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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
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OU_Country
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Posted: 9/12/2019 10:59 AM
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Other than the US Congress, is there a more out of touch group of old farts, than these folks running the NCAA? It's terrible, and the investigation into basketball programs that was just done did almost nothing useful to make improvements to the system.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2019/09/11/nc... /
Maddog13
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Posted: 9/12/2019 11:16 AM
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Oh,my. The poor NCAA. Could it be that the flood gates of change are about to wash them completely away? I must admit that I never imagined that marijuana would start to become legal, so why not the idea that college players get paid? (Like they don't get paid anyway at certain high profile programs.) Please. What a fallacy. It is about time that the NCAA gets taken out with the rest of the trash.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/12/2019 11:34 AM
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As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing. The legal implications of this for its state universities were just not considered. It's likely that courts will rule that these athletes are professionals, and that will be a nightmare for the universities involved. It will jeopardize these universities non-profit status. The fact that the payments are going directly to the players and not through the university will not, in the end, make any legal distinction, IMHO. I'm not a great fan of the NCAA, but in this case they are completely right to oppose this ill-considered piece of legislation. I know I'm in the minority on this board in what I've said in this post, but just watch how this plays out. It ain't going to be pretty, and it has the potential of destroying college athletics as we know them. In some ways that's not a bad thing, but this ain't the way to do it.
Ohio69
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Posted: 9/12/2019 12:37 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing. The legal implications of this for its state universities were just not considered. It's likely that courts will rule that these athletes are professionals, and that will be a nightmare for the universities involved. It will jeopardize these universities non-profit status. The fact that the payments are going directly to the players and not through the university will not, in the end, make any legal distinction, IMHO. I'm not a great fan of the NCAA, but in this case they are completely right to oppose this ill-considered piece of legislation. I know I'm in the minority on this board in what I've said in this post, but just watch how this plays out. It ain't going to be pretty, and it has the potential of destroying college athletics as we know them. In some ways that's not a bad thing, but this ain't the way to do it.
Hmmmm. Why do you think it would jeopardize non-profit status?

I think California may know exactly what it is doing and is trying to blow this whole thing up, regardless of whatever headaches it causes.

I don't understand why the NCAA is a target at all. If athletes do not like the NCAA rules, they are free to play somewhere else and get paid. Happens non-stop in just about every sport. Baseball, hockey, soccer, tennis, etc. For basketball, if you want to get paid go play in the NBA's D League or europe for australia or wherever. For football, well, good luck but why is it the NCAA fault there is no alternative sport for football?
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 9/12/2019 12:55 PM
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And OCF NEVER starts a GOP v. Dem rhubarb on this site.

OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing.
Subtle, maybe, but still a dig at the left. If this turns into a 5-page back-and-forth, I'm confident OCF will claim he didn't start it - he was only replying to a anti-GOP post.
Last Edited: 9/12/2019 1:01:14 PM by bobcatsquared
OU_Country
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Posted: 9/12/2019 1:48 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing. The legal implications of this for its state universities were just not considered. It's likely that courts will rule that these athletes are professionals, and that will be a nightmare for the universities involved. It will jeopardize these universities non-profit status. The fact that the payments are going directly to the players and not through the university will not, in the end, make any legal distinction, IMHO. I'm not a great fan of the NCAA, but in this case they are completely right to oppose this ill-considered piece of legislation. I know I'm in the minority on this board in what I've said in this post, but just watch how this plays out. It ain't going to be pretty, and it has the potential of destroying college athletics as we know them. In some ways that's not a bad thing, but this ain't the way to do it.
Hmmmm. Why do you think it would jeopardize non-profit status?

I think California may know exactly what it is doing and is trying to blow this whole thing up, regardless of whatever headaches it causes.

I don't understand why the NCAA is a target at all. If athletes do not like the NCAA rules, they are free to play somewhere else and get paid. Happens non-stop in just about every sport. Baseball, hockey, soccer, tennis, etc. For basketball, if you want to get paid go play in the NBA's D League or europe for australia or wherever. For football, well, good luck but why is it the NCAA fault there is no alternative sport for football?
You make some good points. The problem with the NCAA, much like the remainder of the country, is that the gap between the haves, and the have nots, has grown noticeably larger over the last couple decades. While OU isn't making a profit on athletics, OSU, for example, is making a substantial profit. Of course with that profit, they fund many sports that wouldn't otherwise be offered at OSU. It's a sticky slope, but the dollars have become so huge that the spotlight ends up on these situations.
Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 9/12/2019 2:56 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing. The legal implications of this for its state universities were just not considered. It's likely that courts will rule that these athletes are professionals, and that will be a nightmare for the universities involved. It will jeopardize these universities non-profit status. The fact that the payments are going directly to the players and not through the university will not, in the end, make any legal distinction, IMHO. I'm not a great fan of the NCAA, but in this case they are completely right to oppose this ill-considered piece of legislation. I know I'm in the minority on this board in what I've said in this post, but just watch how this plays out. It ain't going to be pretty, and it has the potential of destroying college athletics as we know them. In some ways that's not a bad thing, but this ain't the way to do it.
Hmmmm. Why do you think it would jeopardize non-profit status?

I think California may know exactly what it is doing and is trying to blow this whole thing up, regardless of whatever headaches it causes.

I don't understand why the NCAA is a target at all. If athletes do not like the NCAA rules, they are free to play somewhere else and get paid. Happens non-stop in just about every sport. Baseball, hockey, soccer, tennis, etc. For basketball, if you want to get paid go play in the NBA's D League or europe for australia or wherever. For football, well, good luck but why is it the NCAA fault there is no alternative sport for football?
I think the issue with NCAA football is that there is obvious collusion with the NFL. The requirement that players must be out of HS for three years before they can play in the NFL is definitely an agreement between the two organizations.

As for basketball, that is about to go back to the right way when players can opt for the league instead of college. This should be allowed in all sports. If the NFL doesn't feel that players are physically ready at 18, then it's up to the player to determine the best plan of action.

I think another thing the NCAA should/could do is allow players to return to playing at college if they're not drafted. Tyree Jackson should be able to return to college if he wanted to do so.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/12/2019 2:57 PM
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bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
And OCF NEVER starts a GOP v. Dem rhubarb on this site.

As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing.
Subtle, maybe, but still a dig at the left. If this turns into a 5-page back-and-forth, I'm confident OCF will claim he didn't start it - he was only replying to a anti-GOP post.
No the vote in the California legislature was unanimous, so this is not a Dem v. GOP thing, it's a stupid California thing.
Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 9/12/2019 4:30 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
And OCF NEVER starts a GOP v. Dem rhubarb on this site.

As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing.
Subtle, maybe, but still a dig at the left. If this turns into a 5-page back-and-forth, I'm confident OCF will claim he didn't start it - he was only replying to a anti-GOP post.
No the vote in the California legislature was unanimous, so this is not a Dem v. GOP thing, it's a stupid California thing.
Oh, I don't know. California seems to really have their act together, at least budgetarily: https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/dec... /

California also has the second-highest life expectancy of any state in the nation, behind only Hawaii: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_ter...

Their per-capita income is among the highest in the nation, more than $11,000 above the national average (122% of the national average): http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/per-capita-income... /

The CDC rates it as the third least obese state in the nation (behind Colorado and Hawaii): https://www.consumerprotect.com/hot-topics/worst-eating-a... /

They are the 8th safest state for firearm deaths, though just better than half of all states in all homicides: http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/crime-rate-by-state /

Much more subjectively, but California was determined to have the 5th happiest population: http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/happiest-states /

Sorry if I'm letting facts get in the way of a good narrative.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 9/12/2019 6:21 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing. The legal implications of this for its state universities were just not considered. It's likely that courts will rule that these athletes are professionals, and that will be a nightmare for the universities involved. It will jeopardize these universities non-profit status. The fact that the payments are going directly to the players and not through the university will not, in the end, make any legal distinction, IMHO. I'm not a great fan of the NCAA, but in this case they are completely right to oppose this ill-considered piece of legislation. I know I'm in the minority on this board in what I've said in this post, but just watch how this plays out. It ain't going to be pretty, and it has the potential of destroying college athletics as we know them. In some ways that's not a bad thing, but this ain't the way to do it.
Curious which labor laws you're drawing that conclusion from? Olympic athletes are able to accept endorsement money without jeopardizing their amateur status, and I have trouble understanding how an endorsement deal in which an athlete is paid by a private entity with no connection to the University would imply employment by the University.
Buckeye to Bobcat
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Posted: 9/12/2019 6:26 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing. The legal implications of this for its state universities were just not considered. It's likely that courts will rule that these athletes are professionals, and that will be a nightmare for the universities involved. It will jeopardize these universities non-profit status. The fact that the payments are going directly to the players and not through the university will not, in the end, make any legal distinction, IMHO. I'm not a great fan of the NCAA, but in this case they are completely right to oppose this ill-considered piece of legislation. I know I'm in the minority on this board in what I've said in this post, but just watch how this plays out. It ain't going to be pretty, and it has the potential of destroying college athletics as we know them. In some ways that's not a bad thing, but this ain't the way to do it.
Hmmmm. Why do you think it would jeopardize non-profit status?

I think California may know exactly what it is doing and is trying to blow this whole thing up, regardless of whatever headaches it causes.

I don't understand why the NCAA is a target at all. If athletes do not like the NCAA rules, they are free to play somewhere else and get paid. Happens non-stop in just about every sport. Baseball, hockey, soccer, tennis, etc. For basketball, if you want to get paid go play in the NBA's D League or europe for australia or wherever. For football, well, good luck but why is it the NCAA fault there is no alternative sport for football?
Because California needs the tax revenue. I can’t wait to see this get castrated and a new 30 for 30 “Broke: College Edition” comes out
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Posted: 9/12/2019 7:01 PM
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finnOhio wrote:expand_more
And OCF NEVER starts a GOP v. Dem rhubarb on this site.

As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing.
Subtle, maybe, but still a dig at the left. If this turns into a 5-page back-and-forth, I'm confident OCF will claim he didn't start it - he was only replying to a anti-GOP post.
No the vote in the California legislature was unanimous, so this is not a Dem v. GOP thing, it's a stupid California thing.
Oh, I don't know. California seems to really have their act together, at least budgetarily: https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/dec... /

California also has the second-highest life expectancy of any state in the nation, behind only Hawaii: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_ter...

Their per-capita income is among the highest in the nation, more than $11,000 above the national average (122% of the national average): http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/per-capita-income... /

The CDC rates it as the third least obese state in the nation (behind Colorado and Hawaii): https://www.consumerprotect.com/hot-topics/worst-eating-a... /

They are the 8th safest state for firearm deaths, though just better than half of all states in all homicides: http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/crime-rate-by-state /

Much more subjectively, but California was determined to have the 5th happiest population: http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/happiest-states /

Sorry if I'm letting facts get in the way of a good narrative.
Yeh, California has the highest poverty rate in the country (19% or so)because of its cost of living index of 168% of the national average.
But Let’s face it, California is blessed with the best climate in the country unless you like harsh winters.
Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 9/12/2019 8:51 PM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
And OCF NEVER starts a GOP v. Dem rhubarb on this site.

As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing.
Subtle, maybe, but still a dig at the left. If this turns into a 5-page back-and-forth, I'm confident OCF will claim he didn't start it - he was only replying to a anti-GOP post.
No the vote in the California legislature was unanimous, so this is not a Dem v. GOP thing, it's a stupid California thing.
Oh, I don't know. California seems to really have their act together, at least budgetarily: https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/dec... /

California also has the second-highest life expectancy of any state in the nation, behind only Hawaii: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_ter...

Their per-capita income is among the highest in the nation, more than $11,000 above the national average (122% of the national average): http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/per-capita-income... /

The CDC rates it as the third least obese state in the nation (behind Colorado and Hawaii): https://www.consumerprotect.com/hot-topics/worst-eating-a... /

They are the 8th safest state for firearm deaths, though just better than half of all states in all homicides: http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/crime-rate-by-state /

Much more subjectively, but California was determined to have the 5th happiest population: http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/happiest-states /

Sorry if I'm letting facts get in the way of a good narrative.
Yeh, California has the highest poverty rate in the country (19% or so)because of its cost of living index of 168% of the national average.
But Let’s face it, California is blessed with the best climate in the country unless you like harsh winters.
Dammit, facts...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_ter...

California is 29th in poverty. Yes, property cost is high, but that's not directly the result of legislature (where the conversation began). It's supply/demand.
JSF
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Posted: 9/12/2019 9:26 PM
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Wouldn't California be the world's 5th-biggest economy if it became its own country?

Death to the NCAA and shamateurism.
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Posted: 9/12/2019 9:27 PM
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Fact, California's fiscal health is only one better than that of West Virginia, 42nd and 43rd, respectively:

https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings
Buck.Cat
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Posted: 9/12/2019 10:35 PM
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Like a lot of blue states, California props up actual welfare states like West Virginia, Mississippi, and Louisiana (shocking, red states) to ensure that they don't become bigger piles of trash.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 9/12/2019 11:25 PM
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Can we try and bring this back around, a bit?

OCF, it's clear your point in your initial post wasn't that the California legislature doesn't know what they're doing because of the state's fiscal status.

So why not address the questions posed about your actual point? I'm really curious how you see a straight line drawn between players gaining endorsement money and courts concluding that makes them employees.

I deal with labor law in California quite a bit, and have at least a decent grasp of employment classifications in California. I'm having a lot of trouble seeing your viewpoint.
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Posted: 9/13/2019 8:14 AM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
It will jeopardize these universities non-profit status. The fact that the payments are going directly to the players and not through the university will not, in the end, make any legal distinction, IMHO.

Hmmmm. Why do you think it would jeopardize non-profit status?
I don't if this will affect non-profit status,but it could create a real legal
headache for schools.

Unless the player is using some generic jersey,he is acting as a "paid representative" of that school.

Maybe if the school requires the athlete to pay a licensing fee to appear in the school's uniform it would work.

Regardless of how this plays out,lawyers are gonna make a killing.
Last Edited: 9/13/2019 8:15:20 AM by rpbobcat
colobobcat66
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Posted: 9/13/2019 10:09 AM
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finnOhio wrote:expand_more
And OCF NEVER starts a GOP v. Dem rhubarb on this site.

As usual the California legislature has no idea what it's doing.
Subtle, maybe, but still a dig at the left. If this turns into a 5-page back-and-forth, I'm confident OCF will claim he didn't start it - he was only replying to a anti-GOP post.
No the vote in the California legislature was unanimous, so this is not a Dem v. GOP thing, it's a stupid California thing.
Oh, I don't know. California seems to really have their act together, at least budgetarily: https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/dec... /

California also has the second-highest life expectancy of any state in the nation, behind only Hawaii: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_ter...

Their per-capita income is among the highest in the nation, more than $11,000 above the national average (122% of the national average): http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/per-capita-income... /

The CDC rates it as the third least obese state in the nation (behind Colorado and Hawaii): https://www.consumerprotect.com/hot-topics/worst-eating-a... /

They are the 8th safest state for firearm deaths, though just better than half of all states in all homicides: http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/crime-rate-by-state /

Much more subjectively, but California was determined to have the 5th happiest population: http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/happiest-states /

Sorry if I'm letting facts get in the way of a good narrative.
Yeh, California has the highest poverty rate in the country (19% or so)because of its cost of living index of 168% of the national average.
But Let’s face it, California is blessed with the best climate in the country unless you like harsh winters.
Dammit, facts...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_ter...

California is 29th in poverty. Yes, property cost is high, but that's not directly the result of legislature (where the conversation began). It's supply/demand.
Check out the SacBee article of Sept 10. US census bureau says Ca is only below DC in poverty level. Yes facts hurt. Add in California having 69% of the US homeless population, all is not perfect in LA LA land. (said as a part year transient resident)
Last Edited: 9/13/2019 10:14:08 AM by colobobcat66
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 9/15/2019 12:38 PM
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Lawmakers in South Carolina announced plans to propose similar legislation yesterday.

Maybe now we can talk about the actual law and impact it will have on NCAA athletics and get past OCF's drive by political commentary.
Last Edited: 9/15/2019 12:38:31 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
rpbobcat
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Posted: 9/15/2019 6:09 PM
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If you want to see just how far back college players feel they should be
paid for their services go,check out 1932's "That's My Boy".

TCM had it on last Friday.

Really interesting movie.
cc-cat
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Posted: 9/15/2019 9:42 PM
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God forbid we allow these kids to make money, but states and NCAA have no issue with football coaches being the. highest paid employee. Politicians and NCAA = Hypocrites
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Posted: 9/15/2019 10:06 PM
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Will Leitch pointed out football coaches get paid more than players are awarded in scholarships now: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/dabo-swinney-and-t...

Makes it extra hilarious Dabo Swinney called it "entitled" to pay players and that would cause him to quit.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 9/16/2019 9:07 AM
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The real irony here is that, for the most part, the opponents of letting players earn money -- regardless of where that money comes from -- oppose the idea for no other reason than they fear that it'll impact their own entertainment. Is there any more clear demonstration of entitlement? Hundreds of people have to work for free because you don't want to have to reconsider how you spend your Saturdays for a fifth of the year? It's really childish.
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Student athletes are working for free? They get nothing in return for their work? Huh.
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