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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Will major schools present boals with an offer?
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CatsUp
3/23/2021 11:04 AM
LuckySparrow wrote:expand_more
At this point the question to us supporters becomes how bad do we want him? Does it mean we buy season tickets? Maybe, maybe not. Does it mean we donate to make sure his salary is high? Maybe, maybe not. We talk about what we have here and what we can be. The question has to come from a financial end at some point.

What it does mean is we start coming to the table and saying we're all in. And especially not doing it half-rear ended. Whether it means we push the athletic department to build an actual practice facility not controlled by any BS university department, set up a fund to ensure Boals and his staff are financially taken care of, or even attend home and road games. We have to step up, and in doing so be committed to going all in. It's about as ripe as an opportunity we're going to get in the reset of the college athletics world to either want a basketball program that can consistently challenge for Sweet 16 or we do what MAC programs do best, meddle in the middle, and have a comet come by once every 15 years (or in Toledo's case 40, or in BG's 53).
Well said. We should definitely put our money where our mouth is.
As I recall, not too many years ago, we had a group of alums who served as “regional ambassadors” (I forget the exact title) for athletics who were trying to cultivate support from mostly alums, but also others, who were disengaged from Ohio sports. I suspect they even targeted people who rooted for other teams (OSU-duh). Perhaps this would be an opportune time to consider such an effort again, either informally, or more formally (through the athletics department). Perhaps we have people on BA who served in that role who might offer their experiences and whether or not they thought they think it was worth it.
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TWT
3/23/2021 11:12 AM
His 850k buyout is up April 1st so he has to be resigned.
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OUVan
3/23/2021 11:15 AM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
My hunch is he only leaves for something very big. I wouldn't be surprised if the Stony Brook years opened his eyes. I am sure it wasn't very glamorous and he was living in an environment in which he was not accustomed. Thankfully, it led to the Ohio job and a deeper appreciation of our Alma mater. At Stony Brook, he learned a lot about the subtle ins and outs of being a head coach, on and off the court.

Ohio and the probably the Midwest is his comfort zone. Hopefully, he stays here forever, but I am guessing we have him for a few more years. He could build something special here if he stays. I know it sounds crazy, but with his recruiting expertise and coaching bona fides, dare I say a Midwest version of Gonzaga?
This all sounds reasonable but we have no idea if he or his family actually loved Long Island and the proximity to NYC or what his long term goals are. He obviously found the Ohio opportunity too good to pass up and has said it's his dream job but we also don't know if ultimately he wants to end up somewhere else after having fulfilled this goal. He also saw what happened to his coach, Larry Hunter. Hopefully he is successful enough that we have to worry about this a lot.
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rpbobcat
3/23/2021 11:16 AM
CatsUp wrote:expand_more
At this point the question to us supporters becomes how bad do we want him? Does it mean we buy season tickets? Maybe, maybe not. Does it mean we donate to make sure his salary is high? Maybe, maybe not. We talk about what we have here and what we can be. The question has to come from a financial end at some point.

What it does mean is we start coming to the table and saying we're all in. And especially not doing it half-rear ended. Whether it means we push the athletic department to build an actual practice facility not controlled by any BS university department, set up a fund to ensure Boals and his staff are financially taken care of, or even attend home and road games. We have to step up, and in doing so be committed to going all in. It's about as ripe as an opportunity we're going to get in the reset of the college athletics world to either want a basketball program that can consistently challenge for Sweet 16 or we do what MAC programs do best, meddle in the middle, and have a comet come by once every 15 years (or in Toledo's case 40, or in BG's 53).
Well said. We should definitely put our money where our mouth is.
As I recall, not too many years ago, we had a group of alums who served as “regional ambassadors” (I forget the exact title) for athletics who were trying to cultivate support from mostly alums, but also others, who were disengaged from Ohio sports. I suspect they even targeted people who rooted for other teams (OSU-duh). Perhaps this would be an opportune time to consider such an effort again, either informally, or more formally (through the athletics department). Perhaps we have people on BA who served in that role who might offer their experiences and whether or not they thought they think it was worth it.
I thought that was one of the things Varsity Ohio was going to explore.

Unfortunately they really haven't done much,since they were formed.
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BillyTheCat
3/23/2021 12:55 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
My hunch is he only leaves for something very big. I wouldn't be surprised if the Stony Brook years opened his eyes. I am sure it wasn't very glamorous and he was living in an environment in which he was not accustomed. Thankfully, it led to the Ohio job and a deeper appreciation of our Alma mater. At Stony Brook, he learned a lot about the subtle ins and outs of being a head coach, on and off the court.

Ohio and the probably the Midwest is his comfort zone. Hopefully, he stays here forever, but I am guessing we have him for a few more years. He could build something special here if he stays. I know it sounds crazy, but with his recruiting expertise and coaching bona fides, dare I say a Midwest version of Gonzaga?
This all sounds reasonable but we have no idea if he or his family actually loved Long Island and the proximity to NYC or what his long term goals are. He obviously found the Ohio opportunity too good to pass up and has said it's his dream job but we also don't know if ultimately he wants to end up somewhere else after having fulfilled this goal. He also saw what happened to his coach, Larry Hunter. Hopefully he is successful enough that we have to worry about this a lot.
He also doesn’t work for Tom Boeh and is treated considerably better by Julie than Tom ever treated Larry. Tom wanted out and felt he needed to hire a major program position in order to fill his resume. Of course we saw how his hires in major sports worked out.
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cbus cat fan
3/23/2021 5:12 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
My hunch is he only leaves for something very big. I wouldn't be surprised if the Stony Brook years opened his eyes. I am sure it wasn't very glamorous and he was living in an environment in which he was not accustomed. Thankfully, it led to the Ohio job and a deeper appreciation of our Alma mater. At Stony Brook, he learned a lot about the subtle ins and outs of being a head coach, on and off the court.
Yes, coastal living on Long Island is notorious for its lack of glamour. Everybody hates living on the beach within commuting distance of New York City. That's why they basically give houses away in the Hamptons.


I know it sounds crazy, but with his recruiting expertise and coaching bona fides, dare I say a Midwest version of Gonzaga?
Glad to see we're keeping things in perspective now that we've had a little bit of success under Boals.
Wow you learn something new everyday. Who knew, Stony Brook coaches living in the Hamptons hob knobbing with the Captains of Industry and The Titans of Wall Street, along with entertainers like Billy Joel? Maybe someone should tell the Stony Brook Alums that they are paying Big East and ACC salaries and getting very paltry results.

As for the part about being a Midwest version of Gonzaga? Can't a guy dream a little?
Last Edited: 3/23/2021 5:13:58 PM by cbus cat fan
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JSF
3/25/2021 11:03 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Is DePaul a step up?
Massive Step Up in prestige, stature, pay....you name it.
But a huge step back in job security and the ability to turn it into a better job down the line. If all you want is the payday then go for it.
No NCAA since 2004, no NIT since 2007, the absolute bottom of their conference, their (new) arena is 7 miles from campus... what's the appeal? Whatever cache the DePaul name had is long gone.
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Bobcat Love
3/26/2021 9:52 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Is DePaul a step up?
Massive Step Up in prestige, stature, pay....you name it.
But a huge step back in job security and the ability to turn it into a better job down the line. If all you want is the payday then go for it.
No NCAA since 2004, no NIT since 2007, the absolute bottom of their conference, their (new) arena is 7 miles from campus... what's the appeal? Whatever cache the DePaul name had is long gone.
Spoken like people who have never lived in Chicago....

Edit - No job security. They hired Dave Leitao twice.
Last Edited: 3/26/2021 9:53:16 AM by Bobcat Love
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SBH
3/26/2021 10:09 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=cbus cat fan]

He also doesn’t work for Tom Boeh and is treated considerably better by Julie than Tom ever treated Larry. Tom wanted out and felt he needed to hire a major program position in order to fill his resume. Of course we saw how his hires in major sports worked out.


Tom Boeh was DJT with thicker hair. Sorry...not a political statement, just personality wise.
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OU_Country
3/26/2021 10:19 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
At this point the question to us supporters becomes how bad do we want him? Does it mean we buy season tickets? Maybe, maybe not. Does it mean we donate to make sure his salary is high? Maybe, maybe not. We talk about what we have here and what we can be. The question has to come from a financial end at some point.

What it does mean is we start coming to the table and saying we're all in. And especially not doing it half-rear ended. Whether it means we push the athletic department to build an actual practice facility not controlled by any BS university department, set up a fund to ensure Boals and his staff are financially taken care of, or even attend home and road games. We have to step up, and in doing so be committed to going all in. It's about as ripe as an opportunity we're going to get in the reset of the college athletics world to either want a basketball program that can consistently challenge for Sweet 16 or we do what MAC programs do best, meddle in the middle, and have a comet come by once every 15 years (or in Toledo's case 40, or in BG's 53).
Well said. We should definitely put our money where our mouth is.
I've been in favor of a basketball practice facility for a while.

But the only way I see this happening is if they do something like the IPf,weight rooms and Academic Center.
Set up fund for the practice facility,and only the practice facility.

This way you're sure that what you donate to,can only be used for that purpose.
I know it's a damn fool idealistic crusade....

BUT, when IPF, Academic centers were created and funded, seems to be that funding a single building for athletics practice and academic improvements would have been the way to go as an efficient use of dollars.
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cc-cat
3/26/2021 12:36 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Is DePaul a step up?
Massive Step Up in prestige, stature, pay....you name it.
But a huge step back in job security and the ability to turn it into a better job down the line. If all you want is the payday then go for it.
No NCAA since 2004, no NIT since 2007, the absolute bottom of their conference, their (new) arena is 7 miles from campus... what's the appeal? Whatever cache the DePaul name had is long gone.
Spoken like people who have never lived in Chicago....

Edit - No job security. They hired Dave Leitao twice.
DePaul is now an after thought in Chicago - especially among prep players - not my words, but those of my best friend who is a DePail grad, hoops fan, and was born and raised in Chicago.

A couple of years old - but still insightful -

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/2...


And where it stands - according to Chicago press

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/3/15/22327434/depaul-ba...
Last Edited: 3/26/2021 1:02:56 PM by cc-cat
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BillyTheCat
3/26/2021 1:04 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=cbus cat fan]

He also doesn’t work for Tom Boeh and is treated considerably better by Julie than Tom ever treated Larry. Tom wanted out and felt he needed to hire a major program position in order to fill his resume. Of course we saw how his hires in major sports worked out.


Tom Boeh was DJT with thicker hair. Sorry...not a political statement, just personality wise.
I do not disagree
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BillyTheCat
3/26/2021 1:06 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
At this point the question to us supporters becomes how bad do we want him? Does it mean we buy season tickets? Maybe, maybe not. Does it mean we donate to make sure his salary is high? Maybe, maybe not. We talk about what we have here and what we can be. The question has to come from a financial end at some point.

What it does mean is we start coming to the table and saying we're all in. And especially not doing it half-rear ended. Whether it means we push the athletic department to build an actual practice facility not controlled by any BS university department, set up a fund to ensure Boals and his staff are financially taken care of, or even attend home and road games. We have to step up, and in doing so be committed to going all in. It's about as ripe as an opportunity we're going to get in the reset of the college athletics world to either want a basketball program that can consistently challenge for Sweet 16 or we do what MAC programs do best, meddle in the middle, and have a comet come by once every 15 years (or in Toledo's case 40, or in BG's 53).
Well said. We should definitely put our money where our mouth is.
I've been in favor of a basketball practice facility for a while.

But the only way I see this happening is if they do something like the IPf,weight rooms and Academic Center.
Set up fund for the practice facility,and only the practice facility.

This way you're sure that what you donate to,can only be used for that purpose.
I know it's a damn fool idealistic crusade....

BUT, when IPF, Academic centers were created and funded, seems to be that funding a single building for athletics practice and academic improvements would have been the way to go as an efficient use of dollars.
Actually, the IPF should have been built with Ping, especially since the College of Rec and Sport Sciences (or whatever it's called, controls and runs both).
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GroverBall
3/26/2021 5:52 PM
Campus Recreation (administrative not a college/academic unit) controls and runs Ping and Walter FH.
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BillyTheCat
3/26/2021 7:49 PM
GroverBall wrote:expand_more
Campus Recreation (administrative not a college/academic unit) controls and runs Ping and Walter FH.
Yes back in the day it was part of something else. You get my point though.
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giacomo
3/27/2021 12:58 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
At this point the question to us supporters becomes how bad do we want him? Does it mean we buy season tickets? Maybe, maybe not. Does it mean we donate to make sure his salary is high? Maybe, maybe not. We talk about what we have here and what we can be. The question has to come from a financial end at some point.

What it does mean is we start coming to the table and saying we're all in. And especially not doing it half-rear ended. Whether it means we push the athletic department to build an actual practice facility not controlled by any BS university department, set up a fund to ensure Boals and his staff are financially taken care of, or even attend home and road games. We have to step up, and in doing so be committed to going all in. It's about as ripe as an opportunity we're going to get in the reset of the college athletics world to either want a basketball program that can consistently challenge for Sweet 16 or we do what MAC programs do best, meddle in the middle, and have a comet come by once every 15 years (or in Toledo's case 40, or in BG's 53).
I knew this kind of thinking would emerge from our success. Just spend more money and we’re the next Gonzaga. It’s folly to think so. Open up your wallet if you want. I guess if several boosters want to ante up it’s their business, but the school is overpaying right now given the financial realities.
Last Edited: 3/27/2021 12:59:25 PM by giacomo
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TWT
3/27/2021 1:18 PM
The level of job in D1 basketball is predicated by pay. Gonzaga is a Big East level type job because it pays Big East money. The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.

Boals is an opportunity to bump this job up more by locking in an alum who has won in the tourney. I'm not saying a lot more right now but top of the MAC and at level that is mid range for an A10 program would be pretty good.

Also its a good time to start talking about the basketball practice facility again because that would help keep coach.
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bornacatfan
3/27/2021 2:57 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
but the school is overpaying right now given the financial realities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU
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cbus cat fan
3/28/2021 12:52 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
At this point the question to us supporters becomes how bad do we want him? Does it mean we buy season tickets? Maybe, maybe not. Does it mean we donate to make sure his salary is high? Maybe, maybe not. We talk about what we have here and what we can be. The question has to come from a financial end at some point.

What it does mean is we start coming to the table and saying we're all in. And especially not doing it half-rear ended. Whether it means we push the athletic department to build an actual practice facility not controlled by any BS university department, set up a fund to ensure Boals and his staff are financially taken care of, or even attend home and road games. We have to step up, and in doing so be committed to going all in. It's about as ripe as an opportunity we're going to get in the reset of the college athletics world to either want a basketball program that can consistently challenge for Sweet 16 or we do what MAC programs do best, meddle in the middle, and have a comet come by once every 15 years (or in Toledo's case 40, or in BG's 53).
I knew this kind of thinking would emerge from our success. Just spend more money and we’re the next Gonzaga. It’s folly to think so. Open up your wallet if you want. I guess if several boosters want to ante up it’s their business, but the school is overpaying right now given the financial realities.
Giacomo has a point, the spending on sports salaries and programs that as a whole lose money might seem hard to justify. However, the amount of publicity and good will the university gets from a successful sports season is something money just can't buy. I haven't seen this much Bobcat apparel being worn in the Columbus area since our miraculous 2012 run. A physician friend (not an alum) of mine reports that some of his colleagues who have children considering medical school seem to be asking more questions about our medical college in the last couple of weeks.

Let'e be honest if we want to look at waste or questionable spending, look no further than the salaries and and the sheer amount of administrative personnel who didn't exist some 20-40 years ago.

Also, there are various building projects that have question marks. What's with the medical school campus in Dublin (northwest of Columbus.) It seems they not only replaced windows in the relativley new structures, but also walls and roofs? There has been construction equipment there since last year, and considering how new the campus there is, one wonders what is happening and why?

Let's face it, higher education in our part of the country (especially because of the historic nature of the Northwest Territories and it's role in education) and the nation is general has been facing a crisis for years. Athletic spending is only a small part of the problem. The cost of college, bloated administrative salaries and budgets, 4 and 5 year programs that should much shorter in duration coupled with a demographic winter caused by plunging birth rates are the real problem staring us in the face; athletics only plays a small part. Keeping Coach Boals and his staff and the postiive results he is generating, would more than offset any increase he and his staff receive in pay.
Last Edited: 3/28/2021 12:58:30 PM by cbus cat fan
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bornacatfan
3/28/2021 1:19 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Keeping Coach Boals and his staff and the postiive results he is generating, would more than offset any increase he and his staff receive in pay.
I really like your whole discussion. OUCOM made a great move up there but I am bit dismayed that the bldg is already needing some repair or upgrade. WOuld be interesting to find out the backstory.

Good luck selling your line I left to Faculty and Admin. McDavis seemed to get it. Most won't. Dealing with Balls faculty and their movers and shakers they constantly comment on the Ohio Basketball paraphenalia hanging in my lobby and are sure to vent on College Athletics and how poor they are as tenured professors.... and then talk about how much goes into Athletics that they should have a piece of....


COmpelling articles

https://athleticdirectoru.com/articles/college-basketball... /
https://www.athleticdirectoru.com/articles/an-analysis-of...

really good chart in this one

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/6/11/17441968/ncaa-r...

https://www.three-man-weave.com/3mw/college-basketball-bu...

Numbers are fascinating. Good luck trying to sell the value of exposure at this point. Gonzaga and Butler have seen the value over the years with record apps and increased quality of candidate but I doubt most academics would agree with those numbers and would find a way to rationalize them.
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JSF
3/28/2021 2:10 PM
Club Hyatt wrote:expand_more
Gonzaga is a Big East level type job because it pays Big East money. The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.
[/QUOTE]
The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.


The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.


The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.


The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.


[quote]The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.


Gonzaga didn't grow because they threw a lot of money at the program and it got better, they punched far above their weight for years and THEN the money came. Spokane is in an area of a half million, we're in an area of 65k. Our circumstances are different and Gonzaga simply isn't a model to us for sustained growth.
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Jeff McKinney
3/28/2021 2:11 PM
In the glow of our mens basketball success, some fans are forgetting the utter ignorance about and hostility towards athletics at Ohio University--especially among faculty. Many of them have no clue at all about athletics.

People also seem to be understating the depth of Ohio University's budget crisis.

For mens basketball at Ohio, I'd say the most pressing budget problem is whether athletics will cover the cost of carrying a couple extra scholarships.

Mid major coaches have got to be wondering how many more salary cuts or "furloughs" they may be asked to take in the future. May predispose them to jump more quickly at a high major offer if its at a program where private donors foot the bill for a higher percentage of the athletic budget.

Bottom line? Mid major private donors, like us, have to step forward and increase giving.
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giacomo
3/28/2021 9:26 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
but the school is overpaying right now given the financial realities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU
Negative waves! Haha! Make your check payable to Ohio University athletics. Many good points here. One is the population of Athens county.
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TWT
3/28/2021 9:55 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Gonzaga is a Big East level type job because it pays Big East money. The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.
The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.


The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.


The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.


The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.


The success has to be there first to justify resigning a coach for more money.


Gonzaga didn't grow because they threw a lot of money at the program and it got better, they punched far above their weight for years and THEN the money came. Spokane is in an area of a half million, we're in an area of 65k. Our circumstances are different and Gonzaga simply isn't a model to us for sustained growth.
I'm on page with what you are saying here and the distinction.

For the MAC and peer conferences like the MVC and A10 what a coach is paid is a function of his resume as the head coach of that current team. Buffalo had Nate Oates at 600k after making the NCAAs. He moves on an they promote the assistant Jim Whitesell who the pay half, 300k.

Most of the MAC brings a coach in to start at the 300k-400k, enough to get a quality leader but not enough to break the bank if he fails. Then if he wins sign him for more years and higher pay.

Boals has found success for his program so he's at his reup phase, partially because he'll be outside of his buyout by this Friday. Then the next logical move by the athletic department is to come up with a strategy to get those practice courts built.

I could see 30% more for Boals but I agree it won't go as far as Gonzaga, only high enough to look decent relative to the MVC, A10 and MWC which I'd argue this job already does because the Schaus thought Ohio is the best basketball job in the MAC and new hires deserved a strong initial salary.

The paradigm Jeff is talking about may be how it plays out. The university could tell Boals they don't want to put the money towards a salary increase or and extend right now. Personally I'd like to see it happen but it may not work out that way.
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JSF
3/28/2021 11:16 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Is DePaul a step up?
Massive Step Up in prestige, stature, pay....you name it.
But a huge step back in job security and the ability to turn it into a better job down the line. If all you want is the payday then go for it.
No NCAA since 2004, no NIT since 2007, the absolute bottom of their conference, their (new) arena is 7 miles from campus... what's the appeal? Whatever cache the DePaul name had is long gone.
Spoken like people who have never lived in Chicago....

Edit - No job security. They hired Dave Leitao twice.
They have as many foreign players as they do players from Illinois, so DePaul players ain't really from there either.
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