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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Jason Carter Returns To Ohio
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Jeff McKinney
4/3/2021 2:58 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Yesterday: Turncoat! Hope you’re enjoying shooting 30% at Xavier! We don’t want people who don’t want to be here!

Today; This is awesome! Welcome home! He makes this team even more dangerous!
Another "take something person A said and compare it to something person B said to try to create hypocrisy"...a Bobcat Attack favorite. If you can find these conflicting thoughts from the same person, I'd love to see it.
Ruck, we like Composite Characters here at BA.
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JSF
4/3/2021 3:23 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Yesterday: Turncoat! Hope you’re enjoying shooting 30% at Xavier! We don’t want people who don’t want to be here!

Today; This is awesome! Welcome home! He makes this team even more dangerous!
Another "take something person A said and compare it to something person B said to try to create hypocrisy"...a Bobcat Attack favorite. If you can find these conflicting thoughts from the same person, I'd love to see it.
It’s almost like I was being silly.
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Jeff McKinney
4/3/2021 3:58 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Yesterday: Turncoat! Hope you’re enjoying shooting 30% at Xavier! We don’t want people who don’t want to be here!

Today; This is awesome! Welcome home! He makes this team even more dangerous!
Another "take something person A said and compare it to something person B said to try to create hypocrisy"...a Bobcat Attack favorite. If you can find these conflicting thoughts from the same person, I'd love to see it.
It’s almost like I was being silly.
Imagine that!
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allen
4/3/2021 7:41 PM
This is wonderful, welcome back Mr. Carter
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Taiwan BC
4/3/2021 8:59 PM
Well, I missed that one Bobcat Dragon... To borrow and modify a phrase used by OCF,(I think...) I need to check the batteries on my silly detector!
BTW, so happy to see so many posters from the past show back up again... Winning heals all wounds, right? Or something like that anyways.
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OhioCatFan
4/4/2021 12:25 AM
This is great news. I can hardly believe it. Thought that previous thread on this subject was a big cosmic joke. But, I guess the joke is on me for thinking that. Still seems to
me that even with Carter we need Flomo 2.0 to be a repeat NCAA team and one that can go deeper into the tournament.
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GraffZ06
4/4/2021 12:48 AM
oubobcatjohn wrote:expand_more
Carter has size to play center and forward.
Carter is listed at 6'8 220 (probably closer to 6'7 in reality). That's way too small for a center unless you're Jon Smith with 40 inch hops and a 7' wingspan IMO (and Jon was 6'9).

For comparison BVP is listed as 6'8 230 and he gets pushed around at the 5 and plays much better (to my eyes) at his more natural PF position.

Wilson is 6'8 250. Good size for a MAC center. If he were 6'10 he'd be at a P5.

All this to say, I still think Jason is a natural PF who might be able to slide to the 3 on offense (though I have concerns on defense) more easily than he could play the 5.

Problem is, same is true for BVP. Sorta like having 2 really good QBs. Department of redundancy department.

He'll get minutes. Boals will figure it out. Might take some time and tinkering to get right though.
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Jeff McKinney
4/4/2021 3:07 AM
I think Jason is a legit 6-8. The only starter taller than Jason was Freemantle at 6-9. I don't think teams think in terms of positions like we used to. Xavier considered him a big man, whether you want to call him a forward or center. Freemantle and Carter were both listed as forwards.

I don't think he and BVP are identical players. I think Jason is more of an inside defender.

But even if they were identical, most mid majors would kill to have those two on the floor at the same time. I don't see it as being analogous to having two similar QBs.
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OUVan
4/4/2021 8:34 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I don't think teams think in terms of positions like we used to.
My son is currently going through the recruiting process and we have heard this out of the mouths of most coaches. Versatility is coveted.
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FearLeon
4/4/2021 8:51 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
I don't think teams think in terms of positions like we used to.
My son is currently going through the recruiting process and we have heard this out of the mouths of most coaches. Versatility is coveted.
Good stuff....enjoy the recruiting process with your son. That is awesome.
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longtiimelurker
4/4/2021 11:37 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
I don't think teams think in terms of positions like we used to.
My son is currently going through the recruiting process and we have heard this out of the mouths of most coaches. Versatility is coveted.
True that, everybody needs a utility guy. The last 10 years have seen the game move to guys who can guard 1 to 5.
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GraffZ06
4/4/2021 1:43 PM
longtiimelurker wrote:expand_more
I don't think teams think in terms of positions like we used to.
My son is currently going through the recruiting process and we have heard this out of the mouths of most coaches. Versatility is coveted.
True that, everybody needs a utility guy. The last 10 years have seen the game move to guys who can guard 1 to 5.
Completely agree with all that. The Golden St Warriors paved the way for having 5 guys who can all handle the ball, drive, pass, shoot and defend all 5 positions. Versatility is indeed the goal. Of course, that's easier said than done when you're a mid-major as most of those guys get sucked up by the P5.

It's also why I still so desperately covet a long/athletic wing who can be a 3 and D guy - even after getting Carter. Somebody who can shoot and handle the ball from the perimeter on O, but be big and athletic enough to guard 1-5 (or at least 2-4) on D.

At our level you probably have some guards who can't go down low (Preston is the exception) or guys who are better on O than D (Roderick) or D than O (McDay/Brown) or bigs who just aren't versatile enough to step out and knock down shots (Wilson) or guard on the perimeter (Carter/BVP). It's not a knock on those guys it's just the reality. If that weren't the case they too would be playing for a P5 instead of the MAC.

But then you have to find the right mix/combination of pieces. All I'm saying is Boals is going to have to do some experimentation with lineups to find that optimal balance since Carter's natural position overlaps with BVP. Even though Carter is a fantastic all-MAC talent, adding his talent doesn't necessarily linearly correspond to adding to the teams productivity.

Sort of like a job. If it takes 1 person 2 hours to do something, it doesn't mean it will take 2 people 1 hour. It doesn't just scale linearly.
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OU_Country
4/6/2021 9:32 AM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
Whoa. I mean seeing him in Indy was one thing. Seeing him coming hOUme is another.

So - I'm glad to have him back. He's obviously got talent and experience. I worry a bit about lineups and minutes and how he fits and how much better it makes us. We need an athletic 3&D wing. He's not really that. We needed a rim protector. He's not that either. More talent is always good, but it will be up to Boals to figure out how best to mix and match now.

Sears NEEDS minutes. But he's blocked by JP.
Under Saul, Carter played the 4 and BVP the 5 - but now we have Wilson - and none of them are rim protectors.

My out of the box thinking as it stands for next year is
PG - Sears
SG - Preston
SF - Carter
PF - BVP
C - Wilson

Sears is our best on-ball defender with quickness and if he's only seeing 18-20 minutes a game for a 2nd year I think he bolts. Plus it frees up JP to work off the ball and post up or have a play run for him.

BVP as a point forward at the 4 is ideal. He's way too slow to guard the 3 and gets into foul trouble trying to guard bigger 5s.

Wilson is a perfect MAC center, even if he's undersized for NCAA tourney teams. Can't play him anywhere else.

That leaves Carter either coming off the bench, or maybe playing SF?. Do we honestly think a former all-MAC player and Xavier transfer comes here to play 15 minutes a game off the bench? I doubt it. He has the offensive game to play the 3 - though not NEARLY the outside threat of BRod/McDay - but can he guard the 3? I just don't know where you put him.

Moving BRod and McDay to the bench is fine with me, as long as they're still getting minutes and doing what they do best, which is guard (McDay) or hit the 3 ball (BRod).

If you want your best defensive unit I think you go
PG - Sears
SG - McDay
SF - ? (Would like to say Brown but he's too small for the 3 IMO)
PF - BVP
C - Wilson

If you want your best shooting lineup you go
PG - Preston
SG - McDay
SF - Roderick
PF - Carter
C - BVP

If you want your best offensive efficiency lineup you go
PG - Sears
SG - Preston
SF - Roderick
PF - BVP
C - Wilson

If you want your big lineup you go
PG - Preston
SG - Roderick
SF - Carter
PF - BVP
C - Wilson

Minutes breakdown:
BVP: 38-40
Preston: 32-34
Wilson: 32
Sears: 24-26
Carter: 22-24
Roderick: 22-24
McDay: 16-18
Brown: 4-8
Others?: 4-8

Edit to add: seeing the limited minutes available. Assuming nobody leaves (hopefully) and with the addition of Carter, you HAVE to think AJ Clayton is a redshirt candidate at this point don't you?
Agree with you on a lot of this. Sears needs to play a lot or he leaves. Also, without hesitation, he's one of the 3-4 best players on this team.

Also agree with the "3 and D" guy as the biggest "need" for this roster. The type of guy that can defend and guard most positions on the floor against most opponents. Actually, I'd say it's really the only need at this point.

I love Carter coming back for a few reasons, but one of them is the flexibility he creates. The opportunity to see peak Carter and BVP play together is really enticing to me. A healthy Carter would have been a big help on D against a team like Creighton. In my opinion, at this point the only kind of big this team needs to add, assuming everyone else stays, is almost a development guy behind Wilson. There aren't enough minutes with this bunch for someone else anyway if Carter, Wilson, Vander Plas all play significant minutes. That will make it hard to attract a 1 or 2 year player in my opinion.

The another reason for Jason: He gets to have Senior Day in The Convo, with a couple guys he started out with. To me, that's cool.
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OU_Country
4/6/2021 9:36 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I think Jason is a legit 6-8. The only starter taller than Jason was Freemantle at 6-9. I don't think teams think in terms of positions like we used to. Xavier considered him a big man, whether you want to call him a forward or center. Freemantle and Carter were both listed as forwards.

I don't think he and BVP are identical players. I think Jason is more of an inside defender.

But even if they were identical, most mid majors would kill to have those two on the floor at the same time. I don't see it as being analogous to having two similar QBs.
Agree -- because they can play together as the two bigs on the floor at the same time, and one of them is going to pull a big away from the lane, creating the potential for more space in the lane for guys like Sears and Preston to create problems. Definitely not two QBs in my mind.

I also think that Carter or Ben can defend the other team's 5 against some teams we'll play. Not all, but some.
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Bobcat1998
4/6/2021 10:21 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Whoa. I mean seeing him in Indy was one thing. Seeing him coming hOUme is another.

So - I'm glad to have him back. He's obviously got talent and experience. I worry a bit about lineups and minutes and how he fits and how much better it makes us. We need an athletic 3&D wing. He's not really that. We needed a rim protector. He's not that either. More talent is always good, but it will be up to Boals to figure out how best to mix and match now.

Sears NEEDS minutes. But he's blocked by JP.
Under Saul, Carter played the 4 and BVP the 5 - but now we have Wilson - and none of them are rim protectors.

My out of the box thinking as it stands for next year is
PG - Sears
SG - Preston
SF - Carter
PF - BVP
C - Wilson

Sears is our best on-ball defender with quickness and if he's only seeing 18-20 minutes a game for a 2nd year I think he bolts. Plus it frees up JP to work off the ball and post up or have a play run for him.

BVP as a point forward at the 4 is ideal. He's way too slow to guard the 3 and gets into foul trouble trying to guard bigger 5s.

Wilson is a perfect MAC center, even if he's undersized for NCAA tourney teams. Can't play him anywhere else.

That leaves Carter either coming off the bench, or maybe playing SF?. Do we honestly think a former all-MAC player and Xavier transfer comes here to play 15 minutes a game off the bench? I doubt it. He has the offensive game to play the 3 - though not NEARLY the outside threat of BRod/McDay - but can he guard the 3? I just don't know where you put him.

Moving BRod and McDay to the bench is fine with me, as long as they're still getting minutes and doing what they do best, which is guard (McDay) or hit the 3 ball (BRod).

If you want your best defensive unit I think you go
PG - Sears
SG - McDay
SF - ? (Would like to say Brown but he's too small for the 3 IMO)
PF - BVP
C - Wilson

If you want your best shooting lineup you go
PG - Preston
SG - McDay
SF - Roderick
PF - Carter
C - BVP

If you want your best offensive efficiency lineup you go
PG - Sears
SG - Preston
SF - Roderick
PF - BVP
C - Wilson

If you want your big lineup you go
PG - Preston
SG - Roderick
SF - Carter
PF - BVP
C - Wilson

Minutes breakdown:
BVP: 38-40
Preston: 32-34
Wilson: 32
Sears: 24-26
Carter: 22-24
Roderick: 22-24
McDay: 16-18
Brown: 4-8
Others?: 4-8

Edit to add: seeing the limited minutes available. Assuming nobody leaves (hopefully) and with the addition of Carter, you HAVE to think AJ Clayton is a redshirt candidate at this point don't you?
Agree with you on a lot of this. Sears needs to play a lot or he leaves. Also, without hesitation, he's one of the 3-4 best players on this team.

Also agree with the "3 and D" guy as the biggest "need" for this roster. The type of guy that can defend and guard most positions on the floor against most opponents. Actually, I'd say it's really the only need at this point.

I love Carter coming back for a few reasons, but one of them is the flexibility he creates. The opportunity to see peak Carter and BVP play together is really enticing to me. A healthy Carter would have been a big help on D against a team like Creighton. In my opinion, at this point the only kind of big this team needs to add, assuming everyone else stays, is almost a development guy behind Wilson. There aren't enough minutes with this bunch for someone else anyway if Carter, Wilson, Vander Plas all play significant minutes. That will make it hard to attract a 1 or 2 year player in my opinion.

The another reason for Jason: He gets to have Senior Day in The Convo, with a couple guys he started out with. To me, that's cool.
I believe (and it probably won't happen) that a fresh Jason Preston would be the best Jason Preston in terms of our success and his own success. The same with BVP and Wilson. For that reason I would love to see JP play no more than 32 to 34 minutes per game, BVP no more than 30 to 32 minutes per game and the same for DW3 which would give Sears more time as well as Lundo. I hate to see Lundo's time take the hardest hit because he stayed loyal to us after Saul was fired and he was a Saul/Cam Joyce recruit. I feel like Granger can still get some minutes as well.
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OUVan
4/6/2021 2:21 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
I don't think teams think in terms of positions like we used to.
My son is currently going through the recruiting process and we have heard this out of the mouths of most coaches. Versatility is coveted.
Good stuff....enjoy the recruiting process with your son. That is awesome.
Speaking of which, one of my son's ex-teammates (years ago), Zion Russell just signed with Northern Illinois. He played at Hargrave a couple of seasons ago so I'm guessing Tommy Freeman and Mark Sears know him even though he wasn't a post-grad there.
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cbus cat fan
4/16/2021 11:30 PM
The last time I was on the road (business and pleasure) Coach Boals was hired. Now with Jason coming back our program gets a major upgrade, and at the same time we all thought we were pretty stacked for next year in the first place. I can't begin to tell you the positive vibe we generated in mid-major circles. It is not the kind of thing that will generate buzz on ESPN, but we are certainly making a statement.

With the additional year of eligibility brought on by the pandemic, it will be interesting to see how we fare because of that additional year of eligibility. It could make a very big difference and be the catalyst for Coach Boals to bring the type of talent aboard that few felt was possible.
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OUVan
4/17/2021 1:05 AM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
What the heck is our rotation now?
It's actually a great question. There wasn't a single guy who is left on the roster who looked out of place last year. Last year's Freshmen went through an unprecedented adjustment hurdle but when pressed into service there wasn't one of them that looked out of place. Given a summer to work with the team who knows what's going to emerge.
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
4/17/2021 11:52 AM
We’re like a year ahead of where I thought/hoped Boals would have the rebuild at by this point.

Still much work to do, but it’s fallen in place mighty quick.
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longtiimelurker
4/17/2021 8:31 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
The last time I was on the road (business and pleasure) Coach Boals was hired. Now with Jason coming back our program gets a major upgrade, and at the same time we all thought we were pretty stacked for next year in the first place. I can't begin to tell you the positive vibe we generated in mid-major circles. It is not the kind of thing that will generate buzz on ESPN, but we are certainly making a statement.

With the additional year of eligibility brought on by the pandemic, it will be interesting to see how we fare because of that additional year of eligibility. It could make a very big difference and be the catalyst for Coach Boals to bring the type of talent aboard that few felt was possible.
Not happening in a vacuum though. Every other school is making additions and scouring the portal for players. The best thing I see is the chemistry and affinity the players have for each other. Boals leadership and connectedness with those players is a real positive when looking around the league. I don't see that dynamic with any of the MAC coaches presently in place.
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