Actual things I've read about John Groce through the years on this site.

"John Groce is overrated."
"John Groce owes his career to Armon Bassett."
"John Groce just got lucky in March...that's all."
"John Groce got a great draw facing Michigan and South Florida in the NCAA Tournament."
"I'd rather have a coach that wins regular season MAC Championships than a coach who hung a Sweet 16 banner."
"The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity."

However, I do remember a few on here who supported what I've always said about Groce. This quote stuck out from Buck.Cat

"People still do not realize how good we had it with Groce."

Thanks Buck...we were reminded of just that on a day when we celebrated 50 years of basketball at The Convo.

February 2, 2019
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Year 2 of Groce Akron Era 65
Year 5 of Saul Ohio Era 53
(And if you watched the game...you know Akron could have won this by 30 if it wanted too)

I guess it's only fitting that on the most anticipated day of the home hoops schedule this season that Groce drops the hammer on Saul. Dear lord almighty I have never, ever been more embarrassed to be an Ohio Bobcats basketball fan. That was atrocious today. March 17th can't get here soon enough.

Akron is mediocre at best. Hadn't won on the road until today. So let's hold off on the crowning of JC as the next John Wooden.

Every MAC team, including WMU, would have spanked us today.

Hahahaha. Christian "destroyed" what Groce left? Christian won 74% of MAC games here; Groce 53%. We all acknowledge Groce had one good year here. Heck, after 3 years in Athens he was 23- 25 in MAC games (7-9, 7-9, 9-7). His 4 years here were 6th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in conference play; Christian was 1st and 3rd. Christian followed Groce's 9-7 year with 14-2. That is destroying things? And you want to bring him back? Based on what? His 36% winning percentage in MAC games at Akron? Would he bring thugs who get into fights also?

Interesting. In the football threads, it’s all about winning the MACC. And this in a sport where it is literally impossible for Ohio to win a national championship.

Yet, in hoops for whatever reason we care what Ohio’s record is in the regular season and downgrade what happens in the MAC Tourney. In a sport where Ohio actually can win a national championship, we denigrate a coach who took us within 2 games of the Final 4 and a legit shot at winning it all. If Solich did that in football the guy would have a statue built on the College Green by now.

Wait a minute Jerry....we aren't allowed to discuss an Ohio player shooting 27% from the field in nine MAC games. A player that his own coach referenced in a post-game interview following a terrible team performance, but you just called some 19-21 year old Akron players...thugs. Alrighty then.

Not apologizing for Saul. As I have said many times on here, JC had a mutiny happening and you better believe that Maurice N'Dour would have been an Iowa State Cyclone had he stayed for year 3. Christian did destroy anything of a house built at OU. The only good recruits he brought in in two years were Campbell, Mo, and Setty. He had his shares of duds and you better believe Bean had an arrest warrant against his rear end too like his buddy Wingfield. Funny how we forget that era that happened.

Nonetheless, not looking good for the current staff though.

In two years JC only managed to find our only player to get a cup of coffee in the NBA in 15 years and a MAC player of the year.

That seems good to me.

GMan is about to tell you his life history and how he doesn’t need a college degree, and oh, don’t be critical.

Then by this logic I guess that is going to make Cooper at Fiami a successful coach when it's all said and done because he brought in Weathers who will be in the NBA, or for that matter Dan Dakich a great coach because he had Keith McCloud.....the building blocks that Christian left were made of quick sand and had no foundation for the next coach.

Landing a couple good players (Ndour, Campbell) doesn't make you a good recruiter. A good recruiter is able to bring in athletes that comprise a TEAM that will play well together and win games. I could care less about the individual talent of 1-2 guys. Was Jim Christian successful in building such a team? Not even close. Things were crumbling as he left. And he was only here 2 years!

By any objective measure, both of Schaus' hires after Groce have been failures. They may have been good hires "on paper", but Schaus gets paid the big bucks to make hires that will work - not just those that look good to folks like us. IMO, he ignored the most important thing with any hire: fit.

He clearly misread Christian's intentions. Rather than "coming home" to the MAC, he was looking to escape a bad spot at TCU (as they moved up to the Big 12) and use our existing talent to parlay into a big-money P5 job. Kudos to JC for making it work.

As for Saul, Schaus picked him because of one win in the NCAA Tournament. If NDSU doesn't upset Oklahoma, no way Saul is lured in our direction. Saul inherited a solid program at NDSU, and was able to keep things going at a high level. I think Saul is more of a "maintainer" than a "builder". And, while many on the outside didn't see it, our program needed a "build" after the JC departure and the tinder box of personalities he left behind.

Schaus overplayed his hand twice. Once Groce left, he wanted a "splash" hire of a guy with tons of HC experience who had won in the MAC. He got it, but didn't think about the long-term consequences. Going to the other end of the spectrum, Saul's hire was made primarily with longevity in mind. He wanted someone who would stay a while and didn't have the "itch" to jump to the next job. Mission accomplished - but he got a rather average coach who is better left to maintain, not build.

Where do we go from here? Who knows. I expect Schaus will go back to more of the Christian mold - hiring a proven winner, maybe a guy fired or on the downside from a bigger program. The issue this time around will be the lack of support from Cutler Hall, and relatively lack of funding too.

I think what you're describing is the core challenge that faces OU athletics in general. Successful coaches will leave, mediocre ones wont. And as a result, when a program's had some success, our AD will have to make a lot of hiring decisions, and hiring decisions are hard.

Jim Christian was involved in a fistfight with one of his assistants during a practice, in front of players.

Maurice N'Dour claimed Christian and/or said assistant offered him $50k to come to Athens.

His two team leaders - DJ and Walt Offutt - quit on him in important games.

Clearly that hire was a failure.

If I had a $100 for every time I've seen this debate tactic used on BA, I'd be a rich man and could endow our basketball program and end all our financial woes! ;-)