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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: CBS Sports: Why a top-60 recruit committing to Harvard is actually a genius move by the player
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OU_Country
9/18/2019 3:21 PM
"In this era of scouting, if you're good enough, the NBA will find you anywhere."

Man, I wish more kids that transfer just to play in a P6 league would understand that.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/why-a-t... /
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rpbobcat
9/18/2019 3:47 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
"In this era of scouting, if you're good enough, the NBA will find you anywhere."

Man, I wish more kids that transfer just to play in a P6 league would understand that.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/why-a-t... /
I know this is probably a dumb question.

Did you mean P5 ?
Last Edited: 9/18/2019 3:49:01 PM by rpbobcat
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OUVan
9/18/2019 3:48 PM
The P5 football conferences plus the Big East
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rpbobcat
9/18/2019 3:49 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
The P5 football conferences plus the Big East
Thank you !
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OU_Country
9/18/2019 4:04 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
The P5 football conferences plus the Big East
To me, in college hoops, that equals P6.
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JSF
9/18/2019 4:30 PM
Harvard. Genius. Get it?

Yes, you can get noticed by scouts anywhere. But I'd like to see the case made mids do as good a job preparing players for the pros and don't hurt one's draft stock.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/18/2019 4:41 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Harvard. Genius. Get it?

Yes, you can get noticed by scouts anywhere. But I'd like to see the case made mids do as good a job preparing players for the pros and don't hurt one's draft stock.
Yeah, this is my thought, too.

They have worse facilities, fewer folks on staff, and day-to-day you're playing against worse competition, not only in games, but every day in practice.

In the Ivy League that kid may face two players in 4 years who are NBA level perimeter defenders and he'll face exactly zero big men who are quick enough to hedge on a screen and recover the way basically every NBA big man's required to now.
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OU_Country
9/18/2019 5:08 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Harvard. Genius. Get it?

Yes, you can get noticed by scouts anywhere. But I'd like to see the case made mids do as good a job preparing players for the pros and don't hurt one's draft stock.
Yeah, this is my thought, too.

They have worse facilities, fewer folks on staff, and day-to-day you're playing against worse competition, not only in games, but every day in practice.

In the Ivy League that kid may face two players in 4 years who are NBA level perimeter defenders and he'll face exactly zero big men who are quick enough to hedge on a screen and recover the way basically every NBA big man's required to now.
The point is, I think, that if you're actually an NBA caliber player, what league you play in isn't as significant as some think.
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BillyTheCat
9/18/2019 10:19 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Harvard. Genius. Get it?

Yes, you can get noticed by scouts anywhere. But I'd like to see the case made mids do as good a job preparing players for the pros and don't hurt one's draft stock.
Yeah, this is my thought, too.

They have worse facilities, fewer folks on staff, and day-to-day you're playing against worse competition, not only in games, but every day in practice.

In the Ivy League that kid may face two players in 4 years who are NBA level perimeter defenders and he'll face exactly zero big men who are quick enough to hedge on a screen and recover the way basically every NBA big man's required to now.
The point is, I think, that if you're actually an NBA caliber player, what league you play in isn't as significant as some think.
+1
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/19/2019 7:56 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Harvard. Genius. Get it?

Yes, you can get noticed by scouts anywhere. But I'd like to see the case made mids do as good a job preparing players for the pros and don't hurt one's draft stock.
Yeah, this is my thought, too.

They have worse facilities, fewer folks on staff, and day-to-day you're playing against worse competition, not only in games, but every day in practice.

In the Ivy League that kid may face two players in 4 years who are NBA level perimeter defenders and he'll face exactly zero big men who are quick enough to hedge on a screen and recover the way basically every NBA big man's required to now.
The point is, I think, that if you're actually an NBA caliber player, what league you play in isn't as significant as some think.
Yeah, I'm sure the league will find you and you'll get a shot. My point us just that the better the competition you play against, the better prepared you'll be.

And beyond that, situation matters. Draft position has a huge impact on the chance you get to develop, and I suspect JSF is right that players in lesser leagues like get drafted later.
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OU_Country
9/19/2019 9:15 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Yeah, I'm sure the league will find you and you'll get a shot. My point us just that the better the competition you play against, the better prepared you'll be.

And beyond that, situation matters. Draft position has a huge impact on the chance you get to develop, and I suspect JSF is right that players in lesser leagues like get drafted later.
The better competition point is fair. Draft position makes sense because of the investment in the player, even if it doesn't make sense that a team would keep on a lesser player because of that alone.
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OUVan
9/19/2019 9:28 AM
I would think that whatever you lose in NBA draft cache by going to Harvard you more than make up for it in life opportunities. Thought about this when we lost a couple of kids that we were recruiting to Ivy League schools.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/19/2019 9:51 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Yeah, I'm sure the league will find you and you'll get a shot. My point us just that the better the competition you play against, the better prepared you'll be.

And beyond that, situation matters. Draft position has a huge impact on the chance you get to develop, and I suspect JSF is right that players in lesser leagues like get drafted later.
The better competition point is fair. Draft position makes sense because of the investment in the player, even if it doesn't make sense that a team would keep on a lesser player because of that alone.
Yeah, I don't know that they'd necessarily hang onto a lesser player because of that alone, but really my point's just about how contracts in the NBA are structured. First round picks are guaranteed contracts with two guaranteed years and team options for years 3 and 4.

Second round picks don't come with any guaranteed years. There's a ton of churn amongst those players and you have a lot less time to show something.
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OU_Country
9/19/2019 10:48 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Yeah, I'm sure the league will find you and you'll get a shot. My point us just that the better the competition you play against, the better prepared you'll be.

And beyond that, situation matters. Draft position has a huge impact on the chance you get to develop, and I suspect JSF is right that players in lesser leagues like get drafted later.
The better competition point is fair. Draft position makes sense because of the investment in the player, even if it doesn't make sense that a team would keep on a lesser player because of that alone.
Yeah, I don't know that they'd necessarily hang onto a lesser player because of that alone, but really my point's just about how contracts in the NBA are structured. First round picks are guaranteed contracts with two guaranteed years and team options for years 3 and 4.

Second round picks don't come with any guaranteed years. There's a ton of churn amongst those players and you have a lot less time to show something.
Got it - I wasn't thinking of the guaranteed years, and honestly, I didn't know second round picks had no guaranteed money.
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BillyTheCat
9/19/2019 11:04 AM
Lost in all of this discussion is how many top-60 recruits never ever sniff the NBA. The NBA only has 60 picks a year, and probably safe to say more than half of those picks are to top-60 recruits.

In short, get the best education you can for life. The odds of this NBA contract some speak of is such a long shot, it's hardly a "good" plan for anyone outside of the top handful of the thousands every year playing college basketball.
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BillyTheCat
9/19/2019 11:09 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Yeah, I'm sure the league will find you and you'll get a shot. My point us just that the better the competition you play against, the better prepared you'll be.

And beyond that, situation matters. Draft position has a huge impact on the chance you get to develop, and I suspect JSF is right that players in lesser leagues like get drafted later.
The better competition point is fair. Draft position makes sense because of the investment in the player, even if it doesn't make sense that a team would keep on a lesser player because of that alone.
Yeah, I don't know that they'd necessarily hang onto a lesser player because of that alone, but really my point's just about how contracts in the NBA are structured. First round picks are guaranteed contracts with two guaranteed years and team options for years 3 and 4.

Second round picks don't come with any guaranteed years. There's a ton of churn amongst those players and you have a lot less time to show something.
Got it - I wasn't thinking of the guaranteed years, and honestly, I didn't know second round picks had no guaranteed money.
1/3 of all 2nd rounders never play in an NBA game. Of the other 2/3's, few make actual careers.

https://www.slcdunk.com/nba-draft/2016/6/27/12048960/nba-...
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cc-cat
9/19/2019 11:17 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Lost in all of this discussion is how many top-60 recruits never ever sniff the NBA. The NBA only has 60 picks a year, and probably safe to say more than half of those picks are to top-60 recruits.

In short, get the best education you can for life. The odds of this NBA contract some speak of is such a long shot, it's hardly a "good" plan for anyone outside of the top handful of the thousands every year playing college basketball.
With the growing influx of foreign players in the draft I would guess that less than half of those drafted may be "top 60" coming-out of HS.

Here's another question. What percent of American players playing overseas are from mid-majors? I'm guessing a good percentage - feeling being that those that excel at P6 tend to either get drafted or chase the NBA, whereas those from mid majors appreciate the odds and are comfortable looking at better opportunities. Just my guess.

So argument to go mid-major. Excel. Get degree. Make cash overseas. Retire. Enjoy life.
Last Edited: 9/19/2019 11:19:06 AM by cc-cat
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BillyTheCat
9/19/2019 11:54 AM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Lost in all of this discussion is how many top-60 recruits never ever sniff the NBA. The NBA only has 60 picks a year, and probably safe to say more than half of those picks are to top-60 recruits.

In short, get the best education you can for life. The odds of this NBA contract some speak of is such a long shot, it's hardly a "good" plan for anyone outside of the top handful of the thousands every year playing college basketball.
With the growing influx of foreign players in the draft I would guess that less than half of those drafted may be "top 60" coming-out of HS.

Here's another question. What percent of American players playing overseas are from mid-majors? I'm guessing a good percentage - feeling being that those that excel at P6 tend to either get drafted or chase the NBA, whereas those from mid majors appreciate the odds and are comfortable looking at better opportunities. Just my guess.

So argument to go mid-major. Excel. Get degree. Make cash overseas. Retire. Enjoy life.
My question is: What do you call a good percentage? And how long. Keep in mind the money is not outstanding in most overseas leagues and many do not play that long. There is life to consider after the fact.

To answer part of your question, 4,138 Americans playing overseas as of Sept. 1st. So, in short there are just slightly fewer Americans playing overseas than their are DI Scholarship players in a given year.
Last Edited: 9/19/2019 11:58:19 AM by BillyTheCat
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/20/2019 7:59 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Lost in all of this discussion is how many top-60 recruits never ever sniff the NBA. The NBA only has 60 picks a year, and probably safe to say more than half of those picks are to top-60 recruits.

In short, get the best education you can for life. The odds of this NBA contract some speak of is such a long shot, it's hardly a "good" plan for anyone outside of the top handful of the thousands every year playing college basketball.
With the growing influx of foreign players in the draft I would guess that less than half of those drafted may be "top 60" coming-out of HS.

Here's another question. What percent of American players playing overseas are from mid-majors? I'm guessing a good percentage - feeling being that those that excel at P6 tend to either get drafted or chase the NBA, whereas those from mid majors appreciate the odds and are comfortable looking at better opportunities. Just my guess.

So argument to go mid-major. Excel. Get degree. Make cash overseas. Retire. Enjoy life.
My question is: What do you call a good percentage? And how long. Keep in mind the money is not outstanding in most overseas leagues and many do not play that long. There is life to consider after the fact.

To answer part of your question, 4,138 Americans playing overseas as of Sept. 1st. So, in short there are just slightly fewer Americans playing overseas than their are DI Scholarship players in a given year.
Agreed. I think there's a tendency to think of Europe as one big league -- but in practice, there's a huge discrepancy between the top tier teams and second tier teams, even within the same league.

It's easy to assume that tons of guys from mid-majors are over in Europe cleaning up, but in actuality I think Sean Stonerook was the last Ohio guy who actually played in the top tier of European basketball. Most American guys who excel at that level had at least somewhat meaningful NBA careers. Guys like Anthony Randolph at Real Madrid who played 6 seasons in the league. It's super rare to just go directly from Mid-Major basketball to a top European team.

Much more often, you need to prove yourself for a few years in lesser leagues.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/20/2019 10:18 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Lost in all of this discussion is how many top-60 recruits never ever sniff the NBA. The NBA only has 60 picks a year, and probably safe to say more than half of those picks are to top-60 recruits.

In short, get the best education you can for life. The odds of this NBA contract some speak of is such a long shot, it's hardly a "good" plan for anyone outside of the top handful of the thousands every year playing college basketball.
With the growing influx of foreign players in the draft I would guess that less than half of those drafted may be "top 60" coming-out of HS.

Here's another question. What percent of American players playing overseas are from mid-majors? I'm guessing a good percentage - feeling being that those that excel at P6 tend to either get drafted or chase the NBA, whereas those from mid majors appreciate the odds and are comfortable looking at better opportunities. Just my guess.

So argument to go mid-major. Excel. Get degree. Make cash overseas. Retire. Enjoy life.
My question is: What do you call a good percentage? And how long. Keep in mind the money is not outstanding in most overseas leagues and many do not play that long. There is life to consider after the fact.

To answer part of your question, 4,138 Americans playing overseas as of Sept. 1st. So, in short there are just slightly fewer Americans playing overseas than their are DI Scholarship players in a given year.
Agreed. I think there's a tendency to think of Europe as one big league -- but in practice, there's a huge discrepancy between the top tier teams and second tier teams, even within the same league.

It's easy to assume that tons of guys from mid-majors are over in Europe cleaning up, but in actuality I think Sean Stonerook was the last Ohio guy who actually played in the top tier of European basketball. Most American guys who excel at that level had at least somewhat meaningful NBA careers. Guys like Anthony Randolph at Real Madrid who played 6 seasons in the league. It's super rare to just go directly from Mid-Major basketball to a top European team.

Much more often, you need to prove yourself for a few years in lesser leagues.
Just realized I forgot about Maurice N'Dour who played for Real Madrid. Though, he didn't actually see many minutes.
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JSF
9/20/2019 4:26 PM
Brandon Hunter too.
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Buck.Cat
9/21/2019 1:26 PM
Harvard is going to have a very interesting team this year. Lost in all of it is that they get back their best player Seth Towns who missed last season with a knee injury.
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allen
9/24/2019 1:28 PM
Great decision by the player, he will get a great degree. He will play right away, probably end up in their Hall of Fame. If he improves over time, he should put his self in a position to be drafted.
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