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Bobcat1998
6/16/2025 9:31 AM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
I'm pretty please with the off-season thus far, but have a lot of questions about our shooting and spacing.


But Pavs outside shot has to come back and Hadaway has to be able to keep defenses honest stretching the floor.
Lets not forget our new pieces, it won't be all on Hadaway. Or JP.

MAOR KEY: Javan Simmons hit 33% from 3 last season to go along with 12 points and 7 boards at Toledo. I'm not putting him in any 3 point contests, but he *can step out. (Sheldon shot 28%, Hadaway shot 33%)

Breath: More of your true center with 7/7 last season at UNCG.

Portal Guards:

Dior Connors shot 40% from 3 last season for App State.

Carter Reese - Will be interesting to see where he fits in. 6'3" guard. Led Ohio Northern in scoring last season with 14.5 points. Shot 38% from 3.

Throw in Burris. Development of Elliot, Ayden.

Boals has never really been a fan of true freshman, but we got some good ones coming in as well.
I'm excited to see if any of the freshmen step up. Kelly seems physically ready and is athletic. Fisher was just solid. I saw him a few times last year. He is skinny but really calm under pressure. And Mosley seems like a nice sized post.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/16/2025 10:12 AM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
I'm pretty please with the off-season thus far, but have a lot of questions about our shooting and spacing.


But Pavs outside shot has to come back and Hadaway has to be able to keep defenses honest stretching the floor.
Lets not forget our new pieces, it won't be all on Hadaway. Or JP.

MAOR KEY: Javan Simmons hit 33% from 3 last season to go along with 12 points and 7 boards at Toledo. I'm not putting him in any 3 point contests, but he *can step out. (Sheldon shot 28%, Hadaway shot 33%)

Breath: More of your true center with 7/7 last season at UNCG.

Portal Guards:

Dior Connors shot 40% from 3 last season for App State.

Carter Reese - Will be interesting to see where he fits in. 6'3" guard. Led Ohio Northern in scoring last season with 14.5 points. Shot 38% from 3.

Throw in Burris. Development of Elliot, Ayden.

Boals has never really been a fan of true freshman, but we got some good ones coming in as well.
It would be great if Simmons added that to his game, but his 33% was on 6 attempts.
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M.D.W.S.T
6/16/2025 11:57 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I'm pretty please with the off-season thus far, but have a lot of questions about our shooting and spacing.


But Pavs outside shot has to come back and Hadaway has to be able to keep defenses honest stretching the floor.
Lets not forget our new pieces, it won't be all on Hadaway. Or JP.

MAOR KEY: Javan Simmons hit 33% from 3 last season to go along with 12 points and 7 boards at Toledo. I'm not putting him in any 3 point contests, but he *can step out. (Sheldon shot 28%, Hadaway shot 33%)

Breath: More of your true center with 7/7 last season at UNCG.

Portal Guards:

Dior Connors shot 40% from 3 last season for App State.

Carter Reese - Will be interesting to see where he fits in. 6'3" guard. Led Ohio Northern in scoring last season with 14.5 points. Shot 38% from 3.

Throw in Burris. Development of Elliot, Ayden.

Boals has never really been a fan of true freshman, but we got some good ones coming in as well.
It would be great if Simmons added that to his game, but his 33% was on 6 attempts.
So you're tellin me theres a chance...
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/16/2025 5:51 PM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
I'm pretty please with the off-season thus far, but have a lot of questions about our shooting and spacing.


But Pavs outside shot has to come back and Hadaway has to be able to keep defenses honest stretching the floor.
Lets not forget our new pieces, it won't be all on Hadaway. Or JP.

MAOR KEY: Javan Simmons hit 33% from 3 last season to go along with 12 points and 7 boards at Toledo. I'm not putting him in any 3 point contests, but he *can step out. (Sheldon shot 28%, Hadaway shot 33%)

Breath: More of your true center with 7/7 last season at UNCG.

Portal Guards:

Dior Connors shot 40% from 3 last season for App State.

Carter Reese - Will be interesting to see where he fits in. 6'3" guard. Led Ohio Northern in scoring last season with 14.5 points. Shot 38% from 3.

Throw in Burris. Development of Elliot, Ayden.

Boals has never really been a fan of true freshman, but we got some good ones coming in as well.
It would be great if Simmons added that to his game, but his 33% was on 6 attempts.
So you're tellin me theres a chance...
He took more in his first season. Still low volume. But I was surprised by the numbers, because against us he seemed like he had a soft touch. He is also a good free throw shooter. Usually free throw shooting projects to three point shooting reasonably well.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if part of Boals' pitch was that he'd let Simmons stretch his game. Id like to see him try, given our potential spacing challenges.
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OhioCatFan
6/17/2025 12:45 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
. . . Usually free throw shooting projects to three point shooting reasonably well.
You are much more of a basketball stat guy than I am, but I'm surprised at this statement. Anecdotally, it seems to me in my observations that I can remember a lot of good three-point shooters who were poor free-throw shooters, which always seem ironic to me. I'm curious what actually stats you might have on this, as you are probably right, and I'm probably wrong because I'm just going on anecdotal incidents based on my own observations as remembered.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/19/2025 6:31 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . Usually free throw shooting projects to three point shooting reasonably well.
You are much more of a basketball stat guy than I am, but I'm surprised at this statement. Anecdotally, it seems to me in my observations that I can remember a lot of good three-point shooters who were poor free-throw shooters, which always seem ironic to me. I'm curious what actually stats you might have on this, as you are probably right, and I'm probably wrong because I'm just going on anecdotal incidents based on my own observations as remembered.
It's a good question and honestly not one I've looked into a ton. I'm actually not sure how they correlate statistically. But a lot of scouts/coaches -- especially with young players -- think that good free throw shooting means a player can typically be coached into becoming a decent three point shooter. I suspect that the thinking is that if the touch and form is there, the range can be extended.

I didn't watch enough of Toledo to say in this case, but I was surprised to look at Simmons' numbers and see how few threes he took. Against us, he looked like he could shoot. But we made pretty much everybody look like a great shooter last year, so who knows.
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M.D.W.S.T
6/19/2025 9:49 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
But we made pretty much everybody look like a great shooter last year, so who knows.
lol ouch
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OhioCatFan
6/19/2025 10:59 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
. . . Usually free throw shooting projects to three point shooting reasonably well.
You are much more of a basketball stat guy than I am, but I'm surprised at this statement. Anecdotally, it seems to me in my observations that I can remember a lot of good three-point shooters who were poor free-throw shooters, which always seem ironic to me. I'm curious what actually stats you might have on this, as you are probably right, and I'm probably wrong because I'm just going on anecdotal incidents based on my own observations as remembered.
It's a good question and honestly not one I've looked into a ton. I'm actually not sure how they correlate statistically. But a lot of scouts/coaches -- especially with young players -- think that good free throw shooting means a player can typically be coached into becoming a decent three point shooter. I suspect that the thinking is that if the touch and form is there, the range can be extended.

I didn't watch enough of Toledo to say in this case, but I was surprised to look at Simmons' numbers and see how few threes he took. Against us, he looked like he could shoot. But we made pretty much everybody look like a great shooter last year, so who knows.
So, maybe good free-throw shooters tend to be good 3-point shooters, but not all three-point shooters are good foul shooters. I can remember games where good three-point guys are fouled in the act and go to the line and miss all three foul shots.
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OUs LONG Driver
6/19/2025 3:36 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . Usually free throw shooting projects to three point shooting reasonably well.
You are much more of a basketball stat guy than I am, but I'm surprised at this statement. Anecdotally, it seems to me in my observations that I can remember a lot of good three-point shooters who were poor free-throw shooters, which always seem ironic to me. I'm curious what actually stats you might have on this, as you are probably right, and I'm probably wrong because I'm just going on anecdotal incidents based on my own observations as remembered.
It's a good question and honestly not one I've looked into a ton. I'm actually not sure how they correlate statistically. But a lot of scouts/coaches -- especially with young players -- think that good free throw shooting means a player can typically be coached into becoming a decent three point shooter. I suspect that the thinking is that if the touch and form is there, the range can be extended.

I didn't watch enough of Toledo to say in this case, but I was surprised to look at Simmons' numbers and see how few threes he took. Against us, he looked like he could shoot. But we made pretty much everybody look like a great shooter last year, so who knows.
So, maybe good free-throw shooters tend to be good 3-point shooters, but not all three-point shooters are good foul shooters. I can remember games where good three-point guys are fouled in the act and go to the line and miss all three foul shots.
OCF, you're smarter than this. Taking a memory of a good 3P shooter missing 3 free throws in a row is not remotely the same thing as a good 3P shooter being a poor free throw shooter. We're talking about generalities and averages here. I saw Donovan Mitchell miss 3 free throws late in a Cavs game this year too, he shot 82% from the line on the year.

I'm sure there are examples of a good 3P Shooter, who was a poor FT shooter, but those are the exception not the rule.
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bobcatsquared
6/19/2025 4:48 PM
OUs LONG Driver wrote:expand_more
OCF, you're smarter than this.
Based on OCF's BA-leading 14,000-plus posts (despite a self-imposed exile of several months), I'm not sure I'm in agreement with how smart he is.
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OhioCatFan
6/19/2025 6:14 PM
OUs LONG Driver wrote:expand_more
. . . Usually free throw shooting projects to three point shooting reasonably well.
You are much more of a basketball stat guy than I am, but I'm surprised at this statement. Anecdotally, it seems to me in my observations that I can remember a lot of good three-point shooters who were poor free-throw shooters, which always seem ironic to me. I'm curious what actually stats you might have on this, as you are probably right, and I'm probably wrong because I'm just going on anecdotal incidents based on my own observations as remembered.
It's a good question and honestly not one I've looked into a ton. I'm actually not sure how they correlate statistically. But a lot of scouts/coaches -- especially with young players -- think that good free throw shooting means a player can typically be coached into becoming a decent three point shooter. I suspect that the thinking is that if the touch and form is there, the range can be extended.

I didn't watch enough of Toledo to say in this case, but I was surprised to look at Simmons' numbers and see how few threes he took. Against us, he looked like he could shoot. But we made pretty much everybody look like a great shooter last year, so who knows.
So, maybe good free-throw shooters tend to be good 3-point shooters, but not all three-point shooters are good foul shooters. I can remember games where good three-point guys are fouled in the act and go to the line and miss all three foul shots.
OCF, you're smarter than this. Taking a memory of a good 3P shooter missing 3 free throws in a row is not remotely the same thing as a good 3P shooter being a poor free throw shooter. We're talking about generalities and averages here. I saw Donovan Mitchell miss 3 free throws late in a Cavs game this year too, he shot 82% from the line on the year.

I'm sure there are examples of a good 3P Shooter, who was a poor FT shooter, but those are the exception not the rule.
I prefaced this by saying that observations were anecdotal, and that that if anyone had any real stats that I'd probably be proven wrong. I was making that last statement as way to try to reconcile BLSS' assertion that good foul shooters are usually good at three-point shooting or can be coached to be good three-point shooters. and my observation some good three point shooters are not that good at the line. So, you have stats on one guy who missed all three foul shots but was an 82 percent foul shooter on the season. That may be the rule and not the exception, I'd just like to see a broader stat on that, with all the data that gets feed into court-side computers these days that shouldn't be an impossible stat to come up with. The correlation between three-point shooting average and percentage at the line. You and BLSS may very well be correct, I'd just be interested in some actual number. I'm guessing the correlation, with proper weighting of the three-point shooting percentage, would be something like .590, but it could be much higher.
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Steve Ragan
6/20/2025 1:00 PM
OCF
I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for as far as stats but according to the ESPN All Conferences player stats page 2024-25, this is what I found for the top 50.

3pt attempts/game range 6.5--10.2
3pt made/game range .5--5.0
3pt % range 33.2--48.8%

FT attempts/game range .5--6.1
FT made/game range .5--5.0
FT % range 58.8--94.4 * only 2 players in top 50 below 72.2%
All but 4 players are listed as guards

I know this is a pretty small sample size but I feel that it would be representative of the data throughout all players. This would indicate that the vast majority of good 3pt shooters are also good FT shooters.
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OhioCatFan
6/20/2025 2:28 PM
Steve Ragan wrote:expand_more
OCF
I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for as far as stats but according to the ESPN All Conferences player stats page 2024-25, this is what I found for the top 50.

3pt attempts/game range 6.5--10.2
3pt made/game range .5--5.0
3pt % range 33.2--48.8%

FT attempts/game range .5--6.1
FT made/game range .5--5.0
FT % range 58.8--94.4 * only 2 players in top 50 below 72.2%
All but 4 players are listed as guards

I know this is a pretty small sample size but I feel that it would be representative of the data throughout all players. This would indicate that the vast majority of good 3pt shooters are also good FT shooters.
Well, it's a step in the right direction, but we need to look to see if most good foul shooters, say 85 percent and above, are good three-point shooters. My guess is that correlation going this direction is a lot less.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/20/2025 3:20 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Well, it's a step in the right direction, but we need to look to see if most good foul shooters, say 85 percent and above, are good three-point shooters. My guess is that correlation going this direction is a lot less.
At the NBA level this season, there were 32 players who shot free throws 85% or better.

Of those, there are 3 guys who shot below 30% from three and 12 who shot below 35%.

Worth noting though that not all of those guys are necessarily bad 3P shooters. Some just had off years relative to career rates.
Last Edited: 6/20/2025 3:20:40 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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OhioCatFan
6/21/2025 3:19 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Well, it's a step in the right direction, but we need to look to see if most good foul shooters, say 85 percent and above, are good three-point shooters. My guess is that correlation going this direction is a lot less.
At the NBA level this season, there were 32 players who shot free throws 85% or better.

Of those, there are 3 guys who shot below 30% from three and 12 who shot below 35%.

Worth noting though that not all of those guys are necessarily bad 3P shooters. Some just had off years relative to career rates.
Interesting. I wonder how that holds up at the college level. It may be that my observational bias is that I remember the anomalies more than the ones that fit the pattern. Just like when you took a test in college, convinced yourself that you flunked because all you could remember where the answers you knew you got wrong. Then the test is handed back and you got 95 percent right. The mind is a funny thing!
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/22/2025 7:30 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Well, it's a step in the right direction, but we need to look to see if most good foul shooters, say 85 percent and above, are good three-point shooters. My guess is that correlation going this direction is a lot less.
At the NBA level this season, there were 32 players who shot free throws 85% or better.

Of those, there are 3 guys who shot below 30% from three and 12 who shot below 35%.

Worth noting though that not all of those guys are necessarily bad 3P shooters. Some just had off years relative to career rates.
Interesting. I wonder how that holds up at the college level. It may be that my observational bias is that I remember the anomalies more than the ones that fit the pattern. Just like when you took a test in college, convinced yourself that you flunked because all you could remember where the answers you knew you got wrong. Then the test is handed back and you got 95 percent right. The mind is a funny thing!
Last season, there were 78 players who shot better than 85% from the free throw line. 6 shot below 30% from 3, 24 shot below 35%.
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OhioCatFan
6/22/2025 11:36 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Well, it's a step in the right direction, but we need to look to see if most good foul shooters, say 85 percent and above, are good three-point shooters. My guess is that correlation going this direction is a lot less.
At the NBA level this season, there were 32 players who shot free throws 85% or better.

Of those, there are 3 guys who shot below 30% from three and 12 who shot below 35%.

Worth noting though that not all of those guys are necessarily bad 3P shooters. Some just had off years relative to career rates.
Interesting. I wonder how that holds up at the college level. It may be that my observational bias is that I remember the anomalies more than the ones that fit the pattern. Just like when you took a test in college, convinced yourself that you flunked because all you could remember where the answers you knew you got wrong. Then the test is handed back and you got 95 percent right. The mind is a funny thing!
Last season, there were 78 players who shot better than 85% from the free throw line. 6 shot below 30% from 3, 24 shot below 35%.
So, 38 shot threes at above 35 percent, and 38/78 is .49, or 49 percent of the good foul shooters shot at an excellent rate from three. And, 72, or 92 percent of the good foul shooters shot threes at a good rate of of 30 percent or better. That seems to be a pretty strong correlation. My anecdotally generated hypothesis has failed to be confirmed. Thanks.
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