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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: OU Bobcats presented by Swanky’s
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giacomo
3/12/2021 8:10 AM
https://sports.yahoo.com/michigan-state-basketball-team-m...

More money for the big boys.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
3/12/2021 9:01 AM
Is this real? Did they take an onion story and run with it?
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BillyTheCat
3/12/2021 9:03 AM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Is this real? Did they take an onion story and run with it?
Sadly, this is real
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Pataskala
3/12/2021 10:24 AM
As Alfred from "Miracle on 34th Street" might say, "Yeah, there's a lot of bad isms floating around in this woild and one of the woist is commoicialism. Make a buck, make buck. Even in East Lansing it's the same. Don't care what college basketball stands for. Just make a buck, make a buck."
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giacomo
3/12/2021 10:40 AM
Maybe they see paying players will come sometime in the near future. This is a way to fund it.
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Andrew Ruck
3/12/2021 11:07 AM
Meh, no one will actually call them this. It will just be the nonsense uttered over the PA system at Breslin.
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JSF
3/12/2021 12:00 PM
Anything for the student-athletes.
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bobcatsquared
3/12/2021 12:11 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Meh, no one will actually call them this. It will just be the nonsense uttered over the PA system at Breslin.
Probably why I'm still calling the arena where the MAC tourney is taking place The Gund. I think Reghi also let that slip on at least one occasion yesterday.
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GraffZ06
3/12/2021 12:28 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Meh, no one will actually call them this. It will just be the nonsense uttered over the PA system at Breslin.
Probably why I'm still calling the arena where the MAC tourney is taking place The Gund. I think Reghi also let that slip on at least one occasion yesterday.
Yep, it will always be Gund Arena to me. I understood the Quicken Loans Arena era, calling it "The Q". But while it's now officially Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse I refuse to refer to it as "The Red Rocket".

C'mon sparky!

Sponsorships and branding are here for sure. Since most fans at worst loathe it and at best ignore it, how long until businesses feel it's not a good enough RoI?
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SBH
3/12/2021 12:51 PM
You do realize that the Gund brothers paid for the original naming rights, thus "The Gund" was a sponsorship too, right?
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Recovering Journalist
3/12/2021 1:28 PM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
Meh, no one will actually call them this. It will just be the nonsense uttered over the PA system at Breslin.
Probably why I'm still calling the arena where the MAC tourney is taking place The Gund. I think Reghi also let that slip on at least one occasion yesterday.
Yep, it will always be Gund Arena to me. I understood the Quicken Loans Arena era, calling it "The Q". But while it's now officially Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse I refuse to refer to it as "The Red Rocket".

C'mon sparky!

Sponsorships and branding are here for sure. Since most fans at worst loathe it and at best ignore it, how long until businesses feel it's not a good enough RoI?
Not sure how naming it after the oligarchs who bribed the city and got huge taxpayer windfalls for the venues is any better than a purely corporate name. People who are wistful about "The Jake" rarely stop to think that it was built with county money after he vowed to take the team out of town without a new stadium.
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SBH
3/12/2021 1:47 PM
True on the construction of Jacobs Field, but Dick Jacobs did pay a multi-million fee to put his name on the stadium. When the team was sold, Progressive stepped in to the tune of $62MM. My wife was involved in the latter deal. Lots of stories.
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Recovering Journalist
3/12/2021 2:23 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
True on the construction of Jacobs Field, but Dick Jacobs did pay a multi-million fee to put his name on the stadium. When the team was sold, Progressive stepped in to the tune of $62MM. My wife was involved in the latter deal. Lots of stories.
Yes, the owner of the team magnanimously paid the team $10 million to the team to slap his name on the $175 million stadium that was 48% paid for by new taxes. What a guy.
Last Edited: 3/12/2021 2:24:40 PM by Recovering Journalist
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JSF
3/12/2021 2:39 PM
The county owns the stadium, so he paid the Cuyahoga County. A publicly-owned stadium with 52% private funding feels like a good deal. I can't find lease terms other than it ends in 2023, but I know it's not one of those $1 a year situations.
Last Edited: 3/12/2021 2:55:11 PM by JSF
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Recovering Journalist
3/12/2021 2:57 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
The county owns the stadium, so he paid the Cuyahoga County. A publicly-owned stadium with 52% private funding feels like a good deal.
First of all, it's sad that nowadays that indeed constitutes a good deal. But even by today's standards, it sucks. That's because as the "owner" of the arena and ballpark, the county is on the hook for maintenance and upgrades. Gilbert is one of the richest men in the world yet one of the poorest cities in the nation just paid a pile for renovations to the arena, none of which were pressing. The ballpark had a bunch of "upgrades" done in 2017 too.

I get that this is the price to pay for having sports and that the teams would ditch the city in a second if they didn't get the money, but I don't have to like it or pretend that it's decent. It's disgusting.
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OhioCatFan
3/12/2021 3:32 PM
I wonder how the IRS will view the non-profit status of MSU in the future? This is treading on thin ice, IMHO.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
3/12/2021 4:35 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I wonder how the IRS will view the non-profit status of MSU in the future? This is treading on thin ice, IMHO.
I don't see what's different about this. There were ads everywhere in Michigan State's arena. The Nike swoosh appears all over their jerseys and gear. There are ads on their court.

Why would how the name Michigan State is presented in their arena change anything?
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JSF
3/12/2021 6:40 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
But even by today's standards, it sucks.
I'm gonna need some examples.
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OhioCatFan
3/12/2021 7:42 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I wonder how the IRS will view the non-profit status of MSU in the future? This is treading on thin ice, IMHO.
I don't see what's different about this. There were ads everywhere in Michigan State's arena. The Nike swoosh appears all over their jerseys and gear. There are ads on their court.

Why would how the name Michigan State is presented in their arena change anything?
Selling naming rights to a building is a little different than selling naming rights to a university sports team. These are the kinds of distinctions that lawyers and IRS wonks love to argue about. By calling their team "MSU Spartans Presented by Rocket Mortgage" are they saying that their team is in some way owned by Rocket Mortgage? It could be construed that way. I don't believe that the answer is a closed and shut case. At some point this will be adjudicated and we'll all know for sure.
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Pataskala
3/12/2021 7:54 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I wonder how the IRS will view the non-profit status of MSU in the future? This is treading on thin ice, IMHO.
I don't see what's different about this. There were ads everywhere in Michigan State's arena. The Nike swoosh appears all over their jerseys and gear. There are ads on their court.

Why would how the name Michigan State is presented in their arena change anything?
It's along the lines of selling naming rights to various venues, so there's probably not a big issue there. The more thorny issue is whether the players, coaches, trainers, etc. deserve a piece of the pie since the university is selling naming rights to the team itself, and they're all part of the team. Plus there might be state ethics law issues if Rocket does other types of business with MSU, such as mortgage lending, and the naming rights are somehow tied to a lending deal Rocket might have gotten with MSU. In Ohio, it always raises red flags when vendors make side deals with agencies.
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BillyTheCat
3/12/2021 11:21 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
You do realize that the Gund brothers paid for the original naming rights, thus "The Gund" was a sponsorship too, right?
You realize that facts and BA posters do not play well together.
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Recovering Journalist
3/13/2021 11:42 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
But even by today's standards, it sucks.
I'm gonna need some examples.
The county has to pay for any capital expense over $500,000 and the sin tax that covered the initial construction and has since been renewed doesn't even come close to fulfilling the voracious "needs" of the two teams. The county has had to pay tens of millions that it doesn't have to satiate the owners.

And because it's "owned" by the county, the properties are fully tax abated, costing an estimated $16 million a year in lost county revenue.

And an emphatic punctuation mark is that the baseball team, which is owned by a pauper by MLB standards in Paul Dolan, can and might still leave the city when their lease is up in 2023. That's right, after all the public funding and support they have no compelling reason to stick around after squeezing the county dry.
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JSF
3/13/2021 12:00 PM
I meant I wanted to see how the deal lined up with other teams. I can think of a few off the top of my head that are significantly worse deals. And did you know the Dolans are in the top 5 of net worth among MLB owners?

Cleveland needed an arena and needed one badly, though.
Last Edited: 3/13/2021 12:01:22 PM by JSF
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
3/13/2021 1:06 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Selling naming rights to a building is a little different than selling naming rights to a university sports team.
[/QUOTE]They didn't sell the naming rights to a university sports team. They brought on Rocket Mortgage as a presenting sponsor. The Michigan State Spartans are still called the Michigan State Spartans. At their arena, they'll now have a presenting sponsor.

[QUOTE=OhioCatFan]
These are the kinds of distinctions that lawyers and IRS wonks love to argue about. By calling their team "MSU Spartans Presented by Rocket Mortgage" are they saying that their team is in some way owned by Rocket Mortgage?
No. They are not saying the team is owned by Rocket Mortgage and no lawyer would ever argue that. Capital One is the presenting sponsor of the Rose Bowl. No lawyer now believes that the Rose Bowl is a subsidiary of Capital One.

It's another corporate logo amongst many dozen. There's no real distinction here.
Last Edited: 3/13/2021 1:10:57 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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OhioCatFan
3/13/2021 11:21 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Selling naming rights to a building is a little different than selling naming rights to a university sports team.
They didn't sell the naming rights to a university sports team. They brought on Rocket Mortgage as a presenting sponsor. The Michigan State Spartans are still called the Michigan State Spartans. At their arena, they'll now have a presenting sponsor.

These are the kinds of distinctions that lawyers and IRS wonks love to argue about. By calling their team "MSU Spartans Presented by Rocket Mortgage" are they saying that their team is in some way owned by Rocket Mortgage?
No. They are not saying the team is owned by Rocket Mortgage and no lawyer would ever argue that. Capital One is the presenting sponsor of the Rose Bowl. No lawyer now believes that the Rose Bowl is a subsidiary of Capital One.

It's another corporate logo amongst many dozen. There's no real distinction here.
I disagree with your points. It's more than a "presenting sponsor" the way its worded. We'll just have to see when this gets litigated, and it will sooner or later, what the courts say. I think it's a slippery slope and that it will have grave unintended consequences. You don't. We shall see. Now, I have more important things to do like finding out who OHIO will face in the NCAA tournament! ;-)
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