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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Future Coach
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Bobcat1996
2/26/2019 7:57 PM
Would Ohio's AD and the fans be so quick to dismiss the present coach if his salary was $350,000? This institution over paid for Saul from the start. I am concerned they will pay more than they should for the next coach. Most everyone likes Saul and knows he is a great person in the Athens community, but the bottom line is that the Bobcats are not successful. His teams have had a great deal of bad luck with injuries. They have a nice nucleus returning and have Dartis redshirting, so maybe they will be a top 3-4 MAC team next season? The team should be better next season. Hypothetical question. What salary should the next coach get? Is $500,000 the asking price?
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left lane, hammer down
2/26/2019 9:44 PM
BobcatBeReal wrote:expand_more
Look, I know I’m not going to change the minds of those of you that went to the school of “fire the coach” if it isn’t working. I just want to give the readers the other side. I come from a different school, one that believes that you build a program by having quality people and build a program with high character players, solving problems as needed as you maintain continuity, something we haven’t had in years.
What I like about our program now is,
- We have a terrific coach that not only is a great coach but also an outstanding person. He wants to be at Ohio and build a program. He has never seen Ohio as a stepping-stone to a bigger school.
- He has recruited high character players, like James Gallon that will leave our program and become a physician and Gavin Block that will be a college coach in the very near future. You knock his recruiting but Jason Carter was not just another player lost last year, he was a member of the all-freshman team the year before. He is another high character player that is also an honor student. We were supposed to have had Ben last year. He is freshman this year averaging at double-digit points. Also, an honor student. And then there is TK, who last year was also, ALL-MAC freshman selection and also made honor role. Excuse me, but if you have two all freshman selections in two years out of two, your not losing the recruiting battle. The battle we’ve lost is the injury battle. If you have had the opportunity to communicate with our players, you would understand that these are high character student athletes that will leave Ohio and become successful citizens. These are the type of players that eventually lead you to a championship. And I repeat, IF COACH PHILLIPS IS HERE, we will have two freshman and two sophomores coming back that are our most productive players this year. If he doesn’t, not sure what we have coming back. I’m still of the believe that you build programs with character…….High character coaches that are going to do it the right way, and high character players that you can be proud of that they represent our university. His recruiting misses have come when he was under the gun, like when we lost Jaaron.
- He and his family have been a great fit in the Athens community, making valuable contributions. Again, this speaks to character and someone that cares about the community they are a part.
If our best four players were seniors, I’d be all about looking at a change but they aren’t. Our best five players are one that’s not playing this year, two sophomores and two freshmen. I’d ride this out another year.
I know that some of you just want to win, you don’t care how it gets done. Some of you probably don’t care if we start doing what Buffalo is doing. I understand, I just don’t want to go there. Some of you want a coach to come in and use JUCO character players to get the job done. I’ve seen that picture, not pretty, not for me.
I’m more about wanting a quality program with quality players.
Thanks for listening to me. I’m done, not going to respond any further. And by the way, YES, I know I’m fighting an uphill battle but I hate to see us lose a really good man and great coach.

+1 Finally a voice of reason.
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BuddyLee
2/26/2019 10:44 PM
I don’t think too many coaches are going to take a 1 year contract.
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71 BOBCAT
2/27/2019 8:21 AM
As I read through all these posts it appears to me many on this board feel Saul is a good man and active in the community, those are admirable qualities.
The next key part of this discussion is all about the injuries he has had to deal with. These these injuries probably effected the W-L record. This to is probably true.
We then discussed his salary and what that number equates to in terms of expectations.
I seem to remember that the football program has had to endure a few seasons with many injuries and yet Solich kept the program moving forward and registered winning seasons.
I honestly believe that we overpaid for Saul, and in the end he did not deliver wins. Is not the position of a coach is to win games, and help the players do well in the classroom as well as stay out of trouble? Every job requires people to perform and then be reviewed on their performance. In today's environment of college athletics winning is very important, and Saul did not perform well in this part of his job function. I think that if the AD felt Saul was experiencing too many injuries but the other areas of his performance met or beat expectation he probably would have extended his contract before this season started as a show of support to the players and the university. It now appears that we are on tract to have another loosing season and the AD is under pressure to make a change.
Our BB program has always been seen as the best, consistently performing major varsity sport, at Ohio, and Saul has not performed in that tradition.





GO BOBCATS
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rpbobcat
2/27/2019 9:25 AM
71 BOBCAT wrote:expand_more
As I read through all these posts it appears to me many on this board feel Saul is a good man and active in the community, those are admirable qualities.
The next key part of this discussion is all about the injuries he has had to deal with. These these injuries probably effected the W-L record. This to is probably true.
We then discussed his salary and what that number equates to in terms of expectations.
I seem to remember that the football program has had to endure a few seasons with many injuries and yet Solich kept the program moving forward and registered winning seasons.
I honestly believe that we overpaid for Saul, and in the end he did not deliver wins. Is not the position of a coach is to win games, and help the players do well in the classroom as well as stay out of trouble? Every job requires people to perform and then be reviewed on their performance. In today's environment of college athletics winning is very important, and Saul did not perform well in this part of his job function. I think that if the AD felt Saul was experiencing too many injuries but the other areas of his performance met or beat expectation he probably would have extended his contract before this season started as a show of support to the players and the university. It now appears that we are on tract to have another loosing season and the AD is under pressure to make a change.
Our BB program has always been seen as the best, consistently performing major varsity sport, at Ohio, and Saul has not performed in that tradition.





GO BOBCATS
Just wondering if anyone thinks that there's the possibility of O.U. offering Saul a new contract with a significantly reduced salary,and heavy on incentives, and changing his staff to include someone for recruiting ?

Also wonder if anyone thinks that,if they did,he'd take it ?
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OU_Country
2/27/2019 10:46 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Just wondering if anyone thinks that there's the possibility of O.U. offering Saul a new contract with a significantly reduced salary,and heavy on incentives, and changing his staff to include someone for recruiting ?

Also wonder if anyone thinks that,if they did,he'd take it ?
I preface what follows by saying that I don't know anything about the contract situation we've pondered on for the better part of 18 months....

BUT...who says they didn't already do something to this affect and were turned down? Coaches, from my Wednesday morning QB seat, always seem to be really loyal to their own guys. Maybe that was a conversation that came up, and he said he wasn't getting rid of any of his guys? Maybe.

At the end of the day, the biggest issue I see with retaining Saul and his staff as constituted right now, is selling it to ticket buying, OBC buying fans. That's a tough sell, regardless of how liked as a person he is by a lot of people.

Assuming this was part of the conversation, I think he/they would be crazy not to take it though. It's likely that there's not another D1 job out there for next year that's going to hire this group at what they're making now.

Bobcat1996 asks a great question as well: If the salary was 350k, or 400k, would the reaction still be the same here? For me, what he makes has minimal bearing on my opinions of the situation.
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rpbobcat
2/27/2019 11:02 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Just wondering if anyone thinks that there's the possibility of O.U. offering Saul a new contract with a significantly reduced salary,and heavy on incentives, and changing his staff to include someone for recruiting ?

Also wonder if anyone thinks that,if they did,he'd take it ?
I preface what follows by saying that I don't know anything about the contract situation we've pondered on for the better part of 18 months....

BUT...who says they didn't already do something to this affect and were turned down? Coaches, from my Wednesday morning QB seat, always seem to be really loyal to their own guys. Maybe that was a conversation that came up, and he said he wasn't getting rid of any of his guys? Maybe.

At the end of the day, the biggest issue I see with retaining Saul and his staff as constituted right now, is selling it to ticket buying, OBC buying fans. That's a tough sell, regardless of how liked as a person he is by a lot of people.

Assuming this was part of the conversation, I think he/they would be crazy not to take it though. It's likely that there's not another D1 job out there for next year that's going to hire this group at what they're making now.

Bobcat1996 asks a great question as well: If the salary was 350k, or 400k, would the reaction still be the same here? For me, what he makes has minimal bearing on my opinions of the situation.
I think there are 2 issues when it comes to possibly keeping Saul and his staff.

First,is,just as you point out,what impact that would have on tickets.
Without somewhat of a staff shake up,particularly in the area of recruiting,I don't see it.

Second,is how much the current administration is willing to "pony up" for a new coach and staff and who they could get for that price.

I also agree that,if it was offered,Saul and company would be crazy not to take
it.

Guess we'll see how this plays out in a couple of weeks.
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OU_Country
2/27/2019 11:19 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Just wondering if anyone thinks that there's the possibility of O.U. offering Saul a new contract with a significantly reduced salary,and heavy on incentives, and changing his staff to include someone for recruiting ?

Also wonder if anyone thinks that,if they did,he'd take it ?
I preface what follows by saying that I don't know anything about the contract situation we've pondered on for the better part of 18 months....

BUT...who says they didn't already do something to this affect and were turned down? Coaches, from my Wednesday morning QB seat, always seem to be really loyal to their own guys. Maybe that was a conversation that came up, and he said he wasn't getting rid of any of his guys? Maybe.

At the end of the day, the biggest issue I see with retaining Saul and his staff as constituted right now, is selling it to ticket buying, OBC buying fans. That's a tough sell, regardless of how liked as a person he is by a lot of people.

Assuming this was part of the conversation, I think he/they would be crazy not to take it though. It's likely that there's not another D1 job out there for next year that's going to hire this group at what they're making now.

Bobcat1996 asks a great question as well: If the salary was 350k, or 400k, would the reaction still be the same here? For me, what he makes has minimal bearing on my opinions of the situation.
I think there are 2 issues when it comes to possibly keeping Saul and his staff.

First,is,just as you point out,what impact that would have on tickets.
Without somewhat of a staff shake up,particularly in the area of recruiting,I don't see it.

Second,is how much the current administration is willing to "pony up" for a new coach and staff and who they could get for that price.

I also agree that,if it was offered,Saul and company would be crazy not to take
it.

Guess we'll see how this plays out in a couple of weeks.
That part in here about "ponying up" will be the interesting part to me. I've been of the assumption for at least a month that the changing of the guard is going to happen. The question about how much they're willing to pay, and how important it is to them to attempt to return to the top third of the MAC on a regular basis is the real question I'm looking to learn the answer to.
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OhioCatFan
2/27/2019 1:11 PM
left lane, hammer down wrote:expand_more
Look, I know I’m not going to change the minds of those of you that went to the school of “fire the coach” if it isn’t working. I just want to give the readers the other side. I come from a different school, one that believes that you build a program by having quality people and build a program with high character players, solving problems as needed as you maintain continuity, something we haven’t had in years.
What I like about our program now is,
- We have a terrific coach that not only is a great coach but also an outstanding person. He wants to be at Ohio and build a program. He has never seen Ohio as a stepping-stone to a bigger school.
- He has recruited high character players, like James Gallon that will leave our program and become a physician and Gavin Block that will be a college coach in the very near future. You knock his recruiting but Jason Carter was not just another player lost last year, he was a member of the all-freshman team the year before. He is another high character player that is also an honor student. We were supposed to have had Ben last year. He is freshman this year averaging at double-digit points. Also, an honor student. And then there is TK, who last year was also, ALL-MAC freshman selection and also made honor role. Excuse me, but if you have two all freshman selections in two years out of two, your not losing the recruiting battle. The battle we’ve lost is the injury battle. If you have had the opportunity to communicate with our players, you would understand that these are high character student athletes that will leave Ohio and become successful citizens. These are the type of players that eventually lead you to a championship. And I repeat, IF COACH PHILLIPS IS HERE, we will have two freshman and two sophomores coming back that are our most productive players this year. If he doesn’t, not sure what we have coming back. I’m still of the believe that you build programs with character…….High character coaches that are going to do it the right way, and high character players that you can be proud of that they represent our university. His recruiting misses have come when he was under the gun, like when we lost Jaaron.
- He and his family have been a great fit in the Athens community, making valuable contributions. Again, this speaks to character and someone that cares about the community they are a part.
If our best four players were seniors, I’d be all about looking at a change but they aren’t. Our best five players are one that’s not playing this year, two sophomores and two freshmen. I’d ride this out another year.
I know that some of you just want to win, you don’t care how it gets done. Some of you probably don’t care if we start doing what Buffalo is doing. I understand, I just don’t want to go there. Some of you want a coach to come in and use JUCO character players to get the job done. I’ve seen that picture, not pretty, not for me.
I’m more about wanting a quality program with quality players.
Thanks for listening to me. I’m done, not going to respond any further. And by the way, YES, I know I’m fighting an uphill battle but I hate to see us lose a really good man and great coach.

+1 Finally a voice of reason.
+2
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FearLeon
2/27/2019 1:23 PM
BuddyLee wrote:expand_more
I don’t think too many coaches are going to take a 1 year contract.
And that's basically what Saul was working on this season since AD didn't give him an extension after year 4....a 1 year contract. One year to win and show an upward trajectory with this program. Saul knew if he didn't get results...he was gone. Results aren't there. Program is sliding downhill. Thus, Saul is gone.
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
2/27/2019 2:50 PM
If Ohio simply wants a quality person who does things right and is not worried about winning all that much, there are much cheaper options than Saul Phillips.
Last Edited: 2/27/2019 2:51:16 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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GoCats105
2/27/2019 3:23 PM
Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
If Ohio simply wants a quality person who does things right and is not worried about winning all that much, there are much cheaper options than Saul Phillips.
100% and I think that's the point people aren't getting. If that's the goal, then pay half of what SP makes.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
2/27/2019 5:21 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
If Ohio simply wants a quality person who does things right and is not worried about winning all that much, there are much cheaper options than Saul Phillips.
100% and I think that's the point people aren't getting. If that's the goal, then pay half of what SP makes.
+1

Or....if folks want to keep him they can pony up the money to keep him around. And judging by the attendance......and you haven't.....the Bobcats have lost a game or two and are slipping into the cellar.

But seriously, ticket sales and development revenue are down big time. Obviously no cause of the coaching staff's own initially, but the losing has now started to chime in with the incompetence. Again, Schaus could have extended him two years ago, but was too busy going for AD jobs (Pitt, WVU, Purdue, K-State, etc.) Just a rough list I've gotten from my sources
Last Edited: 2/27/2019 8:09:39 PM by Buckeye to Bobcat
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Buck.Cat
2/27/2019 8:44 PM
Wait, I thought everyone was on board that we were moving on after this season from Saul? I cannot comprehend the argument for extending him. Worst team in the MAC East. Ugly basketball. Subpar recruiting. If you cannot win in 5 years, you are not winning under a new extension.
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mid70sbobcat
2/27/2019 10:05 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
As I read through all these posts it appears to me many on this board feel Saul is a good man and active in the community, those are admirable qualities.
The next key part of this discussion is all about the injuries he has had to deal with. These these injuries probably effected the W-L record. This to is probably true.
We then discussed his salary and what that number equates to in terms of expectations.
I seem to remember that the football program has had to endure a few seasons with many injuries and yet Solich kept the program moving forward and registered winning seasons.
I honestly believe that we overpaid for Saul, and in the end he did not deliver wins. Is not the position of a coach is to win games, and help the players do well in the classroom as well as stay out of trouble? Every job requires people to perform and then be reviewed on their performance. In today's environment of college athletics winning is very important, and Saul did not perform well in this part of his job function. I think that if the AD felt Saul was experiencing too many injuries but the other areas of his performance met or beat expectation he probably would have extended his contract before this season started as a show of support to the players and the university. It now appears that we are on tract to have another loosing season and the AD is under pressure to make a change.
Our BB program has always been seen as the best, consistently performing major varsity sport, at Ohio, and Saul has not performed in that tradition.





GO BOBCATS
Just wondering if anyone thinks that there's the possibility of O.U. offering Saul a new contract with a significantly reduced salary,and heavy on incentives, and changing his staff to include someone for recruiting ?

Also wonder if anyone thinks that,if they did,he'd take it ?
My thoughts exactly. Offer his a one year extension at say $350K. If he thinks he has some talent and injuries have been bigger than many here is reality then he may accept it.
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71 BOBCAT
2/28/2019 7:57 AM
I do not share the same thoughts on offering Saul, a 1 year extension, at a reduced salary to see if the results change for next year. If after 5 years we haven't seen the expected results then just cut the cord.
Ohio is a great university the the BB program has a great history.




GO BOBCATS
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Recovering Journalist
2/28/2019 7:59 AM
mid70sbobcat wrote:expand_more
My thoughts exactly. Offer his a one year extension at say $350K. If he thinks he has some talent and injuries have been bigger than many here is reality then he may accept it.
Fantastic. One more year of limbo coupled with declining crowds and mediocre (at best) hoops.

On the other side of the coin, it's hard to see any coach accept a 36% pay cut.

The SP era is over as soon as this team gets pounded like a minute steak on the road in the MAC Tournament.
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catfan28
2/28/2019 8:00 AM
Honestly, I could get behind the one-year extension concept (or perhaps even a 2-year with a low buyout).

Saul may be a better coach than most we could get on the open market given the financial constraints that are going to be present. The grass may seem greener, but alternatively we could get into Eastern Michigan territory (football, not basketball) of a revolving door of coaches that never gets us out of the cellar.
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DJCooperBurnerAccount
2/28/2019 10:38 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
My thoughts exactly. Offer his a one year extension at say $350K. If he thinks he has some talent and injuries have been bigger than many here is reality then he may accept it.
Fantastic. One more year of limbo coupled with declining crowds and mediocre (at best) hoops.

On the other side of the coin, it's hard to see any coach accept a 36% pay cut.

The SP era is over as soon as this team gets pounded like a minute steak on the road in the MAC Tournament.
Hey! I have a dead cat I'll sell you for $50. Oh, you don't want it? Would you want it for $35? No... I don't want Phillips for $500k, nor do I want him for $350k. It doesn't matter how much you pay, you're still buying a dead cat..
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Maddog13
2/28/2019 11:28 AM
Breaking up is always hard to do, but, sometimes, you just have to cut your losses and move forward. It is really hard to imagine people looking back on the Saul era here at Ohio with a whole lot of desire to repeat it. He did his best, but it just hasn't worked. The MAC got a whole lot better since Saul started; however, Ohio Men's basketball has not. Live and learn.
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colobobcat66
2/28/2019 11:48 AM
catfan28 wrote:expand_more
Honestly, I could get behind the one-year extension concept (or perhaps even a 2-year with a low buyout).

Saul may be a better coach than most we could get on the open market given the financial constraints that are going to be present. The grass may seem greener, but alternatively we could get into Eastern Michigan territory (football, not basketball) of a revolving door of coaches that never gets us out of the cellar.
Going to have to use another football loser since Creighton has been there 5 years now and finished second in the west last year. I think he’s turned it around there.
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catfan28
2/28/2019 2:45 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Going to have to use another football loser since Creighton has been there 5 years now and finished second in the west last year. I think he’s turned it around there.
Obviously, I was talking about pre-Creighton years. I think they finally found their guy and have a ton of respect for him doing something that no one else could do.

But before that, it was a revolving door of Rasnick, Woodruff, Genyk and English all being replaced after 4-5 years of ineptitude.
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greencat
2/28/2019 5:51 PM
Ya know, I was looking at this video of Dustin Ford from when he was an assistant at Illinois. He really has the "head coach" demeanor. Good at communicating without the glad-handing and baby kissing that goes with certain "even worse than Saul" current disasters. (cough-cough, Bryce Drew, cough)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTP-82eAxqY
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Buck.Cat
2/28/2019 8:47 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Fantastic. One more year of limbo coupled with declining crowds and mediocre (at best) hoops.

On the other side of the coin, it's hard to see any coach accept a 36% pay cut.

The SP era is over as soon as this team gets pounded like a minute steak on the road in the MAC Tournament.
Is a 5 year sample not enough for Saulcoholics? Is being the worst team in the MAC East not enough of an eye opener? I'm just trying to figure out what Saul has done this season that warrants even a consideration of an extension.
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mid70sbobcat
2/28/2019 9:59 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
My thoughts exactly. Offer his a one year extension at say $350K. If he thinks he has some talent and injuries have been bigger than many here is reality then he may accept it.
Fantastic. One more year of limbo coupled with declining crowds and mediocre (at best) hoops.

On the other side of the coin, it's hard to see any coach accept a 36% pay cut.

The SP era is over as soon as this team gets pounded like a minute steak on the road in the MAC Tournament.

The decline in attendance is a lot more than attributing it to Saul. It's across the nation.

Next, if Saul thinks he can produce without all the injuries he'd likely consider such an offer.

Third, you're likely a journalist and probably never played ball beyond 4th grade. Saul goes and some of the 'talent' goes too.
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