Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Preston vs. Cooper vs. Simmons
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OUVan
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Posted: 12/4/2020 7:41 AM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Another advantage to JP... I was almost always comfortable if the ball was in DJ's hands, but JP NEVER turns the ball over. It's almost uncanny. How great a stat was that to go along with his 31 points and 8 assists last week?
I think when all is said and done he and DJ are pretty much the same on turnovers. Last year Jason averaged 3.7 TO/G while DJ's highest was 3.5. Overall Jason is lower on a per game basis but I think that has more to do with Taevion Kirk being the main ballhandler for much of Jason's freshman season and Kirk would turn it over before anyone else on the team had a chance to.

I think they both have very similar strengths although they play different games. But both have stupid good court vision and great on-court demeanor. The majority of the turnovers for both are done trying to create offense for the team as opposed to a couple of recent PGs whose turnovers were accumulated by playing out of control and trying to create their own shots against terrible numbers. Will be interesting to see how Jason's numbers shake out as the talent around him improves.
FearLeon
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Posted: 12/4/2020 8:43 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Another advantage to JP... I was almost always comfortable if the ball was in DJ's hands, but JP NEVER turns the ball over. It's almost uncanny. How great a stat was that to go along with his 31 points and 8 assists last week?
I think when all is said and done he and DJ are pretty much the same on turnovers. Last year Jason averaged 3.7 TO/G while DJ's highest was 3.5. Overall Jason is lower on a per game basis but I think that has more to do with Taevion Kirk being the main ballhandler for much of Jason's freshman season and Kirk would turn it over before anyone else on the team had a chance to.

I think they both have very similar strengths although they play different games. But both have stupid good court vision and great on-court demeanor. The majority of the turnovers for both are done trying to create offense for the team as opposed to a couple of recent PGs whose turnovers were accumulated by playing out of control and trying to create their own shots against terrible numbers. Will be interesting to see how Jason's numbers shake out as the talent around him improves.
I think the biggest difference between Cooper and Preston is that Preston can create shots more easily in the paint and score inside with more consistency.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 12/4/2020 8:54 AM
Paul Baron. Best point guard in 40 years in terms of getting the ball to all of the other four players especially the big men in position. Of course it helped that we had two great big men in Devereaux and Alexander.
Last Edited: 12/4/2020 8:59:02 AM by Alan Swank
Donuts
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Posted: 12/4/2020 8:55 AM
It's way too close from a skill perspective, so I'm always taking height, athleticism, and versatility as the tiebreaker. This guy is getting picked first almost every time.

https://twitter.com/Treballjay11/status/13146679578769203...
Last Edited: 12/4/2020 8:59:27 AM by Donuts
100%Cat
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Posted: 12/4/2020 8:57 AM
Corey Reed played PG for Ohio in 117 career games and made 0 three pointers. How is that even possible?

Back to the question at hand, I think it's just too early to tell. Jay Preston still has (hopefully) a lot of basketball left to play in green and white. Let's see if he can guide this team to the dance, or at least I am before I judge him against guys whose careers are already over. Jay's trajectory is great right now, but he's barely halfway (again hopefully) done here. It will be hard to ever pick anybody over DJ because he did so much on the floor. Steals, rebounding, assists, scoring, and he did it on big stages in big moments. Except for that one night in Cleveland, but let's face it, that was an outlier for him.

I feel like Jaaron's time here gets a bad rap for the way it ended. He was here for only two years, but let's not kid ourselves, he was really good in those two years. He didn't have the all-around game that DJ had, but I think he was better athletically and was a great distributor. I think he could have been special his senior season here, but he made the decision he made and rode the pine at Michigan.

Talk to me in 2 years about where Preston deserves to be in regards to Simmons and Cooper.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/4/2020 10:02 AM
Donuts wrote:expand_more
It's way too close from a skill perspective, so I'm always taking height, athleticism, and versatility as the tiebreaker. This guy is getting picked first almost every time.

https://twitter.com/Treballjay11/status/13146679578769203...
I agree with this, at least in terms of current trajectory.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 12/4/2020 2:23 PM
I am glad somebody shared the shooting stats. Seeing Cooper selected because of his shooting was a head scratcher to me. On the flipside, defense is a good point...DJ was a better defender than Jason is.

It is a little unfair because we are comparing 2 years of Preston against 4 years of Cooper. And personally I think Preston will develop his game and improve better than Cooper did, if for no other reason than Preston is still raw in the game considering his well documented late blooming.

So right now I will take Cooper but I suspect by the end of this season, I'll be saying Preston. Regardless, we are incredibly blessed to get these 2 players in a 10 year period. Mid-Majors go a half century without seeing guards like this.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 12/4/2020 2:33 PM
Donuts wrote:expand_more
It's way too close from a skill perspective, so I'm always taking height, athleticism, and versatility as the tiebreaker. This guy is getting picked first almost every time.

https://twitter.com/Treballjay11/status/13146679578769203...
Definitely agree with this. Cooper was a key part on some of the most fun times I've ever had watching sports, but what Preston brings to the table is a super rare skill set.

The reason he's going to end up getting a shot in the NBA is because he's got numbers like Coopers (and better on shooting), and elite athleticism and size. Those things matter.
Donuts
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Posted: 12/4/2020 3:12 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
DJ was a better defender than Jason is.
The numbers would show that Preston and Cooper were both pretty equal defensively as sophomores, and once again, Preston is 6'4" and more athletic. Cooper could be picked on in certain scenarios.
OU_Country
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Posted: 12/4/2020 4:23 PM
Donuts wrote:expand_more
DJ was a better defender than Jason is.
The numbers would show that Preston and Cooper were both pretty equal defensively as sophomores, and once again, Preston is 6'4" and more athletic. Cooper could be picked on in certain scenarios.
Preston is more athletic? Expand on that for me. I see Cooper as a little more athletic in terms of speed and quickness.
OU_Country
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Posted: 12/4/2020 4:25 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
LOVED BEAN..KID STAYED HIGH..MOTOR

SERIOUSLY HE WAS FUN
Yeah, 10 win seasons with Maurice Ndour and Tony Campbell on the roster are a blast.
The only highlight I remember of Bean was his last home game vs Miami. Literally the only one.
OU_Country
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Posted: 12/4/2020 4:26 PM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
Corey Reed played PG for Ohio in 117 career games and made 0 three pointers. How is that even possible?

Back to the question at hand, I think it's just too early to tell. Jay Preston still has (hopefully) a lot of basketball left to play in green and white. Let's see if he can guide this team to the dance, or at least I am before I judge him against guys whose careers are already over. Jay's trajectory is great right now, but he's barely halfway (again hopefully) done here. It will be hard to ever pick anybody over DJ because he did so much on the floor. Steals, rebounding, assists, scoring, and he did it on big stages in big moments. Except for that one night in Cleveland, but let's face it, that was an outlier for him.

I feel like Jaaron's time here gets a bad rap for the way it ended. He was here for only two years, but let's not kid ourselves, he was really good in those two years. He didn't have the all-around game that DJ had, but I think he was better athletically and was a great distributor. I think he could have been special his senior season here, but he made the decision he made and rode the pine at Michigan.

Talk to me in 2 years about where Preston deserves to be in regards to Simmons and Cooper.
The Corey Reed question is one that I'd love to know the answer to. Either he couldn't shoot it at all, or he was told not to pull the trigger. Either way, if he would have had any decent offensive game, he would have been pretty good.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 12/4/2020 5:22 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Corey Reed played PG for Ohio in 117 career games and made 0 three pointers. How is that even possible?

Back to the question at hand, I think it's just too early to tell. Jay Preston still has (hopefully) a lot of basketball left to play in green and white. Let's see if he can guide this team to the dance, or at least I am before I judge him against guys whose careers are already over. Jay's trajectory is great right now, but he's barely halfway (again hopefully) done here. It will be hard to ever pick anybody over DJ because he did so much on the floor. Steals, rebounding, assists, scoring, and he did it on big stages in big moments. Except for that one night in Cleveland, but let's face it, that was an outlier for him.

I feel like Jaaron's time here gets a bad rap for the way it ended. He was here for only two years, but let's not kid ourselves, he was really good in those two years. He didn't have the all-around game that DJ had, but I think he was better athletically and was a great distributor. I think he could have been special his senior season here, but he made the decision he made and rode the pine at Michigan.

Talk to me in 2 years about where Preston deserves to be in regards to Simmons and Cooper.
The Corey Reed question is one that I'd love to know the answer to. Either he couldn't shoot it at all, or he was told not to pull the trigger. Either way, if he would have had any decent offensive game, he would have been pretty good.
Corey could not shoot at all. Solid finisher around the rim, good distribution and protector of the ball was a lockdown defender.
Donuts
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Posted: 12/4/2020 5:40 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
DJ was a better defender than Jason is.
The numbers would show that Preston and Cooper were both pretty equal defensively as sophomores, and once again, Preston is 6'4" and more athletic. Cooper could be picked on in certain scenarios.
Preston is more athletic? Expand on that for me. I see Cooper as a little more athletic in terms of speed and quickness.
Athleticism also goes along with height, and Cooper could guard all of one position consistently. Preston can guard 1-3, and can probably hold his own against some 4s in the MAC. A shorter guy is going to look faster and quicker, but the results are what matters. Preston beats really good players off the dribble, and he's fast enough to get to the spots he wants to on the court.
El Gato Roberto
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Posted: 12/4/2020 7:00 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Paul Baron. Best point guard in 40 years in terms of getting the ball to all of the other four players especially the big men in position. Of course it helped that we had two great big men in Devereaux and Alexander.

+1
bobcat 2000
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Posted: 12/4/2020 10:53 PM
What about Armand basset
GroverBall
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Posted: 12/5/2020 12:49 AM
El Gato Roberto wrote:expand_more
Paul Baron. Best point guard in 40 years in terms of getting the ball to all of the other four players especially the big men in position. Of course it helped that we had two great big men in Devereaux and Alexander.

+1
Are either of you saying you'd take Baron over Cooper or Preston? I loved Baron's leadership and smarts but no way do I take him over Cooper or Preston. Considering everything these players bring to the court Baron's not anywhere near these guys.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 12/5/2020 8:35 AM
GroverBall wrote:expand_more
Paul Baron. Best point guard in 40 years in terms of getting the ball to all of the other four players especially the big men in position. Of course it helped that we had two great big men in Devereaux and Alexander.

+1
Are either of you saying you'd take Baron over Cooper or Preston? I loved Baron's leadership and smarts but no way do I take him over Cooper or Preston. Considering everything these players bring to the court Baron's not anywhere near these guys.
I think you have to consider who each point guard played with. With the guys Baron played with, he was a perfect fit. There wasn't a whole lot dribbling going on then like we have today with Cooper and Preston.
100%Cat
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Posted: 12/5/2020 8:36 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Corey Reed played PG for Ohio in 117 career games and made 0 three pointers. How is that even possible?

Back to the question at hand, I think it's just too early to tell. Jay Preston still has (hopefully) a lot of basketball left to play in green and white. Let's see if he can guide this team to the dance, or at least I am before I judge him against guys whose careers are already over. Jay's trajectory is great right now, but he's barely halfway (again hopefully) done here. It will be hard to ever pick anybody over DJ because he did so much on the floor. Steals, rebounding, assists, scoring, and he did it on big stages in big moments. Except for that one night in Cleveland, but let's face it, that was an outlier for him.

I feel like Jaaron's time here gets a bad rap for the way it ended. He was here for only two years, but let's not kid ourselves, he was really good in those two years. He didn't have the all-around game that DJ had, but I think he was better athletically and was a great distributor. I think he could have been special his senior season here, but he made the decision he made and rode the pine at Michigan.

Talk to me in 2 years about where Preston deserves to be in regards to Simmons and Cooper.

The Corey Reed question is one that I'd love to know the answer to. Either he couldn't shoot it at all, or he was told not to pull the trigger. Either way, if he would have had any decent offensive game, he would have been pretty good.
Corey could not shoot at all. Solid finisher around the rim, good distribution and protector of the ball was a lockdown defender.
I remember watching him play. He was a brick layer. He finished his career at Ohio an icy 0 for 15 from three, so at least he wasn’t chucking up a lot of them. Good self awareness.
Last Edited: 12/5/2020 8:37:27 AM by 100%Cat
El Gato Roberto
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Posted: 12/6/2020 12:42 PM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
Corey Reed played PG for Ohio in 117 career games and made 0 three pointers. How is that even possible?

Back to the question at hand, I think it's just too early to tell. Jay Preston still has (hopefully) a lot of basketball left to play in green and white. Let's see if he can guide this team to the dance, or at least I am before I judge him against guys whose careers are already over. Jay's trajectory is great right now, but he's barely halfway (again hopefully) done here. It will be hard to ever pick anybody over DJ because he did so much on the floor. Steals, rebounding, assists, scoring, and he did it on big stages in big moments. Except for that one night in Cleveland, but let's face it, that was an outlier for him.

I feel like Jaaron's time here gets a bad rap for the way it ended. He was here for only two years, but let's not kid ourselves, he was really good in those two years. He didn't have the all-around game that DJ had, but I think he was better athletically and was a great distributor. I think he could have been special his senior season here, but he made the decision he made and rode the pine at Michigan.

Talk to me in 2 years about where Preston deserves to be in regards to Simmons and Cooper.

The Corey Reed question is one that I'd love to know the answer to. Either he couldn't shoot it at all, or he was told not to pull the trigger. Either way, if he would have had any decent offensive game, he would have been pretty good.
Corey could not shoot at all. Solid finisher around the rim, good distribution and protector of the ball was a lockdown defender.
I remember watching him play. He was a brick layer. He finished his career at Ohio an icy 0 for 15 from three, so at least he wasn’t chucking up a lot of them. Good self awareness.
Then you have Zack Keikow...I’ll just leave that here...(runs out of room)
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 12/6/2020 9:17 PM
El Gato Roberto wrote:expand_more
Corey Reed played PG for Ohio in 117 career games and made 0 three pointers. How is that even possible?

Back to the question at hand, I think it's just too early to tell. Jay Preston still has (hopefully) a lot of basketball left to play in green and white. Let's see if he can guide this team to the dance, or at least I am before I judge him against guys whose careers are already over. Jay's trajectory is great right now, but he's barely halfway (again hopefully) done here. It will be hard to ever pick anybody over DJ because he did so much on the floor. Steals, rebounding, assists, scoring, and he did it on big stages in big moments. Except for that one night in Cleveland, but let's face it, that was an outlier for him.

I feel like Jaaron's time here gets a bad rap for the way it ended. He was here for only two years, but let's not kid ourselves, he was really good in those two years. He didn't have the all-around game that DJ had, but I think he was better athletically and was a great distributor. I think he could have been special his senior season here, but he made the decision he made and rode the pine at Michigan.

Talk to me in 2 years about where Preston deserves to be in regards to Simmons and Cooper.

The Corey Reed question is one that I'd love to know the answer to. Either he couldn't shoot it at all, or he was told not to pull the trigger. Either way, if he would have had any decent offensive game, he would have been pretty good.
Corey could not shoot at all. Solid finisher around the rim, good distribution and protector of the ball was a lockdown defender.
I remember watching him play. He was a brick layer. He finished his career at Ohio an icy 0 for 15 from three, so at least he wasn’t chucking up a lot of them. Good self awareness.
Then you have Zack Keikow...I’ll just leave that here...(runs out of room)
Corey Reed over Keikow any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Kinggeorge4
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Posted: 12/7/2020 10:20 AM
For me it will always be Whittaker as the best. Loved watching him play, then I would take Preston.
Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 12/7/2020 4:21 PM
It's DJ Cooper for me...and I'm not sure Preston could pass him in my book without significant postseason success. DJ seemed to be able to have that dagger mentality and willed the team to victories when they were needed. His stats are unparalleled in NCAA history.

I think Preston may be in the NBA. That alone would not change that argument either. I think DJ Cooper is a legend at OHIO for all that he did.
GoCats105
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Posted: 12/7/2020 5:19 PM
DJ also had that level of swag that I've not seen from an Ohio player in a long time. He knew he was good and better than most of the guys he went up against and played like it.
GroverBall
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Posted: 12/7/2020 6:28 PM
^^^^^^^
These last two posts are spot on.
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