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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: The Post: Time running out for SaulBall
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Ted Thompson
2/21/2019 11:12 AM

Link: Time running out for SaulBall

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OU_Country
2/21/2019 11:17 AM
Not to pile on, but is it safe to assume there is not a similar article discussing this in the Messenger?
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BillyTheCat
2/21/2019 11:28 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Not to pile on, but is it safe to assume there is not a similar article discussing this in the Messenger?
No, none

At the end of the day, tough time for all involved.
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Bobcat Love
2/21/2019 11:36 AM
Something is definitely up with Arkley.

I have always had a really good relationship with Jason, and even though my personal interactions with him have been limited, I always really liked being around him.

Yesterday he blocked me on twiter for something I would consider VERY benign. When the Pitino suggestion came up, he seemed to take it very personally and met the idea with nothing short of anger and disdain. He compared it to trying to hire Belichek in football and accused me of wanting Schaus fired (neither of which is true or paralell to the Pitino idea).

Maybe the Pitino idea has merit, maybe the Pitino idea is batshit crazy - either way, it's just that - an idea steeped in opinion. I know my style rubs people the wrong way, but there is something that isn't sitting right with me about the events of the last 48 hours.

We lose by 40 to Buffalo. Speculation about Saul's replacement heats up. Arkley gets completely triggered and angry about benign questions and comments.

Someone let me know what I'm missing here. Again, I like Jason and have never said one bad word about him, his reporting, his opinions, or anything else. This is definitely a new one to me, and frankly it stings me a bit. We've spoken very cordially the past 7 or 8 years, and this one is really out of left field.

So, since I can't DM him - Jason, I'm sorry for whatever it is I said that pissed you off. If it was something you interpreted as personal, let me know and I'll explain it or dive deeper to give you my side of the story. You know where to find me.

-LOVE
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Tom Valentino
2/21/2019 12:04 PM
I saw this exchange on Twitter. For what it’s worth, when you said the AD is responsible for the current disaster, I also took that to mean you thought he should be gone.
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FearLeon
2/21/2019 12:07 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Not to pile on, but is it safe to assume there is not a similar article discussing this in the Messenger?
Arkley has gotten absolutely pounded by The Post on the Saul story all season. Arkley just won't address it. Instead he just wants to write about how this team never quits...just stop.

Great work Pete. This is how you cover the "story of the season" when you are unable to get anyone to really discuss it on the record.
Last Edited: 2/21/2019 12:10:43 PM by FearLeon
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Bobcat Love
2/21/2019 12:12 PM
Tom Valentino wrote:expand_more
I saw this exchange on Twitter. For what it’s worth, when you said the AD is responsible for the current disaster, I also took that to mean you thought he should be gone.
An issue of interpretation, for which I am probably wrong, but I did clear it up during the exchange where I said I didn't wish Schaus gone.

I do think think that Schaus is ultimately responsible for the position we are in today. I would never have made the Jim Christian hire, and ultimately that is what set the dominoes in motion to get us to present day. That said, he hired Gregg Marshall and John Groce, so at minimum he should get a chance in the rubber match (2 great / 2 questionable).

With the exception of employing some very questionable carpetbaggers in the fundraising wing of the operation - Schaus has done a fine job.
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longtiimelurker
2/21/2019 12:19 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
I saw this exchange on Twitter. For what it’s worth, when you said the AD is responsible for the current disaster, I also took that to mean you thought he should be gone.
An issue of interpretation, for which I am probably wrong, but I did clear it up during the exchange where I said I didn't wish Schaus gone.

I do think think that Schaus is ultimately responsible for the position we are in today. I would never have made the Jim Christian hire, and ultimately that is what set the dominoes in motion to get us to present day. That said, he hired Gregg Marshall and John Groce, so at minimum he should get a chance in the rubber match (2 great / 2 questionable).

With the exception of employing some very questionable carpetbaggers in the fundraising wing of the operation - Schaus has done a fine job.
Agreed. Wichita St basketball and baseball did well with our AD. WE did well with our AD. The coaching merry go round is a sticky wicket that depends on a great many things to fall in place. Timing, money, fit are foremost but there are more. Sameka and Saul are not great resume builders. Overall there is good and bad. We have had worse. We will have better and our AD currently has a pretty good lifetime batting average with the skills to get better.
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GoCats105
2/21/2019 12:23 PM
Interesting that his contract lasts until May 15th. There has to be some sort of clause in there regarding "end of season" so Ohio can move forward, right? Or it's generally assumed he won't be back and the length of the contract essentially doesn't matter? Or is that just the term of the contract based on the academic calendar?

I'm not a lawyer so I have questions. Ohio won't have any kind of "buyout" to pay for the month or so when a new coach would presumably be hired, right?



EDIT: nevermind the contract terms are at the bottom of the article and Ohio will have to pay a small fee it seems.
Last Edited: 2/21/2019 12:34:03 PM by GoCats105
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
2/21/2019 12:30 PM
I had a someone who was a beat writer on a pretty big college beat tell me his rule was "Don't make enemies and don't make friends. Earn the respect of those you cover, but keep them at enough distance that you can be truthful when the bleep goes down."

I always thought that was great advice. Makes you seem like a detached jerk at times, but it really does allow you to do what you need to do when the time comes.
Last Edited: 2/21/2019 12:32:20 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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OU_Country
2/21/2019 12:58 PM
Tom Valentino wrote:expand_more
I saw this exchange on Twitter. For what it’s worth, when you said the AD is responsible for the current disaster, I also took that to mean you thought he should be gone.
It may not be that Schaus should be gone, but at some point very soon, in my opinion, Schaus ought to be answering the questions of "How, and Why, did you, or those above you at Ohio University allow for things to get to this point?"

I still find it incredibly odd how much forgiveness this forum is giving Jim or the board of directors, or the president, or whoever is responsible for the situation.....I find it odd that no one is pressing them on the question of why they let it get to this point. Because to me, the decision to cut bait, or extend should have been reached last year to avoid the tremendous mess they've put themselves, and all the people associated with the basketball program in. So while it may not be Schaus' decision, it's absolutely a question he should be asked, and one I think he should be giving an answer to publicly the minute following the decision to replace Saul (which I presume to be what will happen).
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Bobcat Love
2/21/2019 1:07 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
It may not be that Schaus should be gone, but at some point very soon, in my opinion, Schaus ought to be answering the questions of "How, and Why, did you, or those above you at Ohio University allow for things to get to this point?"

I still find it incredibly odd how much forgiveness this forum is giving Jim or the board of directors, or the president, or whoever is responsible for the situation.....I find it odd that no one is pressing them on the question of why they let it get to this point. Because to me, the decision to cut bait, or extend should have been reached last year to avoid the tremendous mess they've put themselves, and all the people associated with the basketball program in. So while it may not be Schaus' decision, it's absolutely a question he should be asked, and one I think he should be giving an answer to publicly the minute following the decision to replace Saul (which I presume to be what will happen).
A. There's one direct person above Schaus - the President. Pretty sure the Trustees are not going to start criticizing recruiting and try to change things mid-stream. McDavis was a supporter of Athletics, he was all-in.

B. What were people supposed to do to prevent the situation from happening? Stop him from hiring Christian after Groce? His track record was Gregg Marshall and John Groce, it wasn't happening. Stop him from hiring Saul? Many apologists thought Christian was a rousing success at the time (idiots) and thought Schaus was batting 1.000 in his hires - so why stop him? Plus, Saul was a warm commodity at the time.

C. What was Schaus supposed to do to prevent this? Stop, change, or intervene in Saul's terrible recruiting? I don't think many AD's do that. Was he supposed to buy Saul out? With our weak ass donor base, that wasn't an option obviously.

I'm not sure what Schaus could have done differently with the exception of the dumb Christian hire, but at the time - who was in a position to argue?? This is really a no fault thing, but you have to clean the mess up in a big way.
Last Edited: 2/21/2019 1:08:52 PM by Bobcat Love
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OU_Country
2/21/2019 1:18 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
It may not be that Schaus should be gone, but at some point very soon, in my opinion, Schaus ought to be answering the questions of "How, and Why, did you, or those above you at Ohio University allow for things to get to this point?"

I still find it incredibly odd how much forgiveness this forum is giving Jim or the board of directors, or the president, or whoever is responsible for the situation.....I find it odd that no one is pressing them on the question of why they let it get to this point. Because to me, the decision to cut bait, or extend should have been reached last year to avoid the tremendous mess they've put themselves, and all the people associated with the basketball program in. So while it may not be Schaus' decision, it's absolutely a question he should be asked, and one I think he should be giving an answer to publicly the minute following the decision to replace Saul (which I presume to be what will happen).
A. There's one direct person above Schaus - the President. Pretty sure the Trustees are not going to start criticizing recruiting and try to change things mid-stream. McDavis was a supporter of Athletics, he was all-in.

B. What were people supposed to do to prevent the situation from happening? Stop him from hiring Christian after Groce? His track record was Gregg Marshall and John Groce, it wasn't happening. Stop him from hiring Saul? Many apologists thought Christian was a rousing success at the time (idiots) and thought Schaus was batting 1.000 in his hires - so why stop him? Plus, Saul was a warm commodity at the time.

C. What was Schaus supposed to do to prevent this? Stop, change, or intervene in Saul's terrible recruiting? I don't think many AD's do that. Was he supposed to buy Saul out? With our weak ass donor base, that wasn't an option obviously.

I'm not sure what Schaus could have done differently with the exception of the dumb Christian hire, but at the time - who was in a position to argue?? This is really a no fault thing, but you have to clean the mess up in a big way.
Fair points. Without knowing the financials, the only questions I would ask in response are:

-How much damage has been done related to ticket sales and donations related to this?
-Would buying him out (essentially, making a decision last year regardless) have been less expensive in the long run in comparison?

I don't have the numbers to say so, but the last two years have to have been really, really bad for the box office. $550,000, or whatever the buyout would have been bad? I don't know. Regardless, I still feel like media should be pressing that line of questioning.
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Bobcat Love
2/21/2019 1:38 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Fair points. Without knowing the financials, the only questions I would ask in response are:

-How much damage has been done related to ticket sales and donations related to this?
-Would buying him out (essentially, making a decision last year regardless) have been less expensive in the long run in comparison?

I don't have the numbers to say so, but the last two years have to have been really, really bad for the box office. $550,000, or whatever the buyout would have been bad? I don't know. Regardless, I still feel like media should be pressing that line of questioning.
Actually, THOSE are great questions. I'm responsible for around -$3,000 by not renewing my two courtside seats this year. I kept my platinum seats but those are on the chopping block next year as well. Not lack of funds, but lack of interest. Real talk.

I think it would be tough to reconcile a $550,000 buyout with hard and soft figures, but I bet it's cost $250,000 - $300,000 by having this year be such a dud.
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Kevin Finnegan
2/21/2019 1:54 PM
We are making it that an AD's job is just to hire/fire coaches. There has to be more to it than that. There is the component of scheduling, which has been suspect in both football and basketball. It certainly hasn't been remarkable.

There is also the in-game experience. From everything on here and in my couple of trips back to the university for football games, there doesn't seem to be anything remarkable there either. I do think it's time to question the leadership we are getting from the AD.
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SBH
2/21/2019 2:02 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Fair points. Without knowing the financials, the only questions I would ask in response are:

-How much damage has been done related to ticket sales and donations related to this?
-Would buying him out (essentially, making a decision last year regardless) have been less expensive in the long run in comparison?

I don't have the numbers to say so, but the last two years have to have been really, really bad for the box office. $550,000, or whatever the buyout would have been bad? I don't know. Regardless, I still feel like media should be pressing that line of questioning.
Actually, THOSE are great questions. I'm responsible for around -$3,000 by not renewing my two courtside seats this year. I kept my platinum seats but those are on the chopping block next year as well. Not lack of funds, but lack of interest. Real talk.

I think it would be tough to reconcile a $550,000 buyout with hard and soft figures, but I bet it's cost $250,000 - $300,000 by having this year be such a dud.
I've moved from courtside to Gold to GA in the past four years. No interest in this product.
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OU_Country
2/21/2019 2:10 PM
finnOhio wrote:expand_more
We are making it that an AD's job is just to hire/fire coaches. There has to be more to it than that. There is the component of scheduling, which has been suspect in both football and basketball. It certainly hasn't been remarkable.

There is also the in-game experience. From everything on here and in my couple of trips back to the university for football games, there doesn't seem to be anything remarkable there either. I do think it's time to question the leadership we are getting from the AD.
What you're saying here is in line with my thoughts of, "He's the CEO of Ohio Athletics. All of this is ultimately responsibility" and that's why I ask the questions of why he's not at least experiencing a warm seat. I know he's not the one running the scoreboard, selling the tickets, or the one training athletes, but he is the CEO, and he should be asked, and frankly, be willing to candidly answer some of these tougher questions. Five years ago, when things were going really well, everything was mostly puppies and rainbows. It's not right now. The measure of his term here will be decided on how he rights the ship in the areas you mention above, among other important things including academics, which seems to be a nice positive across the department.
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Bobcat Love
2/21/2019 2:12 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
We are making it that an AD's job is just to hire/fire coaches. There has to be more to it than that. There is the component of scheduling, which has been suspect in both football and basketball. It certainly hasn't been remarkable.

There is also the in-game experience. From everything on here and in my couple of trips back to the university for football games, there doesn't seem to be anything remarkable there either. I do think it's time to question the leadership we are getting from the AD.
What you're saying here is in line with my thoughts of, "He's the CEO of Ohio Athletics. All of this is ultimately responsibility" and that's why I ask the questions of why he's not at least experiencing a warm seat. I know he's not the one running the scoreboard, selling the tickets, or the one training athletes, but he is the CEO, and he should be asked, and frankly, be willing to candidly answer some of these tougher questions. Five years ago, when things were going really well, everything was mostly puppies and rainbows. It's not right now. The measure of his term here will be decided on how he rights the ship in the areas you mention above, among other important things including academics, which seems to be a nice positive across the department.
He kept saying "it's a great day to be a Bobcat" and we all kept believing him....
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OU_Country
2/21/2019 2:12 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Fair points. Without knowing the financials, the only questions I would ask in response are:

-How much damage has been done related to ticket sales and donations related to this?
-Would buying him out (essentially, making a decision last year regardless) have been less expensive in the long run in comparison?

I don't have the numbers to say so, but the last two years have to have been really, really bad for the box office. $550,000, or whatever the buyout would have been bad? I don't know. Regardless, I still feel like media should be pressing that line of questioning.
Actually, THOSE are great questions. I'm responsible for around -$3,000 by not renewing my two courtside seats this year. I kept my platinum seats but those are on the chopping block next year as well. Not lack of funds, but lack of interest. Real talk.

I think it would be tough to reconcile a $550,000 buyout with hard and soft figures, but I bet it's cost $250,000 - $300,000 by having this year be such a dud.
While my dollars aren't equivalent to yours, my contributions and quantity of tickets bought are less this year, as are those of several people I know. by that logic, I have to think the cost of running out the string has gotten pretty high.
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Pataskala
2/21/2019 2:12 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Interesting that his contract lasts until May 15th. There has to be some sort of clause in there regarding "end of season" so Ohio can move forward, right? Or it's generally assumed he won't be back and the length of the contract essentially doesn't matter? Or is that just the term of the contract based on the academic calendar?

I'm not a lawyer so I have questions. Ohio won't have any kind of "buyout" to pay for the month or so when a new coach would presumably be hired, right?



EDIT: nevermind the contract terms are at the bottom of the article and Ohio will have to pay a small fee it seems.
I think the contract runs til the end of the spring semester so the school can reassign the coach to other teaching or ministerial duties to finish out the contract. Akron didn't fire Bowden; they just reassigned him. I think he combs the fleas out of Zippy's fur.
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bobcat695
2/21/2019 2:34 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Fair points. Without knowing the financials, the only questions I would ask in response are:

-How much damage has been done related to ticket sales and donations related to this?
-Would buying him out (essentially, making a decision last year regardless) have been less expensive in the long run in comparison?

I don't have the numbers to say so, but the last two years have to have been really, really bad for the box office. $550,000, or whatever the buyout would have been bad? I don't know. Regardless, I still feel like media should be pressing that line of questioning.
Actually, THOSE are great questions. I'm responsible for around -$3,000 by not renewing my two courtside seats this year. I kept my platinum seats but those are on the chopping block next year as well. Not lack of funds, but lack of interest. Real talk.

I think it would be tough to reconcile a $550,000 buyout with hard and soft figures, but I bet it's cost $250,000 - $300,000 by having this year be such a dud.
I've moved from courtside to Gold to GA in the past four years. No interest in this product.
I've moved from 4 Bobcat Black seats and 8 GA tickets to zero for the same reason. My savings are over 5K/yr. The 2K football check is gone in the fall.
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OhioCatFan
2/21/2019 2:42 PM
What would it take to bring you back? A new AD? An exciting basketball hire? Just curious.
Last Edited: 2/21/2019 2:42:50 PM by OhioCatFan
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OU_Country
2/21/2019 4:04 PM
This thread, and the lines of questioning are enlightening re: the donations and money lost. Between the admissions of changes in ticket buying in this thread alone, plus what I know of from people I know, I'm seeing at minimum $11,000 and maybe up to $15,000 in revenue lost with 5-8 different families/alumni who are/were season ticket holders that have left altogether, or changed their buying choices. Compile that across the whole of the fanbase, and it could be a huge impact.
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GoCats105
2/21/2019 4:09 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
This thread, and the lines of questioning are enlightening re: the donations and money lost. Between the admissions of changes in ticket buying in this thread alone, plus what I know of from people I know, I'm seeing at minimum $11,000 and maybe up to $15,000 in revenue lost with 5-8 different families/alumni who are/were season ticket holders that have left altogether, or changed their buying choices. Compile that across the whole of the fanbase, and it could be a huge impact.
And that's only taking into account the tickets.
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OU_Country
2/21/2019 4:30 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
This thread, and the lines of questioning are enlightening re: the donations and money lost. Between the admissions of changes in ticket buying in this thread alone, plus what I know of from people I know, I'm seeing at minimum $11,000 and maybe up to $15,000 in revenue lost with 5-8 different families/alumni who are/were season ticket holders that have left altogether, or changed their buying choices. Compile that across the whole of the fanbase, and it could be a huge impact.
And that's only taking into account the tickets.
Sort of - my methodology was to estimate the costs of tickets plus OBC required donation from here: http://ohiobobcats.com/tickets/mbb-tickets-18-19

I'm not accounting for things like concessions bought, or the potential for parking money. And I'm only guessing based off those who have spoken up in this thread, myself, and about 3 families I know personally that have reduced their spending significantly.

Still, this is eye opening.
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