7:17 PM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
Actual things I've read about John Groce through the years on this site.

"John Groce is overrated."
"John Groce owes his career to Armon Bassett."
"John Groce just got lucky in March...that's all."
"John Groce got a great draw facing Michigan and South Florida in the NCAA Tournament."
"I'd rather have a coach that wins regular season MAC Championships than a coach who hung a Sweet 16 banner."
"The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity."

However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.

February 2, 2019
-----------------

Year 2 of Groce Akron Era 65
Year 5 of Saul Ohio Era 53
(And if you watched the game...you know Akron could have won this by 30 if it wanted too)

I guess it's only fitting that on the most anticipated day of the home hoops schedule this season that Groce drops the hammer on Saul. Dear lord almighty I have never, ever been more embarrassed to be an Ohio Bobcats basketball fan. That was atrocious today. March 17th can't get here soon enough.
And JC has been rumored to be out at BC, after destroying what JG left for him at OU. What would you think of this: bring Groce back to Athens?!!!!
Hahahaha. Christian "destroyed" what Groce left? Christian won 74% of MAC games here; Groce 53%. We all acknowledge Groce had one good year here. Heck, after 3 years in Athens he was 23- 25 in MAC games (7-9, 7-9, 9-7). His 4 years here were 6th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in conference play; Christian was 1st and 3rd. Christian followed Groce's 9-7 year with 14-2. That is destroying things? And you want to bring him back? Based on what? His 36% winning percentage in MAC games at Akron? Would he bring thugs who get into fights also?
Not apologizing for Saul. As I have said many times on here, JC had a mutiny happening and you better believe that Maurice N'Dour would have been an Iowa State Cyclone had he stayed for year 3. Christian did destroy anything of a house built at OU. The only good recruits he brought in in two years were Campbell, Mo, and Setty. He had his shares of duds and you better believe Bean had an arrest warrant against his rear end too like his buddy Wingfield. Funny how we forget that era that happened.

Nonetheless, not looking good for the current staff though.
Buck.Cat
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Posted: 2/2/2019 11:34 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.
::takes a bow::


Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
Would he bring thugs who get into fights also?
I wish we would finally get to the point where people would use the actual word that they intend instead of hiding behind the t-word.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/3/2019 7:37 AM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Actual things I've read about John Groce through the years on this site.

"John Groce is overrated."
"John Groce owes his career to Armon Bassett."
"John Groce just got lucky in March...that's all."
"John Groce got a great draw facing Michigan and South Florida in the NCAA Tournament."
"I'd rather have a coach that wins regular season MAC Championships than a coach who hung a Sweet 16 banner."
"The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity."

However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.

February 2, 2019
-----------------

Year 2 of Groce Akron Era 65
Year 5 of Saul Ohio Era 53
(And if you watched the game...you know Akron could have won this by 30 if it wanted too)

I guess it's only fitting that on the most anticipated day of the home hoops schedule this season that Groce drops the hammer on Saul. Dear lord almighty I have never, ever been more embarrassed to be an Ohio Bobcats basketball fan. That was atrocious today. March 17th can't get here soon enough.
And JC has been rumored to be out at BC, after destroying what JG left for him at OU. What would you think of this: bring Groce back to Athens?!!!!
Hahahaha. Christian "destroyed" what Groce left? Christian won 74% of MAC games here; Groce 53%. We all acknowledge Groce had one good year here. Heck, after 3 years in Athens he was 23- 25 in MAC games (7-9, 7-9, 9-7). His 4 years here were 6th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in conference play; Christian was 1st and 3rd. Christian followed Groce's 9-7 year with 14-2. That is destroying things? And you want to bring him back? Based on what? His 36% winning percentage in MAC games at Akron? Would he bring thugs who get into fights also?
Not apologizing for Saul. As I have said many times on here, JC had a mutiny happening and you better believe that Maurice N'Dour would have been an Iowa State Cyclone had he stayed for year 3. Christian did destroy anything of a house built at OU. The only good recruits he brought in in two years were Campbell, Mo, and Setty. He had his shares of duds and you better believe Bean had an arrest warrant against his rear end too like his buddy Wingfield. Funny how we forget that era that happened.

Nonetheless, not looking good for the current staff though.
In two years JC only managed to find our only player to get a cup of coffee in the NBA in 15 years and a MAC player of the year.

That seems good to me.
Buckeye to Bobcat
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Posted: 2/3/2019 9:45 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Actual things I've read about John Groce through the years on this site.

"John Groce is overrated."
"John Groce owes his career to Armon Bassett."
"John Groce just got lucky in March...that's all."
"John Groce got a great draw facing Michigan and South Florida in the NCAA Tournament."
"I'd rather have a coach that wins regular season MAC Championships than a coach who hung a Sweet 16 banner."
"The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity."

However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.

February 2, 2019
-----------------

Year 2 of Groce Akron Era 65
Year 5 of Saul Ohio Era 53
(And if you watched the game...you know Akron could have won this by 30 if it wanted too)

I guess it's only fitting that on the most anticipated day of the home hoops schedule this season that Groce drops the hammer on Saul. Dear lord almighty I have never, ever been more embarrassed to be an Ohio Bobcats basketball fan. That was atrocious today. March 17th can't get here soon enough.
And JC has been rumored to be out at BC, after destroying what JG left for him at OU. What would you think of this: bring Groce back to Athens?!!!!
Hahahaha. Christian "destroyed" what Groce left? Christian won 74% of MAC games here; Groce 53%. We all acknowledge Groce had one good year here. Heck, after 3 years in Athens he was 23- 25 in MAC games (7-9, 7-9, 9-7). His 4 years here were 6th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in conference play; Christian was 1st and 3rd. Christian followed Groce's 9-7 year with 14-2. That is destroying things? And you want to bring him back? Based on what? His 36% winning percentage in MAC games at Akron? Would he bring thugs who get into fights also?
Not apologizing for Saul. As I have said many times on here, JC had a mutiny happening and you better believe that Maurice N'Dour would have been an Iowa State Cyclone had he stayed for year 3. Christian did destroy anything of a house built at OU. The only good recruits he brought in in two years were Campbell, Mo, and Setty. He had his shares of duds and you better believe Bean had an arrest warrant against his rear end too like his buddy Wingfield. Funny how we forget that era that happened.

Nonetheless, not looking good for the current staff though.
In two years JC only managed to find our only player to get a cup of coffee in the NBA in 15 years and a MAC player of the year.

That seems good to me.
Glad the ends justify the means.....
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 2/3/2019 7:07 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Wait, are you allowed to call a 21-year-old kid a thug?
GMan is about to tell you his life history and how he doesn’t need a college degree, and oh, don’t be critical.
100%Cat
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Posted: 2/4/2019 8:39 AM
Congratulations to John Woode...I mean Groce on his first MAC road win of the year and second in the last two years...
Buckeye to Bobcat
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Posted: 2/4/2019 8:48 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Actual things I've read about John Groce through the years on this site.

"John Groce is overrated."
"John Groce owes his career to Armon Bassett."
"John Groce just got lucky in March...that's all."
"John Groce got a great draw facing Michigan and South Florida in the NCAA Tournament."
"I'd rather have a coach that wins regular season MAC Championships than a coach who hung a Sweet 16 banner."
"The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity."

However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.

February 2, 2019
-----------------

Year 2 of Groce Akron Era 65
Year 5 of Saul Ohio Era 53
(And if you watched the game...you know Akron could have won this by 30 if it wanted too)

I guess it's only fitting that on the most anticipated day of the home hoops schedule this season that Groce drops the hammer on Saul. Dear lord almighty I have never, ever been more embarrassed to be an Ohio Bobcats basketball fan. That was atrocious today. March 17th can't get here soon enough.
And JC has been rumored to be out at BC, after destroying what JG left for him at OU. What would you think of this: bring Groce back to Athens?!!!!
Hahahaha. Christian "destroyed" what Groce left? Christian won 74% of MAC games here; Groce 53%. We all acknowledge Groce had one good year here. Heck, after 3 years in Athens he was 23- 25 in MAC games (7-9, 7-9, 9-7). His 4 years here were 6th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in conference play; Christian was 1st and 3rd. Christian followed Groce's 9-7 year with 14-2. That is destroying things? And you want to bring him back? Based on what? His 36% winning percentage in MAC games at Akron? Would he bring thugs who get into fights also?
Not apologizing for Saul. As I have said many times on here, JC had a mutiny happening and you better believe that Maurice N'Dour would have been an Iowa State Cyclone had he stayed for year 3. Christian did destroy anything of a house built at OU. The only good recruits he brought in in two years were Campbell, Mo, and Setty. He had his shares of duds and you better believe Bean had an arrest warrant against his rear end too like his buddy Wingfield. Funny how we forget that era that happened.

Nonetheless, not looking good for the current staff though.
In two years JC only managed to find our only player to get a cup of coffee in the NBA in 15 years and a MAC player of the year.

That seems good to me.
Then by this logic I guess that is going to make Cooper at Fiami a successful coach when it's all said and done because he brought in Weathers who will be in the NBA, or for that matter Dan Dakich a great coach because he had Keith McCloud.....the building blocks that Christian left were made of quick sand and had no foundation for the next coach.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/4/2019 10:16 AM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Actual things I've read about John Groce through the years on this site.

"John Groce is overrated."
"John Groce owes his career to Armon Bassett."
"John Groce just got lucky in March...that's all."
"John Groce got a great draw facing Michigan and South Florida in the NCAA Tournament."
"I'd rather have a coach that wins regular season MAC Championships than a coach who hung a Sweet 16 banner."
"The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity."

However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.

February 2, 2019
-----------------

Year 2 of Groce Akron Era 65
Year 5 of Saul Ohio Era 53
(And if you watched the game...you know Akron could have won this by 30 if it wanted too)

I guess it's only fitting that on the most anticipated day of the home hoops schedule this season that Groce drops the hammer on Saul. Dear lord almighty I have never, ever been more embarrassed to be an Ohio Bobcats basketball fan. That was atrocious today. March 17th can't get here soon enough.
And JC has been rumored to be out at BC, after destroying what JG left for him at OU. What would you think of this: bring Groce back to Athens?!!!!
Hahahaha. Christian "destroyed" what Groce left? Christian won 74% of MAC games here; Groce 53%. We all acknowledge Groce had one good year here. Heck, after 3 years in Athens he was 23- 25 in MAC games (7-9, 7-9, 9-7). His 4 years here were 6th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in conference play; Christian was 1st and 3rd. Christian followed Groce's 9-7 year with 14-2. That is destroying things? And you want to bring him back? Based on what? His 36% winning percentage in MAC games at Akron? Would he bring thugs who get into fights also?
Not apologizing for Saul. As I have said many times on here, JC had a mutiny happening and you better believe that Maurice N'Dour would have been an Iowa State Cyclone had he stayed for year 3. Christian did destroy anything of a house built at OU. The only good recruits he brought in in two years were Campbell, Mo, and Setty. He had his shares of duds and you better believe Bean had an arrest warrant against his rear end too like his buddy Wingfield. Funny how we forget that era that happened.

Nonetheless, not looking good for the current staff though.
In two years JC only managed to find our only player to get a cup of coffee in the NBA in 15 years and a MAC player of the year.

That seems good to me.
Then by this logic I guess that is going to make Cooper at Fiami a successful coach when it's all said and done because he brought in Weathers who will be in the NBA, or for that matter Dan Dakich a great coach because he had Keith McCloud.....the building blocks that Christian left were made of quick sand and had no foundation for the next coach.
Huh?

Nothing you said logically follows what I said. Which is true of 80% of your posts here. You have a strong opinion you want to shout about repeatedly, and you assume everybody else is addressing the single point you make ad nauseam, when in actuality, the people around you are trying to have a nuanced conversation about many different things at once.

I know this is super complicated, but it's possible to say positive things about players that Jim Christian recruited without it defining Jim Christian's tenure here. Maurice N'Dour and Tony Campbell were very good players. I don't think we can really attack Christian's recruiting given those successes in such a short period of time.

Does that make Christian's tenure here a success? Nope. Does it mean other critiques of him are warrantless? Nope. Does it have anything at all to do with Dan Dakich? Not even a little bit.

On the other hand, are you completely incapable of rational discussion when it comes to OU coaches who succeeded John Groce? Yep.
catfan28
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Posted: 2/4/2019 11:42 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Huh?

Nothing you said logically follows what I said. Which is true of 80% of your posts here. You have a strong opinion you want to shout about repeatedly, and you assume everybody else is addressing the single point you make ad nauseam, when in actuality, the people around you are trying to have a nuanced conversation about many different things at once.

I know this is super complicated, but it's possible to say positive things about players that Jim Christian recruited without it defining Jim Christian's tenure here. Maurice N'Dour and Tony Campbell were very good players. I don't think we can really attack Christian's recruiting given those successes in such a short period of time.

Does that make Christian's tenure here a success? Nope. Does it mean other critiques of him are warrantless? Nope. Does it have anything at all to do with Dan Dakich? Not even a little bit.

On the other hand, are you completely incapable of rational discussion when it comes to OU coaches who succeeded John Groce? Yep.
Landing a couple good players (Ndour, Campbell) doesn't make you a good recruiter. A good recruiter is able to bring in athletes that comprise a TEAM that will play well together and win games. I could care less about the individual talent of 1-2 guys. Was Jim Christian successful in building such a team? Not even close. Things were crumbling as he left. And he was only here 2 years!

By any objective measure, both of Schaus' hires after Groce have been failures. They may have been good hires "on paper", but Schaus gets paid the big bucks to make hires that will work - not just those that look good to folks like us. IMO, he ignored the most important thing with any hire: fit.

He clearly misread Christian's intentions. Rather than "coming home" to the MAC, he was looking to escape a bad spot at TCU (as they moved up to the Big 12) and use our existing talent to parlay into a big-money P5 job. Kudos to JC for making it work.

As for Saul, Schaus picked him because of one win in the NCAA Tournament. If NDSU doesn't upset Oklahoma, no way Saul is lured in our direction. Saul inherited a solid program at NDSU, and was able to keep things going at a high level. I think Saul is more of a "maintainer" than a "builder". And, while many on the outside didn't see it, our program needed a "build" after the JC departure and the tinder box of personalities he left behind.

Schaus overplayed his hand twice. Once Groce left, he wanted a "splash" hire of a guy with tons of HC experience who had won in the MAC. He got it, but didn't think about the long-term consequences. Going to the other end of the spectrum, Saul's hire was made primarily with longevity in mind. He wanted someone who would stay a while and didn't have the "itch" to jump to the next job. Mission accomplished - but he got a rather average coach who is better left to maintain, not build.

Where do we go from here? Who knows. I expect Schaus will go back to more of the Christian mold - hiring a proven winner, maybe a guy fired or on the downside from a bigger program. The issue this time around will be the lack of support from Cutler Hall, and relatively lack of funding too.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 2/4/2019 12:22 PM
One of the things I hate about message boards is how people take select voices from a group and contrast that with other voices from the group and wrap it all up in a completely unfair and asinine analysis of the group.

First off...The point comparing to Solich/Football and championship success makes absolutely zero sense. You MUST have a great MAC record to obtain a football championship. If Basketball were like football, Groce never would have even had a chance to play for a conference title, let alone play in the NCAA tourney. So you kind of used your own argument to make your point look even more dumb than it is.

I can't decide which post is stupider, this one or the one you made after Akron won a play-in round game last March gushing about Groce, then retreating into the woods after a quarterfinal loss a couple days later.

Basically no one tore down Groce for the sake of tearing him down. Basically everyone who said anything was in response to your 7 year hard-on for him. Basically everyone appreciates John Groce and his time at Ohio. All we did was point out how fragile those 2 runs were and how many moments could have derailed them...and how stripping that away absolutely undeniably leaves a very underwhelming resume. Or that he has had very poor success in his 7 seasons elsewhere. None of this is untrue. Quit acting like we said "Groce sucks Saul rocks!" for no reason. We're just sick of you constantly acting like he is a God who can do no wrong. John Groce himself would question your accuracy on the why you frame this stuff. He's gone. Let it go.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/4/2019 12:52 PM
catfan28 wrote:expand_more
Landing a couple good players (Ndour, Campbell) doesn't make you a good recruiter. A good recruiter is able to bring in athletes that comprise a TEAM that will play well together and win games. I could care less about the individual talent of 1-2 guys. Was Jim Christian successful in building such a team? Not even close. Things were crumbling as he left. And he was only here 2 years!
His teams at Ohio won 24 and 25 games respectively while incorporating a new style of play and blending players recruited by the Groce regime with players he recruited. We never saw what he would have done with a team comprised of all of his guys, or how that would have impacted his ability to build a team. Switching horses mid-stream's a challenge for all programs. Hard for me to conclude he was a failure in this regard given the complexity of the task.

catfan28 wrote:expand_more
By any objective measure, both of Schaus' hires after Groce have been failures. They may have been good hires "on paper", but Schaus gets paid the big bucks to make hires that will work - not just those that look good to folks like us. IMO, he ignored the most important thing with any hire: fit.
I'm not sure you're being all that objective. The best we can expect of Schaus is to make the best decision possible with the information he had available at the time. In retrospect, it's easy to say both hires have been failures. But assuming ill intention on Christian's part isn't being truly objective. Jim Christian may well have had every intention of staying here long term and been completely caught off guard by the BC offer. We don't know. Being objective involves acknowledging what we don't know, not assuming you know JC's intentions and blaming the outcome on Schaus.

catfan28 wrote:expand_more
As for Saul, Schaus picked him because of one win in the NCAA Tournament. If NDSU doesn't upset Oklahoma, no way Saul is lured in our direction. Saul inherited a solid program at NDSU, and was able to keep things going at a high level. I think Saul is more of a "maintainer" than a "builder". And, while many on the outside didn't see it, our program needed a "build" after the JC departure and the tinder box of personalities he left behind.
This feels right to me, but also something that's really easy to see in retrospect. The Saul hire hasn't worked. I haven't seen anybody here arguing otherwise.

catfan28 wrote:expand_more
Schaus overplayed his hand twice. Once Groce left, he wanted a "splash" hire of a guy with tons of HC experience who had won in the MAC. He got it, but didn't think about the long-term consequences.
Again, this is a huge over simplification based on a giant assumption. You don't get to call for objectivity and assume details that support your case.

catfan28 wrote:expand_more
Going to the other end of the spectrum, Saul's hire was made primarily with longevity in mind. He wanted someone who would stay a while and didn't have the "itch" to jump to the next job. Mission accomplished - but he got a rather average coach who is better left to maintain, not build.
I think what you're describing is the core challenge that faces OU athletics in general. Successful coaches will leave, mediocre ones wont. And as a result, when a program's had some success, our AD will have to make a lot of hiring decisions, and hiring decisions are hard.
giacomo
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Posted: 2/4/2019 1:27 PM
We had gotten back into the game until they made a run while hitting several threes in a row. We lack a consistent outside shooter right now and Carter needs some help with the scoring load. It would also help if Taylor would look at the basket more when he has the ball down low and could get some put backs and power move points.
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Posted: 2/4/2019 1:59 PM
Jim Christian was involved in a fistfight with one of his assistants during a practice, in front of players.

Maurice N'Dour claimed Christian and/or said assistant offered him $50k to come to Athens.

His two team leaders - DJ and Walt Offutt - quit on him in important games.

Clearly that hire was a failure.
Last Edited: 2/4/2019 4:04:35 PM by SBH
GoCats105
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Posted: 2/4/2019 2:26 PM
catfan28 wrote:expand_more
Huh?

Nothing you said logically follows what I said. Which is true of 80% of your posts here. You have a strong opinion you want to shout about repeatedly, and you assume everybody else is addressing the single point you make ad nauseam, when in actuality, the people around you are trying to have a nuanced conversation about many different things at once.

I know this is super complicated, but it's possible to say positive things about players that Jim Christian recruited without it defining Jim Christian's tenure here. Maurice N'Dour and Tony Campbell were very good players. I don't think we can really attack Christian's recruiting given those successes in such a short period of time.

Does that make Christian's tenure here a success? Nope. Does it mean other critiques of him are warrantless? Nope. Does it have anything at all to do with Dan Dakich? Not even a little bit.

On the other hand, are you completely incapable of rational discussion when it comes to OU coaches who succeeded John Groce? Yep.
Landing a couple good players (Ndour, Campbell) doesn't make you a good recruiter. A good recruiter is able to bring in athletes that comprise a TEAM that will play well together and win games. I could care less about the individual talent of 1-2 guys. Was Jim Christian successful in building such a team? Not even close. Things were crumbling as he left. And he was only here 2 years!

By any objective measure, both of Schaus' hires after Groce have been failures. They may have been good hires "on paper", but Schaus gets paid the big bucks to make hires that will work - not just those that look good to folks like us. IMO, he ignored the most important thing with any hire: fit.

He clearly misread Christian's intentions. Rather than "coming home" to the MAC, he was looking to escape a bad spot at TCU (as they moved up to the Big 12) and use our existing talent to parlay into a big-money P5 job. Kudos to JC for making it work.

As for Saul, Schaus picked him because of one win in the NCAA Tournament. If NDSU doesn't upset Oklahoma, no way Saul is lured in our direction. Saul inherited a solid program at NDSU, and was able to keep things going at a high level. I think Saul is more of a "maintainer" than a "builder". And, while many on the outside didn't see it, our program needed a "build" after the JC departure and the tinder box of personalities he left behind.

Schaus overplayed his hand twice. Once Groce left, he wanted a "splash" hire of a guy with tons of HC experience who had won in the MAC. He got it, but didn't think about the long-term consequences. Going to the other end of the spectrum, Saul's hire was made primarily with longevity in mind. He wanted someone who would stay a while and didn't have the "itch" to jump to the next job. Mission accomplished - but he got a rather average coach who is better left to maintain, not build.

Where do we go from here? Who knows. I expect Schaus will go back to more of the Christian mold - hiring a proven winner, maybe a guy fired or on the downside from a bigger program. The issue this time around will be the lack of support from Cutler Hall, and relatively lack of funding too.
This is a good take.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/4/2019 3:14 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
. . . So you kind of used your own argument to make your point look even more dumb than it is. . . .
If I had a $100 for every time I've seen this debate tactic used on BA, I'd be a rich man and could endow our basketball program and end all our financial woes! ;-)
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Posted: 2/4/2019 11:30 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Actual things I've read about John Groce through the years on this site.

"John Groce is overrated."
"John Groce owes his career to Armon Bassett."
"John Groce just got lucky in March...that's all."
"John Groce got a great draw facing Michigan and South Florida in the NCAA Tournament."
"I'd rather have a coach that wins regular season MAC Championships than a coach who hung a Sweet 16 banner."
"The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity."

However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.

February 2, 2019
-----------------

Year 2 of Groce Akron Era 65
Year 5 of Saul Ohio Era 53
(And if you watched the game...you know Akron could have won this by 30 if it wanted too)

I guess it's only fitting that on the most anticipated day of the home hoops schedule this season that Groce drops the hammer on Saul. Dear lord almighty I have never, ever been more embarrassed to be an Ohio Bobcats basketball fan. That was atrocious today. March 17th can't get here soon enough.
And JC has been rumored to be out at BC, after destroying what JG left for him at OU. What would you think of this: bring Groce back to Athens?!!!!
Hahahaha. Christian "destroyed" what Groce left? Christian won 74% of MAC games here; Groce 53%. We all acknowledge Groce had one good year here. Heck, after 3 years in Athens he was 23- 25 in MAC games (7-9, 7-9, 9-7). His 4 years here were 6th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in conference play; Christian was 1st and 3rd. Christian followed Groce's 9-7 year with 14-2. That is destroying things? And you want to bring him back? Based on what? His 36% winning percentage in MAC games at Akron? Would he bring thugs who get into fights also?
Wait a minute Jerry....we aren't allowed to discuss an Ohio player shooting 27% from the field in nine MAC games. A player that his own coach referenced in a post-game interview following a terrible team performance, but you just called some 19-21 year old Akron players...thugs. Alrighty then.
Sounds like a Gman post, where it’s ok to accuse an Akron player of academic fraud with zero proof, by do not criticize the 2:1 turnover to assist ratio 🤦🏼‍♂️
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Posted: 2/7/2019 1:37 AM
For what it’s worth:

What I remember from the Groce years:

Screaming “No Chance” at Andy Katz after beating Georgetown and then revealing in him crying about it on ESPN

Beating Michigan and wondering out loud if they knew which ‘Ohio’ they were playing yet.

Beating USF in the round of 32 followed by Mid-Majority paint their website hunter green and claiming ‘we’re all Bobcats now’ on their title page.

Coming within a missed free-throw(!!) of beating UNC in regulation after an amazing comeback in the second half and being congratulated by people in a sports bar in Orlando for MY team’s gutty performance.

What I remember from the Christian years:

Flaming out in the MAC Championship Game

Flaming out in the NIT

N’dour could speak 4 languages

Wondering if Boston College was really a better job.

What I remember from the Saul years:

There have been a lot of injuries.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/7/2019 10:53 AM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
For what it’s worth:

What I remember from the Groce years:

Screaming “No Chance” at Andy Katz after beating Georgetown and then revealing in him crying about it on ESPN

Beating Michigan and wondering out loud if they knew which ‘Ohio’ they were playing yet.

Beating USF in the round of 32 followed by Mid-Majority paint their website hunter green and claiming ‘we’re all Bobcats now’ on their title page.

Coming within a missed free-throw(!!) of beating UNC in regulation after an amazing comeback in the second half and being congratulated by people in a sports bar in Orlando for MY team’s gutty performance.

What I remember from the Christian years:

Flaming out in the MAC Championship Game

Flaming out in the NIT

N’dour could speak 4 languages

Wondering if Boston College was really a better job.

What I remember from the Saul years:

There have been a lot of injuries.
+1 This is an excellent summary!
oldkatz
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Posted: 2/7/2019 11:01 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
For what it’s worth:

What I remember from the Groce years:

Screaming “No Chance” at Andy Katz after beating Georgetown and then revealing in him crying about it on ESPN

Beating Michigan and wondering out loud if they knew which ‘Ohio’ they were playing yet.

Beating USF in the round of 32 followed by Mid-Majority paint their website hunter green and claiming ‘we’re all Bobcats now’ on their title page.

Coming within a missed free-throw(!!) of beating UNC in regulation after an amazing comeback in the second half and being congratulated by people in a sports bar in Orlando for MY team’s gutty performance.

What I remember from the Christian years:

Flaming out in the MAC Championship Game

Flaming out in the NIT

N’dour could speak 4 languages

Wondering if Boston College was really a better job.

What I remember from the Saul years:

There have been a lot of injuries.
+1 This is an excellent summary!

I almost agree with the oil can man; good summary.
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Posted: 2/7/2019 1:23 PM
We'll see what Groce Ball can do with the rest of this season. After beating us, Akron was 5-3 in the MAC, against the lower 2/3 of the league. Now seven of Akron's last ten games are against the top four teams in the league. They started with a loss at Toledo to drop to 5-4. Remaining are home-and-homes vs Kent, Buffalo and BG, plus a trip to Muncie and home games vs Fiami (who they lost to) and Ohio. They'll have their work cut out for them just to get a first round home game.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 2/7/2019 2:02 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
For what it’s worth:

What I remember from the Groce years:

Screaming “No Chance” at Andy Katz after beating Georgetown and then revealing in him crying about it on ESPN

Beating Michigan and wondering out loud if they knew which ‘Ohio’ they were playing yet.

Beating USF in the round of 32 followed by Mid-Majority paint their website hunter green and claiming ‘we’re all Bobcats now’ on their title page.

Coming within a missed free-throw(!!) of beating UNC in regulation after an amazing comeback in the second half and being congratulated by people in a sports bar in Orlando for MY team’s gutty performance.

What I remember from the Christian years:

Flaming out in the MAC Championship Game

Flaming out in the NIT

N’dour could speak 4 languages

Wondering if Boston College was really a better job.

What I remember from the Saul years:

There have been a lot of injuries.
+1 This is an excellent summary!
It is a nice summary...for fans that only pay attention in March.
FearLeon
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Posted: 2/7/2019 2:15 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
For what it’s worth:

What I remember from the Groce years:

Screaming “No Chance” at Andy Katz after beating Georgetown and then revealing in him crying about it on ESPN

Beating Michigan and wondering out loud if they knew which ‘Ohio’ they were playing yet.

Beating USF in the round of 32 followed by Mid-Majority paint their website hunter green and claiming ‘we’re all Bobcats now’ on their title page.

Coming within a missed free-throw(!!) of beating UNC in regulation after an amazing comeback in the second half and being congratulated by people in a sports bar in Orlando for MY team’s gutty performance.

What I remember from the Christian years:

Flaming out in the MAC Championship Game

Flaming out in the NIT

N’dour could speak 4 languages

Wondering if Boston College was really a better job.

What I remember from the Saul years:

There have been a lot of injuries.
+1 This is an excellent summary!
It is a nice summary...for fans that only pay attention in March.
That works for me. I like those banners that Groce hung in the Convo. You can have Saul's body of work over the past five years...I'll pass on that.
ohiocatfan1
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Posted: 2/7/2019 2:48 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
For what it’s worth:

What I remember from the Groce years:

Screaming “No Chance” at Andy Katz after beating Georgetown and then revealing in him crying about it on ESPN

Beating Michigan and wondering out loud if they knew which ‘Ohio’ they were playing yet.

Beating USF in the round of 32 followed by Mid-Majority paint their website hunter green and claiming ‘we’re all Bobcats now’ on their title page.

Coming within a missed free-throw(!!) of beating UNC in regulation after an amazing comeback in the second half and being congratulated by people in a sports bar in Orlando for MY team’s gutty performance.

What I remember from the Christian years:

Flaming out in the MAC Championship Game

Flaming out in the NIT

N’dour could speak 4 languages

Wondering if Boston College was really a better job.

What I remember from the Saul years:

There have been a lot of injuries.
+1 This is an excellent summary!
It is a nice summary...for fans that only pay attention in March.
That works for me. I like those banners that Groce hung in the Convo. You can have Saul's body of work over the past five years...I'll pass on that.
I agree. The excitement has left the building. It started leaving the program 6 years ago. Now there is none left. Coach Phillips tenure has been terribly disappointing to say the least.
bobcat2nc
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Posted: 2/7/2019 4:33 PM
ohiocatfan1 wrote:expand_more
For what it’s worth:

What I remember from the Groce years:

Screaming “No Chance” at Andy Katz after beating Georgetown and then revealing in him crying about it on ESPN

Beating Michigan and wondering out loud if they knew which ‘Ohio’ they were playing yet.

Beating USF in the round of 32 followed by Mid-Majority paint their website hunter green and claiming ‘we’re all Bobcats now’ on their title page.

Coming within a missed free-throw(!!) of beating UNC in regulation after an amazing comeback in the second half and being congratulated by people in a sports bar in Orlando for MY team’s gutty performance.

What I remember from the Christian years:

Flaming out in the MAC Championship Game

Flaming out in the NIT

N’dour could speak 4 languages

Wondering if Boston College was really a better job.

What I remember from the Saul years:

There have been a lot of injuries.
+1 This is an excellent summary!
It is a nice summary...for fans that only pay attention in March.
That works for me. I like those banners that Groce hung in the Convo. You can have Saul's body of work over the past five years...I'll pass on that.
I agree. The excitement has left the building. It started leaving the program 6 years ago. Now there is none left. Coach Phillips tenure has been terribly disappointing to say the least.
I loved the run at NCAA with the near win against UNC. I still wonder why JC left after that run. If another run at the NCAA was a sure thing why not stay one more year? Hecwouldn’t had To settle for Illinois. If he was the coach that made all the moving parts work then why not do what it would take to keep him here. Not defending JC’s coaching style or results but he was here because JG left- maybe he had a gut feeling that it was a slim chance for a MAC team to do something magical 2 years in a row.
OrlandoCat
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Posted: 2/7/2019 5:08 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
It is a nice summary...for fans that only pay attention in March.
Meh...more like fans that think March is what’s important. Neither the college nor NBA regular season are built to really matter a whole lot, if they WERE important, regular season champions would automatically make the NCAA’s which they don’t.

Also, MAC games on a random Tuesday are not something you can regularly see in Orlando.

I was a cheerleader during my time at OU, so I was at every home game (save one my senior year when I came down with pneumonia). So again FWIW:

What I remember about the O’shea Years:

The crowd being so rowdy during a home game against Akron that the refs threatened a technical foul if we didn’t settle down - which of course incited the crowd even further.

TOS to any school not named Ohio University

Defending the castle

This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ROtK_cetk
(If you look really close you can see me!!)

The magical tourney run, beating both Kent and Miami

18 point leads with 16 minutes to go? No problem

Watching Fears do a back flip late in the second half against Buffalo after playing every minute of the game up to that point

Something about a Leon Williams tip-in (I was fortunate to be mere feet from the basket when it went in)

A huge comeback against Florida that fell short - the next year that same Florida team won the National Championship

Being named the ‘it’ team by ESPN, just to fall flat the next year

Bobo the circus monkey and his ability to win 20 games in Athens
Last Edited: 2/7/2019 5:13:43 PM by OrlandoCat
OU_Country
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Posted: 2/7/2019 5:15 PM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
It is a nice summary...for fans that only pay attention in March.
Meh...more like fans that think March is what’s important. Neither the college nor NBA regular season are built to really matter a whole lot, if they WERE important, regular season champions would automatically make the NCAA’s which they don’t.

Also, MAC games on a random Tuesday are not something you can regularly see in Orlando.

I was a cheerleader during my time at OU, so I was at every home game (save one my senior year when I came down with pneumonia). So again FWIW:

What I remember about the O’shea Years:

The crowd being so rowdy during a home game against Akron that the refs threatened a technical foul if we didn’t settle down - which of course incited the crowd even further.

TOS to any school not named Ohio University

Defending the castle

This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ROtK_cetk

The magical tourney run, beating both Kent and Miami

18 point leads with 16 minutes to go? No problem

Watching Fears do a back flip late in the second half against Buffalo after playing every minute of the game up to that point

Something about a Leon Williams tip-in (I was fortunate to be mere feet from the basket when it went in)

A huge comeback against Florida that fell short - the next year that same Florida team won the National Championship

Being named the ‘it’ team by ESPN, just to fall flat the next year
The key distinction here is saying "March matters more". March is not the only thing that matters. In my opinion, in one bid conferences, it's pretty ridiculous to say it's all that matters because it's a total crap shoot to even get there. For anyone who is a regular on this board, it's pretty obvious that more than just March is important for most of us.

But I get it - I don't start giving a darn about the CBJ until about a month before the playoffs. Some are that way towards March Madness. I don't get it, but I acknowledge that's the way it is for the bandwagon fans of college basketball.
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Posted: 2/7/2019 6:24 PM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
For what it’s worth:

What I remember from the Groce years:

Screaming “No Chance” at Andy Katz after beating Georgetown and then revealing in him crying about it on ESPN

Beating Michigan and wondering out loud if they knew which ‘Ohio’ they were playing yet.

Beating USF in the round of 32 followed by Mid-Majority paint their website hunter green and claiming ‘we’re all Bobcats now’ on their title page.

Coming within a missed free-throw(!!) of beating UNC in regulation after an amazing comeback in the second half and being congratulated by people in a sports bar in Orlando for MY team’s gutty performance.

What I remember from the Christian years:

Flaming out in the MAC Championship Game

Flaming out in the NIT

N’dour could speak 4 languages

Wondering if Boston College was really a better job.

What I remember from the Saul years:

There have been a lot of injuries.
We missed a lot here.

Groce

-The Mo Pearson incident

-Armon Bassett's arrest

-Stevie Fresssshhhhhhhhhhhh


Christian

-Getting blown out by Belmont

-Ivo Baltic's non-existence


Saul

-Tony Campbell winning MAC POTY

-Jaaron Simmons leaving

-Ryan Taylor leaving

-Saul's wife beating cancer
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/7/2019 9:36 PM
To be fair OrlandoCat's original post cited what he remembered best about each era of Bobcat basketball, not what he said was most important. I must confess those are the kinds of things that I too remember most. It's not that the regular season is ignored. I attend nearly every home game and root as hard as I can. But, in football they say, "What they'll remember is November." In basketball, it's, "What they remember is March." While not as alliterative, it's just as true, IMHO.
Last Edited: 2/7/2019 10:35:52 PM by OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/7/2019 9:45 PM
I always get a kick out of the fanatics that feel they have earned the right to dictate how others should be consuming their sports. Newsflash, people gain heightened interest in college basketball in March and the Dance.
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Posted: 2/8/2019 6:46 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . in football they say, "What they'll remember is November." In basketball, it's, "What they remember is March." While not as alliterative, it's just as true, IMHO.
Both sayings are equally alliterative.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/8/2019 10:10 AM

bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
. . . in football they say, "What they'll remember is November." In basketball, it's, "What they remember is March." While not as alliterative, it's just as true, IMHO.


Both sayings are equally alliterative. 

I'm very curious what accent you speak with! smiley wink cheeky

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Posted: 2/9/2019 8:22 AM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
We'll see what Groce Ball can do with the rest of this season. After beating us, Akron was 5-3 in the MAC, against the lower 2/3 of the league. Now seven of Akron's last ten games are against the top four teams in the league. They started with a loss at Toledo to drop to 5-4. Remaining are home-and-homes vs Kent, Buffalo and BG, plus a trip to Muncie and home games vs Fiami (who they lost to) and Ohio. They'll have their work cut out for them just to get a first round home game.
Kent State 53
Akron 72
Last Edited: 2/9/2019 8:22:57 AM by FearLeon
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Posted: 2/9/2019 11:57 AM
I watched the Akron-Kent game last night. Man can Akron defend. If they ever put it all together on the offensive side, like they did last night in the 2nd half, they're going to be a really tough out and make some noise in the conference tournament.
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Posted: 2/9/2019 12:03 PM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
I watched the Akron-Kent game last night. Man can Akron defend. If they ever put it all together on the offensive side, like they did last night in the 2nd half, they're going to be a really tough out and make some noise in the conference tournament.
Careful with Groce praise here Graff. Remember, Groce can't coach and he got lucky at Ohio with March success.
Last Edited: 2/9/2019 12:04:21 PM by FearLeon
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Posted: 2/9/2019 1:59 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
We'll see what Groce Ball can do with the rest of this season. After beating us, Akron was 5-3 in the MAC, against the lower 2/3 of the league. Now seven of Akron's last ten games are against the top four teams in the league. They started with a loss at Toledo to drop to 5-4. Remaining are home-and-homes vs Kent, Buffalo and BG, plus a trip to Muncie and home games vs Fiami (who they lost to) and Ohio. They'll have their work cut out for them just to get a first round home game.
Kent State 53
Akron 72
Why the post? It isn't March yet--not even late February.
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Posted: 2/9/2019 2:46 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
I watched the Akron-Kent game last night. Man can Akron defend. If they ever put it all together on the offensive side, like they did last night in the 2nd half, they're going to be a really tough out and make some noise in the conference tournament.
Careful with Groce praise here Graff. Remember, Groce can't coach and he got lucky at Ohio with March success.
And he has a blistering all time record of 46- 46 in the super tough MAC.

Maybe Duke will hire him to replace Coach K down the road .. lol
FearLeon
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Posted: 2/9/2019 11:07 PM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
I watched the Akron-Kent game last night. Man can Akron defend. If they ever put it all together on the offensive side, like they did last night in the 2nd half, they're going to be a really tough out and make some noise in the conference tournament.
Careful with Groce praise here Graff. Remember, Groce can't coach and he got lucky at Ohio with March success.
And he has a blistering all time record of 46- 46 in the super tough MAC.

Maybe Duke will hire him to replace Coach K down the road .. lol

We get it Jerry....Groce was and is sub-par in your eyes. I hope you've enjoyed all the participation ribbons and trophies during the last 5 years of #SaulBall
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Posted: 2/9/2019 11:14 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
I watched the Akron-Kent game last night. Man can Akron defend. If they ever put it all together on the offensive side, like they did last night in the 2nd half, they're going to be a really tough out and make some noise in the conference tournament.
Careful with Groce praise here Graff. Remember, Groce can't coach and he got lucky at Ohio with March success.
And he has a blistering all time record of 46- 46 in the super tough MAC.

Maybe Duke will hire him to replace Coach K down the road .. lol

We get it Jerry....Groce was and is sub-par in your eyes. I hope you've enjoyed all the participation ribbons and trophies during the last 5 years of #SaulBall
Haha. Sorry that FACTS get you so riled up. Deal with them.
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Posted: 2/9/2019 11:19 PM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
I watched the Akron-Kent game last night. Man can Akron defend. If they ever put it all together on the offensive side, like they did last night in the 2nd half, they're going to be a really tough out and make some noise in the conference tournament.
Careful with Groce praise here Graff. Remember, Groce can't coach and he got lucky at Ohio with March success.
And he has a blistering all time record of 46- 46 in the super tough MAC.

Maybe Duke will hire him to replace Coach K down the road .. lol

We get it Jerry....Groce was and is sub-par in your eyes. I hope you've enjoyed all the participation ribbons and trophies during the last 5 years of #SaulBall
Haha. Sorry that FACTS get you so riled up. Deal with them.
FACTS: Two Groce coached Ohio teams in four years made the NCAA Tournament and won NCAA Tourney games in each big dance appearance.

FACTS: Five #SaulBall coached Ohio led teams in five years made ZERO NCAA Tournaments.

I don't get riled up when it comes to this topic. I let the banners that Groce hung in the Convo speak for themselves. You can go back to counting your participation ribbons now.
Last Edited: 2/9/2019 11:44:55 PM by FearLeon
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Posted: 2/10/2019 1:29 AM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
Haha. Sorry that FACTS get you so riled up. Deal with them.
I’m sorry, do you actually prefer losing in the MAC semis over making it to the sweet 16?
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Posted: 2/10/2019 8:15 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
I watched the Akron-Kent game last night. Man can Akron defend. If they ever put it all together on the offensive side, like they did last night in the 2nd half, they're going to be a really tough out and make some noise in the conference tournament.
Careful with Groce praise here Graff. Remember, Groce can't coach and he got lucky at Ohio with March success.
Groce left us, we didnt fire him. It's not like we get to choose between the two coaches. This thread is just silly.
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Posted: 2/10/2019 10:13 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
I watched the Akron-Kent game last night. Man can Akron defend. If they ever put it all together on the offensive side, like they did last night in the 2nd half, they're going to be a really tough out and make some noise in the conference tournament.
Careful with Groce praise here Graff. Remember, Groce can't coach and he got lucky at Ohio with March success.
And he has a blistering all time record of 46- 46 in the super tough MAC.

Maybe Duke will hire him to replace Coach K down the road .. lol

We get it Jerry....Groce was and is sub-par in your eyes. I hope you've enjoyed all the participation ribbons and trophies during the last 5 years of #SaulBall
Haha. Sorry that FACTS get you so riled up. Deal with them.
FACTS: Two Groce coached Ohio teams in four years made the NCAA Tournament and won NCAA Tourney games in each big dance appearance.

FACTS: Five #SaulBall coached Ohio led teams in five years made ZERO NCAA Tournaments.

I don't get riled up when it comes to this topic. I let the banners that Groce hung in the Convo speak for themselves. You can go back to counting your participation ribbons now.
So Groce is NOT a 50% Winning coach in MAC games?

Further am I comparing Groce and Phillips? Nope. I'm trying to comprehend your obsession or hardon for Groce. He won a few games at the right time which everyone acknowledges. MAC dynasties are not built .. teams have some good years and then often revert to the mean. Follow the game long enough and you'll see how the conference works. You can have the last word but I do laugh at your posts often.
FearLeon
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Posted: 2/10/2019 10:41 AM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
I watched the Akron-Kent game last night. Man can Akron defend. If they ever put it all together on the offensive side, like they did last night in the 2nd half, they're going to be a really tough out and make some noise in the conference tournament.
Careful with Groce praise here Graff. Remember, Groce can't coach and he got lucky at Ohio with March success.
And he has a blistering all time record of 46- 46 in the super tough MAC.

Maybe Duke will hire him to replace Coach K down the road .. lol

We get it Jerry....Groce was and is sub-par in your eyes. I hope you've enjoyed all the participation ribbons and trophies during the last 5 years of #SaulBall
Haha. Sorry that FACTS get you so riled up. Deal with them.
FACTS: Two Groce coached Ohio teams in four years made the NCAA Tournament and won NCAA Tourney games in each big dance appearance.

FACTS: Five #SaulBall coached Ohio led teams in five years made ZERO NCAA Tournaments.

I don't get riled up when it comes to this topic. I let the banners that Groce hung in the Convo speak for themselves. You can go back to counting your participation ribbons now.
So Groce is NOT a 50% Winning coach in MAC games?

Further am I comparing Groce and Phillips? Nope. I'm trying to comprehend your obsession or hardon for Groce. He won a few games at the right time which everyone acknowledges. MAC dynasties are not built .. teams have some good years and then often revert to the mean. Follow the game long enough and you'll see how the conference works. You can have the last word but I do laugh at your posts often.
Jerry...been following the MAC game for a long, long time. I know how this conference works. Coaches in this league are remembered for NCAA Tourney last seconds shots by Robert Tatum or smacking Georgetown and Michigan in the face in the big dance and coming within one missed FT away from the Elite 8. Or a Buffalo team pounding Arizona in March. Kent State's run to the Elite 8. Or a Ball State squad coming within a whisker of stunning UNLV. Trust me, I know this league extremely well.

You have no idea how many people are laughing at you when you dismiss the Groce era so easily. You really should study up on MAC basketball more. And by the way....who said John Groce was the second coming of Coach K? I never said that and I don't believe anyone else on this board said it either. Again, study up on the league Jerry.
Last Edited: 2/10/2019 11:51:00 AM by FearLeon
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/10/2019 12:37 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
I watched the Akron-Kent game last night. Man can Akron defend. If they ever put it all together on the offensive side, like they did last night in the 2nd half, they're going to be a really tough out and make some noise in the conference tournament.
Careful with Groce praise here Graff. Remember, Groce can't coach and he got lucky at Ohio with March success.
And he has a blistering all time record of 46- 46 in the super tough MAC.

Maybe Duke will hire him to replace Coach K down the road .. lol

We get it Jerry....Groce was and is sub-par in your eyes. I hope you've enjoyed all the participation ribbons and trophies during the last 5 years of #SaulBall
Haha. Sorry that FACTS get you so riled up. Deal with them.
FACTS: Two Groce coached Ohio teams in four years made the NCAA Tournament and won NCAA Tourney games in each big dance appearance.

FACTS: Five #SaulBall coached Ohio led teams in five years made ZERO NCAA Tournaments.

I don't get riled up when it comes to this topic. I let the banners that Groce hung in the Convo speak for themselves. You can go back to counting your participation ribbons now.
So Groce is NOT a 50% Winning coach in MAC games?

Further am I comparing Groce and Phillips? Nope. I'm trying to comprehend your obsession or hardon for Groce. He won a few games at the right time which everyone acknowledges. MAC dynasties are not built .. teams have some good years and then often revert to the mean. Follow the game long enough and you'll see how the conference works. You can have the last word but I do laugh at your posts often.
Jerry...been following the MAC game for a long, long time. I know how this conference works. Coaches in this league are remembered for NCAA Tourney last seconds shots by Robert Tatum or smacking Georgetown and Michigan in the face in the big dance and coming within one missed FT away from the Elite 8. Or a Buffalo team pounding Arizona in March. Kent State's run to the Elite 8. Or a Ball State squad coming within a whisker of stunning UNLV. Trust me, I know this league extremely well.

You have no idea how many people are laughing at you when you dismiss the Groce era so easily. You really should study up on MAC basketball more. And by the way....who said John Groce was the second coming of Coach K? I never said that and I don't believe anyone else on this board said it either. Again, study up on the league Jerry.
I don't think you realize who people here are laughing at. Your inability to turn the page on the Groce era is bordering on pathetic, my man. We won some games in March. It was a lot of fun. But that was a long time ago and Groce left Ohio seven years ago. At this point, you're basically the 25 year old dude who is still obsessed with the girlfriend that broke up with him senior year of high school.

You gotta move on, man. John Groce did a long, long time ago. He's not coming back.
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Posted: 2/10/2019 1:15 PM
John Groce is gone. He's not coming back. I'm pretty sure everybody (aside from a few in the coaches thread) fully understand that.

I don't necessarily want John Groce back.

Boy, I sure would take his teams, program and success back in a heartbeat though.

Let's hope our next coach is the next/new and improved John Groce.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/10/2019 3:10 PM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
. . .Let's hope our next coach is the next/new and improved John Groce.
Me like this idea . . . the new improve John Groce. Would that be one who wins during the regular season as well as during tournament time? That's the man I'm after!
catfan28
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Posted: 2/10/2019 3:54 PM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
John Groce is gone. He's not coming back. I'm pretty sure everybody (aside from a few in the coaches thread) fully understand that.
While his return may be "unlikely", I don't see it as pie-in-the-sky fantasy. There's a lot of examples where a guy like Groce comes back to the program where they got their start.

Would we may able to make a compelling offer to get him to leave Akron? Who knows. But if I were creating Vegas odds on our next head coach, he's likely in the top 5 candidates on the betting line.

A creative, forward-looking athletic director would honestly make Groce his first call. It would be a way to immediately invigorate life to this rather moribund program. IMO, Schaus may have a bit too much pride and/or angst against JG to make it happen. But you'd be hard pressed to argue that it isn't a savvy move.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/10/2019 4:40 PM
catfan28 wrote:expand_more
John Groce is gone. He's not coming back. I'm pretty sure everybody (aside from a few in the coaches thread) fully understand that.
While his return may be "unlikely", I don't see it as pie-in-the-sky fantasy. There's a lot of examples where a guy like Groce comes back to the program where they got their start.

Would we may able to make a compelling offer to get him to leave Akron? Who knows. But if I were creating Vegas odds on our next head coach, he's likely in the top 5 candidates on the betting line.

A creative, forward-looking athletic director would honestly make Groce his first call. It would be a way to immediately invigorate life to this rather moribund program. IMO, Schaus may have a bit too much pride and/or angst against JG to make it happen. But you'd be hard pressed to argue that it isn't a savvy move.
I think it's absolutely pie-in-the-sky and the fact that so many people here think it's possible speaks to how delusional folks here can be about what and where our program is. It's not as delusional as folks here calling for us to hire Thad Matta or Tommy Amaker, but it's not that far off, either.

How would that call go?

"Hey, John, how are things? Listen, the reason I'm calling is that I was wondering if you wanted to leave two years into the rebuilding situation you took over at Akron to start in on a three or four year rebuild here in Athens.

What's that? Oh, the pay? Yeah, it's gonna be a bit less than you're making at Akron. Or, you know, maybe more than a bit less. New President and all. What can you do?

What do we offer that Akron doesn't? Great question, I'm glad you asked. For one thing, our roster is completely bereft of talent. You know how you're bringing back basically your entire team next season and how that team's better than ours? Well good news, in Athens you get a clean slate. For another, we give your family an amazing opportunity to move again. I know how you must love that.

But finally, and most importantly, we can offer you a job for life. The same way it was Saul's job for life. The job's yours forever, unless you don't make the tournament in the first 5 years, then the fanbase will start calling for your head and comparing you to the John Groce of yore. That John Groce was amazing. Have you ever met him?

Anyhow, what do you think, should I send a car to bring you to the airport? Hello? Hello?"

We really have to move on from John Groce. His tenure here provides a solid blueprint for how we should approach this coaching search, but the fact that people can't move past a Sweet 16 appearance 7 years ago is a problem. It causes people to lose sight of the reality of where things actually stand now and the work and time it will take to get back there.
Last Edited: 2/10/2019 4:45:13 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
catfan28
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Posted: 2/10/2019 4:57 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I think it's absolutely pie-in-the-sky and the fact that so many people here think it's possible speaks to how delusional folks here can be about what and where our program is. It's not as delusional as folks here calling for us to hire Thad Matta or Tommy Amaker, but it's not that far off, either.
The only things making it delusional are:
1. Schaus' lack of creativity and/or foolish pride
2. Inability to offer a competitive salary

The fact that our new administration has us in a position that we can't offer a competitive salary when compared to Akron is sad. They are literally on the verge of bankruptcy as an institution. Yet, here we are.
FearLeon
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Posted: 2/10/2019 5:13 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
John Groce is gone. He's not coming back. I'm pretty sure everybody (aside from a few in the coaches thread) fully understand that.
While his return may be "unlikely", I don't see it as pie-in-the-sky fantasy. There's a lot of examples where a guy like Groce comes back to the program where they got their start.

Would we may able to make a compelling offer to get him to leave Akron? Who knows. But if I were creating Vegas odds on our next head coach, he's likely in the top 5 candidates on the betting line.

A creative, forward-looking athletic director would honestly make Groce his first call. It would be a way to immediately invigorate life to this rather moribund program. IMO, Schaus may have a bit too much pride and/or angst against JG to make it happen. But you'd be hard pressed to argue that it isn't a savvy move.


We really have to move on from John Groce. His tenure here provides a solid blueprint for how we should approach this coaching search, but the fact that people can't move past a Sweet 16 appearance 7 years ago is a problem. It causes people to lose sight of the reality of where things actually stand now and the work and time it will take to get back there.
John Groce coming back to Ohio is ludicrous. I'm not in that camp at all. Would never happen in a million years. That isn't my point with my posts. I just laugh at the folks who continue to undervalue what Groce accomplished at Ohio....case closed..end of story. I moved on from JG seven years ago when he left, but I'll always respect what he pulled off in four short years at Ohio. Since then, Schaus has whiffed on two hires. One coach the players couldn't stand....Christian......and the other coach...Phillips....who was in way over his head and underestimated what he needed to recruit player wise in this league to compete. And now he has officially lost the team. Sorry, one full week to prepare for Miami and you lose by 20 points? Sure looks like a team full of players that can't wait for the season to end soon.
Last Edited: 2/10/2019 5:17:41 PM by FearLeon
catfan28
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Posted: 2/10/2019 5:56 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
John Groce coming back to Ohio is ludicrous. I'm not in that camp at all. Would never happen in a million years.
The amount of coaches that reprise their roles at "lower" institutions after trying to move "up" is staggering. I'm puzzled as to why the concept seems so ludicrous. This article is football-specific, but it gets the point across. Many similar examples in the hoops world too: https://www.theuconnblog.com/2017/1/3/14150946/the-recent...

A forward-looking AD and president (neither of which we have) offers JG $700K with a 6 year deal to come back. My bet is that he would strongly consider it.

Will it happen? Doubt it. But as I said, he'd be near the top of my betting line right now vs. an otherwise wide-open field.
Last Edited: 2/10/2019 5:57:20 PM by catfan28
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Posted: 2/10/2019 6:03 PM
It's obviously time for the big pocket guys and gals here on BA to step to the plate and make Groce 2.0 happen. Money talks. And, while you're at it, send some extra millions for BTC's 35,000 seat stadium.
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Posted: 2/10/2019 6:26 PM
catfan28 wrote:expand_more
John Groce coming back to Ohio is ludicrous. I'm not in that camp at all. Would never happen in a million years.
The amount of coaches that reprise their roles at "lower" institutions after trying to move "up" is staggering. I'm puzzled as to why the concept seems so ludicrous. This article is football-specific, but it gets the point across. Many similar examples in the hoops world too: https://www.theuconnblog.com/2017/1/3/14150946/the-recent...

A forward-looking AD and president (neither of which we have) offers JG $700K with a 6 year deal to come back. My bet is that he would strongly consider it.

Will it happen? Doubt it. But as I said, he'd be near the top of my betting line right now vs. an otherwise wide-open field.
It's ludicrous because Groce is already reprising his career at Akron, who is paying him more than we will, and is better positioned to win soon.


How many of the coaches cited returned to a school from another school in the same conference?
Last Edited: 2/10/2019 6:26:59 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/10/2019 6:45 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . in football they say, "What they'll remember is November." In basketball, it's, "What they remember is March." While not as alliterative, it's just as true, IMHO.


Both sayings are equally alliterative.

I'm very curious what accent you speak with!
Not sure what my accent has to do with alliteration. Correct me if I'm wrong OCF, and you can ask your wife for help if necessary, but isn't alliteration the use of the same beginning sound for consecutive words?

If so, does "A November to remember" display any alliteration? Rhymes, yes. Alliteration, no. "What they remember in March" has no rhyming nor alliteration. Therefore, both saying are equally alliterative.
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Posted: 2/10/2019 7:07 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
. . . in football they say, "What they'll remember is November." In basketball, it's, "What they remember is March." While not as alliterative, it's just as true, IMHO.


Both sayings are equally alliterative.

I'm very curious what accent you speak with!
Not sure what my accent has to do with alliteration. Correct me if I'm wrong OCF, and you can ask your wife for help if necessary, but isn't alliteration the use of the same beginning sound for consecutive words?

If so, does "A November to remember" display any alliteration? Rhymes, yes. Alliteration, no. "What they remember in March" has no rhyming nor alliteration. Therefore, both saying are equally alliterative.
My bad! You are absolute correct, Sir! I was typing alliteration and thinking rhyme. So, I'm going to blame my fingers rather than my brain. :-)
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Posted: 2/11/2019 7:39 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
I watched the Akron-Kent game last night. Man can Akron defend. If they ever put it all together on the offensive side, like they did last night in the 2nd half, they're going to be a really tough out and make some noise in the conference tournament.
Careful with Groce praise here Graff. Remember, Groce can't coach and he got lucky at Ohio with March success.
And he has a blistering all time record of 46- 46 in the super tough MAC.

Maybe Duke will hire him to replace Coach K down the road .. lol

We get it Jerry....Groce was and is sub-par in your eyes. I hope you've enjoyed all the participation ribbons and trophies during the last 5 years of #SaulBall
Haha. Sorry that FACTS get you so riled up. Deal with them.
FACTS: Two Groce coached Ohio teams in four years made the NCAA Tournament and won NCAA Tourney games in each big dance appearance.

FACTS: Five #SaulBall coached Ohio led teams in five years made ZERO NCAA Tournaments.

I don't get riled up when it comes to this topic. I let the banners that Groce hung in the Convo speak for themselves. You can go back to counting your participation ribbons now.
So Groce is NOT a 50% Winning coach in MAC games?

Further am I comparing Groce and Phillips? Nope. I'm trying to comprehend your obsession or hardon for Groce. He won a few games at the right time which everyone acknowledges. MAC dynasties are not built .. teams have some good years and then often revert to the mean. Follow the game long enough and you'll see how the conference works. You can have the last word but I do laugh at your posts often.
Jerry...been following the MAC game for a long, long time. I know how this conference works. Coaches in this league are remembered for NCAA Tourney last seconds shots by Robert Tatum or smacking Georgetown and Michigan in the face in the big dance and coming within one missed FT away from the Elite 8. Or a Buffalo team pounding Arizona in March. Kent State's run to the Elite 8. Or a Ball State squad coming within a whisker of stunning UNLV. Trust me, I know this league extremely well.

You have no idea how many people are laughing at you when you dismiss the Groce era so easily. You really should study up on MAC basketball more. And by the way....who said John Groce was the second coming of Coach K? I never said that and I don't believe anyone else on this board said it either. Again, study up on the league Jerry.

I've forgotten more about Ohio basketball than you will ever know, trust me. I acknowledged the NCAA wins. Groce has had player personnel issues at Ohio, Illinois and Akron. I'm not big on guys getting charged with assault I guess. Maybe that's okay with you.
Last Edited: 2/11/2019 7:43:49 AM by Jerry86
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Posted: 2/11/2019 8:15 AM
We need to convene a meeting of those who have "forgotten more about Ohio basketball than you will ever know." This claim has been made by three different participants in the past few days.

If they can get together, will they be able to uncover those deeply hidden, forgotten facts? Can they put on a "master class" to help bring the rest of us up to speed?

Or are they simply residing in memory care units across the state? (If so, is one a neighbor of OCF?)
Last Edited: 2/11/2019 8:18:13 AM by SBH
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 2/11/2019 8:18 AM
At this point for 2019, FearLeon is 100% Akron fan and 0% Ohio fan.
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Posted: 2/11/2019 9:02 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
At this point for 2019, FearLeon is 100% Akron fan and 0% Ohio fan.
That pendulum will swing in #(iforgethowmany)days
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Posted: 2/11/2019 10:23 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
At this point for 2019, FearLeon is 100% Akron fan and 0% Ohio fan.
You could not be more wrong.
Last Edited: 2/11/2019 10:35:57 PM by FearLeon
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Posted: 2/12/2019 2:46 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
At this point for 2019, FearLeon is 100% Akron fan and 0% Ohio fan.
If given the choice, would you rather go through the 4 Groce years again or the last 5 Philips years?

According to you, if you make the obvious answer, allow me to direct you to your new posting grounds:

http://zipsnation.org/forums /
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/12/2019 7:51 AM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
At this point for 2019, FearLeon is 100% Akron fan and 0% Ohio fan.
If given the choice, would you rather go through the 4 Groce years again or the last 5 Philips years?

According to you, if you make the obvious answer, allow me to direct you to your new posting grounds:

http://zipsnation.org/forums /
This argument has two factions:

1. People who acknowledge the healthy dose of luck it takes to win in March

and

2. People who can't read the above statement without inexplicably thinking that saying so belittles what Groce's teams accomplished and is somehow a defense of Saul.

One of those two factions is logical and reasonable. I'll let you guess which.

There is nobody here arguing that they prefer Saul's tenure to Groce's. Full stop.

People are simply saying that there's a classy way to handle a coach's departure, and then there are threads like this one, which is classless, mouth-breathing garbage that attacks an imagined adversary to make a tired, universally acknowledged point.
Last Edited: 2/12/2019 8:03:19 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 2/12/2019 8:23 AM
Thank you BLSS. My point is FearLeon clearly salivates at his next chance to say "Ha! See! I told you all so!" He has spread the same message 1,000 times over. It's only natural that he end up hoping for that message to be validated, which is clearly the case with this thread and his gleaming over Akron's 1st round MAC win last March. If Akron makes a run to the semis this year, he'll be over the moon excited.
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Posted: 2/12/2019 9:20 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
1. People who acknowledge the healthy dose of luck it takes to win in March
I agree with this, and I know that 2010 in particular is an example of the stars just barely aligning. That said, any dose of luck has to include the ingredients needed to actually succeed. The 2010 team famously underachieved and had plenty of dysfunction. They got it together but they had the talent the whole time. Most of the starters went on to play pro ball in Europe, with Cooper starring in elite leagues. The last time this program recruited guys like that was when Jim Christian was recruiting Tone, pulling in Ndour and audaciously trying to lure Tariq Owens to Athens. Groce and Christian shot for the moon and sometimes got it -- THAT is what it takes to win in March, and all the luck in the world won't help if you don't have guys like that.

Saul's best two "gets" in five years are Ryan Taylor and Simmons. Their departures are not "bad luck" no matter what anyone says.
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Posted: 2/12/2019 9:53 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
1. People who acknowledge the healthy dose of luck it takes to win in March
I agree with this, and I know that 2010 in particular is an example of the stars just barely aligning. That said, any dose of luck has to include the ingredients needed to actually succeed. The 2010 team famously underachieved and had plenty of dysfunction. They got it together but they had the talent the whole time. Most of the starters went on to play pro ball in Europe, with Cooper starring in elite leagues. The last time this program recruited guys like that was when Jim Christian was recruiting Tone, pulling in Ndour and audaciously trying to lure Tariq Owens to Athens. Groce and Christian shot for the moon and sometimes got it -- THAT is what it takes to win in March, and all the luck in the world won't help if you don't have guys like that.

Saul's best two "gets" in five years are Ryan Taylor and Simmons. Their departures are not "bad luck" no matter what anyone says.
I agree completely that Saul didn't put the talent on the floor. Don't dispute that at all.

My take is basically that the late rounds of the MAC tournament and early rounds of the NCAA tournament should be thought of similarly to how the Moneyball crew thought of playoff baseball. Essentially, the sample-size is too small to really count on anything, and the best you can do is build a team that gets you to that point in the season and gives you the opportunity for the chips to fall in your favor.

And I think that's the basic point most folks are making about Groce. We won some really exciting games and went on some great runs, but did so with some uneven if very talented teams. That we went to the Sweet 16 shouldn't alter how we benchmark success for our basketball program. We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
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Posted: 2/12/2019 11:28 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
I disagree given the resources we pour into the program. Making the NCAA tournament just means winning the MAC Tourney once every five years. When you're spending the most (historically, we have, though we're probably "only" top three now), it's not unreasonable to expect conference championships 20% of the time.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/12/2019 11:36 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
I disagree given the resources we pour into the program. Making the NCAA tournament just means winning the MAC Tourney once every five years. When you're spending the most (historically, we have, though we're probably "only" top three now), it's not unreasonable to expect conference championships 20% of the time.
But it is unreasonable given certain circumstances.

Let's say Saul had lost by a point in a MAC Championship game and lost another by 3 points in overtime. Or let's say we lost in the MAC Championship without Antonio Campbell.

Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then? I think setting such a stringent metric's silly given all the variables.
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Posted: 2/12/2019 11:47 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
I disagree given the resources we pour into the program. Making the NCAA tournament just means winning the MAC Tourney once every five years. When you're spending the most (historically, we have, though we're probably "only" top three now), it's not unreasonable to expect conference championships 20% of the time.
But it is unreasonable given certain circumstances.

Let's say Saul had lost by a point in a MAC Championship game and lost another by 3 points in overtime. Or let's say we lost in the MAC Championship without Antonio Campbell.

Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then? I think setting such a stringent metric's silly given all the variables.
Agreed. Conference tournament basketball - a one and done set of games - has so many variables that getting to a conference tournament final, and winning it at a set frequency, should not be the only measure of success. In this case in Athens, that he didn't win one in his five year term isn't really the issue. It's where we are right now that is the issue.
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Posted: 2/12/2019 9:06 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then?
Easy answer. Yes.
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Posted: 2/13/2019 8:13 AM
Buck.Cat wrote:expand_more
Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then?
Easy answer. Yes.
Well, in that case, coaches are definitely going to be banging down the door to get this job. A full rebuild AND a delusional fanbase with crazy expectations? Great combination.
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Posted: 2/13/2019 8:19 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then?
Easy answer. Yes.
Well, in that case, coaches are definitely going to be banging down the door to get this job. A full rebuild AND a delusional fanbase with crazy expectations? Great combination.
Yeah because the last thing the new coach is going to do before signing a contract that is probably going to pay him a minimum of $350K per year is to go on Bobcat Attack and see what FearLeon and Buck.Cat have to say about the team and staff. Good lord....you are joking right?

And if you don't think that Saul's five years here is a failure then you have the lowest of expectations. Congrats on your participation ribbons as well.
Last Edited: 2/13/2019 8:21:14 AM by FearLeon
allen
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Posted: 2/13/2019 8:25 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then?
Easy answer. Yes.
Well, in that case, coaches are definitely going to be banging down the door to get this job. A full rebuild AND a delusional fanbase with crazy expectations? Great combination.
If we interview a coach and his expectations are anything less than a MAC championship in five years, they should cut the interview short and move on to the next candidate. We will be in a rebuild with one of the best big’s in the conference and one of the best defender’s (Cowart). The coach will have tremendous support from the fan base and the institution (spending). We shouldn’t be governed by fear. Saul didn’t fail or succeed, he touched a lot of hearts as we can see from the message board, while presiding over a middle tier/bottom tier program. We pay over 500k to play to win. If our academics fell into the bottom tier, we would fire the president. Every school has standards and we have to decide where we set our standards.
Last Edited: 2/13/2019 8:27:07 AM by allen
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Posted: 2/13/2019 8:37 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then?
Easy answer. Yes.
Well, in that case, coaches are definitely going to be banging down the door to get this job. A full rebuild AND a delusional fanbase with crazy expectations? Great combination.
If it's delusional to expect a winning conference record given what the school puts into the program, could you tell us what rational expectations look like? Not losing every game by 20?
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/13/2019 9:37 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then?
Easy answer. Yes.
Well, in that case, coaches are definitely going to be banging down the door to get this job. A full rebuild AND a delusional fanbase with crazy expectations? Great combination.
If it's delusional to expect a winning conference record given what the school puts into the program, could you tell us what rational expectations look like? Not losing every game by 20?
All you need to do to see "what I think rational expectations look like" is, you know, read the thread you responded to.

I laid out a hypothetical scenario where Saul had OU in three MAC Championship games in and narrowly lost in all three. Buck said he'd fire him regardless.

Or actually, probably more accurately, Buck came into a thread, didn't read it closely, and couldn't resist chiming in about his thoughts on firing Saul because literally nobody here seems capable of following a conversation or responding rationally when it comes to this particular subject.

There's a conversation taking place about what expectations are reasonable going forward. Nobody is arguing in favor of retaining Saul, nor is anybody arguing that the results to date are acceptable.
Last Edited: 2/13/2019 9:53:05 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/13/2019 9:44 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then?
Easy answer. Yes.
Well, in that case, coaches are definitely going to be banging down the door to get this job. A full rebuild AND a delusional fanbase with crazy expectations? Great combination.
Yeah because the last thing the new coach is going to do before signing a contract that is probably going to pay him a minimum of $350K per year is to go on Bobcat Attack and see what FearLeon and Buck.Cat have to say about the team and staff. Good lord....you are joking right?

And if you don't think that Saul's five years here is a failure then you have the lowest of expectations. Congrats on your participation ribbons as well.
Learn to read better.

It's truly ridiculous that you still think anybody here is defending Saul's record. Nobody is doing that. You're crusading against a completely imagined opposition. Everybody is onboard with moving on. In fact, this very conversation is about what the expectations should be when we move on.

And no, I don't think the next coach cares about what you say. What I do think they care about is how the fanbase perceives success and how their results will be judged. Part of understanding that is understanding what the fanbase expects. And I happen to think it's completely crazy that some people here think that fielding a very competitive team with three close MAC Championship game losses would be considered a failure.

All that said, you didn't bother to understand the context of what I wrote and are you're not actually arguing with the point I made. You are, as usual, just having the same old argument you've been having with nobody at all for the last 5 months.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/13/2019 9:51 AM
allen wrote:expand_more
Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then?
Easy answer. Yes.
Well, in that case, coaches are definitely going to be banging down the door to get this job. A full rebuild AND a delusional fanbase with crazy expectations? Great combination.
If we interview a coach and his expectations are anything less than a MAC championship in five years, they should cut the interview short and move on to the next candidate. We will be in a rebuild with one of the best big’s in the conference and one of the best defender’s (Cowart). The coach will have tremendous support from the fan base and the institution (spending). We shouldn’t be governed by fear. Saul didn’t fail or succeed, he touched a lot of hearts as we can see from the message board, while presiding over a middle tier/bottom tier program. We pay over 500k to play to win. If our academics fell into the bottom tier, we would fire the president. Every school has standards and we have to decide where we set our standards.
Expectations and reality are two different things.

Coaches should all have the expectation that they can win the conference -- at no point did I argue that we should hire a coach without the expectations or desire to do so.

But I think context is important to measuring the results, and the idea that any coach who fails to make an NCAA tournament in five years is a failure is overly simplistic. We want a coach who builds a competitive team that has the chance to win every year. But the reality is that actually winning takes a whole lot of luck in single elimination tournaments, so I'm not going to just cast aside a coach who has us on the cusp but has some bad luck.

And I think anybody who believes otherwise is, frankly, a bit delusional about what our program is and how easy it is to get to the NCAAs.
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Posted: 2/13/2019 9:52 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then?
Easy answer. Yes.
Well, in that case, coaches are definitely going to be banging down the door to get this job. A full rebuild AND a delusional fanbase with crazy expectations? Great combination.
If it's delusional to expect a winning conference record given what the school puts into the program, could you tell us what rational expectations look like? Not losing every game by 20?
Sorry, but you missed the point.

I laid out a hypothetical scenario where Saul had OU in three MAC Championship games in and narrowly lost in all three. Buck said he'd fire him regardless.

Or actually, probably more accurately, Buck came into a thread, didn't read it closely, and couldn't resist chiming in about his thoughts on firing Saul because literally nobody here seems capable of following a conversation or responding rationally when it comes to this particular subject.

There's a conversation taking place about what expectations are reasonable going forward. Nobody is arguing in favor of retaining Saul, nor is anybody arguing that the results to date are acceptable.

It is easy to discern your thought and intentions, that is why you come up with crazy hypotheticals and moral victories. It is is also why you called people with reasonable expectations delusional. We all hope that Saul can pull a rabbit out of his hat. Don’t be ashamed to be a Saul advocate, it is nothing wrong with that, but is wrong to lie about how you feel on a message board. Be strong and of a good courage and tell us really how you feel and we can have a debate or a meeting of the minds.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/13/2019 10:03 AM
allen wrote:expand_more
Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then?
Easy answer. Yes.
Well, in that case, coaches are definitely going to be banging down the door to get this job. A full rebuild AND a delusional fanbase with crazy expectations? Great combination.
If it's delusional to expect a winning conference record given what the school puts into the program, could you tell us what rational expectations look like? Not losing every game by 20?
Sorry, but you missed the point.

I laid out a hypothetical scenario where Saul had OU in three MAC Championship games in and narrowly lost in all three. Buck said he'd fire him regardless.

Or actually, probably more accurately, Buck came into a thread, didn't read it closely, and couldn't resist chiming in about his thoughts on firing Saul because literally nobody here seems capable of following a conversation or responding rationally when it comes to this particular subject.

There's a conversation taking place about what expectations are reasonable going forward. Nobody is arguing in favor of retaining Saul, nor is anybody arguing that the results to date are acceptable.

It is easy to discern your thought and intentions, that is why you come up with crazy hypotheticals and moral victories. It is is also why you called people with reasonable expectations delusional. We all hope that Saul can pull a rabbit out of his hat. Don’t be ashamed to be a Saul advocate, it is nothing wrong with that, but is wrong to lie about how you feel on a message board. Be strong and of a good courage and tell us really how you feel and we can have a debate or a meeting of the minds.
Okay, dude. Whatever you say. You know you can tell you're definitely doing a really good job in an argument? When you have to completely disregard what the other person is actually saying and pretend they're saying the exact opposite for your reaction to make any sense.

Also: bonus points for accusing me of making up hypotheticals because I need a moral victory in the very same post where you've decided I'm saying the opposite of what I actually mean in order to convince yourself that you're winning this argument.

I believe that's called "projecting."

But I guess when I say things like this:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I agree completely that Saul didn't put the talent on the floor. Don't dispute that at all.

My take is basically that the late rounds of the MAC tournament and early rounds of the NCAA tournament should be thought of similarly to how the Moneyball crew thought of playoff baseball. Essentially, the sample-size is too small to really count on anything, and the best you can do is build a team that gets you to that point in the season and gives you the opportunity for the chips to fall in your favor.

And I think that's the basic point most folks are making about Groce. We won some really exciting games and went on some great runs, but did so with some uneven if very talented teams. That we went to the Sweet 16 shouldn't alter how we benchmark success for our basketball program. We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
And when I lay out the list of coaches I think we should target, or when I say things like "It's obvious we need to move on, I just think we should try and do so with some class". . .

I'm just being a Saul fanboy who is lying about my personal feelings because, I dunno, you all need somebody to argue with on a subject in which there's actual universal agreement? I mean sure, Saul obviously didn't do the things that I set as my standard for what the OU basketball coach should accomplish, and I've said I think he should be fired a dozen times, but don't let that stop you from pretending I feel the complete opposite of what I've been saying.

I find it super weird how desperate you are to find somebody who wants to keep Saul around. I mean, I've said the exact opposite a bunch, so I guess the best option is just to assume I'm lying and rally the mob to attack points I'm not making?

I get it though man, you're angry about the basketball team and you lack the emotional intelligence to handle that anger rationally, and want somewhere to focus it.

If it helps to focus that anger on me, you're welcome to do so. Here, maybe this will help:

I think Saul Phillips is a better coach than John Groce and I prefer losing records to going to the Sweet 16. Ohio University basketball has never been in better shape and I'm perplexed as to why anybody wants to fire Saul.
Last Edited: 2/13/2019 10:39:39 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/13/2019 11:01 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
. . . And I happen to think it's completely crazy that some people here think that fielding a very competitive team with three close MAC Championship game losses would be considered a failure. . . .
We also have some "completely crazy" folks on the football forum by that standard. I would agree that they are not thinking straight. In this or another like thread, some folks were actually arguing that if OHIO got red hot at tournament time and won the MAC tournament that Saul should still be fired. That's complete lunacy, and would never happen.

I'm beginning to think that FearLeon and his fellow travelers have taken lessons on "making friends and influencing people" from some of the chronic malcontents over on the football side of BA. However, none of them have quite the flare or the witty style of the most notorious of the chronic football complainers.
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Posted: 2/13/2019 11:12 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
You're crusading against a completely imagined opposition.
Bingo.
bshot44
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Posted: 2/13/2019 12:13 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
I disagree given the resources we pour into the program. Making the NCAA tournament just means winning the MAC Tourney once every five years. When you're spending the most (historically, we have, though we're probably "only" top three now), it's not unreasonable to expect conference championships 20% of the time.
But it is unreasonable given certain circumstances.

Let's say Saul had lost by a point in a MAC Championship game and lost another by 3 points in overtime. Or let's say we lost in the MAC Championship without Antonio Campbell.

Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then? I think setting such a stringent metric's silly given all the variables.
Agreed. Conference tournament basketball - a one and done set of games - has so many variables that getting to a conference tournament final, and winning it at a set frequency, should not be the only measure of success. In this case in Athens, that he didn't win one in his five year term isn't really the issue. It's where we are right now that is the issue.
Exactly.

I know it was a hypothetical with Saul losing three close MAC championship games ... but if he went 12-17 each year and made runs to the MAC title game and lost ... it would be viewed much differently than him going, say, 20-9 each year and losing in the title game.

Keith Dambrot went 3-6 in his tenure at Akron in MAC title games ... and in those 6 seasons he lost the title game, these were his records

26-7
24-11
24-11
21-12
26-9
24-7

There is a happy medium between March success and non-March success. Dambrot was able to accomplish a good amount of non-March success at Akron .... but also was able to cobble up three MAC tourney titles and 10 post-season berths into NCAA, NIT, CBI, CIT

Saul sniffed one CBI ... and has three losing seasons in five years.

Dambrot failed to win 20 games once in his tenure ... his first year they won 19. The worst MAC season they had was 9-9.

Saul's best MAC record was 11-7.

It just didn't work out for him. Injuries didn't help ... but bottom line, there's no excuse that can justify where this program is in 2019 considering this is the 5th year of the Saul Era.
GoCats105
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Posted: 2/13/2019 12:27 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
I disagree given the resources we pour into the program. Making the NCAA tournament just means winning the MAC Tourney once every five years. When you're spending the most (historically, we have, though we're probably "only" top three now), it's not unreasonable to expect conference championships 20% of the time.
But it is unreasonable given certain circumstances.

Let's say Saul had lost by a point in a MAC Championship game and lost another by 3 points in overtime. Or let's say we lost in the MAC Championship without Antonio Campbell.

Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then? I think setting such a stringent metric's silly given all the variables.
Agreed. Conference tournament basketball - a one and done set of games - has so many variables that getting to a conference tournament final, and winning it at a set frequency, should not be the only measure of success. In this case in Athens, that he didn't win one in his five year term isn't really the issue. It's where we are right now that is the issue.
Exactly.

I know it was a hypothetical with Saul losing three close MAC championship games ... but if he went 12-17 each year and made runs to the MAC title game and lost ... it would be viewed much differently than him going, say, 20-9 each year and losing in the title game.

Keith Dambrot went 3-6 in his tenure at Akron in MAC title games ... and in those 6 seasons he lost the title game, these were his records

26-7
24-11
24-11
21-12
26-9
24-7

There is a happy medium between March success and non-March success. Dambrot was able to accomplish a good amount of non-March success at Akron .... but also was able to cobble up three MAC tourney titles and 10 post-season berths into NCAA, NIT, CBI, CIT

Saul sniffed one CBI ... and has three losing seasons in five years.

Dambrot failed to win 20 games once in his tenure ... his first year they won 19. The worst MAC season they had was 9-9.

Saul's best MAC record was 11-7.

It just didn't work out for him. Injuries didn't help ... but bottom line, there's no excuse that can justify where this program is in 2019 considering this is the 5th year of the Saul Era.
As much as we loved the Groce run with the MAC titles and NCAA victories...if you think about it...Akron under Dambrot probably set the standard for what a MAC team should be.

I almost puked typing that.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/13/2019 12:43 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
I disagree given the resources we pour into the program. Making the NCAA tournament just means winning the MAC Tourney once every five years. When you're spending the most (historically, we have, though we're probably "only" top three now), it's not unreasonable to expect conference championships 20% of the time.
But it is unreasonable given certain circumstances.

Let's say Saul had lost by a point in a MAC Championship game and lost another by 3 points in overtime. Or let's say we lost in the MAC Championship without Antonio Campbell.

Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then? I think setting such a stringent metric's silly given all the variables.
Agreed. Conference tournament basketball - a one and done set of games - has so many variables that getting to a conference tournament final, and winning it at a set frequency, should not be the only measure of success. In this case in Athens, that he didn't win one in his five year term isn't really the issue. It's where we are right now that is the issue.
Exactly.

I know it was a hypothetical with Saul losing three close MAC championship games ... but if he went 12-17 each year and made runs to the MAC title game and lost ... it would be viewed much differently than him going, say, 20-9 each year and losing in the title game.

Keith Dambrot went 3-6 in his tenure at Akron in MAC title games ... and in those 6 seasons he lost the title game, these were his records

26-7
24-11
24-11
21-12
26-9
24-7

There is a happy medium between March success and non-March success. Dambrot was able to accomplish a good amount of non-March success at Akron .... but also was able to cobble up three MAC tourney titles and 10 post-season berths into NCAA, NIT, CBI, CIT

Saul sniffed one CBI ... and has three losing seasons in five years.

Dambrot failed to win 20 games once in his tenure ... his first year they won 19. The worst MAC season they had was 9-9.

Saul's best MAC record was 11-7.

It just didn't work out for him. Injuries didn't help ... but bottom line, there's no excuse that can justify where this program is in 2019 considering this is the 5th year of the Saul Era.
Yeah, I think this is a good point. My hypothetical didn't mention anything about regular season success, but it's obviously important. You want a coach who puts a competitive team on the floor year in and year out, and given our standing in the MAC historically, I think we should consistently be in the top 4 or 5 teams in the league. Which is to say, in a down year, we should be something like the 5 seed.

I think an interesting case to imagine is what would have happened had Tim O'Shea not gone on that run in '05. His teams in his first three years at Ohio went:

17-11
14-16
10-20

and then he had a 21-10 team that won the MAC tournament.

Which all in all, are pretty underwhelming results with a pretty talented team (Hunter, Flomo, Sonny Johnson) though guard play was lacking.

But he also had wins against UNC and UVA, and played a very good Kent State team close consistently. Let's say Leon Williams' tip-in doesn't go in. When's O'Shea let go?
bshot44
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Posted: 2/13/2019 2:30 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
I disagree given the resources we pour into the program. Making the NCAA tournament just means winning the MAC Tourney once every five years. When you're spending the most (historically, we have, though we're probably "only" top three now), it's not unreasonable to expect conference championships 20% of the time.
But it is unreasonable given certain circumstances.

Let's say Saul had lost by a point in a MAC Championship game and lost another by 3 points in overtime. Or let's say we lost in the MAC Championship without Antonio Campbell.

Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then? I think setting such a stringent metric's silly given all the variables.
Agreed. Conference tournament basketball - a one and done set of games - has so many variables that getting to a conference tournament final, and winning it at a set frequency, should not be the only measure of success. In this case in Athens, that he didn't win one in his five year term isn't really the issue. It's where we are right now that is the issue.
Exactly.

I know it was a hypothetical with Saul losing three close MAC championship games ... but if he went 12-17 each year and made runs to the MAC title game and lost ... it would be viewed much differently than him going, say, 20-9 each year and losing in the title game.

Keith Dambrot went 3-6 in his tenure at Akron in MAC title games ... and in those 6 seasons he lost the title game, these were his records

26-7
24-11
24-11
21-12
26-9
24-7

There is a happy medium between March success and non-March success. Dambrot was able to accomplish a good amount of non-March success at Akron .... but also was able to cobble up three MAC tourney titles and 10 post-season berths into NCAA, NIT, CBI, CIT

Saul sniffed one CBI ... and has three losing seasons in five years.

Dambrot failed to win 20 games once in his tenure ... his first year they won 19. The worst MAC season they had was 9-9.

Saul's best MAC record was 11-7.

It just didn't work out for him. Injuries didn't help ... but bottom line, there's no excuse that can justify where this program is in 2019 considering this is the 5th year of the Saul Era.
Yeah, I think this is a good point. My hypothetical didn't mention anything about regular season success, but it's obviously important. You want a coach who puts a competitive team on the floor year in and year out, and given our standing in the MAC historically, I think we should consistently be in the top 4 or 5 teams in the league. Which is to say, in a down year, we should be something like the 5 seed.

I think an interesting case to imagine is what would have happened had Tim O'Shea not gone on that run in '05. His teams in his first three years at Ohio went:

17-11
14-16
10-20

and then he had a 21-10 team that won the MAC tournament.

Which all in all, are pretty underwhelming results with a pretty talented team (Hunter, Flomo, Sonny Johnson) though guard play was lacking.

But he also had wins against UNC and UVA, and played a very good Kent State team close consistently. Let's say Leon Williams' tip-in doesn't go in. When's O'Shea let go?
Great question. O'Shea doesn't win that MAC title AND nearly upset Florida ... his seat probably would have gotten warm. But he did back that NCAA berth with 19, 19 and 20 win seasons. So he was much more competitive than what we're seeing now.

Saul is nowhere near doing that.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/13/2019 3:14 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
I disagree given the resources we pour into the program. Making the NCAA tournament just means winning the MAC Tourney once every five years. When you're spending the most (historically, we have, though we're probably "only" top three now), it's not unreasonable to expect conference championships 20% of the time.
But it is unreasonable given certain circumstances.

Let's say Saul had lost by a point in a MAC Championship game and lost another by 3 points in overtime. Or let's say we lost in the MAC Championship without Antonio Campbell.

Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then? I think setting such a stringent metric's silly given all the variables.
Agreed. Conference tournament basketball - a one and done set of games - has so many variables that getting to a conference tournament final, and winning it at a set frequency, should not be the only measure of success. In this case in Athens, that he didn't win one in his five year term isn't really the issue. It's where we are right now that is the issue.
Exactly.

I know it was a hypothetical with Saul losing three close MAC championship games ... but if he went 12-17 each year and made runs to the MAC title game and lost ... it would be viewed much differently than him going, say, 20-9 each year and losing in the title game.

Keith Dambrot went 3-6 in his tenure at Akron in MAC title games ... and in those 6 seasons he lost the title game, these were his records

26-7
24-11
24-11
21-12
26-9
24-7

There is a happy medium between March success and non-March success. Dambrot was able to accomplish a good amount of non-March success at Akron .... but also was able to cobble up three MAC tourney titles and 10 post-season berths into NCAA, NIT, CBI, CIT

Saul sniffed one CBI ... and has three losing seasons in five years.

Dambrot failed to win 20 games once in his tenure ... his first year they won 19. The worst MAC season they had was 9-9.

Saul's best MAC record was 11-7.

It just didn't work out for him. Injuries didn't help ... but bottom line, there's no excuse that can justify where this program is in 2019 considering this is the 5th year of the Saul Era.
Yeah, I think this is a good point. My hypothetical didn't mention anything about regular season success, but it's obviously important. You want a coach who puts a competitive team on the floor year in and year out, and given our standing in the MAC historically, I think we should consistently be in the top 4 or 5 teams in the league. Which is to say, in a down year, we should be something like the 5 seed.

I think an interesting case to imagine is what would have happened had Tim O'Shea not gone on that run in '05. His teams in his first three years at Ohio went:

17-11
14-16
10-20

and then he had a 21-10 team that won the MAC tournament.

Which all in all, are pretty underwhelming results with a pretty talented team (Hunter, Flomo, Sonny Johnson) though guard play was lacking.

But he also had wins against UNC and UVA, and played a very good Kent State team close consistently. Let's say Leon Williams' tip-in doesn't go in. When's O'Shea let go?
Great question. O'Shea doesn't win that MAC title AND nearly upset Florida ... his seat probably would have gotten warm. But he did back that NCAA berth with 19, 19 and 20 win seasons. So he was much more competitive than what we're seeing now.

Saul is nowhere near doing that.
Yeah. I don't think anybody's suggesting Saul's close to doing that. It's obvious Saul's getting the boot. This hypothetical's really just about what the expectations should be going forward.

But yeah, I think we're on the same page with O'Shea. I think it would have been a really tough decision, and frankly, was a tough decision. I think by the time he left everybody knew what his teams were. We were a solid mid-major, somebody nobody wanted to play on our home court or a neutral one, but ultimately a team with a fairly low ceiling.
Last Edited: 2/13/2019 3:15:55 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
Cats5
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Posted: 2/13/2019 3:15 PM
I miss Groce
bshot44
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Posted: 2/13/2019 4:25 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
I disagree given the resources we pour into the program. Making the NCAA tournament just means winning the MAC Tourney once every five years. When you're spending the most (historically, we have, though we're probably "only" top three now), it's not unreasonable to expect conference championships 20% of the time.
But it is unreasonable given certain circumstances.

Let's say Saul had lost by a point in a MAC Championship game and lost another by 3 points in overtime. Or let's say we lost in the MAC Championship without Antonio Campbell.

Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then? I think setting such a stringent metric's silly given all the variables.
Agreed. Conference tournament basketball - a one and done set of games - has so many variables that getting to a conference tournament final, and winning it at a set frequency, should not be the only measure of success. In this case in Athens, that he didn't win one in his five year term isn't really the issue. It's where we are right now that is the issue.
Exactly.

I know it was a hypothetical with Saul losing three close MAC championship games ... but if he went 12-17 each year and made runs to the MAC title game and lost ... it would be viewed much differently than him going, say, 20-9 each year and losing in the title game.

Keith Dambrot went 3-6 in his tenure at Akron in MAC title games ... and in those 6 seasons he lost the title game, these were his records

26-7
24-11
24-11
21-12
26-9
24-7

There is a happy medium between March success and non-March success. Dambrot was able to accomplish a good amount of non-March success at Akron .... but also was able to cobble up three MAC tourney titles and 10 post-season berths into NCAA, NIT, CBI, CIT

Saul sniffed one CBI ... and has three losing seasons in five years.

Dambrot failed to win 20 games once in his tenure ... his first year they won 19. The worst MAC season they had was 9-9.

Saul's best MAC record was 11-7.

It just didn't work out for him. Injuries didn't help ... but bottom line, there's no excuse that can justify where this program is in 2019 considering this is the 5th year of the Saul Era.
Yeah, I think this is a good point. My hypothetical didn't mention anything about regular season success, but it's obviously important. You want a coach who puts a competitive team on the floor year in and year out, and given our standing in the MAC historically, I think we should consistently be in the top 4 or 5 teams in the league. Which is to say, in a down year, we should be something like the 5 seed.

I think an interesting case to imagine is what would have happened had Tim O'Shea not gone on that run in '05. His teams in his first three years at Ohio went:

17-11
14-16
10-20

and then he had a 21-10 team that won the MAC tournament.

Which all in all, are pretty underwhelming results with a pretty talented team (Hunter, Flomo, Sonny Johnson) though guard play was lacking.

But he also had wins against UNC and UVA, and played a very good Kent State team close consistently. Let's say Leon Williams' tip-in doesn't go in. When's O'Shea let go?
Great question. O'Shea doesn't win that MAC title AND nearly upset Florida ... his seat probably would have gotten warm. But he did back that NCAA berth with 19, 19 and 20 win seasons. So he was much more competitive than what we're seeing now.

Saul is nowhere near doing that.
Yeah. I don't think anybody's suggesting Saul's close to doing that. It's obvious Saul's getting the boot. This hypothetical's really just about what the expectations should be going forward.

But yeah, I think we're on the same page with O'Shea. I think it would have been a really tough decision, and frankly, was a tough decision. I think by the time he left everybody knew what his teams were. We were a solid mid-major, somebody nobody wanted to play on our home court or a neutral one, but ultimately a team with a fairly low ceiling.
Agree. O'Shea was kind of growing stale in the same way that Larry Hunter's 17-20 win teams that failed to win MAC tourney were growing stale. (Funny how we'd kill for that now!)

In terms of expectations ... I don't think it's outrageous to expect Dambrot-type results. MAC tourney wins ... MAC tourney title appearances more often than not ... 20+ wins each year. Flirt with Top 25 and at-large discussions from time to time.

There's just a pit in my stomach that Ohio wasn't able to truly capitalize off of 2012 & 2013. I still think had Christian stayed, Ohio would be where Buffalo is or competitive with Buffalo right now. Imagine if Dambrot hung around with Oats and Christian ... MAC would have had a pretty damn strong league (not that it's horrible right now)

But ... sadly, Ohio is. They're horrible. That's just the truth.

I know program's can't sustain three coaches in three years and it came back and bit Ohio in the ass. Unfortunately, Saul never got things back on track.

There's no reason to think the next hire can't restore Ohio to a consistent top 4 MAC team and possibly build it into a consistent title contender.

We'll never be Gonzaga or Wichita State ... and anyone that thinks that is a bit crazy. But there's no reason Ohio can't become the elite program in the MAC ... or at least in the discussion every year.
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Posted: 2/13/2019 5:01 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
I disagree given the resources we pour into the program. Making the NCAA tournament just means winning the MAC Tourney once every five years. When you're spending the most (historically, we have, though we're probably "only" top three now), it's not unreasonable to expect conference championships 20% of the time.
But it is unreasonable given certain circumstances.

Let's say Saul had lost by a point in a MAC Championship game and lost another by 3 points in overtime. Or let's say we lost in the MAC Championship without Antonio Campbell.

Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then? I think setting such a stringent metric's silly given all the variables.
Agreed. Conference tournament basketball - a one and done set of games - has so many variables that getting to a conference tournament final, and winning it at a set frequency, should not be the only measure of success. In this case in Athens, that he didn't win one in his five year term isn't really the issue. It's where we are right now that is the issue.
Exactly.

I know it was a hypothetical with Saul losing three close MAC championship games ... but if he went 12-17 each year and made runs to the MAC title game and lost ... it would be viewed much differently than him going, say, 20-9 each year and losing in the title game.

Keith Dambrot went 3-6 in his tenure at Akron in MAC title games ... and in those 6 seasons he lost the title game, these were his records

26-7
24-11
24-11
21-12
26-9
24-7

There is a happy medium between March success and non-March success. Dambrot was able to accomplish a good amount of non-March success at Akron .... but also was able to cobble up three MAC tourney titles and 10 post-season berths into NCAA, NIT, CBI, CIT

Saul sniffed one CBI ... and has three losing seasons in five years.

Dambrot failed to win 20 games once in his tenure ... his first year they won 19. The worst MAC season they had was 9-9.

Saul's best MAC record was 11-7.

It just didn't work out for him. Injuries didn't help ... but bottom line, there's no excuse that can justify where this program is in 2019 considering this is the 5th year of the Saul Era.
Yeah, I think this is a good point. My hypothetical didn't mention anything about regular season success, but it's obviously important. You want a coach who puts a competitive team on the floor year in and year out, and given our standing in the MAC historically, I think we should consistently be in the top 4 or 5 teams in the league. Which is to say, in a down year, we should be something like the 5 seed.

I think an interesting case to imagine is what would have happened had Tim O'Shea not gone on that run in '05. His teams in his first three years at Ohio went:

17-11
14-16
10-20

and then he had a 21-10 team that won the MAC tournament.

Which all in all, are pretty underwhelming results with a pretty talented team (Hunter, Flomo, Sonny Johnson) though guard play was lacking.

But he also had wins against UNC and UVA, and played a very good Kent State team close consistently. Let's say Leon Williams' tip-in doesn't go in. When's O'Shea let go?
Shut your mouth, we had Zach Kekow
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 2/13/2019 5:03 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
We want a coach who recruits talented players and gives the program the opportunity to win games that matter, but I'm not convinced that it's the right expectation that we insist on an NCAA tournament appearance every few years. There's just too much variability and luck that goes into that.
I disagree given the resources we pour into the program. Making the NCAA tournament just means winning the MAC Tourney once every five years. When you're spending the most (historically, we have, though we're probably "only" top three now), it's not unreasonable to expect conference championships 20% of the time.
But it is unreasonable given certain circumstances.

Let's say Saul had lost by a point in a MAC Championship game and lost another by 3 points in overtime. Or let's say we lost in the MAC Championship without Antonio Campbell.

Would you deem Saul's tenure a failure then? I think setting such a stringent metric's silly given all the variables.
Agreed. Conference tournament basketball - a one and done set of games - has so many variables that getting to a conference tournament final, and winning it at a set frequency, should not be the only measure of success. In this case in Athens, that he didn't win one in his five year term isn't really the issue. It's where we are right now that is the issue.
Exactly.

I know it was a hypothetical with Saul losing three close MAC championship games ... but if he went 12-17 each year and made runs to the MAC title game and lost ... it would be viewed much differently than him going, say, 20-9 each year and losing in the title game.

Keith Dambrot went 3-6 in his tenure at Akron in MAC title games ... and in those 6 seasons he lost the title game, these were his records

26-7
24-11
24-11
21-12
26-9
24-7

There is a happy medium between March success and non-March success. Dambrot was able to accomplish a good amount of non-March success at Akron .... but also was able to cobble up three MAC tourney titles and 10 post-season berths into NCAA, NIT, CBI, CIT

Saul sniffed one CBI ... and has three losing seasons in five years.

Dambrot failed to win 20 games once in his tenure ... his first year they won 19. The worst MAC season they had was 9-9.

Saul's best MAC record was 11-7.

It just didn't work out for him. Injuries didn't help ... but bottom line, there's no excuse that can justify where this program is in 2019 considering this is the 5th year of the Saul Era.
Yeah, I think this is a good point. My hypothetical didn't mention anything about regular season success, but it's obviously important. You want a coach who puts a competitive team on the floor year in and year out, and given our standing in the MAC historically, I think we should consistently be in the top 4 or 5 teams in the league. Which is to say, in a down year, we should be something like the 5 seed.

I think an interesting case to imagine is what would have happened had Tim O'Shea not gone on that run in '05. His teams in his first three years at Ohio went:

17-11
14-16
10-20

and then he had a 21-10 team that won the MAC tournament.

Which all in all, are pretty underwhelming results with a pretty talented team (Hunter, Flomo, Sonny Johnson) though guard play was lacking.

But he also had wins against UNC and UVA, and played a very good Kent State team close consistently. Let's say Leon Williams' tip-in doesn't go in. When's O'Shea let go?
Great question. O'Shea doesn't win that MAC title AND nearly upset Florida ... his seat probably would have gotten warm. But he did back that NCAA berth with 19, 19 and 20 win seasons. So he was much more competitive than what we're seeing now.

Saul is nowhere near doing that.
Timmy's contract was so large (at the time) and long that no way was OHIO buying him out. The guy had the greatest agent in coaching history. Of course Tom Boeh was also the biggest chump in NCAA history.
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Posted: 2/13/2019 8:01 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
We also have some "completely crazy" folks on the football forum by that standard. I would agree that they are not thinking straight. In this or another like thread, some folks were actually arguing that if OHIO got red hot at tournament time and won the MAC tournament that Saul should still be fired. That's complete lunacy, and would never happen.

I'm beginning to think that FearLeon and his fellow travelers have taken lessons on "making friends and influencing people" from some of the chronic malcontents over on the football side of BA. However, none of them have quite the flare or the witty style of the most notorious of the chronic football complainers.

I have said it before but I will repeat it: some people have reasonable expectations for their sports teams. This is not a charity. It's pretty hilarious to hear you calling out others for being crazy. You are after all the one who thought Nathan Rourke was one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the country last season. Did you ever figure out the names in that top 10?
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Posted: 2/13/2019 10:22 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Yeah because the last thing the new coach is going to do before signing a contract that is probably going to pay him a minimum of $350K per year is to go on Bobcat Attack and see what FearLeon and Buck.Cat have to say about the team and staff. Good lord....you are joking right?
\
If that were the case the guy in Oxford would not have been coming. Had he read that pathetic board and considered it legit there is no way he would have left Purdue. Good thing all those aspiring young stud coaches all think they are "the one" .
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/13/2019 11:56 PM
Buck.Cat wrote:expand_more
We also have some "completely crazy" folks on the football forum by that standard. I would agree that they are not thinking straight. In this or another like thread, some folks were actually arguing that if OHIO got red hot at tournament time and won the MAC tournament that Saul should still be fired. That's complete lunacy, and would never happen.

I'm beginning to think that FearLeon and his fellow travelers have taken lessons on "making friends and influencing people" from some of the chronic malcontents over on the football side of BA. However, none of them have quite the flare or the witty style of the most notorious of the chronic football complainers.

I have said it before but I will repeat it: some people have reasonable expectations for their sports teams. This is not a charity. It's pretty hilarious to hear you calling out others for being crazy. You are after all the one who thought Nathan Rourke was one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the country last season. Did you ever figure out the names in that top 10?
It has noting to do with "reasonable expectations" for your sports teams. It has to do with logic, IF Saul wins the MAC tournament, he will be retained. Now, the likelihood of that happening is quite low, but it's a truism that you and others seem not to be able to comprehend. It is apparently because your hate is so deep. What a pity.

I'll tell you my picks for the other top ten QBs when you tell me why NFL draft status has anything to do with picking the best college QB and the Heisman Trophy. Your question was actually not really relevant to the basic point I was making, that's why I ignored it.
OU_Country
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Posted: 2/14/2019 10:49 AM
longtiimelurker wrote:expand_more
Yeah because the last thing the new coach is going to do before signing a contract that is probably going to pay him a minimum of $350K per year is to go on Bobcat Attack and see what FearLeon and Buck.Cat have to say about the team and staff. Good lord....you are joking right?
\
If that were the case the guy in Oxford would not have been coming. Had he read that pathetic board and considered it legit there is no way he would have left Purdue. Good thing all those aspiring young stud coaches all think they are "the one" .
I hate to say this, but if any players or coaches took stock in what this bunch on this board brings to the table, there's no way they'd come here either. We're probably not any better than Miami's Hawk Talk. There's just more of us to behave like idiots.
bshot44
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Posted: 2/14/2019 3:59 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
... IF Saul wins the MAC tournament, he will be retained. Now, the likelihood of that happening is quite low, but it's a truism that you and others seem not to be able to comprehend. It is apparently because your hate is so deep. What a pity.
I'm sorry. But this is not a truism.

If Ohio catches fire and wins MAC tourney (first of all, hell would have frozen over) ... Saul is still gone. He will leave for another job. Period.

The marriage is over.

If there was any chance that it could have been salvaged, Schaus would have commented or they would have signed an extension last year.

The silence is deafening.

#SaulBall at Ohio University
2014-2019
R.I.P.
Last Edited: 2/14/2019 4:00:05 PM by bshot44
Buck.Cat
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Posted: 2/14/2019 11:14 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
It has noting to do with "reasonable expectations" for your sports teams. It has to do with logic, IF Saul wins the MAC tournament, he will be retained. Now, the likelihood of that happening is quite low, but it's a truism that you and others seem not to be able to comprehend. It is apparently because your hate is so deep. What a pity.
Can you provide a specific quote in this thread or any other where I state that Saul will not be retained if he were to win the MAC tournament?

OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I'll tell you my picks for the other top ten QBs when you tell me why NFL draft status has anything to do with picking the best college QB and the Heisman Trophy. Your question was actually not really relevant to the basic point I was making, that's why I ignored it.
It's pretty obvious that you ran away from the other thread because you realized how big of a fool that you came off as for saying that Rourke was a top 10 quarterback in the country last year.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 2/15/2019 2:20 AM
Buck.Cat wrote:expand_more
It has noting to do with "reasonable expectations" for your sports teams. It has to do with logic, IF Saul wins the MAC tournament, he will be retained. Now, the likelihood of that happening is quite low, but it's a truism that you and others seem not to be able to comprehend. It is apparently because your hate is so deep. What a pity.
Can you provide a specific quote in this thread or any other where I state that Saul will not be retained if he were to win the MAC tournament?

I'll tell you my picks for the other top ten QBs when you tell me why NFL draft status has anything to do with picking the best college QB and the Heisman Trophy. Your question was actually not really relevant to the basic point I was making, that's why I ignored it.
It's pretty obvious that you ran away from the other thread because you realized how big of a fool that you came off as for saying that Rourke was a top 10 quarterback in the country last year.
Cue the “Buck.Cat has a reading problem” post in 3...2...1...
cbus cat fan
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Posted: 2/15/2019 9:12 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Yeah because the last thing the new coach is going to do before signing a contract that is probably going to pay him a minimum of $350K per year is to go on Bobcat Attack and see what FearLeon and Buck.Cat have to say about the team and staff. Good lord....you are joking right?
\
If that were the case the guy in Oxford would not have been coming. Had he read that pathetic board and considered it legit there is no way he would have left Purdue. Good thing all those aspiring young stud coaches all think they are "the one" .
I hate to say this, but if any players or coaches took stock in what this bunch on this board brings to the table, there's no way they'd come here either. We're probably not any better than Miami's Hawk Talk. There's just more of us to behave like idiots.
OU Country, people are frustrated on the board that comes with the territory when you're losing. They sometimes say silly or stupid things, I am guilty of that too and I would include your last response in that category as well. However, do you really think a kid would look at our Bobcat Attack board and decide not to come here? Honestly, have you taken a look at the Power Conference boards? They make a bad day here look like a church picnic argument. I don't even know if Eastern Michigan has a board? Some MAC schools have so much apathy do you think that is appealing to a kid? Unfortunately the state of the world is rather coarse right now. With all of the world's positive developments in the last 1,000 years, you would think we are living in the Dark Ages because of our culture's victimization complex. Coach Phillips is a good man and he will move on and probably be happier at the end of the season. Hopefully, he will realize his short comings and decide his future plans by what are in his best interests. In the grand scheme of things, I am sure close to 99% of the country would trade places with him for the salary he's making.
Last Edited: 2/15/2019 9:14:41 AM by cbus cat fan
OU_Country
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Posted: 2/15/2019 10:54 AM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Yeah because the last thing the new coach is going to do before signing a contract that is probably going to pay him a minimum of $350K per year is to go on Bobcat Attack and see what FearLeon and Buck.Cat have to say about the team and staff. Good lord....you are joking right?
\
If that were the case the guy in Oxford would not have been coming. Had he read that pathetic board and considered it legit there is no way he would have left Purdue. Good thing all those aspiring young stud coaches all think they are "the one" .
I hate to say this, but if any players or coaches took stock in what this bunch on this board brings to the table, there's no way they'd come here either. We're probably not any better than Miami's Hawk Talk. There's just more of us to behave like idiots.
OU Country, people are frustrated on the board that comes with the territory when you're losing. They sometimes say silly or stupid things, I am guilty of that too and I would include your last response in that category as well. However, do you really think a kid would look at our Bobcat Attack board and decide not to come here? Honestly, have you taken a look at the Power Conference boards? They make a bad day here look like a church picnic argument. I don't even know if Eastern Michigan has a board? Some MAC schools have so much apathy do you think that is appealing to a kid? Unfortunately the state of the world is rather coarse right now. With all of the world's positive developments in the last 1,000 years, you would think we are living in the Dark Ages because of our culture's victimization complex. Coach Phillips is a good man and he will move on and probably be happier at the end of the season. Hopefully, he will realize his short comings and decide his future plans by what are in his best interests. In the grand scheme of things, I am sure close to 99% of the country would trade places with him for the salary he's making.
Simply put - I was making the statement that Miami and it's board are no more or less pathetic that this one. There are simply more of us. I don't think that statement is silly, or stupid. From my own perspective, I think it's the truth as it relates to comparing the two. That's it. Nothing more.
cbus cat fan
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Posted: 2/15/2019 3:35 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Yeah because the last thing the new coach is going to do before signing a contract that is probably going to pay him a minimum of $350K per year is to go on Bobcat Attack and see what FearLeon and Buck.Cat have to say about the team and staff. Good lord....you are joking right?
\
If that were the case the guy in Oxford would not have been coming. Had he read that pathetic board and considered it legit there is no way he would have left Purdue. Good thing all those aspiring young stud coaches all think they are "the one" .
I hate to say this, but if any players or coaches took stock in what this bunch on this board brings to the table, there's no way they'd come here either. We're probably not any better than Miami's Hawk Talk. There's just more of us to behave like idiots.
OU Country, people are frustrated on the board that comes with the territory when you're losing. They sometimes say silly or stupid things, I am guilty of that too and I would include your last response in that category as well. However, do you really think a kid would look at our Bobcat Attack board and decide not to come here? Honestly, have you taken a look at the Power Conference boards? They make a bad day here look like a church picnic argument. I don't even know if Eastern Michigan has a board? Some MAC schools have so much apathy do you think that is appealing to a kid? Unfortunately the state of the world is rather coarse right now. With all of the world's positive developments in the last 1,000 years, you would think we are living in the Dark Ages because of our culture's victimization complex. Coach Phillips is a good man and he will move on and probably be happier at the end of the season. Hopefully, he will realize his short comings and decide his future plans by what are in his best interests. In the grand scheme of things, I am sure close to 99% of the country would trade places with him for the salary he's making.
Simply put - I was making the statement that Miami and it's board are no more or less pathetic that this one. There are simply more of us. I don't think that statement is silly, or stupid. From my own perspective, I think it's the truth as it relates to comparing the two. That's it. Nothing more.
Fair enough OU Country, have a good weekend!
IceCat76
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Posted: 2/19/2019 8:59 AM
An update on the Jim Christian saga at BC.

This article is from yesterday's Boston Globe. It's the first sign that the natives are restless. Typically it means someone in the BC AD office or a booster dropped a dime.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/colleges/2019/02/18/ha...

One thing that JC talks about in the article is reinventing the team after injuries. That's my biggest problem with Saul. Despite injuries and transfers he doesn't seem to be able to adapt or adjust.
GroverBall
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Posted: 2/19/2019 12:04 PM
IceCat76 wrote:expand_more
An update on the Jim Christian saga at BC.

This article is from yesterday's Boston Globe. It's the first sign that the natives are restless. Typically it means someone in the BC AD office or a booster dropped a dime.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/colleges/2019/02/18/ha...

One thing that JC talks about in the article is reinventing the team after injuries. That's my biggest problem with Saul. Despite injuries and transfers he doesn't seem to be able to adapt or adjust.
Thought this was the most interesting part of the article, after the JC stuff:

Conference USA will begin its revolutionary scheduling experiment this Saturday. The last four games of each team’s schedule were left blank before the season. The matchups have been determined by performance. For example, the top five teams will play each other in the final four games.

Here are the explanation and schedule.

The goal was to improve the league’s NCAA at-large chances by making the schedule more difficult. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like it’s going to work; C-USA appears to still be a one-bid league.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 2/19/2019 2:52 PM
I always wonder if Al Skinner doesn't sit back and laugh at what BC has become since they canned him.

"You'd give a lot of money to have me back, winning 22 games per season, and running the flex 76,000 times per game, wouldn't you? Wouldn't you?"
Alan Swank
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Posted: 2/19/2019 6:47 PM
IceCat76 wrote:expand_more
An update on the Jim Christian saga at BC.

This article is from yesterday's Boston Globe. It's the first sign that the natives are restless. Typically it means someone in the BC AD office or a booster dropped a dime.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/colleges/2019/02/18/ha...

One thing that JC talks about in the article is reinventing the team after injuries. That's my biggest problem with Saul. Despite injuries and transfers he doesn't seem to be able to adapt or adjust.
This is the quote that got me from the article.

“You’ve got to kind of keep reinventing yourself. Other guys have to emerge, and I think we’re getting that."
FearLeon
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Posted: 2/19/2019 7:51 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
An update on the Jim Christian saga at BC.

This article is from yesterday's Boston Globe. It's the first sign that the natives are restless. Typically it means someone in the BC AD office or a booster dropped a dime.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/colleges/2019/02/18/ha...

One thing that JC talks about in the article is reinventing the team after injuries. That's my biggest problem with Saul. Despite injuries and transfers he doesn't seem to be able to adapt or adjust.
This is the quote that got me from the article.

“You’ve got to kind of keep reinventing yourself. Other guys have to emerge, and I think we’re getting that."
Only fitting that Saul and Christian get fired at the same time.
GraffZ06
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Posted: 2/19/2019 10:16 PM
In the "What if the season ended today" file :

Certainly not official as I haven't gone through all the MAC tie-breakers but by my count we sit at the #11 seed. That means our first round game in the conference tournament would be at the #6 seed.

By my count - that's currently Akron.

Buffalo and BG 1 & 2 at 11-2.
Toledo and Kent 3 & 4 at 8-5.
Central 5th at 7-6.
Akron, Miami and EMU are 6 through 8 all at 6-7.

Lots can still change and again tie-breakers might seed teams a little differently, but wouldn't it almost be fitting for Saul's final game to be against Groce at Akron.

Ouch.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/19/2019 10:20 PM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
. . . Lots can still change and again tie-breakers might seed teams a little differently, but wouldn't it almost be fitting for Saul's final game to be against Groce at Akron.
Ouch.
Even more fitting would be if it was his next to last game, and we upset Akron and sent them home.
GroverBall
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Posted: 2/19/2019 10:23 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . Lots can still change and again tie-breakers might seed teams a little differently, but wouldn't it almost be fitting for Saul's final game to be against Groce at Akron.
Ouch.
Even more fitting would be if it was his next to last game, and we upset Akron and sent them home.
+1
MonroeClassmate
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Posted: 3/2/2019 3:36 PM
Remember, it was year two of Groce in OHIO that he took them to the first round victory in NCAA; anything less in year two with the Zips and he has lost his mojo.

Or perhaps it was that he caught lightning in the bottle in Athens?

Zips looking mighty at home against the Bob Kittens! NOT.

And look at the calendar, my goodness, it is March!
Last Edited: 3/2/2019 3:37:57 PM by MonroeClassmate
RSBobcat
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Posted: 3/2/2019 3:46 PM
Groce Ball 49 Saul Ball 73
FearLeon
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Posted: 3/2/2019 3:47 PM
The biggest win of the Saul era? How sweet it is to beat the Zippies and their annoying fan base that got oh so cocky. Hopefully this gets some more fans in the seats on Tuesday night for the Beefs.
Last Edited: 3/2/2019 3:52:52 PM by FearLeon
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 3/2/2019 3:51 PM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
Groce Ball 49 Saul Ball 73
Akron is now 7-9 in the MAC this season.
longtiimelurker
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Posted: 3/3/2019 2:40 PM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
In the "What if the season ended today" file :

Certainly not official as I haven't gone through all the MAC tie-breakers but by my count we sit at the #11 seed. That means our first round game in the conference tournament would be at the #6 seed.

By my count - that's currently Akron.

Buffalo and BG 1 & 2 at 11-2.
Toledo and Kent 3 & 4 at 8-5.
Central 5th at 7-6.
Akron, Miami and EMU are 6 through 8 all at 6-7.

Lots can still change and again tie-breakers might seed teams a little differently, but wouldn't it almost be fitting for Saul's final game to be against Groce at Akron.

Ouch.
Nice to know the league keeps us up regularly https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0sPLVvXgAg7QW0.jpg:large
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