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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: The attack of the lower seeds
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giacomo
3/21/2021 12:12 PM
The lower seeds have won many more games this year than in previous years. Maybe COVID is the big equalizer, or is it something else?
Last Edited: 3/21/2021 1:15:04 PM by giacomo
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Pataskala
3/21/2021 1:29 PM
I think covid has played a part but only by limiting the number of OOC games teams played this year. Because there are fewer games for comparing teams and conferences, some teams may have been seeded too high while others might've been seeded too low. Teams like O$U, Purdue, Georgetown and Texas seemed to have been overrated while teams like UCLA, Oregon State and even Ohio might've been underrated.
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bobcatsquared
3/21/2021 1:45 PM
There are some o$u fans complaining that Oral Roberts was seeded too low and that their poor buckeyes should have had an easier first round opponent.
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bornacatfan
3/21/2021 1:58 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
There are some o$u fans complaining that Oral Roberts was seeded too low and that their poor buckeyes should have had an easier first round opponent.
Illini fans are bitching about Loyola being the same thing. If you want to be the best you got to show and .....play like you are the best.



Brutal. Loyola prevails with great execution and a good game plan. Moser is a good Xs Os guy. Game thread was littered with "refs", "outcoached" and "losing to a miserable MVC team". Happy to see the last post before the mods closed the game thread was "Stay classy, folks. This happens. It was a great year. We are not Ohio State fans."
Last Edited: 3/21/2021 2:24:38 PM by bornacatfan
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OUVan
3/21/2021 2:47 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Illini fans are bitching about Loyola being the same thing. If you want to be the best you got to show and .....play like you are the best.

While I agree with what you are saying, Loyola was the most underseeded team in the bracket.
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bornacatfan
3/21/2021 2:57 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Illini fans are bitching about Loyola being the same thing. If you want to be the best you got to show and .....play like you are the best.

While I agree with what you are saying, Loyola was the most underseeded team in the bracket.
Agree with you on that based on KenPom

Do you think without the interleague play we usually have the committee just kind of got backed into a corner with that one?
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GraffZ06
3/21/2021 3:03 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Illini fans are bitching about Loyola being the same thing. If you want to be the best you got to show and .....play like you are the best.

While I agree with what you are saying, Loyola was the most underseeded team in the bracket.
Agree with you on that based on KenPom

Do you think without the interleague play we usually have the committee just kind of got backed into a corner with that one?
No the committee screwed the pooch on that one all the way around.

Loyola was top 10 in both KenPom (#9) and NET (#10) and top 15 in RPI (#15). Not to mention they were ranked #17 by AP and #16 by Coaches.

No excuse for them to not have been a 3 or 4 seed except "MVC = mid-major so...ehh give em an 8".

They under-seeded St. Bonny (even though they lost) and VCU from A-10 by at least 2 spots as well.

#MidMajorLife
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JSF
3/21/2021 3:26 PM
Illinois got a tough draw, but you still gotta win. Few boo-hooed for Wichita when they got UK in the second round.

But, yeah, I think what we're seeing this year experience and continuity returning greater value. The big schools that churn freshmen didn't have much time together, whereas mids and lower majors who have rosters of juniors and seniors were better equipped to handle it. It would not surprise me at all to have a very low-seeded Final Four this year.
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GraffZ06
3/21/2021 3:29 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Illinois got a tough draw, but you still gotta win. Few boo-hooed for Wichita when they got UK in the second round.

But, yeah, I think what we're seeing this year experience and continuity returning greater value. The big schools that churn freshmen didn't have much time together, whereas mids and lower majors who have rosters of juniors and seniors were better equipped to handle it. It would not surprise me at all to have a very low-seeded Final Four this year.
Agree with all that.
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OhioCatFan
3/21/2021 3:53 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
. . .But, yeah, I think what we're seeing this year experience and continuity returning greater value. The big schools that churn freshmen didn't have much time together, whereas mids and lower majors who have rosters of juniors and seniors were better equipped to handle it. It would not surprise me at all to have a very low-seeded Final Four this year.
Interesting and probative analysis. Thanks for the insight.
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BillyTheCat
3/21/2021 4:59 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Illinois got a tough draw, but you still gotta win. Few boo-hooed for Wichita when they got UK in the second round.

But, yeah, I think what we're seeing this year experience and continuity returning greater value. The big schools that churn freshmen didn't have much time together, whereas mids and lower majors who have rosters of juniors and seniors were better equipped to handle it. It would not surprise me at all to have a very low-seeded Final Four this year.
+2 and that will continue.
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OUVan
3/21/2021 6:03 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
But, yeah, I think what we're seeing this year experience and continuity returning greater value. The big schools that churn freshmen didn't have much time together, whereas mids and lower majors who have rosters of juniors and seniors were better equipped to handle it. It would not surprise me at all to have a very low-seeded Final Four this year.
I think this hits the nail on the head. All the traditional powers that scoop up the one-and-dones are having horrible years by their standards.
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Maddog13
3/21/2021 6:28 PM
I am more cynical. I think the scandals involving athletic shoe companies, paid athletes, and Federal wire fraud charges have put a huge scare in some of the big programs and their staff. I agree that the pressure to recruit one and done athletes has not helped either. Likewise, the economic cost of the Pandemic on Alumni donations and gifts can't be helping either.
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giacomo
3/21/2021 6:53 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Illinois got a tough draw, but you still gotta win. Few boo-hooed for Wichita when they got UK in the second round.

But, yeah, I think what we're seeing this year experience and continuity returning greater value. The big schools that churn freshmen didn't have much time together, whereas mids and lower majors who have rosters of juniors and seniors were better equipped to handle it. It would not surprise me at all to have a very low-seeded Final Four this year.
This is a very big factor. Right on target!
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Pataskala
3/21/2021 10:09 PM
ORU just made the Sweet 16 as a 15 seed. Are they the first 15 to make the third round since the field went to 64?
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Victory
3/21/2021 10:16 PM
Florida Gulf Coast made it as a 15 about 7 years ago.
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OrlandoCat
3/21/2021 10:26 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
But, yeah, I think what we're seeing this year experience and continuity returning greater value. The big schools that churn freshmen didn't have much time together, whereas mids and lower majors who have rosters of juniors and seniors were better equipped to handle it. It would not surprise me at all to have a very low-seeded Final Four this year.
I think this hits the nail on the head. All the traditional powers that scoop up the one-and-dones are having horrible years by their standards.
Just to prove this point even further....this is the first NCAA tournament ever that won't have Kentucky, Duke, or UNC in the sweet 16.
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JSF
3/21/2021 11:20 PM
Only three what most would consider traditional powers left: Kansas, Villanova, and Syracuse.
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GraffZ06
3/22/2021 12:27 AM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
Just to prove this point even further....this is the first NCAA tournament ever that won't have Kentucky, Duke, or UNC in the sweet 16.
That's actually not true. There have been a handful of years that none of UNC, Duke or UK made the Sweet 16 -

1953
1954
1965
1974
1976
1979

That being said it's the first time since the tournament expanded to 64 teams in 1985.

40 teams qualified for the tournament the last time it happened, back in 1979.
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JSF
3/22/2021 12:45 AM
None of them made it to the second round either.
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100%Cat
3/22/2021 8:16 AM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
Illini fans are bitching about Loyola being the same thing. If you want to be the best you got to show and .....play like you are the best.

While I agree with what you are saying, Loyola was the most underseeded team in the bracket.
Agree with you on that based on KenPom

Do you think without the interleague play we usually have the committee just kind of got backed into a corner with that one?
No the committee screwed the pooch on that one all the way around.

Loyola was top 10 in both KenPom (#9) and NET (#10) and top 15 in RPI (#15). Not to mention they were ranked #17 by AP and #16 by Coaches.

No excuse for them to not have been a 3 or 4 seed except "MVC = mid-major so...ehh give em an 8".

They under-seeded St. Bonny (even though they lost) and VCU from A-10 by at least 2 spots as well.

#MidMajorLife
On ESPN Radio yesterday, I heard a guy say the top 8 in NET rankings were all 1-2 seeds. Loyola was #10...and got an 8 seed.
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Recovering Journalist
3/22/2021 8:55 AM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
Illini fans are bitching about Loyola being the same thing. If you want to be the best you got to show and .....play like you are the best.

While I agree with what you are saying, Loyola was the most underseeded team in the bracket.
Agree with you on that based on KenPom

Do you think without the interleague play we usually have the committee just kind of got backed into a corner with that one?
No the committee screwed the pooch on that one all the way around.

Loyola was top 10 in both KenPom (#9) and NET (#10) and top 15 in RPI (#15). Not to mention they were ranked #17 by AP and #16 by Coaches.

No excuse for them to not have been a 3 or 4 seed except "MVC = mid-major so...ehh give em an 8".

They under-seeded St. Bonny (even though they lost) and VCU from A-10 by at least 2 spots as well.

#MidMajorLife
On ESPN Radio yesterday, I heard a guy say the top 8 in NET rankings were all 1-2 seeds. Loyola was #10...and got an 8 seed.
The underseeding of quality mid-majors has been happening for decades. Back in the 90s when the MAC was regularly churning out NBA players and teams like Ball State, EMU and Fiami made runs, the MAC was always the same crappy 12+ seed no matter what any other ranking system said it should be. The moneyed conferences control the committee and the moneyed conferences want all the high seeds. The funny part is when that avarice bites them in the ass like it did to Illinois this year... and they complain about the rigged system that they rigged themselves. Hoist by their own petard.
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OUcats82
3/22/2021 9:08 AM
What I find really frustrating is your conference affiliation and related rankings will always seem to restrict how far you can ascend if you are not in a high-major conference.

Loyola is not too far removed from a Final Four run but that may as well be ancient history as I don't think it gave them any benefit this year while other schools have lived off of pedigree and past success for years.

While I give them all of the credit in the world for stepping up and knocking off their #1 seed, I fear that will only give the committee ammo to say "see, they were able to succeed regardless of seeding-isn't March Madness great?!"

At least in basketball worthy schools are given the opportunity to be at the table with a chance to compete.
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Recovering Journalist
3/22/2021 9:19 AM
OUcats82 wrote:expand_more
What I find really frustrating is your conference affiliation and related rankings will always seem to restrict how far you can ascend if you are not in a high-major conference.

Loyola is not too far removed from a Final Four run but that may as well be ancient history as I don't think it gave them any benefit this year while other schools have lived off of pedigree and past success for years.

While I give them all of the credit in the world for stepping up and knocking off their #1 seed, I fear that will only give the committee ammo to say "see, they were able to succeed regardless of seeding-isn't March Madness great?!"

At least in basketball worthy schools are given the opportunity to be at the table with a chance to compete.
Getting a seat at the table where the major conferences are gorging themselves is nearly impossible. Gonzaga's trip to top seeding is almost two decades long. They didn't even make the tournament until 1995, but they've been in every one since 1999, and they had to overcome bad seeding for many of those earlier trips. Gonzaga became Gonzaga through 20 years of excellence. That's nearly impossible for any mid-major and it's even harder for public school from a conference that's also fielding D1 football teams.
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giacomo
3/22/2021 10:56 AM
It’s true that the P5 get the benefit of the doubt on seeding every year. How can a mid major improve their standing? It’s almost impossible, as the scheduling is not fair. Play P5 games on the road, if you can get them. This is what should happen if the NCAA is serious about fairness: have a mid and P5 do a two year round robin home and away. The MAC and Big Ten. We play at OSU this year and Purdue comes to the Convo next year, something like that.
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