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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Don't look now ....
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cc-cat
1/16/2020 9:41 PM
don’t look now ... but saul’s team is 12-4 and tied for the conference lead. Continue to wish him well.
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The Better Ohio Bobcat
1/16/2020 9:59 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
don’t look now ... but saul’s team is 12-4 and tied for the conference lead. Continue to wish him well.
I don’t see why anyone wouldn’t root for Saul or Groce. Groce took us to the sweet sixteen and improved the program. Saul struggled here but he was a nice guy so why not root for him in the future. I like to see them win every game unless they play us. They will always be Bobcats.
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JSF
1/16/2020 11:19 PM
"Head coach at Akron" is a good reason to root against him.
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OU_Country
1/17/2020 9:03 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
"Head coach at Akron" is a good reason to root against him.
Agreed. If he were Head Coach at say, Duquesne, Indiana State, or Northern Kentucky, I'd probably be rooting for them and following them regularly.
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OhioCatFan
1/17/2020 10:33 AM
ytownbobcat wrote:expand_more
He has PJ Fleck sideline presence.
I'd describe more as a Bo Pelini presence.
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The Better Ohio Bobcat
1/17/2020 12:10 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
"Head coach at Akron" is a good reason to root against him.
What’s the difference between Akron or another MAC team winning for us?
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cc-cat
1/17/2020 12:17 PM
The Ohio University wrote:expand_more
"Head coach at Akron" is a good reason to root against him.
What’s the difference between Akron or another MAC team winning for us?
None - as long as he is in the MAC he is the enemy. And I don't buy in at all the "well if it can't be us winning the MAC I hope it's Groce and Akron." For any number of reasons, Akron (to me) is a close second to Miami in who I hate in the MAC.
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MedinaCat
1/17/2020 12:23 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Agreed. If he were Head Coach at say, Duquesne, Indiana State, or Northern Kentucky, I'd probably be rooting for them and following them regularly.
For what it's worth, Groce's predecessor at Akron is 15-2 at Duquesne this season.
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The Optimist
1/17/2020 12:41 PM
Akron is only -2 in the MAC golf standings and their birdies came in Dekalb and Ypsilanti.

Lol
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roar-room
1/17/2020 1:11 PM
BobcatWarrior wrote:expand_more
I believe many mid-major coaches jump too early at the "big job". They have a bit of success and/or make a run and then they leave. Why not build on that success/run and use it to bring in a "higher-level" recruit at your current school. Then, with sustained success, you can then decide whether you can build a mid-major "power" at that school or leave for, potentially, a better job than the one you would have turned down after the initial success/run.
If I recall, JG's Illinois contract was a 5-year contract for like $1.5m per year. That compares to I think ~$300k at OU (though I think we offered him a raise to try to retain him? maybe $450k or something?). Either way, it seems difficult to argue he made the wrong call for him and his family -- at least on the financial dimension (which tends to be heavily weighted in professional matters). He would've been a fool not to accept that contract.

But the rest of your sentiment I agree with. Feels like we were on the path to build something when he left. That does make me sad.
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GoCats105
1/17/2020 1:20 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Akron is only -2 in the MAC golf standings and their birdies came in Dekalb and Ypsilanti.

Lol
Given Groce's MAC history, I'd call that #growth.
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GoCats105
1/17/2020 1:25 PM
roar-room wrote:expand_more
I believe many mid-major coaches jump too early at the "big job". They have a bit of success and/or make a run and then they leave. Why not build on that success/run and use it to bring in a "higher-level" recruit at your current school. Then, with sustained success, you can then decide whether you can build a mid-major "power" at that school or leave for, potentially, a better job than the one you would have turned down after the initial success/run.
If I recall, JG's Illinois contract was a 5-year contract for like $1.5m per year. That compares to I think ~$300k at OU (though I think we offered him a raise to try to retain him? maybe $450k or something?). Either way, it seems difficult to argue he made the wrong call for him and his family -- at least on the financial dimension (which tends to be heavily weighted in professional matters). He would've been a fool not to accept that contract.

But the rest of your sentiment I agree with. Feels like we were on the path to build something when he left. That does make me sad.
I thought I heard one time that the number Ohio was willing to get to was $750K, but maybe that's me dreaming.
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OhioCatFan
1/17/2020 2:58 PM
roar-room wrote:expand_more
. . . He would've been a fool not to accept that [Illinois] contract.
Depends on your definition of "fool."
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roar-room
1/17/2020 3:37 PM
Money can't buy happiness, I get it (and I agree).

But it does provide security for your family.

Probably not productive to rehash this discussion (again). Reasonable minds can disagree.
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bobcatsquared
1/17/2020 3:47 PM
Probably in the minority, but I root for Akron/Groce in every non-conference game, just like I do for all MAC teams. Additionally, as we start moving into the latter part of the season, I might start rooting for them inside the conference, like I have the past couple of years for UB, if it means improving their national reputation as the MAC's top dog. Of course, not when it comes to showdowns with the Bobcats.
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Alan Swank
1/17/2020 4:02 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Probably in the minority, but I root for Akron/Groce in every non-conference game, just like I do for all MAC teams. Additionally, as we start moving into the latter part of the season, I might start rooting for them inside the conference, like I have the past couple of years for UB, if it means improving their national reputation as the MAC's top dog. Of course, not when it comes to showdowns with the Bobcats.
Exactly. This is why the SEC is such a big deal. The vast majority of fans have the same rooting interest that squared so clearly stated.
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OU_Country
1/17/2020 4:03 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
"Head coach at Akron" is a good reason to root against him.
What’s the difference between Akron or another MAC team winning for us?
None - as long as he is in the MAC he is the enemy. And I don't buy in at all the "well if it can't be us winning the MAC I hope it's Groce and Akron." For any number of reasons, Akron (to me) is a close second to Miami in who I hate in the MAC.
+1 -- In a way. For me, the most "hated" rivals of Ohio Basketball are as follows:

1) Arkon
2) Kent/Miami
3) Marshall
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OU_Country
1/17/2020 4:10 PM
roar-room wrote:expand_more
Money can't buy happiness, I get it (and I agree).

But it does provide security for your family.
Money, to me, buys choices and options. For example, if you're Groce, because you took the job at Illinois, if you played your cards right with how you spent and saved, you can quit coaching, if you choose to, at 50 years old and live pretty well the rest of your life.
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BillyTheCat
1/17/2020 11:50 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
"Head coach at Akron" is a good reason to root against him.
What’s the difference between Akron or another MAC team winning for us?
None - as long as he is in the MAC he is the enemy. And I don't buy in at all the "well if it can't be us winning the MAC I hope it's Groce and Akron." For any number of reasons, Akron (to me) is a close second to Miami in who I hate in the MAC.
“Enemy” you really want to equate a game as life or death with win or lose?
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bshot44
1/18/2020 9:42 AM
I'll just add this ...

Larry Hunter .586 MAC win %
1 NCAA tourney ... 1 MAC title

Frank Solich .625 MAC win %
11 bowl appearances ... 0 MAC titles

Both are well revered on this board and in SE Ohio

Their success at Ohio is no greater than John Groce and his four years.

.531 MAC win % ... 2 NCAA tourneys ... 3 wins

I understand why Groce left ... and I agree turning down $5M is tough.

I think he would have continued to build on what he was doing at Ohio. It's the great "what-if"

But it seems people latch on to Hunter and Solich ... and then belittle Groce's achievements because he only won 53% of his MAC games. Did he not win when it counted in big ways in two of his four years? Can you say that about Hunter or Solich? How many disappointing seasons have those two turned in ... yet, we celebrate them?

Just find it ironic.
Last Edited: 1/18/2020 9:43:33 AM by bshot44
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BillyTheCat
1/18/2020 10:00 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I'll just add this ...

Larry Hunter .586 MAC win %
1 NCAA tourney ... 1 MAC title

Frank Solich .625 MAC win %
11 bowl appearances ... 0 MAC titles

Both are well revered on this board and in SE Ohio

Their success at Ohio is no greater than John Groce and his four years.

.531 MAC win % ... 2 NCAA tourneys ... 3 wins

I understand why Groce left ... and I agree turning down $5M is tough.

I think he would have continued to build on what he was doing at Ohio. It's the great "what-if"

But it seems people latch on to Hunter and Solich ... and then belittle Groce's achievements because he only won 53% of his MAC games. Did he not win when it counted in big ways in two of his four years? Can you say that about Hunter or Solich? How many disappointing seasons have those two turned in ... yet, we celebrate them?

Just find it ironic.
Personally I often wonder where we would be if Tim O’Shea wouldn’t have left to build the Bryant program. Could we have been the Midwest version of Gonzaga?
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OhioCatFan
1/18/2020 10:12 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I'll just add this ...

Larry Hunter .586 MAC win %
1 NCAA tourney ... 1 MAC title

Frank Solich .625 MAC win %
11 bowl appearances ... 0 MAC titles

Both are well revered on this board and in SE Ohio

Their success at Ohio is no greater than John Groce and his four years.

.531 MAC win % ... 2 NCAA tourneys ... 3 wins

I understand why Groce left ... and I agree turning down $5M is tough.

I think he would have continued to build on what he was doing at Ohio. It's the great "what-if"

But it seems people latch on to Hunter and Solich ... and then belittle Groce's achievements because he only won 53% of his MAC games. Did he not win when it counted in big ways in two of his four years? Can you say that about Hunter or Solich? How many disappointing seasons have those two turned in ... yet, we celebrate them?

Just find it ironic.


Personally I often wonder where we would be if Tim O’Shea wouldn’t have left to build the Bryant program. Could we have been the Midwest version of Gonzaga?
Or, perhaps, the Midwest version of Cal Poly, SLO! (Sorry berniebobcat, I couldn't resist.)
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cc-cat
1/18/2020 12:12 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Money can't buy happiness, I get it (and I agree).

But it does provide security for your family.
Money, to me, buys choices and options. For example, if you're Groce, because you took the job at Illinois, if you played your cards right with how you spent and saved, you can quit coaching, if you choose to, at 50 years old and live pretty well the rest of your life.
Fully agree - Groce would have been a fool to not take the Illinois job (and the money). Could he have stayed here and been a success? Sure, but one of the characteristics that he and most good coaches embrace is confidence in their ability. That confidence is a reason he left for Illinois. Yes, he had success here, But he did not doubt his ability and therefore the opportunity for success in Champaign. Believer in yourself - completely - the absences of doubt compels coaches as they move up in jobs,

As Jesse Itzler said: Self Doubt Is The Single Greatest Enemy To Success.
Last Edited: 1/18/2020 12:15:34 PM by cc-cat
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Victory
1/18/2020 6:48 PM
99-89 loss at home to Toledo so that #39 .NET ranking is going to take a tumble.
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allen
1/18/2020 11:12 PM
Victory wrote:expand_more
99-89 loss at home to Toledo so that #39 .NET ranking is going to take a tumble.
At large out the window as well
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