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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Convo proximity - how long does it take you to get there?
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TWT
12/17/2019 8:44 PM
Looking at the attendance at the Convo over the years the very lowest season averages were posted right before Danny Nee arrived. Then he had success and college basketball was expanding nationally as a sport so attendance rocketed back. Down and a program of yesteryear the bobcats resurfaced. At the moment the national trend is for lower student turnouts but it can rebound again. One thing that would help is a strategic vision for the athletic department with facility upgrades because that is what gets donors excited. Boeh for all the things he did wrong at least he attempted to create the picture this was an athletic department on the move.
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cbus cat fan
12/18/2019 2:58 PM
In two hours I can be in the Convo. As for last night, I was actually impressed that there were as many non-students in attendance last night.

Below is an excerpt I took from my post on the Ohio-Purdue thread. I think this speaks to the student mindset on attendance etc.

On a side note, I had a very informative discussion with some students uptown at a watering hole (while we grabbed a beer and some food) before the game. They (it was a bout 50-50 male-female) were all seniors or fifth year seniors about to graduate. A couple of them were local Athens County kids, and the others were just hanging out until later in the week. It seems about half of them were aware that the Bobcats were playing Purdue, but none of them were going to the game. About half of them go to a few games a year, while a couple of them said they had maybe been to one or two football or basketball games in their entire stay in Athens. Yet, they all proclaimed to be at least casual sports fans, some of them had traveled to bowl games and or basketball road trips, but they saw this as an extension of their social activities. They just didn't think of the Bobcats the way they think of big time power conference sports. They seemed intrigued that there were so many alums coming in for the game and wondered what it must have been like back in the day. It was a very open and enjoyable conversation, but more than a little depressing all at the same time.
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OU_Country
12/18/2019 4:38 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
In two hours I can be in the Convo. As for last night, I was actually impressed that there were as many non-students in attendance last night.

Below is an excerpt I took from my post on the Ohio-Purdue thread. I think this speaks to the student mindset on attendance etc.

On a side note, I had a very informative discussion with some students uptown at a watering hole (while we grabbed a beer and some food) before the game. They (it was a bout 50-50 male-female) were all seniors or fifth year seniors about to graduate. A couple of them were local Athens County kids, and the others were just hanging out until later in the week. It seems about half of them were aware that the Bobcats were playing Purdue, but none of them were going to the game. About half of them go to a few games a year, while a couple of them said they had maybe been to one or two football or basketball games in their entire stay in Athens. Yet, they all proclaimed to be at least casual sports fans, some of them had traveled to bowl games and or basketball road trips, but they saw this as an extension of their social activities. They just didn't think of the Bobcats the way they think of big time power conference sports. They seemed intrigued that there were so many alums coming in for the game and wondered what it must have been like back in the day. It was a very open and enjoyable conversation, but more than a little depressing all at the same time.
The light that this sheds on students attending games, to me, is that it needs to be made into more of a social event that is fun to be at - more than it ever has. Which, honestly, this isn't terribly different than what adults expect of many sporting events today.
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Alan Swank
12/18/2019 5:03 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
In two hours I can be in the Convo. As for last night, I was actually impressed that there were as many non-students in attendance last night.

Below is an excerpt I took from my post on the Ohio-Purdue thread. I think this speaks to the student mindset on attendance etc.

On a side note, I had a very informative discussion with some students uptown at a watering hole (while we grabbed a beer and some food) before the game. They (it was a bout 50-50 male-female) were all seniors or fifth year seniors about to graduate. A couple of them were local Athens County kids, and the others were just hanging out until later in the week. It seems about half of them were aware that the Bobcats were playing Purdue, but none of them were going to the game. About half of them go to a few games a year, while a couple of them said they had maybe been to one or two football or basketball games in their entire stay in Athens. Yet, they all proclaimed to be at least casual sports fans, some of them had traveled to bowl games and or basketball road trips, but they saw this as an extension of their social activities. They just didn't think of the Bobcats the way they think of big time power conference sports. They seemed intrigued that there were so many alums coming in for the game and wondered what it must have been like back in the day. It was a very open and enjoyable conversation, but more than a little depressing all at the same time.
The light that this sheds on students attending games, to me, is that it needs to be made into more of a social event that is fun to be at - more than it ever has. Which, honestly, this isn't terribly different than what adults expect of many sporting events today.
Which may have been the impetus for the Hardwood House which was packed at halftime yesterday. Couldn't get on the shuffle board table. Additionally even at 9:00 on a Tuesday a week before Christmas Eve, folks will come out to see a quality known opponent.
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Andrew Ruck
12/19/2019 9:17 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
In two hours I can be in the Convo. As for last night, I was actually impressed that there were as many non-students in attendance last night.

Below is an excerpt I took from my post on the Ohio-Purdue thread. I think this speaks to the student mindset on attendance etc.

On a side note, I had a very informative discussion with some students uptown at a watering hole (while we grabbed a beer and some food) before the game. They (it was a bout 50-50 male-female) were all seniors or fifth year seniors about to graduate. A couple of them were local Athens County kids, and the others were just hanging out until later in the week. It seems about half of them were aware that the Bobcats were playing Purdue, but none of them were going to the game. About half of them go to a few games a year, while a couple of them said they had maybe been to one or two football or basketball games in their entire stay in Athens. Yet, they all proclaimed to be at least casual sports fans, some of them had traveled to bowl games and or basketball road trips, but they saw this as an extension of their social activities. They just didn't think of the Bobcats the way they think of big time power conference sports. They seemed intrigued that there were so many alums coming in for the game and wondered what it must have been like back in the day. It was a very open and enjoyable conversation, but more than a little depressing all at the same time.
The light that this sheds on students attending games, to me, is that it needs to be made into more of a social event that is fun to be at - more than it ever has. Which, honestly, this isn't terribly different than what adults expect of many sporting events today.
I don't have that same take. I take it to mean there really is nothing we can do to attract these kids to the games other than become a consistent top 25 program. People used to be able to just enjoy a single game for a night, or the chase for a conference championship. The growing mentality now seems to be the only thing that matters is national championships and only elite level competition.
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OU_Country
12/19/2019 10:06 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
I don't have that same take. I take it to mean there really is nothing we can do to attract these kids to the games other than become a consistent top 25 program. People used to be able to just enjoy a single game for a night, or the chase for a conference championship. The growing mentality now seems to be the only thing that matters is national championships and only elite level competition.
Definitely a fair take. The ESPNism of sports - only championships matter, and you're only relevant in hoops if you're in the NCAA Tournament. There are a few with that mindset here at times.
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GraffZ06
12/19/2019 5:03 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
The growing mentality now seems to be the only thing that matters is national championships and only elite level competition.
Definitely a fair take. The ESPNism of sports - only championships matter, and you're only relevant in hoops if you're in the NCAA Tournament. There are a few with that mindset here at times.
DING DING DING DING. We have a winner!

You and I can wish it to be different all we want, but this is the reality.

It's why I've said on this board ad nauseum, that for a mid-major like OU who isn't playing on ESPN/ABC/CBS against Top 25 teams every night, literally the ONLY thing that matters is March.

Win in Cleveland (on national TV) and get to the NCAA Tournament (on national TV) and you're golden. Don't - and regardless of your record/coach/team comraderie/recruiting/halftime entertainment/cheerleaders/bands etc. and you've "failed" and 90+% of people will *yawn* and say "OU who? Do we still have a team? With uniforms and everything? Huh - who knew?!"

I absolutely love Jeff Boals, but I will hold him to the exact same standard I held Saul Phillips. March.
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JSF
12/19/2019 10:05 PM
Even on this board, we'll hear "all that matters is March" 50 times during the season. And then people will wonder why students don't show up on a Tuesday night for Central Michigan.
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shabamon
12/19/2019 10:10 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I don't have that same take. I take it to mean there really is nothing we can do to attract these kids to the games other than become a consistent top 25 program. People used to be able to just enjoy a single game for a night, or the chase for a conference championship. The growing mentality now seems to be the only thing that matters is national championships and only elite level competition.
Definitely a fair take. The ESPNism of sports - only championships matter, and you're only relevant in hoops if you're in the NCAA Tournament. There are a few with that mindset here at times.
Not only that, but so many games across the country have a video broadcast of some sort. It has become surprising anymore where that is not the case. As a result, our students probably can't help but contextualize the game they can walk to against the bigger picture. It is becoming less about being better than Bowling Green or whomever for a couple hours, but what does the game signify on a national level.
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OU_Country
12/20/2019 9:54 AM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
The growing mentality now seems to be the only thing that matters is national championships and only elite level competition.
Definitely a fair take. The ESPNism of sports - only championships matter, and you're only relevant in hoops if you're in the NCAA Tournament. There are a few with that mindset here at times.
DING DING DING DING. We have a winner!

You and I can wish it to be different all we want, but this is the reality.

It's why I've said on this board ad nauseum, that for a mid-major like OU who isn't playing on ESPN/ABC/CBS against Top 25 teams every night, literally the ONLY thing that matters is March.

Win in Cleveland (on national TV) and get to the NCAA Tournament (on national TV) and you're golden. Don't - and regardless of your record/coach/team comraderie/recruiting/halftime entertainment/cheerleaders/bands etc. and you've "failed" and 90+% of people will *yawn* and say "OU who? Do we still have a team? With uniforms and everything? Huh - who knew?!"

I absolutely love Jeff Boals, but I will hold him to the exact same standard I held Saul Phillips. March.
Whole heartedly disagree. March is NOT all that matters. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Does it matter more than December/January/February? Sort of. But on the other hand, if a team - any team - plays like crap in those months, most of the time March actually doesn't matter.
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OU_Country
12/20/2019 9:55 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Even on this board, we'll hear "all that matters is March" 50 times during the season. And then people will wonder why students don't show up on a Tuesday night for Central Michigan.
Winner, winner.
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Andrew Ruck
12/26/2019 3:00 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Even on this board, we'll hear "all that matters is March" 50 times during the season. And then people will wonder why students don't show up on a Tuesday night for Central Michigan.
I can't stand when people say that.
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JSF
12/27/2019 2:11 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Even on this board, we'll hear "all that matters is March" 50 times during the season. And then people will wonder why students don't show up on a Tuesday night for Central Michigan.
I can't stand when people say that.
Right? I mean, I get that some people only pay attention to the postseason. That's fine. But there's a whole season out there! It's OK to care about it!
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GraffZ06
12/27/2019 2:48 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Even on this board, we'll hear "all that matters is March" 50 times during the season. And then people will wonder why students don't show up on a Tuesday night for Central Michigan.
I can't stand when people say that.
Right? I mean, I get that some people only pay attention to the postseason. That's fine. But there's a whole season out there! It's OK to care about it!
Sure it's okay. You care about it. I care about it. But 99% of the rest of the country absolutely doesn't. Johnny casual fan does NOT. Joe cool college kid does NOT.

You want to increase attendance? You want more people fired up about the program and following it for life/turning into donors? You have to get A LOT more Johnny casual fan and Joe cool college kids into the Convo. You and I are going regardless.

Guess when Johnny casual fan and Joe college kid watch NCAA basketball and will take notice of OU hoops? March. Period. It's literally all that matters because it's all that matters to them. Do a "man on the street" and see how many people can even name regular season MAC champs vs. how many can name the NCAA tourney upsets MAC teams pulled off.

Now if you're Duke and on ESPN every game and ranked top 5 every year - sure, every game matters even in November. ACC regular season championships also matter because you're beating perennial national powerhouses (not directional schools). ACC championships are a direct indicator of probable future NCAA tourney success. Yes, if we were a P5 the regular season matters. We're not, so it doesn't.

All that matters is March.
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Andrew Ruck
12/30/2019 12:47 PM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
Guess when Johnny casual fan and Joe college kid watch NCAA basketball and will take notice of OU hoops? March. Period. It's literally all that matters because it's all that matters to them.
So we do well in March, which commands the attention of the casual fan, who only cares in March, so he then can forget about is again in November, because again...he only cares about March.

We're falling into some serious circular discussion here. JSF & I brought up this type of mentality as why attendance is hurting. We not only did not deny their existence, we brought them up as reason attendance lags these days. This is the new mentality, yes, and very prevalent.

And it's really dumb. If someone follows a team just to experience the gratification of the absolute highest peak of success...they are morons. Watching a team be built, struggle, make strides & figure it out is the best. Getting to know all the parts pieces at play on a team and the ebb and flow of that group. And sometimes it is just fun to watch a game and hope your team wins that game, even if it doesn't change your seeding or ranking or whatever.

For whatever reason, people used to view sports more like this and now they view it more like Johnny Casual fan, as you put it.
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BillyTheCat
12/30/2019 1:17 PM
My take, and only my personal take on this. March is fun, success in March is a blast. However for 99.5% of mid majors that March success last 10 days. Conference tournament weekend and 1st round NCAA. So why put all that work into thinking that’s all that matters? Enjoy the ride. As someone who has coached one or two teams in several sports the worse thing about basketball is you are ultimately judged by the fans and many times yourself on a 1 and done tournament. enjoy The ride, the highs and the lows, that’s just life. If any of us truly wanted to only ride highs, we’d all be Duke and UK basketball fans and root for Alabama or OSU football, then blame others when they lose.
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GoCats105
12/30/2019 3:22 PM
I mean really who do we have to thank for that? The media and the NCAA hammer home the Cinderella story every chance they get and that makes it seem like only March matters. And because those stories are so much fun to grab hold of (seriously would anyone even know Valpo without Bryce Drew?), most of the general public latches onto that stereotype that everything great happens in March when in reality it started in summer/fall camp.

Not to mention the countless brackets that are filled out in office pools every spring, and the Tournament not being expanded. I still don't know if expanding the Tournament makes the regular season more relevant, because I have the feeling we'd still just see more also-rans from the power conferences instead of 25+ win mid majors who got bounced in their conference tournament. We buy into this stigma that only March matters because that's what we're fed over and over and over again.
Last Edited: 12/30/2019 3:24:05 PM by GoCats105
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OU_Country
1/2/2020 3:12 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Guess when Johnny casual fan and Joe college kid watch NCAA basketball and will take notice of OU hoops? March. Period. It's literally all that matters because it's all that matters to them.
So we do well in March, which commands the attention of the casual fan, who only cares in March, so he then can forget about is again in November, because again...he only cares about March.

We're falling into some serious circular discussion here. JSF & I brought up this type of mentality as why attendance is hurting. We not only did not deny their existence, we brought them up as reason attendance lags these days. This is the new mentality, yes, and very prevalent.

And it's really dumb. If someone follows a team just to experience the gratification of the absolute highest peak of success...they are morons. Watching a team be built, struggle, make strides & figure it out is the best. Getting to know all the parts pieces at play on a team and the ebb and flow of that group. And sometimes it is just fun to watch a game and hope your team wins that game, even if it doesn't change your seeding or ranking or whatever.

For whatever reason, people used to view sports more like this and now they view it more like Johnny Casual fan, as you put it.
Totally agree -- following a team through the highs and lows is indeed fun. This year, I enjoyed watching the Reds build toward what was ultimately a disappointing season. If someone only watches when they win, they miss out on the ride, which, in my opinion, is the best part. And the ride, as BTC said, is the same as day to day life - highs, lows, and in between.


Lastly, I'll never concede that "All that matters is March". It's simply a false statement until they only schedule games in the month of March. The build up to March is just as fun, if not more so. If all you remember from 2010 is Georgetown, you're forgetting about the run that team made from starting out 0-4 in MAC play to simply GET to Cleveland.
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OU_Country
1/2/2020 3:16 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I believe it might be related to the firing of Larry Hunter, an Athens favorite! At the time, I heard a number of people say they'd never go to another Ohio BB game.
I was going to post sarcastically that half or more of these folks were kin to Larry, who has extended family -- cousins, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. -- all over the county. His family was one of the pioneer families in Athens County, and I believe that Ohio University's first graduate, John Hunter, was an ancestor. Tom Ewing was actually the second graduate, contrary to many university news release to the contrary. It was a two person graduating class, and Hunter had the better grades so he technically graduated first, as was the custom in those days.

Seriously, though, your point is well taken. I think the new AD would be wise to institute a marketing campaign to entice these folks back. As Alan points out, it's difficult, but it might be worth the effort. Somewhere the AD's office must have a list of the folks who quit buying season's tickets at about that time. Or such a list could be generated via a little research. A directed mailing to them, with some kind of a special one-time offer for former season ticket holders, might entice some of them back. It might be pointed out that our new coach is the first alumnus in the position since Larry Hunter, that might appeal to them. Just a random thought or two meant to be constructive.

^^^ Good thoughts ^^^
Last Edited: 1/2/2020 3:17:05 PM by OU_Country
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LuckySparrow
1/4/2020 11:44 AM
On a late Saturday morning

6 hours and 41 minutes away from the CONVO.

Too far.
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OU_Country
1/4/2020 2:28 PM
LuckySparrow wrote:expand_more
On a late Saturday morning

6 hours and 41 minutes away from the CONVO.

Too far.
It's doable. I'll get your ticket. 😉
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